2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[TerrenceClarke]

Moody is the Truth. I go back and forth with him and Zaire, but I tend to to give Moody the edge cause I think his shot will be more reliable. If we could walk away from this draft with Moody call that a win. Moody screams pro. Has a more dynamic Klay Thompson vibes.

[3toheadmelo]

3toheadmelo wouldn't have liked Sprewell or Houston either.

Moody is as close to Houston as I've seen recently. And Houston had a better handle than Spree, so Melo saying he wouldn't have liked either of them.

Bruh.

You meaning to tell me Moody can create his own shot like Houston? The closest thing to Houston right now is Klay. So unless you calling him the next Klay, have a seat. He’s more of a Covington/Mikal type player. Which is still nice, but we need more of a dynamic shot creator right now next to RJ and Randle.


How dare you disrespect Houston yo

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[2010]

Moody is the Truth. I go back and forth with him and Zaire, but I tend to to give Moody the edge cause I think his shot will be more reliable. If we could walk away from this draft with Moody call that a win. Moody screams pro. Has a more dynamic Klay Thompson vibes.

I'm tryna tell this guy Melo but he stuck on stupid.

[2010]

When is the last time Leon Rose actually spoke? Has he ever given the rationale behind the Toppin/Quickley picks?

At this point we still have no idea what the front office's philosophy is when evaluating picks.

Do front offices usually discuss their drafting philosophy? It always gets overanalyzed and turned into a negative if they bust, like Fiz saying they liked Knox because he had a great workout.

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

[Zenzibar]

How about a 6'10" point guard with the late pick?

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[2010]

I'm reading some terrible takes in here this morning.

• Cade is only excelling due to his size in college
• Suggs is only succeeding due to being at Gonzaga
• Moody has no handle
• Ziaire is better than Suggs

I guess we've reached that point where cats have said so much about prospects that now they're bored and gotta start reaching with their commentary.

...except I never said that Suggs is only succeeding due to being Gonzaga. Hell I expressly said that I still liked the kid, and have him firmly in my top tier...or top two tiers if I give Cade his own. How much Suggs' success would be limited by having to deal with our spacing, rather than Gonzaga's is a valid question...but that's not even what I was getting at.

I was just getting the fact that a lot of these OADs aren't in anywhere near as favorable of situations to show off their skillsets & what they do well, as Suggs is. Which makes me wonder how much higher we would be on other kids if they had had the same opportunity that Suggs has. Not to take away from Suggs, but rather to give the other talents their fair shake.

Like Keon Johnson, if he wasn't coming off the bench for a slow & super-defensive Tennessee team that tries to grind out wins without having to score more than 50, but instead were starting next to Suggs in that high-powered & up-tempo Gonzaga offense, would we be looking at him as a top 10 lock? Or what about BJ Boston? What if he got to be just another cog in that Gonzaga machine, instead of having Cal ask him to run the mess they've got in Kentucky this season. Would his stock still be in the crapper or would we be arguing about whether he should be a top 5 pick?

Or hell, what about Cade? What if Cade got to feed Kispert & co. rather than a group of bums that you, me & the next 3 posters to comment in this thread could beat? If that were happening, how many Cade vs Luka/Lebron threads would there be on the mainboard right now? I'm guessing at least 5.

Can't fault Suggs for having that opportunity, but it is something to keep in mind when talking about other prospects who aren't in as good of a position to display their talent.

I can't go off hypotheticals. I can only go off what I can see and evaluate. You be killing me with the Keon Johnson point guard mythicals tho

I don't know what you're seeing to be so locked in on him. I've checked out his Tennesee games and high school footage. He athletic but I don't see this Westbrook potential waiting to be unlocked that you keep talking up.

[TerrenceClarke]

I will agree that moody is not a great isolation player at the moment. But that to me is also his appeal cause he has a good enough handle to be a good slasher/cutter and can be effective with out causing the offense to stall. He is plug and play into any offensive system. He is a much better ball handler than Covington or Mikal that much for sure. This is not some dude that has to camp out on the 3pt line to make a living.

[2010]

3toheadmelo wouldn't have liked Sprewell or Houston either.

Moody is as close to Houston as I've seen recently. And Houston had a better handle than Spree, so Melo saying he wouldn't have liked either of them.

Bruh.

You meaning to tell me Moody can create his own shot like Houston? The closest thing to Houston right now is Klay. So unless you calling him the next Klay, have a seat. He’s more of a Covington/Mikal type player. Which is still nice, but we need more of a dynamic shot creator right now next to RJ and Randle.


How dare you disrespect Houston yo

Watch on YouTube

Yes, I do see some H20/Klay vibes. Which is why I'm laughing at you tryna peg him as Covington

[3toheadmelo]

I will agree that moody is not a great isolation player at the moment. But that to me is also his appeal cause he has a good enough handle to be a good slasher/cutter and can be effective with out causing the offense to stall. He is plug and play into any offensive system. He is a much better ball handler than Covington or Mikal that much for sure. This is not some dude that has to camp out on the 3pt line to make a living.

I’ll admit I haven’t seen much of him. I gotta watch more of him. But if what you guys are saying is true I might hop on the bandwagon

[3toheadmelo]

3toheadmelo wouldn't have liked Sprewell or Houston either.

Moody is as close to Houston as I've seen recently. And Houston had a better handle than Spree, so Melo saying he wouldn't have liked either of them.

Bruh.

You meaning to tell me Moody can create his own shot like Houston? The closest thing to Houston right now is Klay. So unless you calling him the next Klay, have a seat. He’s more of a Covington/Mikal type player. Which is still nice, but we need more of a dynamic shot creator right now next to RJ and Randle.


How dare you disrespect Houston yo

Watch on YouTube

Yes, I do see some H20/Klay vibes. Which is why I'm laughing at you tryna peg him as Covington

I’m gonna watch more of him. I’ll come back.
If I’m disappointed, I will not spare you.

[cgf]

I'm reading some terrible takes in here this morning.

• Cade is only excelling due to his size in college
• Suggs is only succeeding due to being at Gonzaga
• Moody has no handle
• Ziaire is better than Suggs

I guess we've reached that point where cats have said so much about prospects that now they're bored and gotta start reaching with their commentary.

...except I never said that Suggs is only succeeding due to being Gonzaga. Hell I expressly said that I still liked the kid, and have him firmly in my top tier...or top two tiers if I give Cade his own. How much Suggs' success would be limited by having to deal with our spacing, rather than Gonzaga's is a valid question...but that's not even what I was getting at.

I was just getting the fact that a lot of these OADs aren't in anywhere near as favorable of situations to show off their skillsets & what they do well, as Suggs is. Which makes me wonder how much higher we would be on other kids if they had had the same opportunity that Suggs has. Not to take away from Suggs, but rather to give the other talents their fair shake.

Like Keon Johnson, if he wasn't coming off the bench for a slow & super-defensive Tennessee team that tries to grind out wins without having to score more than 50, but instead were starting next to Suggs in that high-powered & up-tempo Gonzaga offense, would we be looking at him as a top 10 lock? Or what about BJ Boston? What if he got to be just another cog in that Gonzaga machine, instead of having Cal ask him to run the mess they've got in Kentucky this season. Would his stock still be in the crapper or would we be arguing about whether he should be a top 5 pick?

Or hell, what about Cade? What if Cade got to feed Kispert & co. rather than a group of bums that you, me & the next 3 posters to comment in this thread could beat? If that were happening, how many Cade vs Luka/Lebron threads would there be on the mainboard right now? I'm guessing at least 5.

Can't fault Suggs for having that opportunity, but it is something to keep in mind when talking about other prospects who aren't in as good of a position to display their talent.

I can't go off hypotheticals. I can only go off what I can see and evaluate. You be killing me with the Keon Johnson point guard mythicals tho

I don't know what you're seeing to be so locked in on him. I've checked out his Tennesee games and high school footage. He athletic but I don't see this Westbrook potential waiting to be unlocked that you keep talking up.

You kinda have to though, that's why scouting is more art than science in every sport. You have to project skillsets & playing styles to different levels, roles & environments; on top of getting a read for the kid's personality. That's why so much of becoming a successful scout is experience & figuring out why you missed when you were wrong.


And I didn't mean to say that Keon = NBA-Russ; was just saying that he was showing more on the ball than NCAA-Russ did, and like with Russ & Fox; the raw tools are there for Keon to become a dynamic guard with NBA spacing and NBA shooters to feed if he continues to polish his handle & shot.

Doesn't mean he'll develop like Russ did, just like kids looking better than NCAA-Kawhi did doesn't mean they'll be as good as him in their primes.

Though I do still like Keon Johnson as a project guard in the late lotto; I'm skeptical that he'll break out enough over the rest of the season to make the serious push for a top 10 spot that I thought he could earlier in the year.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I haven't watched Ziaire Williams yet but someone is willing to take him over Suggs? The guy is shooting 36% from the field right now and more turnovers than assists. That seems a little crazy to me. Realistically how many guys that struggle in college end up turning it around in the NBA? I feel like that's gotta be a really small list.

[cgf]

I haven't watched Ziaire Williams yet but someone is willing to take him over Suggs? The guy is shooting 36% from the field right now and more turnovers than assists. That seems a little crazy to me. Realistically how many guys that struggle in college end up turning it around in the NBA? I feel like that's gotta be a really small list.

He only really struggled at the start of the season, when his pre-season bike crash was still limiting his athleticism & shot...he was wearing a huge offensive-lineman knee brace before the new year. Since getting healthy, the only area where he has continued to struggle has been finishing around the rim; which is mostly a function of getting pushed around because he still needs to fill out.

He's a good shooter, off the bounce or as a C&S guy; a good playmaker when Stanford puts the ball in his hands...see his tripple double for what he's capable of when Stanford runs their offense through him...though he does need to get better about not rifling the ball in too hard for his team-mates to catch; an excellent defender, who checks the opposition's best perimeter guy; and all around just a very smart player who consistently makes good decisions & helps his team.

He probably won't be a star right away, but the kid will be able to contribute with his length, springiness, passing, shot & intelligence, while he fills out & develops.

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[Fat]

3toheadmelo wouldn't have liked Sprewell or Houston either.

Moody is as close to Houston as I've seen recently. And Houston had a better handle than Spree, so Melo saying he wouldn't have liked either of them.

I don’t know about Allan Houston lol but moody would definitely give us much needed shooting from outside and he’s a good team defender, he should easily buy into the Knicks defensive identity there building. 9-14 range is pretty fair for him. I’d feel comfortable taking him than a lot of other guys in the same range.

[DOT]

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

[2010]

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

If we're in the 6-10 range my board is looking like this:

(Cade, Suggs, Mobley, Green, Kuminga gone)...

Jalen Johnson (questionable fit for us)
Bouknight
Moody
Ziaire
Kispert
Barnes (questionable fit for us)

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[cgf]

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

You are also assuming that Obi wasn't an upside pick.

[DOT]

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

You are also assuming that Obi wasn't an upside pick.

He wasn't.

[robillionaire]

ziaire hasn't really done anything, his stats are bad, his turnovers are also high, seems like he should be in bj boston territory, by that I mean mid first to late first

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=bj-boston--ziaire-williams