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Post game: No Papa Johns

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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#181 » by Greenie » Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:53 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:
Red Vines wrote:The transition to Frank needs to start now or make a roster move because Jack is fading fast. You can see he's lacking energy on both ends, he's just wearing down. If they think he can start the rest of the year they're crazy, he won't last.

Frank was supposed to start from jump.


A rookie PG was supposed to start from the jump? Rarely. And I doubt Frank was. Hence the Knicks looking all over for vet PG help.

I think the safe assumption was if Frank showed he was ready, he'd get into the starting lineup mid year. With Jeff, who knows, but it's early.



Yes. The alternative was/is Jack and Sessions.

I’ll rock with Frank fuqing up over this ****.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#182 » by knicksNOTslick » Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:57 pm

ITGM wrote:Frank Ntilikina is the most overrated Knick player since Michael Sweetney.

So a 19 year old rookie is the most overrated?

We've had a lot of overrated players since Michael Sweetney. I still remember when Eddy Curry had that one season where he was putting up like 19 points 7 boards a game, throwing up empty stats as he was hurting our team more than helping, and a few people on this board thought that he should've been an All Star. Now THAT is overrating.

Don't get me started on Crawford.

I think Ntilikina is rated just right. I have a wait and see approach.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#183 » by mpharris36 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:57 pm

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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#184 » by Greenie » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:00 pm

mpharris36 wrote:Image

Write down your own name due to your views on this coach we have.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#185 » by mpharris36 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:04 pm

Greenie wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:Image

Write down your own name due to your views on this coach we have.


i have never had long term views on this coach, ive always thought he was a place holder until blatt or someone else comes in.

Horny started the year ok, which I acknowledged, now he got a taste of winning and throwing out all our plans of development. He is now turning into a coach that will be fired at the end of the year.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#186 » by knicksNOTslick » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:09 pm

knuckles862 wrote:I understand frank is young and has potential so I’m not gonna complain when he plays bad until his 3rd year but some of you guys gotta stop acting like his potential will automatically mean he will become a star like wait and see I swear :noway:

Who said he's gonna become a star?

A lot of posters here see him as a glue guy. A great 3&D guy at PG. If he becomes a star, that would be great but I wouldn't be mad if he doesn't. PGs take time to develop.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#187 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:10 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:Why are we so concerned that a 19 year old rookie PG is having some trouble with fouls?

Didn't KP have the same problem for 2 years?


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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#188 » by Bill Pidto » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:18 pm

I am very, very alarmed.

Anyone else?
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#189 » by Bill Pidto » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:20 pm

dakomish23 wrote:I see the same group of people are getting emotional and defensive. You would think they would stop given that their source of contempt is no longer with this team.


I think some people are just simply alarmed, and rightfully so.

This is all extremely alarming.

Sound the alarm.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#190 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:23 pm

Bill Pidto wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:I see the same group of people are getting emotional and defensive. You would think they would stop given that their source of contempt is no longer with this team.


I think some people are just simply alarmed, and rightfully so.

This is all extremely alarming.

Sound the alarm.


Nope
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#191 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:25 pm

Reign23 wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
Reign23 wrote:bruh just finished the game...

positives: Ronny, Willy and Dot played well.

negatives: everything else. especially frank.. oh my he doesn't really look good after all. :/


Frenchie will have his good days and bad days like all rookies.


yeah I know. but the last few games I've seen worry me a little bit :oops:


If healthy, I could see him finishing off the season strong as he learns how to adjust to the NBA. Still just a kid.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#192 » by NowWHYcee7 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:26 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
NowWHYcee7 wrote:Why are we so concerned that a 19 year old rookie PG is having some trouble with fouls?

Didn't KP have the same problem for 2 years?


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LOL true.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#193 » by j4remi » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:26 pm

Repeat after me, you cannot preach defense for 20 games and roll out a starting frontcourt of Beasley and Kanter while expecting to be taken serious. In the first game of this nightmarish back to back, I mentioned that Beas was getting confused and dirty looks from teammates. In this one, Kanter picked up his 1st foul of the game in the third quarter and had words for Beasley because dude being out of position led to it. So part one of this is Beasley and floor positioning are allergic to each other. Two is Kanter as sole rim protector with no fouls mid-third does not bode well for the team. No KP, no THJ and some really bizarre line-ups combined to make this near unwatchable. There was a chunk of second quarter minutes devoted to Willy/Kanter as a 4/5 tandem. We got killed inside all night, Ramon Sessions again found floor time and Courtney Lee who played an absurd amount of minutes the night before WITH a respiratory infection spent the game passing to Pacers so I'm guessing he had a fever also. This was ugly, so if you didn't watch...understandable. Here's some recap:

Jack: Jarrett Jack switches a lot, it saves him the trouble of actually guarding a PG attack. But what happens when he switches onto a PF that attacks? He still gets blown by. I'm not gonna list his numbers or mention his offensive play after a night where his defense was that bad. How about his assignment? 10,10 and 4 plus 3 steals and 2 blocks for Collison. You can't hide this guy without a shotblocking presence inside and good defensive communication.

Beas: 13 pts and 5 boards in 14 minutes isn't supposed to be so ugly. But he managed 10 shot attempts, 0 assists and 5 TO's in under 15 minutes to go along with an astounding lack of defensive fundamentals. There are times where he hustles hard enough to make up for poor defensive decisions (not knowing when to switch, tunnel vision on one offensive player, standing too far away from his man, etc.) but after 3 starts, it's glaring how bad he is for everybody. Not just himself but everybody. If he starts again, I might skip the next recap because I'll break my remote or tv watching this dude and Jarrett Jack switching.

Lee: 8 pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs on 4/7 shooting. He threw some UGLY passes and looked like he never recovered from the night before where he was ready to collapse at the end. Am I gonna hammer a sick dude who played over 35 minutes the night before but still showed up to play for his undermanned team? Nah. But he looked hurt out there and surrounded by subpar defenders, having him labor meant we were REALLY screwed.

Kanter: 7 and 6 on 3/8 in 19 mins. Lack of efficiency is gonna happen when the defense doesn't have to worry about anybody else so his 1 ast to 3 TO's and lower output makes sense. Defensively, we know he's not a world-beater and with so many defenders getting blown by Kanter's footspeed wasn't enough to challenge guys consistently. For as much as I liked him calling out Beasley who had been killing everybody, that play seemed like one where the awareness was there but his feet weren't fast enough to get the stop.

Dotson: Dotson's defense stood amid the muddle of confusion that followed the rest of the starters. At times he forced TO's from the awkward yet inexplicably effective ball handling of Lance Stephenson. I haven't had a chance to do this for a while, so shout out to the dude's rebounding instincts and effort. On offense he was pretty timid for a lot of the game but when he was out there with the second unit and the youth crew, he started to assert himself and show something. Talk about impacting areas of the game; 9 pts, 7 boards, an assist, 2 steals and a block and he knocked down two trey's out of 5 attempts (one assisted by Noah who hyped Dot up for it which was cool even if we were down 30). Minutes for this guy are gonna be good, we'll see how much comfort and confidence he can develop with different crews. I'd like the starters to look for him a bit, a little encouragement from Noah went a long way later on. That's what vets need to be doing.

Frank: Frank went 2/11 in 27 minutes with no three pointers in 3 attempts. He put up a pedestrian 7 pts, 2 asts and 1 board; So why was I happy? Well for one, he was a pace pusher. Even on some makes, he got the ball and shot up court to try and make something happen with the likes of Lance Thomas and Ron Baker as running mates. For two, you could see him toying with speed changes. He would sprint up court and as the first man across half approached, shoulders would shoot back for a slowdown and then he'd press turbo again. This got his feet into the paint repeatedly and the key word is repeatedly. He missed lay-ups, his jumper was flat, his best passes were wasted on poor offensive partners...but the aggression was a step up from what we've seen before for the second straight game. The shot will fall some nights, the finishing inside requires repetitions but I'll take the ugly stat-line because what we saw on the court is what many have been asking for from the kid. Be aggressive, find your shot and become a dual threat to both pass or attack. It's coming...

Doug: Nice bounceback from a disappointing one the night before as a scorer. Not so nice on boards or playmaking and forgettable on defense. 5/8 from the field for 12 pts, 2 asts, 1 board. He got starter's minutes and wasn't bad...not good but certainly not bad. That sets him apart from Beasley and Lance who were both pretty bad.

KOQ: I wanna point this out before I get into the other bigs...Kyle's been stepping his energy up recently and it showed in this game with 4 points, 6 boards and an assist in just 8 minutes. He was 2/6 which hurts the aesthetic a bit but he was doing good things out there. The blowout meant that his time got clipped HARD right as he's started building momentum and as much as I love seeing Willy get minutes or Noah leading things...I felt for KOQ who was getting big minutes while looking unenthusiastic only to see single digit play on his third straight game of "I'm trying again coach, look."

Willy: Reminded everybody of the good and the bad of a Willy Hernangomez performance. 14 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists on 7/10 from the field (7/9 not counting a last second three pointer) all tallied in just 17 minutes. Dude is fun to watch work offensively with superior vision to the average big and a legit collection of post moves both finesse and power. On defense...ghastly. To the kid's credit, he seems to settle in on that end the longer he's out there. It's like the game starts off at hyperspeed to him and slows down to just "too fast" by the time he's had 10 minutes of adjustment. Kanter has slow feet but with pressure from everybody, he usually finds himself in the right place or trying to do the right thing at minimum. Willy hasn't shown that since late last season. There's a caveat though, a chunk of Willy's time was spent at the 4 with Kanter in the middle and it was ugly. No excuse for the poor D, but starting out of position and in an awkward front court pairing definitely doesn't help a guy get in a rhythm on either end.

Noah:
3 pts, 3 asts, 4 boards in 8 mins...that's pretty impressive tbh. He looked more fluid handling the ball than he ever did last year and his passing ability showed a bit. The really likeable part though was his energy. The team was down like a 64 seed in the NCAA tournament but Noah was out there working and yelling encouragement when Dotson hit a three. He saw Dotson hit and fed the man again. That sort of little stuff is cool to see with the young guys and I don't think even our PG's have so actively sought to get a youngster going.

Lance: 2/7 4 pts, 1 assist, 1 steal and the low output isn't for lack of touches. He got too many opportunities to impact the offense in his 17 minutes...it's just not the role for him. Defensively, things were so ugly that for most of the game he couldn't change much.

Ramon: If we want a short, poor defending, slashing PG whose instincts are better taking the shot than passing...might as well try Trey Burke out since he's younger and has some athleticism left. Sessions put up 5 and 2 in 14 minutes where he jacked 8 shots up surrounded by young guys that we want to see work (I'm staring at the Noah section and wondering why our old man PG's can't get the memo). Willy was the only one with chemistry with Ramon and that makes sense because it was the pick man. Don't let his +/- fool you, he was not fun to watch out there. Also, he got fourth quarter minutes again while we could have kept giving a lottery developmental piece extra burn. Jeff's gonna make us hate him when it's not dude's fault...well the shooting is but Jeff's not stopping him.

Baker: 22 minutes, 9 pts, 4 assists on 2/3 from the field (all three's). He passed up way some WIDE OPEN chances and not for better shots. But he chases on defense and if the second guard can handle the ball, he's at least not going jack up nonsense. Honestly, I'm so tired of Jarrett Jack and Ramon Sessions (I know only two games with him back but that's enough) that I'm now supporting any movement to bench the old dudes and let Frank/Baker learn by fire to deal with on-ball pressure. Things will likely get uglier before they get better but we'll at least be TRYING to have the defensive identity that faded with our lead in Cleveland and hasn't been back.

Jeff: I've scratched my head at some of his decisions and last night was no different. He Pair Beasley with Kanter, then in the second quarter paired Willy with Kanter; what did Enes Kanter do you Jeff? Frank's best passes went to Lance, Ron and Sessions...yikes. Kid's assist totals might look different with players that actually know how to put the ball in the hoop nearby. But at least that second situation has forced Frank to shoot...and shoot....and shoot. So maybe it's a mindgame. The Kanter pairings with our worst defensive players though...not forgivable. I don't care how much offense we're lacking, you erase our entire "defense matters" identity which was already teetering on edge with those front court situations.

Random: I've never seen someone throw more no-look passes into the stands than Sabonis. It's hilarious and bizarre.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#194 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:27 pm

Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:Frank was supposed to start from jump.


A rookie PG was supposed to start from the jump? Rarely. And I doubt Frank was. Hence the Knicks looking all over for vet PG help.

I think the safe assumption was if Frank showed he was ready, he'd get into the starting lineup mid year. With Jeff, who knows, but it's early.



Yes. The alternative was/is Jack and Sessions.

I’ll rock with Frank fuqing up over this ****.


Well, me too. But most coaches just don't hand the reigns over to a rookie. Sure Ball starts, but Fox doesn't and he's better than Ball.

More my point that it's not unusual. I'd rather see Frank start due to roster construction though. And he might as well get reps getting used to KP, THJr and maybe, Kanter.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#195 » by dakomish23 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:33 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
A rookie PG was supposed to start from the jump? Rarely. And I doubt Frank was. Hence the Knicks looking all over for vet PG help.

I think the safe assumption was if Frank showed he was ready, he'd get into the starting lineup mid year. With Jeff, who knows, but it's early.



Yes. The alternative was/is Jack and Sessions.

I’ll rock with Frank fuqing up over this ****.


Well, me too. But most coaches just don't hand the reigns over to a rookie. Sure Ball starts, but Fox doesn't and he's better than Ball.

More my point that it's not unusual. I'd rather see Frank start due to roster construction though. And he might as well get reps getting used to KP, THJr and maybe, Kanter.


Fox also has a starting caliber guy (in theory) in front of him. Jack has resembled that at times, more than anyone could of have expected. But if he starts slowing down, we should start Frank.

Growing pains versus geriatric pains.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#196 » by GONYK » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:34 pm

Spoiler:
j4remi wrote:Repeat after me, you cannot preach defense for 20 games and roll out a starting frontcourt of Beasley and Kanter while expecting to be taken serious. In the first game of this nightmarish back to back, I mentioned that Beas was getting confused and dirty looks from teammates. In this one, Kanter picked up his 1st foul of the game in the third quarter and had words for Beasley because dude being out of position led to it. So part one of this is Beasley and floor positioning are allergic to each other. Two is Kanter as sole rim protector with no fouls mid-third does not bode well for the team. No KP, no THJ and some really bizarre line-ups combined to make this near unwatchable. There was a chunk of second quarter minutes devoted to Willy/Kanter as a 4/5 tandem. We got killed inside all night, Ramon Sessions again found floor time and Courtney Lee who played an absurd amount of minutes the night before WITH a respiratory infection spent the game passing to Pacers so I'm guessing he had a fever also. This was ugly, so if you didn't watch...understandable. Here's some recap:

Jack: Jarrett Jack switches a lot, it saves him the trouble of actually guarding a PG attack. But what happens when he switches onto a PF that attacks? He still gets blown by. I'm not gonna list his numbers or mention his offensive play after a night where his defense was that bad. How about his assignment? 10,10 and 4 plus 3 steals and 2 blocks for Collison. You can't hide this guy without a shotblocking presence inside and good defensive communication.

Beas: 13 pts and 5 boards in 14 minutes isn't supposed to be so ugly. But he managed 10 shot attempts, 0 assists and 5 TO's in under 15 minutes to go along with an astounding lack of defensive fundamentals. There are times where he hustles hard enough to make up for poor defensive decisions (not knowing when to switch, tunnel vision on one offensive player, standing too far away from his man, etc.) but after 3 starts, it's glaring how bad he is for everybody. Not just himself but everybody. If he starts again, I might skip the next recap because I'll break my remote or tv watching this dude and Jarrett Jack switching.

Lee: 8 pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs on 4/7 shooting. He threw some UGLY passes and looked like he never recovered from the night before where he was ready to collapse at the end. Am I gonna hammer a sick dude who played over 35 minutes the night before but still showed up to play for his undermanned team? Nah. But he looked hurt out there and surrounded by subpar defenders, having him labor meant we were REALLY screwed.

Kanter: 7 and 6 on 3/8 in 19 mins. Lack of efficiency is gonna happen when the defense doesn't have to worry about anybody else so his 1 ast to 3 TO's and lower output makes sense. Defensively, we know he's not a world-beater and with so many defenders getting blown by Kanter's footspeed wasn't enough to challenge guys consistently. For as much as I liked him calling out Beasley who had been killing everybody, that play seemed like one where the awareness was there but his feet weren't fast enough to get the stop.

Dotson: Dotson's defense stood amid the muddle of confusion that followed the rest of the starters. At times he forced TO's from the awkward yet inexplicably effective ball handling of Lance Stephenson. I haven't had a chance to do this for a while, so shout out to the dude's rebounding instincts and effort. On offense he was pretty timid for a lot of the game but when he was out there with the second unit and the youth crew, he started to assert himself and show something. Talk about impacting areas of the game; 9 pts, 7 boards, an assist, 2 steals and a block and he knocked down two trey's out of 5 attempts (one assisted by Noah who hyped Dot up for it which was cool even if we were down 30). Minutes for this guy are gonna be good, we'll see how much comfort and confidence he can develop with different crews. I'd like the starters to look for him a bit, a little encouragement from Noah went a long way later on. That's what vets need to be doing.

Frank: Frank went 2/11 in 27 minutes with no three pointers in 3 attempts. He put up a pedestrian 7 pts, 2 asts and 1 board; So why was I happy? Well for one, he was a pace pusher. Even on some makes, he got the ball and shot up court to try and make something happen with the likes of Lance Thomas and Ron Baker as running mates. For two, you could see him toying with speed changes. He would sprint up court and as the first man across half approached, shoulders would shoot back for a slowdown and then he'd press turbo again. This got his feet into the paint repeatedly and the key word is repeatedly. He missed lay-ups, his jumper was flat, his best passes were wasted on poor offensive partners...but the aggression was a step up from what we've seen before for the second straight game. The shot will fall some nights, the finishing inside requires repetitions but I'll take the ugly stat-line because what we saw on the court is what many have been asking for from the kid. Be aggressive, find your shot and become a dual threat to both pass or attack. It's coming...

Doug: Nice bounceback from a disappointing one the night before as a scorer. Not so nice on boards or playmaking and forgettable on defense. 5/8 from the field for 12 pts, 2 asts, 1 board. He got starter's minutes and wasn't bad...not good but certainly not bad. That sets him apart from Beasley and Lance who were both pretty bad.

KOQ: I wanna point this out before I get into the other bigs...Kyle's been stepping his energy up recently and it showed in this game with 4 points, 6 boards and an assist in just 8 minutes. He was 2/6 which hurts the aesthetic a bit but he was doing good things out there. The blowout meant that his time got clipped HARD right as he's started building momentum and as much as I love seeing Willy get minutes or Noah leading things...I felt for KOQ who was getting big minutes while looking unenthusiastic only to see single digit play on his third straight game of "I'm trying again coach, look."

Willy: Reminded everybody of the good and the bad of a Willy Hernangomez performance. 14 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists on 7/10 from the field (7/9 not counting a last second three pointer) all tallied in just 17 minutes. Dude is fun to watch work offensively with superior vision to the average big and a legit collection of post moves both finesse and power. On defense...ghastly. To the kid's credit, he seems to settle in on that end the longer he's out there. It's like the game starts off at hyperspeed to him and slows down to just "too fast" by the time he's had 10 minutes of adjustment. Kanter has slow feet but with pressure from everybody, he usually finds himself in the right place or trying to do the right thing at minimum. Willy hasn't shown that since late last season. There's a caveat though, a chunk of Willy's time was spent at the 4 with Kanter in the middle and it was ugly. No excuse for the poor D, but starting out of position and in an awkward front court pairing definitely doesn't help a guy get in a rhythm on either end.

Noah:
3 pts, 3 asts, 4 boards in 8 mins...that's pretty impressive tbh. He looked more fluid handling the ball than he ever did last year and his passing ability showed a bit. The really likeable part though was his energy. The team was down like a 64 seed in the NCAA tournament but Noah was out there working and yelling encouragement when Dotson hit a three. He saw Dotson hit and fed the man again. That sort of little stuff is cool to see with the young guys and I don't think even our PG's have so actively sought to get a youngster going.

Lance: 2/7 4 pts, 1 assist, 1 steal and the low output isn't for lack of touches. He got too many opportunities to impact the offense in his 17 minutes...it's just not the role for him. Defensively, things were so ugly that for most of the game he couldn't change much.

Ramon: If we want a short, poor defending, slashing PG whose instincts are better taking the shot than passing...might as well try Trey Burke out since he's younger and has some athleticism left. Sessions put up 5 and 2 in 14 minutes where he jacked 8 shots up surrounded by young guys that we want to see work (I'm staring at the Noah section and wondering why our old man PG's can't get the memo). Willy was the only one with chemistry with Ramon and that makes sense because it was the pick man. Don't let his +/- fool you, he was not fun to watch out there. Also, he got fourth quarter minutes again while we could have kept giving a lottery developmental piece extra burn. Jeff's gonna make us hate him when it's not dude's fault...well the shooting is but Jeff's not stopping him.

Baker: 22 minutes, 9 pts, 4 assists on 2/3 from the field (all three's). He passed up way some WIDE OPEN chances and not for better shots. But he chases on defense and if the second guard can handle the ball, he's at least not going jack up nonsense. Honestly, I'm so tired of Jarrett Jack and Ramon Sessions (I know only two games with him back but that's enough) that I'm now supporting any movement to bench the old dudes and let Frank/Baker learn by fire to deal with on-ball pressure. Things will likely get uglier before they get better but we'll at least be TRYING to have the defensive identity that faded with our lead in Cleveland and hasn't been back.

Jeff: I've scratched my head at some of his decisions and last night was no different. He Pair Beasley with Kanter, then in the second quarter paired Willy with Kanter; what did Enes Kanter do you Jeff? Frank's best passes went to Lance, Ron and Sessions...yikes. Kid's assist totals might look different with players that actually know how to put the ball in the hoop nearby. But at least that second situation has forced Frank to shoot...and shoot....and shoot. So maybe it's a mindgame. The Kanter pairings with our worst defensive players though...not forgivable. I don't care how much offense we're lacking, you erase our entire "defense matters" identity which was already teetering on edge with those front court situations.

Random: I've never seen someone throw more no-look passes into the stands than Sabonis. It's hilarious and bizarre.


Beasley legit can't start. I understand that we need some offensive player who can soak up possessions and score in iso if need be, but Beasley is just so careless and bizarre on both ends.

I'd rather lose by 30 starting Doug and save myself 10+ blown possessions
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#197 » by mpharris36 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:40 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Yes. The alternative was/is Jack and Sessions.

I’ll rock with Frank fuqing up over this ****.


Well, me too. But most coaches just don't hand the reigns over to a rookie. Sure Ball starts, but Fox doesn't and he's better than Ball.

More my point that it's not unusual. I'd rather see Frank start due to roster construction though. And he might as well get reps getting used to KP, THJr and maybe, Kanter.


Fox also has a starting caliber guy (in theory) in front of him. Jack has resembled that at times, more than anyone could of have expected. But if he starts slowing down, we should start Frank.

Growing pains versus geriatric pains.


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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#198 » by j4remi » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:40 pm

GONYK wrote:
Spoiler:
j4remi wrote:Repeat after me, you cannot preach defense for 20 games and roll out a starting frontcourt of Beasley and Kanter while expecting to be taken serious. In the first game of this nightmarish back to back, I mentioned that Beas was getting confused and dirty looks from teammates. In this one, Kanter picked up his 1st foul of the game in the third quarter and had words for Beasley because dude being out of position led to it. So part one of this is Beasley and floor positioning are allergic to each other. Two is Kanter as sole rim protector with no fouls mid-third does not bode well for the team. No KP, no THJ and some really bizarre line-ups combined to make this near unwatchable. There was a chunk of second quarter minutes devoted to Willy/Kanter as a 4/5 tandem. We got killed inside all night, Ramon Sessions again found floor time and Courtney Lee who played an absurd amount of minutes the night before WITH a respiratory infection spent the game passing to Pacers so I'm guessing he had a fever also. This was ugly, so if you didn't watch...understandable. Here's some recap:

Jack: Jarrett Jack switches a lot, it saves him the trouble of actually guarding a PG attack. But what happens when he switches onto a PF that attacks? He still gets blown by. I'm not gonna list his numbers or mention his offensive play after a night where his defense was that bad. How about his assignment? 10,10 and 4 plus 3 steals and 2 blocks for Collison. You can't hide this guy without a shotblocking presence inside and good defensive communication.

Beas: 13 pts and 5 boards in 14 minutes isn't supposed to be so ugly. But he managed 10 shot attempts, 0 assists and 5 TO's in under 15 minutes to go along with an astounding lack of defensive fundamentals. There are times where he hustles hard enough to make up for poor defensive decisions (not knowing when to switch, tunnel vision on one offensive player, standing too far away from his man, etc.) but after 3 starts, it's glaring how bad he is for everybody. Not just himself but everybody. If he starts again, I might skip the next recap because I'll break my remote or tv watching this dude and Jarrett Jack switching.

Lee: 8 pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs on 4/7 shooting. He threw some UGLY passes and looked like he never recovered from the night before where he was ready to collapse at the end. Am I gonna hammer a sick dude who played over 35 minutes the night before but still showed up to play for his undermanned team? Nah. But he looked hurt out there and surrounded by subpar defenders, having him labor meant we were REALLY screwed.

Kanter: 7 and 6 on 3/8 in 19 mins. Lack of efficiency is gonna happen when the defense doesn't have to worry about anybody else so his 1 ast to 3 TO's and lower output makes sense. Defensively, we know he's not a world-beater and with so many defenders getting blown by Kanter's footspeed wasn't enough to challenge guys consistently. For as much as I liked him calling out Beasley who had been killing everybody, that play seemed like one where the awareness was there but his feet weren't fast enough to get the stop.

Dotson: Dotson's defense stood amid the muddle of confusion that followed the rest of the starters. At times he forced TO's from the awkward yet inexplicably effective ball handling of Lance Stephenson. I haven't had a chance to do this for a while, so shout out to the dude's rebounding instincts and effort. On offense he was pretty timid for a lot of the game but when he was out there with the second unit and the youth crew, he started to assert himself and show something. Talk about impacting areas of the game; 9 pts, 7 boards, an assist, 2 steals and a block and he knocked down two trey's out of 5 attempts (one assisted by Noah who hyped Dot up for it which was cool even if we were down 30). Minutes for this guy are gonna be good, we'll see how much comfort and confidence he can develop with different crews. I'd like the starters to look for him a bit, a little encouragement from Noah went a long way later on. That's what vets need to be doing.

Frank: Frank went 2/11 in 27 minutes with no three pointers in 3 attempts. He put up a pedestrian 7 pts, 2 asts and 1 board; So why was I happy? Well for one, he was a pace pusher. Even on some makes, he got the ball and shot up court to try and make something happen with the likes of Lance Thomas and Ron Baker as running mates. For two, you could see him toying with speed changes. He would sprint up court and as the first man across half approached, shoulders would shoot back for a slowdown and then he'd press turbo again. This got his feet into the paint repeatedly and the key word is repeatedly. He missed lay-ups, his jumper was flat, his best passes were wasted on poor offensive partners...but the aggression was a step up from what we've seen before for the second straight game. The shot will fall some nights, the finishing inside requires repetitions but I'll take the ugly stat-line because what we saw on the court is what many have been asking for from the kid. Be aggressive, find your shot and become a dual threat to both pass or attack. It's coming...

Doug: Nice bounceback from a disappointing one the night before as a scorer. Not so nice on boards or playmaking and forgettable on defense. 5/8 from the field for 12 pts, 2 asts, 1 board. He got starter's minutes and wasn't bad...not good but certainly not bad. That sets him apart from Beasley and Lance who were both pretty bad.

KOQ: I wanna point this out before I get into the other bigs...Kyle's been stepping his energy up recently and it showed in this game with 4 points, 6 boards and an assist in just 8 minutes. He was 2/6 which hurts the aesthetic a bit but he was doing good things out there. The blowout meant that his time got clipped HARD right as he's started building momentum and as much as I love seeing Willy get minutes or Noah leading things...I felt for KOQ who was getting big minutes while looking unenthusiastic only to see single digit play on his third straight game of "I'm trying again coach, look."

Willy: Reminded everybody of the good and the bad of a Willy Hernangomez performance. 14 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists on 7/10 from the field (7/9 not counting a last second three pointer) all tallied in just 17 minutes. Dude is fun to watch work offensively with superior vision to the average big and a legit collection of post moves both finesse and power. On defense...ghastly. To the kid's credit, he seems to settle in on that end the longer he's out there. It's like the game starts off at hyperspeed to him and slows down to just "too fast" by the time he's had 10 minutes of adjustment. Kanter has slow feet but with pressure from everybody, he usually finds himself in the right place or trying to do the right thing at minimum. Willy hasn't shown that since late last season. There's a caveat though, a chunk of Willy's time was spent at the 4 with Kanter in the middle and it was ugly. No excuse for the poor D, but starting out of position and in an awkward front court pairing definitely doesn't help a guy get in a rhythm on either end.

Noah:
3 pts, 3 asts, 4 boards in 8 mins...that's pretty impressive tbh. He looked more fluid handling the ball than he ever did last year and his passing ability showed a bit. The really likeable part though was his energy. The team was down like a 64 seed in the NCAA tournament but Noah was out there working and yelling encouragement when Dotson hit a three. He saw Dotson hit and fed the man again. That sort of little stuff is cool to see with the young guys and I don't think even our PG's have so actively sought to get a youngster going.

Lance: 2/7 4 pts, 1 assist, 1 steal and the low output isn't for lack of touches. He got too many opportunities to impact the offense in his 17 minutes...it's just not the role for him. Defensively, things were so ugly that for most of the game he couldn't change much.

Ramon: If we want a short, poor defending, slashing PG whose instincts are better taking the shot than passing...might as well try Trey Burke out since he's younger and has some athleticism left. Sessions put up 5 and 2 in 14 minutes where he jacked 8 shots up surrounded by young guys that we want to see work (I'm staring at the Noah section and wondering why our old man PG's can't get the memo). Willy was the only one with chemistry with Ramon and that makes sense because it was the pick man. Don't let his +/- fool you, he was not fun to watch out there. Also, he got fourth quarter minutes again while we could have kept giving a lottery developmental piece extra burn. Jeff's gonna make us hate him when it's not dude's fault...well the shooting is but Jeff's not stopping him.

Baker: 22 minutes, 9 pts, 4 assists on 2/3 from the field (all three's). He passed up way some WIDE OPEN chances and not for better shots. But he chases on defense and if the second guard can handle the ball, he's at least not going jack up nonsense. Honestly, I'm so tired of Jarrett Jack and Ramon Sessions (I know only two games with him back but that's enough) that I'm now supporting any movement to bench the old dudes and let Frank/Baker learn by fire to deal with on-ball pressure. Things will likely get uglier before they get better but we'll at least be TRYING to have the defensive identity that faded with our lead in Cleveland and hasn't been back.

Jeff: I've scratched my head at some of his decisions and last night was no different. He Pair Beasley with Kanter, then in the second quarter paired Willy with Kanter; what did Enes Kanter do you Jeff? Frank's best passes went to Lance, Ron and Sessions...yikes. Kid's assist totals might look different with players that actually know how to put the ball in the hoop nearby. But at least that second situation has forced Frank to shoot...and shoot....and shoot. So maybe it's a mindgame. The Kanter pairings with our worst defensive players though...not forgivable. I don't care how much offense we're lacking, you erase our entire "defense matters" identity which was already teetering on edge with those front court situations.

Random: I've never seen someone throw more no-look passes into the stands than Sabonis. It's hilarious and bizarre.


Beasley legit can't start. I understand that we need some offensive player who can soak up possessions and score in iso if need be, but Beasley is just so careless and bizarre on both ends.

I'd rather lose by 30 starting Doug and save myself 10+ blown possessions


Exactly. I get that we need offense, but I don't want 12 points at the expense of giving up 20 points and watching the entire defense in disarray afterward. Beasley KILLS cohesion on defense and starters are too talented to overcome it with some scoring. It's like back in the day with Al Harrington. Even when he's doing well, you're 1 or 2 plays away from him erasing that and snowballing into a disaster.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#199 » by mpharris36 » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:45 pm

GONYK wrote:
Spoiler:
j4remi wrote:Repeat after me, you cannot preach defense for 20 games and roll out a starting frontcourt of Beasley and Kanter while expecting to be taken serious. In the first game of this nightmarish back to back, I mentioned that Beas was getting confused and dirty looks from teammates. In this one, Kanter picked up his 1st foul of the game in the third quarter and had words for Beasley because dude being out of position led to it. So part one of this is Beasley and floor positioning are allergic to each other. Two is Kanter as sole rim protector with no fouls mid-third does not bode well for the team. No KP, no THJ and some really bizarre line-ups combined to make this near unwatchable. There was a chunk of second quarter minutes devoted to Willy/Kanter as a 4/5 tandem. We got killed inside all night, Ramon Sessions again found floor time and Courtney Lee who played an absurd amount of minutes the night before WITH a respiratory infection spent the game passing to Pacers so I'm guessing he had a fever also. This was ugly, so if you didn't watch...understandable. Here's some recap:

Jack: Jarrett Jack switches a lot, it saves him the trouble of actually guarding a PG attack. But what happens when he switches onto a PF that attacks? He still gets blown by. I'm not gonna list his numbers or mention his offensive play after a night where his defense was that bad. How about his assignment? 10,10 and 4 plus 3 steals and 2 blocks for Collison. You can't hide this guy without a shotblocking presence inside and good defensive communication.

Beas: 13 pts and 5 boards in 14 minutes isn't supposed to be so ugly. But he managed 10 shot attempts, 0 assists and 5 TO's in under 15 minutes to go along with an astounding lack of defensive fundamentals. There are times where he hustles hard enough to make up for poor defensive decisions (not knowing when to switch, tunnel vision on one offensive player, standing too far away from his man, etc.) but after 3 starts, it's glaring how bad he is for everybody. Not just himself but everybody. If he starts again, I might skip the next recap because I'll break my remote or tv watching this dude and Jarrett Jack switching.

Lee: 8 pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs on 4/7 shooting. He threw some UGLY passes and looked like he never recovered from the night before where he was ready to collapse at the end. Am I gonna hammer a sick dude who played over 35 minutes the night before but still showed up to play for his undermanned team? Nah. But he looked hurt out there and surrounded by subpar defenders, having him labor meant we were REALLY screwed.

Kanter: 7 and 6 on 3/8 in 19 mins. Lack of efficiency is gonna happen when the defense doesn't have to worry about anybody else so his 1 ast to 3 TO's and lower output makes sense. Defensively, we know he's not a world-beater and with so many defenders getting blown by Kanter's footspeed wasn't enough to challenge guys consistently. For as much as I liked him calling out Beasley who had been killing everybody, that play seemed like one where the awareness was there but his feet weren't fast enough to get the stop.

Dotson: Dotson's defense stood amid the muddle of confusion that followed the rest of the starters. At times he forced TO's from the awkward yet inexplicably effective ball handling of Lance Stephenson. I haven't had a chance to do this for a while, so shout out to the dude's rebounding instincts and effort. On offense he was pretty timid for a lot of the game but when he was out there with the second unit and the youth crew, he started to assert himself and show something. Talk about impacting areas of the game; 9 pts, 7 boards, an assist, 2 steals and a block and he knocked down two trey's out of 5 attempts (one assisted by Noah who hyped Dot up for it which was cool even if we were down 30). Minutes for this guy are gonna be good, we'll see how much comfort and confidence he can develop with different crews. I'd like the starters to look for him a bit, a little encouragement from Noah went a long way later on. That's what vets need to be doing.

Frank: Frank went 2/11 in 27 minutes with no three pointers in 3 attempts. He put up a pedestrian 7 pts, 2 asts and 1 board; So why was I happy? Well for one, he was a pace pusher. Even on some makes, he got the ball and shot up court to try and make something happen with the likes of Lance Thomas and Ron Baker as running mates. For two, you could see him toying with speed changes. He would sprint up court and as the first man across half approached, shoulders would shoot back for a slowdown and then he'd press turbo again. This got his feet into the paint repeatedly and the key word is repeatedly. He missed lay-ups, his jumper was flat, his best passes were wasted on poor offensive partners...but the aggression was a step up from what we've seen before for the second straight game. The shot will fall some nights, the finishing inside requires repetitions but I'll take the ugly stat-line because what we saw on the court is what many have been asking for from the kid. Be aggressive, find your shot and become a dual threat to both pass or attack. It's coming...

Doug: Nice bounceback from a disappointing one the night before as a scorer. Not so nice on boards or playmaking and forgettable on defense. 5/8 from the field for 12 pts, 2 asts, 1 board. He got starter's minutes and wasn't bad...not good but certainly not bad. That sets him apart from Beasley and Lance who were both pretty bad.

KOQ: I wanna point this out before I get into the other bigs...Kyle's been stepping his energy up recently and it showed in this game with 4 points, 6 boards and an assist in just 8 minutes. He was 2/6 which hurts the aesthetic a bit but he was doing good things out there. The blowout meant that his time got clipped HARD right as he's started building momentum and as much as I love seeing Willy get minutes or Noah leading things...I felt for KOQ who was getting big minutes while looking unenthusiastic only to see single digit play on his third straight game of "I'm trying again coach, look."

Willy: Reminded everybody of the good and the bad of a Willy Hernangomez performance. 14 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists on 7/10 from the field (7/9 not counting a last second three pointer) all tallied in just 17 minutes. Dude is fun to watch work offensively with superior vision to the average big and a legit collection of post moves both finesse and power. On defense...ghastly. To the kid's credit, he seems to settle in on that end the longer he's out there. It's like the game starts off at hyperspeed to him and slows down to just "too fast" by the time he's had 10 minutes of adjustment. Kanter has slow feet but with pressure from everybody, he usually finds himself in the right place or trying to do the right thing at minimum. Willy hasn't shown that since late last season. There's a caveat though, a chunk of Willy's time was spent at the 4 with Kanter in the middle and it was ugly. No excuse for the poor D, but starting out of position and in an awkward front court pairing definitely doesn't help a guy get in a rhythm on either end.

Noah:
3 pts, 3 asts, 4 boards in 8 mins...that's pretty impressive tbh. He looked more fluid handling the ball than he ever did last year and his passing ability showed a bit. The really likeable part though was his energy. The team was down like a 64 seed in the NCAA tournament but Noah was out there working and yelling encouragement when Dotson hit a three. He saw Dotson hit and fed the man again. That sort of little stuff is cool to see with the young guys and I don't think even our PG's have so actively sought to get a youngster going.

Lance: 2/7 4 pts, 1 assist, 1 steal and the low output isn't for lack of touches. He got too many opportunities to impact the offense in his 17 minutes...it's just not the role for him. Defensively, things were so ugly that for most of the game he couldn't change much.

Ramon: If we want a short, poor defending, slashing PG whose instincts are better taking the shot than passing...might as well try Trey Burke out since he's younger and has some athleticism left. Sessions put up 5 and 2 in 14 minutes where he jacked 8 shots up surrounded by young guys that we want to see work (I'm staring at the Noah section and wondering why our old man PG's can't get the memo). Willy was the only one with chemistry with Ramon and that makes sense because it was the pick man. Don't let his +/- fool you, he was not fun to watch out there. Also, he got fourth quarter minutes again while we could have kept giving a lottery developmental piece extra burn. Jeff's gonna make us hate him when it's not dude's fault...well the shooting is but Jeff's not stopping him.

Baker: 22 minutes, 9 pts, 4 assists on 2/3 from the field (all three's). He passed up way some WIDE OPEN chances and not for better shots. But he chases on defense and if the second guard can handle the ball, he's at least not going jack up nonsense. Honestly, I'm so tired of Jarrett Jack and Ramon Sessions (I know only two games with him back but that's enough) that I'm now supporting any movement to bench the old dudes and let Frank/Baker learn by fire to deal with on-ball pressure. Things will likely get uglier before they get better but we'll at least be TRYING to have the defensive identity that faded with our lead in Cleveland and hasn't been back.

Jeff: I've scratched my head at some of his decisions and last night was no different. He Pair Beasley with Kanter, then in the second quarter paired Willy with Kanter; what did Enes Kanter do you Jeff? Frank's best passes went to Lance, Ron and Sessions...yikes. Kid's assist totals might look different with players that actually know how to put the ball in the hoop nearby. But at least that second situation has forced Frank to shoot...and shoot....and shoot. So maybe it's a mindgame. The Kanter pairings with our worst defensive players though...not forgivable. I don't care how much offense we're lacking, you erase our entire "defense matters" identity which was already teetering on edge with those front court situations.

Random: I've never seen someone throw more no-look passes into the stands than Sabonis. It's hilarious and bizarre.


Beasley legit can't start. I understand that we need some offensive player who can soak up possessions and score in iso if need be, but Beasley is just so careless and bizarre on both ends.

I'd rather lose by 30 starting Doug and save myself 10+ blown possessions


Jeff is clueless about needing scoring! So he is willing to throw defense and turnovers out the window for meh scoring? He started the second half with horrible defense, turnover, horrible defense, chuck 3, horrible defense, and a contested fade away jumper...and Jeff still didn't take him out

5 turnovers and 10 shots is 15 possessions...he only scored 13 pts...he was horrible last night but his FG% doesn't look that bad.

same with the last game people see 10-19 and think that good when really he never gets the the FT line and he had 5 turnovers...so he had 24 possessions and scored 21 points....that is horrible. So i don't get this blind love for beasley especially when he kills the team on defense.

So he's not efficient on offense and he's a dummy on defense yet jeff is starting him because he needs offense? Jeff is a clown.
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Re: Post game: No Papa Johns 

Post#200 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Dec 5, 2017 2:48 pm

j4remi wrote:Repeat after me, you cannot preach defense for 20 games and roll out a starting frontcourt of Beasley and Kanter while expecting to be taken serious. In the first game of this nightmarish back to back, I mentioned that Beas was getting confused and dirty looks from teammates. In this one, Kanter picked up his 1st foul of the game in the third quarter and had words for Beasley because dude being out of position led to it. So part one of this is Beasley and floor positioning are allergic to each other. Two is Kanter as sole rim protector with no fouls mid-third does not bode well for the team. No KP, no THJ and some really bizarre line-ups combined to make this near unwatchable. There was a chunk of second quarter minutes devoted to Willy/Kanter as a 4/5 tandem. We got killed inside all night, Ramon Sessions again found floor time and Courtney Lee who played an absurd amount of minutes the night before WITH a respiratory infection spent the game passing to Pacers so I'm guessing he had a fever also. This was ugly, so if you didn't watch...understandable. Here's some recap:

Jack: Jarrett Jack switches a lot, it saves him the trouble of actually guarding a PG attack. But what happens when he switches onto a PF that attacks? He still gets blown by. I'm not gonna list his numbers or mention his offensive play after a night where his defense was that bad. How about his assignment? 10,10 and 4 plus 3 steals and 2 blocks for Collison. You can't hide this guy without a shotblocking presence inside and good defensive communication.

Beas: 13 pts and 5 boards in 14 minutes isn't supposed to be so ugly. But he managed 10 shot attempts, 0 assists and 5 TO's in under 15 minutes to go along with an astounding lack of defensive fundamentals. There are times where he hustles hard enough to make up for poor defensive decisions (not knowing when to switch, tunnel vision on one offensive player, standing too far away from his man, etc.) but after 3 starts, it's glaring how bad he is for everybody. Not just himself but everybody. If he starts again, I might skip the next recap because I'll break my remote or tv watching this dude and Jarrett Jack switching.

Lee: 8 pts, 1 ast, 3 TOs on 4/7 shooting. He threw some UGLY passes and looked like he never recovered from the night before where he was ready to collapse at the end. Am I gonna hammer a sick dude who played over 35 minutes the night before but still showed up to play for his undermanned team? Nah. But he looked hurt out there and surrounded by subpar defenders, having him labor meant we were REALLY screwed.

Kanter: 7 and 6 on 3/8 in 19 mins. Lack of efficiency is gonna happen when the defense doesn't have to worry about anybody else so his 1 ast to 3 TO's and lower output makes sense. Defensively, we know he's not a world-beater and with so many defenders getting blown by Kanter's footspeed wasn't enough to challenge guys consistently. For as much as I liked him calling out Beasley who had been killing everybody, that play seemed like one where the awareness was there but his feet weren't fast enough to get the stop.

Dotson: Dotson's defense stood amid the muddle of confusion that followed the rest of the starters. At times he forced TO's from the awkward yet inexplicably effective ball handling of Lance Stephenson. I haven't had a chance to do this for a while, so shout out to the dude's rebounding instincts and effort. On offense he was pretty timid for a lot of the game but when he was out there with the second unit and the youth crew, he started to assert himself and show something. Talk about impacting areas of the game; 9 pts, 7 boards, an assist, 2 steals and a block and he knocked down two trey's out of 5 attempts (one assisted by Noah who hyped Dot up for it which was cool even if we were down 30). Minutes for this guy are gonna be good, we'll see how much comfort and confidence he can develop with different crews. I'd like the starters to look for him a bit, a little encouragement from Noah went a long way later on. That's what vets need to be doing.

Frank: Frank went 2/11 in 27 minutes with no three pointers in 3 attempts. He put up a pedestrian 7 pts, 2 asts and 1 board; So why was I happy? Well for one, he was a pace pusher. Even on some makes, he got the ball and shot up court to try and make something happen with the likes of Lance Thomas and Ron Baker as running mates. For two, you could see him toying with speed changes. He would sprint up court and as the first man across half approached, shoulders would shoot back for a slowdown and then he'd press turbo again. This got his feet into the paint repeatedly and the key word is repeatedly. He missed lay-ups, his jumper was flat, his best passes were wasted on poor offensive partners...but the aggression was a step up from what we've seen before for the second straight game. The shot will fall some nights, the finishing inside requires repetitions but I'll take the ugly stat-line because what we saw on the court is what many have been asking for from the kid. Be aggressive, find your shot and become a dual threat to both pass or attack. It's coming...

Doug: Nice bounceback from a disappointing one the night before as a scorer. Not so nice on boards or playmaking and forgettable on defense. 5/8 from the field for 12 pts, 2 asts, 1 board. He got starter's minutes and wasn't bad...not good but certainly not bad. That sets him apart from Beasley and Lance who were both pretty bad.

KOQ: I wanna point this out before I get into the other bigs...Kyle's been stepping his energy up recently and it showed in this game with 4 points, 6 boards and an assist in just 8 minutes. He was 2/6 which hurts the aesthetic a bit but he was doing good things out there. The blowout meant that his time got clipped HARD right as he's started building momentum and as much as I love seeing Willy get minutes or Noah leading things...I felt for KOQ who was getting big minutes while looking unenthusiastic only to see single digit play on his third straight game of "I'm trying again coach, look."

Willy: Reminded everybody of the good and the bad of a Willy Hernangomez performance. 14 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists on 7/10 from the field (7/9 not counting a last second three pointer) all tallied in just 17 minutes. Dude is fun to watch work offensively with superior vision to the average big and a legit collection of post moves both finesse and power. On defense...ghastly. To the kid's credit, he seems to settle in on that end the longer he's out there. It's like the game starts off at hyperspeed to him and slows down to just "too fast" by the time he's had 10 minutes of adjustment. Kanter has slow feet but with pressure from everybody, he usually finds himself in the right place or trying to do the right thing at minimum. Willy hasn't shown that since late last season. There's a caveat though, a chunk of Willy's time was spent at the 4 with Kanter in the middle and it was ugly. No excuse for the poor D, but starting out of position and in an awkward front court pairing definitely doesn't help a guy get in a rhythm on either end.

Noah:
3 pts, 3 asts, 4 boards in 8 mins...that's pretty impressive tbh. He looked more fluid handling the ball than he ever did last year and his passing ability showed a bit. The really likeable part though was his energy. The team was down like a 64 seed in the NCAA tournament but Noah was out there working and yelling encouragement when Dotson hit a three. He saw Dotson hit and fed the man again. That sort of little stuff is cool to see with the young guys and I don't think even our PG's have so actively sought to get a youngster going.

Lance: 2/7 4 pts, 1 assist, 1 steal and the low output isn't for lack of touches. He got too many opportunities to impact the offense in his 17 minutes...it's just not the role for him. Defensively, things were so ugly that for most of the game he couldn't change much.

Ramon: If we want a short, poor defending, slashing PG whose instincts are better taking the shot than passing...might as well try Trey Burke out since he's younger and has some athleticism left. Sessions put up 5 and 2 in 14 minutes where he jacked 8 shots up surrounded by young guys that we want to see work (I'm staring at the Noah section and wondering why our old man PG's can't get the memo). Willy was the only one with chemistry with Ramon and that makes sense because it was the pick man. Don't let his +/- fool you, he was not fun to watch out there. Also, he got fourth quarter minutes again while we could have kept giving a lottery developmental piece extra burn. Jeff's gonna make us hate him when it's not dude's fault...well the shooting is but Jeff's not stopping him.

Baker: 22 minutes, 9 pts, 4 assists on 2/3 from the field (all three's). He passed up way some WIDE OPEN chances and not for better shots. But he chases on defense and if the second guard can handle the ball, he's at least not going jack up nonsense. Honestly, I'm so tired of Jarrett Jack and Ramon Sessions (I know only two games with him back but that's enough) that I'm now supporting any movement to bench the old dudes and let Frank/Baker learn by fire to deal with on-ball pressure. Things will likely get uglier before they get better but we'll at least be TRYING to have the defensive identity that faded with our lead in Cleveland and hasn't been back.

Jeff: I've scratched my head at some of his decisions and last night was no different. He Pair Beasley with Kanter, then in the second quarter paired Willy with Kanter; what did Enes Kanter do you Jeff? Frank's best passes went to Lance, Ron and Sessions...yikes. Kid's assist totals might look different with players that actually know how to put the ball in the hoop nearby. But at least that second situation has forced Frank to shoot...and shoot....and shoot. So maybe it's a mindgame. The Kanter pairings with our worst defensive players though...not forgivable. I don't care how much offense we're lacking, you erase our entire "defense matters" identity which was already teetering on edge with those front court situations.

Random: I've never seen someone throw more no-look passes into the stands than Sabonis. It's hilarious and bizarre.


The two things I found offensive about this game Jeff-wise is as you noted:

Beasley - Net Negative, other guys are better even with less scoring

Lee - I was SMH during the game at how this guy has been played into the ground with illness. Seems like a horrible double standard going on when at least on the PR level they list DNPs due to "illness" while Lee is out there running himself ragged and coughing up blood. Jesus H that was just intolerable to see. This is not MJ with the flu in the playoffs. This is just another game and you're literally toying with the health of your most consistent player. Inexcusable really

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