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OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump

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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#181 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Aug 7, 2018 8:27 pm

This article helps link up Paul Manafort with Kremlin operative Konstantin Kilimnik while also providing additional background on Manafort's seedy past.

How Putin’s Spies Infiltrated the Trump Campaign

https://20committee.com/2016/08/21/how-putins-spies-infiltrated-the-trump-campaign/

Schindler is a legit commentator on intelligence related matters

Text in spoiler with added highlights

Spoiler:
Donald Trump’s campaign for the presidency entered a new crisis at the end of this week with the resignation of Paul Manafort, his campaign manager, amid allegations of dirty money and Kremlin connections.

Manafort was brought into the campaign in late March to give the Trump campaign focus as it prepared for the Republican party convention. His predecessor, Corey Lewandowski, possessed limited political experience and had been managing a sandwich shop before he was hired to head up Trump’s presidential bid.

Although Manafort possessed ample political experience, not all of it was welcome. The veteran 67-year-old Republican consultant had helped to elect Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, then George H. W. Bush in 1988, but he had not worked on a Republican presidential campaign since Bob Dole’s failed bid in 1996.

Manafort instead spent ample time overseas, serving as a fixer for various foreign governments – not all of them savory or democratic. Among the regimes Manafort worked for include anti-communist rebels in Angola, Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, and Zaire’s notorious dictator Mobutu Sese Seko.

Some of Manafort’s clients were worse than unsavory. He spent four years in the early 1990s lobbying on behalf of a Kashmiri advocacy group that FBI investigation determined was actually a front group for Pakistani intelligence, the notorious ISI. For helping Pakistan’s ISI, which is infamous for its support to jihadist terrorism, Manafort’s firm received $700,000.

Connections to the ISI should have been sufficient to raise uncomfortable questions about Manafort, but the cause of his downfall this week is his open ties to corrupt oligarchs and Kremlin fronts in Ukraine. That he had spent several years in Kyiv lobbying for Viktor Yanukovych, who served as the country’s president from early 2010 to early 2014, was hardly a secret.

Indeed, Manafort was critical to Yanukovych’s rise to power, since the American fixer coached the colorless Communist functionary in modern politics. After losing elections in 2004 to the Western-oriented Orange Revolution, Yanukovych understood he needed to update his look and his message. That was what Manafort was for.

The Republican consultant taught Yanukovych how to present messages to different audiences and it paid off when his client won the presidency in January 2010. However, once in power, Yanukovych ruled in a distinctly pro-Moscow fashion. It was no secret that the new president and his Party of Regions were clients of Vladimir Putin, whose security services, above all the Federal Security Service or FSB, were allowed free reign in Ukraine as long as Yanukovych ruled in Kyiv.

Manafort was there every step of the way, and if he objected to his client’s thuggish and corrupt ways, there is no record of it. Everything was fine until Yanukovych fell in February 2014 when he was impeached by parliament and popular protests convulsed the country. When Yanukovych’s thugs attacked protestors in Kyiv, killing nearly a hundred – some of the shooting of unarmed protestors was done by FSB operatives sent to Kyiv to bolster the ailing regime – his position became untenable and he promptly fled to Russia, where he remains.

It was widely known that Manafort spent a decade advising Yanukovych, yet that did not deter Trump from appointing him his campaign manager. For Trump, who openly admires Putin, perhaps Moscow links were considered a plus. Whispers continued that Manafort’s role in Kyiv, between oligarchs and Kremlin connections, was worse than publicly acknowledged.

Nevertheless, Manafort guided his new client through the Republican convention in Cleveland last month, winning him the party’s nomination. He stood by Trump as, post-convention, the newly-anointed nominee engaged in a remarkable bout of self-immolation, between insulting the family of a dead American soldier to asking the Kremlin to find Hillary Clinton’s missing emails. As Trump committed political suicide before the cameras, Manafort remained loyal and upbeat.

That said, the convention raised questions. In Cleveland, Trump operatives rewrote the Republican party platform, watering it down from promising to provide Ukraine with “lethal defensive weapons” to merely “appropriate assistance.” Although the Trump campaign denied it had a hand in this rewrite, this was quickly proven false. While some saw Manafort behind this change, he weathered that storm, though he was hardly helped by Trump’s bizarre on-camera insistence that Putin is not “in” Ukraine – despite the presence of tens of thousands of Russian troops in Crimea and the Donbas.

Then everything unraveled this week. First came reports that Manafort had been the recipient of vast largess by the Party of Regions. Anti-fraud investigators in Kyiv discovered a ledger showing that between 2007 and 2012, Manafort was promised $12.7 million in off-the-books cash payments by Yanukovych’s ruling party. At a minimum, Manafort had served as a foreign agent without registering as one, as required by American law. The documents appear authentic and, given the lawyerly evasiveness of Manafort’s denials, there’s no reason to doubt this story.

The scandal had not yet died down – including awkward questions about where this vast sum of money really came from – when worse appeared. Now we have learned that, during his years in Kyiv, Manafort’s translator and sidekick was Konstantin Kilimnik, who had spent several years with Russian military intelligence or GRU. Although Kilimnik made no effort to hide his Kremlin affiliation, he and Manafort became fast friends.

To anybody familiar with Russian intelligence, Kilimnik was very likely Manafort’s spy-handler. At best, he was an access agent for GRU, assessing the American for possible espionage. “There are no former intelligence officers,” as Vladimir Putin has stated, and one can only imagine the glee in Moscow when Manafort was appointed Trump’s campaign manager.

That role has ended with Manafort’s resignation. A shake-up this week reduced the seasoned fixer’s role as Trump tried to re-brand his damaged campaign to take on Hillary Clinton in early November. The exposure of Manafort’s long relationship with GRU was the final straw. Even Trump, for all his overt “bromance” with Putin, could not be seen to have such an obvious Kremlin proxy heading his campaign for the White House.

It is nevertheless shocking that Manafort burrowed his way into the Trump campaign as deeply as he did. There are lessons here for Europe – and especially Germany. America is only now experiencing what Europe has already gone through – a world where parties on both the left and the right are wooed by the Kremlin, which brings cash and favors.

Germany, with its rich reservoirs of Russlandversteher, is especially vulnerable. On the left, Die Linke retains longstanding ties to Moscow, with whom it shares antipathy toward NATO and the Americans. On the rising right, where Merkel’s failed refugee policies provide fodder for Kremlin propaganda every day, the AfD and others more extreme court Russian favor and sponsorship as Germany looks towards national elections next year.

The case of Paul Manafort demonstrates how Moscow uses money and connections to influence Western politics – even in the United States. The West’s political class is vulnerable to Russian exploitation. Manafort’s demise this week is a rare case when the public gets to see this messy reality exposed. Germany is no different – and Germans who value their democracy will pay attention as 2017 approaches.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#182 » by stuporman » Wed Aug 8, 2018 12:29 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Here it is:

Great article about campaign financing.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

On paper, I was an ideal candidate for the Democrats. Born and raised in the district, a successful career in education and nonprofit work, Ivy League graduate, young, Black, with gay parents and therefore, a compelling family story. But the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee didn’t take an interest in me until they started to have doubts about the other top candidates: two white men who had already raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and a white woman who would loan her campaign $170,000. I also started raising significant money, putting me on their radar. Besides a polite if not cautionary phone call with one of their Northeast operatives, the first official communication I received from them was this:


In other words: We don’t give a **** who you are, young man. Just show us the money. In two short weeks at the very outset of my campaign, they directed me to raise $200,000.




The three men then began to grill me on my stance on fracking.

I’m against it, I told them, especially the pipeline they were trying to run past schools and homes in my district. Rendell boasted about how he had personally brought fracking to Pennsylvania. Welters shared how frustrated he is by Democrats who are “doctrinaire” on the issue. He wished they’d open up to fracking. (Welters, I learned later, is involved in the fracking industry.)






So that's the bar that both parties and almost all politicians fall under. Assuming Mueller goes where many of us think he is, what Trump and co are doing is another bar entirely.


I think all but the irretrievably jaded will be shocked at the financial machinations behind this administration.

One of the items to keep tabs on is Russia's sale of stakes in Rosneft, the state oil company. There is speculation that the 19% stake sold may have been divvied up in part to GOP members and Trump and his associates by funneling the sale through the middle east and then putting the proceeds into off-shore accounts effectively washing the money.

If this happened, Mueller probably has the money trail even if countries like Qatar and the UAE do not share their banking records. When you wash these kinds of funds it becomes harder to hide the more times the money gets handed off during the laundering process.

GEORGE NADER may be the key to unraveling this level of corruption and we're talking about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, not millions.

Mueller’s Focus on Adviser to Emirates Suggests Broader Investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/us/politics/george-nader-mueller-investigation-united-arab-emirates.html

So even if the speculation over Rosneft never becomes the truth, there are still tons of dirt that Nader has given Mueller re: Trump/GOP financial backdoor deals with Middle Eastern countries.

Nader was the first witness to get full immunity. Other plea deals still include jail time. That means Mike Flynn will still serve time in prison with a reduced sentence for cooperation. Nader will be neither indicted nor face jail time. That's how valuable he was to Mueller. So expect fireworks to eventually emerge when Nader's testimony is revealed.

Additionally, the EMOLUMENTS TRIAL is proceeding and cannot be stopped now.

Heartbreak for the Trump Hotel
A judge rules the emoluments case against the president can proceed—and suggests why his D.C. business violates the Constitution

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/emoluments-case-against-trump-over-d-c-international-hotel-can-proceed-judge-peter-messitte-rules.html

So, in Trump's instance, he will likely be convicted of multiple crimes on a state level before any power play on a federal level to try him for treason.


This is what will be the key moving forward and all that will be leveled against his immediate family until he's out of office because of pardon power or even at all since he may try to shield himself/his family with it anyway.

Trump's powers of pardon only apply to federal crimes so he and his family will be hammered with state charges so he cannot use that power. This is why Cohen was handed off to NY in prosecuting because he cannot be saved by the Trump pen and he turned because of it.

Any time a Trump associate gets hit with federal charges, like Manafort, it's because his ability to turn and provide any credible evidence is low but the terrible optics of Trump using the pardon power will be damaging to Trump's credibility.

Russia put him in the White House with their troll farming of the sheeple who support him but the GOP is using Trump like a rented mule to ramrod their country damaging policies/SCJs in and will throw him to the wolves as soon as it suits their needs.

Him and his cult followers are laughing now but Trump will be the laughing stock in history for a very long time.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#183 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 12:49 am

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
So, in Trump's instance, he will likely be convicted of multiple crimes on a state level before any power play on a federal level to try him for treason.


This is what will be the key moving forward and all that will be leveled against his immediate family until he's out of office because of pardon power or even at all since he may try to shield himself/his family with it anyway.

Trump's powers of pardon only apply to federal crimes so he and his family will be hammered with state charges so he cannot use that power. This is why Cohen was handed off to NY in prosecuting because he cannot be saved by the Trump pen and he turned because of it.

Any time a Trump associate gets hit with federal charges, like Manafort, it's because his ability to turn and provide any credible evidence is low but the terrible optics of Trump using the pardon power will be damaging to Trump's credibility.

Russia put him in the White House with their troll farming of the sheeple who support him but the GOP is using Trump like a rented mule to ramrod their country damaging policies/SCJs in and will throw him away as soon as it suits their needs.

Him and his cult followers are laughing now but Trump will be the laughing stock in history for a very long time.


Correct.

It is past the point of no return with multiple cases being referred to state attorneys in rapid succession where pardons have no power.

Moreover, the pardon powers that Trump has really have no value for trying to get co-conspirators off the hook. Many people mistakenly think Trump will be able to issue of flurry of pardons to get himself out of trouble and they are dead wrong.

In fact, a pardon to a co-conspirator would be a kind of double jeopardy for Trump. Though they would almost definitely be struck down in court as there is no precedent for pardoning your way out of presidential high crimes and misdemeanors, once he pardons someone they actually become obligated to testify when subpoenaed.

In other words, a pardon would only serve to protect the pardonee if the pardon stands, but either way they would still have to testify if summoned. They may then be protected from prosecution themselves, but not if they perjure themselves. Since Mueller already knows EVERYTHING, anyone Trump would try to pardon would merely be serving up that witness on a platter to Mueller.

So Trump has no Get Out of Jail Cards. None. He's screwed.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#184 » by stuporman » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:13 am

Clyde_Style wrote:So Trump has no Get Out of Jail Cards. None. He's screwed.


Trump may be convicted some day but will never see a moment in any custody evar yet I do wonder what will be the odds one of his fam sees a day in cuffs. :lol:
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#185 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:18 am

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:So Trump has no Get Out of Jail Cards. None. He's screwed.


Trump may be convicted some day but will never see a moment in any custody evar but I do wonder what will be the odds one of his fam sees a day in cuffs. :lol:


Once he is out of the White House and convicted how do you think he avoids jail time?

No president has ever been convicted of treason.

But even Manafort is about to get convicted and he will go to jail for the rest of his life if he doesn't cop a deal.

Trump's financial crimes blow Manafort's out of the water in terms of magnitude and multitude.

And Trump is the one person who will never be offered a plea deal.

His kids might if they turn soon. If they don't, they'll be behind bars too.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#186 » by stuporman » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:28 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:So Trump has no Get Out of Jail Cards. None. He's screwed.


Trump may be convicted some day but will never see a moment in any custody evar but I do wonder what will be the odds one of his fam sees a day in cuffs. :lol:


Once he is out of the White House and convicted how do you think he avoids jail time?

No president has ever been convicted of treason.

But even Manafort is about to get convicted and he will go to jail for the rest of his life if he doesn't cop a deal.

Trump's financial crimes blow Manafort's out of the water in terms of magnitude and multitude.

And Trump is the one person who will never be offered a plea deal.

His kids might if they turn soon. If they don't, they'll be behind bars too.


Nah, he's gonna get some campaign something or other in the end, mostly symbolic anticlimactically, but the whole public exposure of his dirty laundry will bring epic commentary on it.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#187 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:38 am

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Trump may be convicted some day but will never see a moment in any custody evar but I do wonder what will be the odds one of his fam sees a day in cuffs. :lol:


Once he is out of the White House and convicted how do you think he avoids jail time?

No president has ever been convicted of treason.

But even Manafort is about to get convicted and he will go to jail for the rest of his life if he doesn't cop a deal.

Trump's financial crimes blow Manafort's out of the water in terms of magnitude and multitude.

And Trump is the one person who will never be offered a plea deal.

His kids might if they turn soon. If they don't, they'll be behind bars too.


Nah, he's gonna get some campaign something or other in the end, mostly symbolic anticlimactically, but the whole public exposure of his dirty laundry will bring epic commentary on it.


I'm being perfectly honest when I say I have no idea what you just wrote.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#188 » by stuporman » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:52 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Once he is out of the White House and convicted how do you think he avoids jail time?

No president has ever been convicted of treason.

But even Manafort is about to get convicted and he will go to jail for the rest of his life if he doesn't cop a deal.

Trump's financial crimes blow Manafort's out of the water in terms of magnitude and multitude.

And Trump is the one person who will never be offered a plea deal.

His kids might if they turn soon. If they don't, they'll be behind bars too.


Nah, he's gonna get some campaign something or other in the end, mostly symbolic anticlimactically, but the whole public exposure of his dirty laundry will bring epic commentary on it.


I'm being perfectly honest when I say I have no idea what you just wrote.


Wait no.... you gonna be one of those who chants 'lock him up' unironically, huh?
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#189 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:55 am

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:
Nah, he's gonna get some campaign something or other in the end, mostly symbolic anticlimactically, but the whole public exposure of his dirty laundry will bring epic commentary on it.


I'm being perfectly honest when I say I have no idea what you just wrote.


Wait no.... you gonna be one of those who chants 'lock him up' unironically, huh?


Excuse me? Stupor, what are you doing? You're a real headscratcher sometimes
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#190 » by Dave DaButcher » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:00 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Wow. You're a hero! Count me in the "high-five" group. Well done.

So are you still doing this kind of work? What's your view on the upcoming mid-terms?

Thanks Wingo!

Yes, given its relevance to what I do, I still follow the elections closely and meet with pollsters, others from time to time. With the giant disclaimer that elections are, by definition, highly fluid, and the shocking 2016 outcome makes me a lot more cautious about making predictions with any sort of conviction, my view as of today is that the House will flip Democrat (the consensus view), while the Senate will be very close, with odds favoring the Republicans to maintain a razor thin majority.

There are 45 Democratic seats that are either not up for election, safe D, or lean D. Meanwhile, there are 48 such seats in the Republican column as of now. So, there are 7 toss-up races, and the Democrats need to win 6 to retake control of the Senate. Note, the Cruz-Beto race in Texas is getting closer, and if trends continue, then the safe Republican count will drop to 47, and there will then be 8 toss-ups.

Those toss-ups are AZ, FL, MO, IN, NV, ND and TN. The state polling data is spotty, especially this far out. But based on the data I've seen, the Democrat is up in 3, the Republican is ahead in one (FL), while the other 3 are either tied or no polling has been done. All these races are within the margin for error.

So net-net, retaking the Senate is still a long shot for the Democrats primarily because they have so many more seats up for election this cycle. But the data is encouraging, and if a blue wave actually emerges, its possible.

Still, simply re-taking the House, which will give new Democratic committee chairmen/women subpoena power and the ability to reassert Congress' traditional oversight authority that the craven Republican leadership has completely abdicated, could begin to turn the tide.


Agreed. Taking back the House is more important. In the Senate, we still have two Dems there (Heidkamp and Manchin) who are unreliable when we're in the minority. I'm not sure what to do about them but they are a hindrance. As you say, these things are fluid and can still sway in either direction, though it looks like nothing but rough waters ahead for the GOP as we lead up to November. And I don't see them finding religion in between now and then. Should be very interesting.

Thanks Dave for the all the insight.

Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#191 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:17 am

Dave DaButcher wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:Thanks Wingo!

Yes, given its relevance to what I do, I still follow the elections closely and meet with pollsters, others from time to time. With the giant disclaimer that elections are, by definition, highly fluid, and the shocking 2016 outcome makes me a lot more cautious about making predictions with any sort of conviction, my view as of today is that the House will flip Democrat (the consensus view), while the Senate will be very close, with odds favoring the Republicans to maintain a razor thin majority.

There are 45 Democratic seats that are either not up for election, safe D, or lean D. Meanwhile, there are 48 such seats in the Republican column as of now. So, there are 7 toss-up races, and the Democrats need to win 6 to retake control of the Senate. Note, the Cruz-Beto race in Texas is getting closer, and if trends continue, then the safe Republican count will drop to 47, and there will then be 8 toss-ups.

Those toss-ups are AZ, FL, MO, IN, NV, ND and TN. The state polling data is spotty, especially this far out. But based on the data I've seen, the Democrat is up in 3, the Republican is ahead in one (FL), while the other 3 are either tied or no polling has been done. All these races are within the margin for error.

So net-net, retaking the Senate is still a long shot for the Democrats primarily because they have so many more seats up for election this cycle. But the data is encouraging, and if a blue wave actually emerges, its possible.

Still, simply re-taking the House, which will give new Democratic committee chairmen/women subpoena power and the ability to reassert Congress' traditional oversight authority that the craven Republican leadership has completely abdicated, could begin to turn the tide.


Agreed. Taking back the House is more important. In the Senate, we still have two Dems there (Heidkamp and Manchin) who are unreliable when we're in the minority. I'm not sure what to do about them but they are a hindrance. As you say, these things are fluid and can still sway in either direction, though it looks like nothing but rough waters ahead for the GOP as we lead up to November. And I don't see them finding religion in between now and then. Should be very interesting.

Thanks Dave for the all the insight.

Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.


It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#192 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:23 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Agreed. Taking back the House is more important. In the Senate, we still have two Dems there (Heidkamp and Manchin) who are unreliable when we're in the minority. I'm not sure what to do about them but they are a hindrance. As you say, these things are fluid and can still sway in either direction, though it looks like nothing but rough waters ahead for the GOP as we lead up to November. And I don't see them finding religion in between now and then. Should be very interesting.

Thanks Dave for the all the insight.

Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.


It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?


I know some of these races are heavy hauls for the democratic candidate, but after a while "close" isn't going to be enough. We need wins. There are no lottery picks at the end of these races. :lol:
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#193 » by Dave DaButcher » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:24 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Agreed. Taking back the House is more important. In the Senate, we still have two Dems there (Heidkamp and Manchin) who are unreliable when we're in the minority. I'm not sure what to do about them but they are a hindrance. As you say, these things are fluid and can still sway in either direction, though it looks like nothing but rough waters ahead for the GOP as we lead up to November. And I don't see them finding religion in between now and then. Should be very interesting.

Thanks Dave for the all the insight.

Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.


It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?

Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#194 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:32 am

Dave DaButcher wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.


It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?

Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.


Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#195 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:33 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:Hey everyone, keep an eye on today’s special House election in Ohio. Both parties have spent a lot of money on this race, and Trump campaigned for the Republican last week, something Kasich and others opposed.

The result could provide a window into November as it will be telling whether suburban Republicans are sufficiently turned off by Trump to either stay home or vote Democrat.

Currently, it’s a dead heat with 90% of precincts reporting.


It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?


I know some of these races are heavy hauls for the democratic candidate, but after a while "close" isn't going to be enough. We need wins. There are no lottery picks at the end of these races. :lol:


As a lead-up to November this is very promising even if no cigar on an interim basis. It closed the gap almost completely which is a big deal in formerly dominant GOP districts.

One thing I've emphasized in the past is Mueller has specifically timed his strategy to lead up to November.

That's three more months of what will soon feel like carpet bombing from the investigation.

And that can easily peel off several more percent from GOP support either in terms of defections or GOP voters who elect to sit it out.

It is going better than it may feel like at the moment
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#196 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:33 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?

Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.


Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?


Trump's support has not yielded any benefit during special elections of late
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#197 » by Dave DaButcher » Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:38 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
It looks like a razor thin margin, but the GOP candidate probably won by a fraction of a percent.

If it is this close, then it could go the other way soon since this will be voted on again in November as this race is just a temporary three month vacancy.

Who do you think a larger turnout in November might benefit then?

Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.


Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?

I think we’ll need to see the exit polling data (if there is any for this race) to get a good handle on whether he helped or hurt. Or perhaps we will be able to infer that by the turnout numbers.

Which Michigan race are you referring to? There are a few today I see.

The other race people have been focused on is the GOP primary battle for Governor in Kansas. Looks like the more moderate sitting governor is up very slightly over the hard right conservative Kobach that Trump came out to support. Only half the precincts are in right now.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#198 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 8, 2018 3:04 am

Dave DaButcher wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.


Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?

I think we’ll need to see the exit polling data (if there is any for this race) to get a good handle on whether he helped or hurt. Or perhaps we will be able to infer that by the turnout numbers.

Which Michigan race are you referring to? There are a few today I see.

The other race people have been focused on is the GOP primary battle for Governor in Kansas. Looks like the more moderate sitting governor is up very slightly over the hard right conservative Kobach that Trump came out to support. Only half the precincts are in right now.


Only 44% reported so far in Michigan. Saad is at 19% the leader (out of four candidates) is at 27%.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#199 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:20 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Dave DaButcher wrote:Yes, a Democratic win would be more meaningful than a Republican victory. This is a district that’s been held by Republicans since the 80’s. Even a very close loss given Trump’s involvement in the race should be viewed as boding well for the Democrats in November.


Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?


Trump's support has not yielded any benefit during special elections of late


I just read the Ohio House seat between Balderson and O'Conner sits in a heavily gerrymandered district.
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Re: OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump 

Post#200 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:33 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Ok, I can understand it in this particular race. The question I have is, did Trump's campaigning for the GOP candidate help or hurt him?

Also, any idea what Michigan's race looking like?


Trump's support has not yielded any benefit during special elections of late


I just read the Ohio House seat between Balderson and O'Conner sits in a heavily gerrymandered district.


It's a good indicator. I believe significant gaps have been closed in every single race thus far

The margin picked up on Balderson was 35% from the Trump vote in 2016. That's a huge gain

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