Araton: Latest Knicks Failure Has Its Roots at the Top

[cgmw]

Donnie Walsh is the most undeserved martyr on this board and for the national media. He was good but jeezus.

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Walsh doesn't get credit for being good. He gets credit for being anti-Dolan. People praise Walsh because for a couple brief seasons the team made short-term sacrifices for smart longterm gains. He gets credit for purging Dolan's nauseating mistakes.

You can argue until your blue in the face about the merits of Donnie's tenure here. But the fact remains he deserves whatever folk hero status he gets simply by virtue of being mildly un-Dolan for a couple years.

He wouldn't have been able to do what he did without the blessing of Dolan so you can create whatever compartmentalized fiction about Dolan to make you feel better about yourself but you can't blame the head of the organization in one era and not the other.

Cult heroes are born from good fiction. The myth of Donnie:

Isiah was such a public disgrace that David Stern intervened, forcing Dolan to hire a real executive.

Walsh began his tenure with the leverage to do as he saw fit, purging bad contracts, selling Dolan the dream of LeBron 2010.

At the moment that mattered most, Dolan usurped Walsh and cost the team incalculable assets in the Carmelo deal.

As a result Walsh, being a normal human being with normal human dignity, allowed himself to be forced out.

Dolan called up Isiah who brought back Dolan's preferred coterie of yes-men, "superstar enablers," and corner cutters.

[cgmw]

All that said, Walsh is no saint. He screwed up quite a bit, IMO kowtowing to Dolan's need for flash (D'Antoni), publicity splash (Amar'e), and idiotic rank-and-file subservience (Carmelo negotiations).

[Clyde_Style]

We could say Walsh's mandate was to clear cap space for Lebron. Decisions were made as a result that might not normally be made, but that was the primary job he was brought here for.

He made other decisions, some not so good, like drafting Hill, but he was like a fixer as much as a GM, hired to clear cap space in two years. Technically, he wasn't the GM.

[Knicks_Fan2]

All that said, Walsh is no saint. He screwed up quite a bit, IMO kowtowing to Dolan's need for flash (D'Antoni), publicity splash (Amar'e), and idiotic rank-and-file subservience (Carmelo negotiations).

The best part was, after the TMAC trade, where Morey sexually molested Walsh et al., the Bulls merely gave up the 17th pick to move Hinrich's $10mm to open up space for two maxes:(

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... -kirk.html

[cgmw]

We could say Walsh's mandate was to clear cap space for Lebron. Decisions were made as a result that might not normally be made, but that was the primary job he was brought here for.

He made other decisions, some not so good, like drafting Hill, but he was like a fixer as much as a GM, hired to clear cap space in two years. Technically, he wasn't the GM.

In an ideal world, the Knicks have an owner who mandates competence and intelligence from his executives. IMO there was nothing competent or intelligent about the Amar'e contract, and Walsh knew it. It's part and parcel of working for MSG -- "win now," pay later.

Walsh, Grunny, and (yes) Dolan deserve credit for our 52 win season and AD title. But they also deserve blame for the reality of a team with virtually no chance at a championship.

[seren]

All that said, Walsh is no saint. He screwed up quite a bit, IMO kowtowing to Dolan's need for flash (D'Antoni), publicity splash (Amar'e), and idiotic rank-and-file subservience (Carmelo negotiations).

The best part was, after the TMAC trade, where Morey sexually molested Walsh et al., the Bulls merely gave up the 17th pick to move Hinrich's $10mm to open up space for two maxes:(

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... -kirk.html

The pick swap never happened and the pick we gave up was 16th pick in 2012. So we ended up unloading Hill and Jeffries' contracts for the price of a 16th pick. Given the fact that Hill and Jeffries were quite useless, I think Bulls paid a higher price. Hinrich at least could play.

[seren]

We could say Walsh's mandate was to clear cap space for Lebron. Decisions were made as a result that might not normally be made, but that was the primary job he was brought here for.

He made other decisions, some not so good, like drafting Hill, but he was like a fixer as much as a GM, hired to clear cap space in two years. Technically, he wasn't the GM.

He did fail on that front though. The biggest obstacle for 2010 plan was Curry's contract. He couldn't clear that out. Had he done that, we would have three max spots.

[cgmw]

All that said, Walsh is no saint. He screwed up quite a bit, IMO kowtowing to Dolan's need for flash (D'Antoni), publicity splash (Amar'e), and idiotic rank-and-file subservience (Carmelo negotiations).

The best part was, after the TMAC trade, where Morey sexually molested Walsh et al., the Bulls merely gave up the 17th pick to move Hinrich's $10mm to open up space for two maxes:(

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... -kirk.html

Walsh's record is spotted to say the least. Nevertheless, he's earned his cult status by virtue of nothing other than the sheer scope and magnitude of hatred for Isiah.

Given free reign to teambuild as he saw fit, I doubt Walsh signs Amar'e. I doubt he takes Daryl Morrey's moneyshot in the TMac deal, and certainly I doubt he over-commits to Carmelo when viable alternatives existed to get him for less.

Walsh has earned that presumption through a lifetime in basketball. IMO his biggest sin was knowingly selling his soul to Dolan (or arrogantly thinking he could operate freely).

[Manitoba]

Granger absent has arguably made the Pacers BETTER than they were last year in allowing everyone else to grow. Ultimately, this discussion is useless. It will lead nowhere but derailment and agreeing to disagreeing. We can't prove each other wrong here.

This is true.

The team never would have even known about Stephenson if not for a few things... Granger's injury. Losing Barbosa to free agency. And last season. George Hill was coming off the bench as a combo guard playing the #1 and #2. With him starting, and Barbosa/Granger gone, Stephenson had to come in and start.

It clearly allowed Paul George to grow. He was willing to concede to Danny Granger but with no Granger, he was able to become the alpha and become the go to guy.

George Hill and David West even showed they were able to take over games and hit clutch shots.

In the past, the shot was always Granger's down the stretch and with the game on the line. He thought he had to be the go to guy and everyone allowed that because he had been with the franchise forever and it was his team. Now, he'll be able to return and be able to let the game come to him. He was scoring 18-24 with ease as the #1 guy throughout his career and defenses keying in on him. It will be much easier for him to score with PG, Hill and West being big threats.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Granger come off the bench though because that's the Pacers biggest issue. For a lot of the season, they'd bring in the entire bench all at once. In the playoffs they've always left starters out on the floor with the bench unit because the bench is so bad. Granger has carried bad teams as the #1 in the past. He could be great coming off the bench with him being hands down the best player on the floor. He's not James Harden but he can provide a James Harden like spark if that's what Pacers choose to do.

Feel free to theorize all you want about player improvements. But the data shows that the Pacers' offensive rating was 6 points better last year when they had Granger; their defensive rating didn't budge. They were definitely stronger last year.

We dominated them then and probably would have whupped a weaker team even harder this year -- if Lin were still running pick n rolls with Tyson, or penetrating and dishing to an open Tyson, Melo, Novak, or Stat. Our offense would have been far more effective, and that would have allowed us to kick the Pacers' butts.

[TKF]

Well, these were our worries when we acquired him... is he a guy that you can build a contender around and what do we have left to build with? The recent piece with Phil Jackson in SI was fantastic - he was talking about the difference between coaching Michael and Kobe... obviously he spoke of both players very highly but one of his main praises of Jordan was how for a man of such competitiveness he was able to recognize when his shot was off and focus on other things to ignite the team - defense and facilitation. That made him so much more dangerous when he caught fire as he wouldn't have been expending himself horribly on the offense.

Paul George is not as skilled of an offensive player as Melo but he definitely has that skill moreso than Melo. He had no problem letting Stephenson take over and essentially being his decoy when Lance had the hot hand.

It's funny though, because Melo IS a GOOD passer... it's just not his mentality. I think Woodson really enables a lot of Melo's bad habits. It drives me crazy that he bought into Melo and Stat not working together to the point of not even playing them together before he had even tried anything. I forget what game it was - maybe against the Nets - where the Knicks blew the game open on a series of pretty post feeds from Melo into Stat. It was like SuperStarks feeding the post to mini-Ewing Both players were such a threat that it was very difficult to guard. He can also play both sides of the pick and roll as well.

If Melo is pressured to make quicker decisions - which should be his number one task in the offseason - then that combo can work. Likewise, Stat needs to get better at recognizing when he doesn't have the advantage and kicking it back out.

But if Woodson is just going to roll over and not play the two together and relegate Stat to some sort of bench weapon, well, more of the same. Last season, Woodson gave Melo the charge of getting in better condition... this offseason he should facilitate the two of them working on plays together even before camp... and Woodson himself needs to reinvent himself to better utilize this combination.

I do blame woodson, saomewhat, but he too is limited.. he is limited as a coach.... the problem with carmelo and amare is that both are not good passers and tend to occupy the same space on the floor... I think what is becoming a common theme is this..

carmelo needs help

carmelo needs to work on "x" this off season

carmelo needs to change his thinking

well after 10 seasons in the league you start to wonder about this guy, and maybe, just accurately assessing who he really is, will do fans and Gm's a world of good.. I think every year you try to build around him, the more the excuses will mount as will the disappointment, which is why I just can't buy into this guy or the way this team was poorly put together... when you perform poorly for most of your playoff career, you just can't keep saying he needs help.... carmelo shot what, 39% this playoffs and averaged just over 1 assist.. that is not good enough, and to continue to say he needs help is just not assessing the situation appropriately.... as you said, be a complete player.... this is where I don't completely blame carmelo, I just don't think that is him, mentally or physically.... thats fine, but again, you need to accurately assess the player and situation.... so that you don't overpay and continually put him in a position he just isn't suited for... the other part of the problem is that carmelo is a legend in his own mind... that too holds him back....

Well, I'll put it like this... Melo isn't likely to change, and Wood&son (what 2010 calls Woody and JR) isn't likely to change, and Amar'e's health is uncertain. Tyson will be healthier without an Olympics. Shumpert will get better. God, that kid is great, though limited.

But I have muuuuuch more confidence in something going right within this core group of guys than I do in Dolan changing.

Dolan's "Reach For the Stars" program absolutely works. Look at this board and how they cherish it. Heck, even the Chris Paul rumor is enough to perk up the majority. He's not brain dead and winning still isn't integral to the strategy. This core isn't going anywhere and in 2015 we will resign Melo for 20 or so million per with no other bidder even close.

So, it is what it is. And I root for all of this much better than I used to. This year was even kinda fun if you know the ride you're in for.

I can respect that capn... I just don't like the ride, and I see a bumpy ride next year as the east gets better and we have very little means of improving... not very encouraging... but to each his own, whatever gets you by rooting for your team... I know, I have been there, just have grown less patient...

[mpharris36]

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Studying tape of guys like Garnett, Duncan, James Worthy, even Pierce to an extent Is where I want him to go. Worthy might be the best. Not so much their overall games but how they facilitate. How quick they make their decisions after getting the ball. That's where I want to see Melo go.

I would add Dirk to that list as well. Although he was shooting the ball very well, what made him virtually unguardable in the 2011 playoffs was his ability to read the defense and make quick (and correct) decisions with the ball.

Of course, that Mavs team was also very deep, and had a great combination of veteran leadership, defense, and excellent coaching. In certain ways we were sort of haphazardly built that way this off-season, but unfortunately our vets were too old, our defense too inconsistent, and our coaching subpar.