Lonzo Ball - What's your opinion of him?

[robillionaire]

Lonzo is a horrible shooter. He is the Ben Wallace of point guards.

the stats don't support what you're saying though. he's 13th in the NBA in made 3s this year. and is making them 39% on 7 attempts a game. that is really good.

ben wallace was 4x all star 4x DPOY and won a championship, is this meant as an insult

It is an insult to his shooting but thinking more seriously about it a significantly worse version of Steve Novak could be an interesting comparison. Lonzo is open all day and night from three with Zion in the middle so he has been shooting from three okay. Props to him not being shy I guess. However, that 39 percent is not sustainable when there is any real pressure. His true form is more like his time in Lakers. People would recall how Novak used to be exposed so easily once playoffs started. And obviously my comparison doesn't do justice to Novak but hopefully point is taken.

He should be open here too. We have Randle in the middle, with possibly Mitch in the middle and RJ who can drive. I don’t see why there’d be any more real pressure here than there. We always have people open on the perimeter they just aren’t making shots

[jvsimonetti0514]

Lonzo is a horrible shooter. He is the Ben Wallace of point guards.

the stats don't support what you're saying though. he's 13th in the NBA in made 3s this year. and is making them 39% on 7 attempts a game. that is really good.

ben wallace was 4x all star 4x DPOY and won a championship, is this meant as an insult

It is an insult to his shooting but thinking more seriously about it a significantly worse version of Steve Novak could be an interesting comparison. Lonzo is open all day and night from three with Zion in the middle so he has been shooting from three okay. Props to him not being shy I guess. However, that 39 percent is not sustainable when there is any real pressure. His true form is more like his time in Lakers. People would recall how Novak used to be exposed so easily once playoffs started. And obviously my comparison doesn't do justice to Novak but hopefully point is taken.

Novak was no where near the defender and playmaker Lonzo is. I honestly don’t think you’ve ever watched him play in the past two years if you’re making that comparison. You know Lonzo shot 38% from three last year too right? It’s tough to say something isn’t sustainable when he’s shot that well for 100 games. I think with that large of a sample size it’s safe to say that he’s improved a lot since his laker days too. Kinda ridiculous to argue that people don’t improve the more years they play in the nba. That be like saying rookie year RJ is the real RJ and his improvement is a lie. Randle just had a 17 assist game from mostly creating open threes for teams. I’m sure that skill won’t go away with adding another elite shooter to the roster. RJ isn’t too shabby with finding open shooters either.

[islanders11040]

Watch on YouTube

Pelicans Podcaster

Lonzo Breakdown at 17:05

[HarthorneWingo]

Watch on YouTube

Pelicans Podcaster

Lonzo Breakdown at 17:05

Yeah, I listened to that and I agree with Macri re Lonzo. $18M/year? I'm not down with that.

[WargamesX]

Watch on YouTube

Pelicans Podcaster

Lonzo Breakdown at 17:05

Yeah, I listened to that and I agree with Macri re Lonzo. $18M/year? I'm not down with that.

To put it in perspective OG Anunoby on the Raptors is making that much..... it hurts the Raptors because they should have given that to Normal Powell

However, 18 Mil is what you pay a promising roleplayer with upside these days.

[bearadonisdna]

look i get lonzo is an upgrade to what the knicks got,
but the cupboards are full and targeting a guy who in 3 years in is averaging 14 and 5 in a career year
doesnt seem like the best longterm move.

A 14 and 5 player without a name, nobody will tell you its a pillar to a rebuild.

its like having john starks as your second best player, it just doesnt seem like enough, and like more of the same. Right now knicks have the assets, id prefer something closer to top shelf if applicable.

if this guy a pillar pointguard hard to believe he is so available. And just tbh, while i enjoy lavar as an entertainer for his brashness and ignorance, i also feel his connection alone somewhat devalues lonzo at a competitive level. Fair or not im sorry its just baggage.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Hard pass on trading picks for him.

I would pass on on giving him a big deal in free agency as well, would rather keep the cap open for 22.

He's a decent role player, but would rather keep all our assets for the star level player we will need in our back court moving forward.

Saving cap space in 2022, for who? The only guys under 30 that year that are unrestricted will be Beal and LaVine. The Bulls would be stupid not to resign LaVine, and Beal is going to want to go to a ready made contender.

Every year you guys want to punt on signing good players for the dream of signing someone in the top 10, and every year they pass on us.

Who in this year's class is under 30 and unrestricted that is a Beal or Lavine level player that we can sign? Maybe Norm Powell is the closest?

Ball ain't close to that level.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Hard pass on trading picks for him.

I would pass on on giving him a big deal in free agency as well, would rather keep the cap open for 22.

He's a decent role player, but would rather keep all our assets for the star level player we will need in our back court moving forward.

How many years do we keep kicking the can down the road??? At some point, we have to pull the trigger and create a winning team.

Literally said when too, FA 2022. Better FA class imo to try and sign a difference maker, before we need to start signing our core.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Hard pass on trading picks for him.

I would pass on on giving him a big deal in free agency as well, would rather keep the cap open for 22.

He's a decent role player, but would rather keep all our assets for the star level player we will need in our back court moving forward.

Saving cap space in 2022, for who? The only guys under 30 that year that are unrestricted will be Beal and LaVine. The Bulls would be stupid not to resign LaVine, and Beal is going to want to go to a ready made contender.

Every year you guys want to punt on signing good players for the dream of signing someone in the top 10, and every year they pass on us.

It’s never ends man.

We’re too good for Brogdon. We’re too good for FVV. And seemingly now we’re too good for a 23 year old PG with excellent vision, great defense, a guy shooting 39% from 3PT on 8 attempts.

I’ll never understand what’s wrong with getting incrementally better. Especially considering that we have RJ-Randle-IQ-Mitch to further along their development process.

You aim to sign a star when you have a legitimate foundation in place.

In the meantime let’s just keep wasting money on the Payton’s, Bullock, Burks, Ellington, Courtney Lee, Taj and Portis of the world.

Yep thats it. It couldn't be that posters wanted to improve chance at getting a legitimate foundation by building through the draft (and playing the odds).

At some point if your signing Lonzo to $18 mill, and you re-sign our current foundation, you may soon run out of cap space to sign a star in the future.

[WargamesX]

Saving cap space in 2022, for who? The only guys under 30 that year that are unrestricted will be Beal and LaVine. The Bulls would be stupid not to resign LaVine, and Beal is going to want to go to a ready made contender.

Every year you guys want to punt on signing good players for the dream of signing someone in the top 10, and every year they pass on us.

It’s never ends man.

We’re too good for Brogdon. We’re too good for FVV. And seemingly now we’re too good for a 23 year old PG with excellent vision, great defense, a guy shooting 39% from 3PT on 8 attempts.

I’ll never understand what’s wrong with getting incrementally better. Especially considering that we have RJ-Randle-IQ-Mitch to further along their development process.

You aim to sign a star when you have a legitimate foundation in place.

In the meantime let’s just keep wasting money on the Payton’s, Bullock, Burks, Ellington, Courtney Lee, Taj and Portis of the world.

Yep thats it. It couldn't be that posters wanted to improve chance at getting a legitimate foundation by building through the draft (and playing the odds).

At some point if your signing Lonzo to $18 mill, and you re-sign our current foundation, you may soon run out of cap space to sign a star in the future.

That’s not accurate, we weren’t too good for FVV, the front office heard that he was really just looking to be wined and dined and run up the bill for Toronto to keep him. Basically the whole league avoided getting played, and he signed with Toronto. Brogdon was a sign and trade and we were trying to get KD and a plus 1 at that point.

When it comes to Lonzo, and 2022 I do think you add Lonzo now and move the rest of the cap forward. Even if say they max Randle (or he ideally leaves a few million on the table for roster construction) they should still have enough cap space for a max player. The real secret to the Knicks success is the very low Mitch cap hold. It’s less than 3 Million. It means that they can pay Randle, add a max player, and then sign Mitch with Bird rights. The cap is supposed to go up that year as well.

They can also always just jettison Knox and/or Obi for more space too.

I also think they will consolidate the draft picks this year to move up to not pay two salaries (unless they really like the guys they see). Knicks could probably even sign Noel, Rose, and Frank to decent salaries too and still have enough for a Max player in 2022. I actually think Burks has played himself to too good of a deal.

So then the Knicks can approach the Lavine or Beal and can say “Hey you’re a prolific scorer, leave your crap team and join this better one”.

Ball
Lavine or Beal
RJ
Randle
Mitch

IQ
Frank
Obi
Noel
2021 Rookie & 2022 Rookies.

[prophet_of_rage]

quick question. When it's time to sign Randle and Mitch, can we go over the cap in doing so? If So we can trade for Ball, sign Lavine next off season and still keep our players

I never know the answer to all these cap questions. The one good thing Dolan brings to the table is seemingly unlimited money for any player but he's not allowed to spend it.

They have a cap hold until they are signed. So if there is room to sign Lavine with the cap holds then you can sign him first and exceed the cap to resign those guys.

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[prophet_of_rage]

i'm pretty sure we didn't win any games because of payton and portis and ellington and taj

My bad. It was Mo Harkless.

Wins against Atlanta, GS, Detroit, Houston and Chicago in the final two weeks of the season.

Any sane franchise would have rolled with Mitch/Randle/Knox/RJ/DSJ (or Frank) to end the year knowing full well it could mean the difference between Obi and Lamelo.

Next you’ll tell me we didn’t win extra meaningless games playing the likes of Trey Burke and Emmanuel “I’m gonna get you right” Mudiay?

Fans love to bitch and moan about taking Knox over SGA, or about Frank over Sider Mitchell, but how quickly we forget the absolute idiocy it took to be drafting that low in the first place.

Normal teams would have played their scrubs in the final month and would have landed D Fox over Frank, Luka/Trey over Knox, or Lamelo over Obi.

Don’t pretend like it’s not real.

what happened last year, in reality, was that after fizdale was fired we competed at a different level and won more. we actually traded away one of our only good players in morris and we still won more. most of the fanbase wanted him fired but it wasn't really good for our draft position. it had very little to do with mo harkless or whatever name you want to put there.

Pretty simple. We were never as bad as Fizdale made us.1

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[prophet_of_rage]

So nothing to see here? Got it.

And the previous 2 out of 3 seasons? Also just pure coincidence that we won extra games at the end of the year while management pushed veterans over youth?

I attended two of those end of season wins sitting behind the Knicks bench, and I can tell you that Mike Miller was fighting for his job just like all those vet mercs were fighting for their next paycheck. Sorry, Sham, you are 100% incorrect.

If this franchise wanted Fox, Trey Young, or Lamelo at PG all they had to do was swallow their stupid pride for a month or two at the end of the season instead of fighting like hell to prove what exactly?

what's incorrect ? we won more with mike miller, that's a fact. fizdale wanted his job too, he just was no good at it. now you're changing the argument to talk about 3 years ago. fizdale got us the worst record 2 years ago, all we had to do was keep him all year. we didn't.

I don’t see the confusion. I agree with you. We won more with Mike Miller because his mandate, idiotically, was “win now!”

Miller was a mercenary fighting for his paycheck just like half the roster. They fought like hell for those wins, which would only happen in NY under Dolan. No other franchise would be so stupid and reckless and arrogant. Same thing we saw with the Treyverson-THJ smash bros show.

It is literally the difference between Frank starting tonight instead of potentially Luka, Trey, Fox, Sexton, or Lamelo.

I’m part of the problem because I paid good money for my seats behind the bench and my Carnegie Deli pastrami sandwich + makers mark on the rocks, and I was cheering my ass off for those extra wins. Especially the Houston win where RJ hit the game winner in Harden’s grill. But I digress.

We could have had Lamelo. Instead we choose to have his his inferior brother for 5x the price. It’s the Knick way.

But we won more with Miller because Dolan fired Fizdale because the fans were complaining and chanting sell the team. So nobody really wanted to lose.

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[knicks94]

Why is it so difficult to find an affective NBA PG? Are they that rare? 50 years and the Knicks have only had two all-star level PG's.

[Ray Williams]

I think he would fit in great with this group. We have Randle and RJ that can facilitate in the half court, where Lonzo has shown he’s an effective 3 point shooter, and we desperately need outside shooting.
He’s a demon on the fast break, and very good defensively, with the ability to guard the two allowing Quickley to play 2guard and guard the point.
Get this guy now.

[WargamesX]

quick question. When it's time to sign Randle and Mitch, can we go over the cap in doing so? If So we can trade for Ball, sign Lavine next off season and still keep our players

I never know the answer to all these cap questions. The one good thing Dolan brings to the table is seemingly unlimited money for any player but he's not allowed to spend it.

They have a cap hold until they are signed. So if there is room to sign Lavine with the cap holds then you can sign him first and exceed the cap to resign those guys.

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Also that Mitch deal is hella sweet. At a $3 million cap hold, the Knicks could sign Randle to his large contract, add lavine, and then sign Mitch. Ball at 18 doesn’t screw us. The only reason to trade for him now is if the Knicks think he would give them a bit of a discount (say 15 Mil) and even then the way these rumors sound the Knicks should see if the Pelicans will cut their losses and not over commit.

[cgmw]

what's incorrect ? we won more with mike miller, that's a fact. fizdale wanted his job too, he just was no good at it. now you're changing the argument to talk about 3 years ago. fizdale got us the worst record 2 years ago, all we had to do was keep him all year. we didn't.

I don’t see the confusion. I agree with you. We won more with Mike Miller because his mandate, idiotically, was “win now!”

Miller was a mercenary fighting for his paycheck just like half the roster. They fought like hell for those wins, which would only happen in NY under Dolan. No other franchise would be so stupid and reckless and arrogant. Same thing we saw with the Treyverson-THJ smash bros show.

It is literally the difference between Frank starting tonight instead of potentially Luka, Trey, Fox, Sexton, or Lamelo.

I’m part of the problem because I paid good money for my seats behind the bench and my Carnegie Deli pastrami sandwich + makers mark on the rocks, and I was cheering my ass off for those extra wins. Especially the Houston win where RJ hit the game winner in Harden’s grill. But I digress.

We could have had Lamelo. Instead we choose to have his his inferior brother for 5x the price. It’s the Knick way.

But we won more with Miller because Dolan fired Fizdale because the fans were complaining and chanting sell the team. So nobody really wanted to lose.

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A roster stacked with contract year mercenaries. Why is this so hard to grasp?

By filling his rosters with mediocre “win now” vets, Dolan ironically chose mediocre lotto picks (Frank, Knox, and Obi) over a chance at better prospects.

I’m not saying something controversial or even ambiguously incorrect. It happened and it is what it is.

The only year we were allowed to take our foot off the gas for a top pick was the Zion year when Dolan was fold KD was coming anyway. Every other year, we were f*cked.

Mike Miller was (rightfully) scared for his job and has no incentive to tank for Lamelo or Edwards. Also no incentive to get quality minutes to develop role playing lotto picks.

Anyway, many Knick fans choose to pretend this didn’t happen and carry on complaining about Donovan Mitchell. Is is what it is (which is moronic).

[WargamesX]

I don’t see the confusion. I agree with you. We won more with Mike Miller because his mandate, idiotically, was “win now!”

Miller was a mercenary fighting for his paycheck just like half the roster. They fought like hell for those wins, which would only happen in NY under Dolan. No other franchise would be so stupid and reckless and arrogant. Same thing we saw with the Treyverson-THJ smash bros show.

It is literally the difference between Frank starting tonight instead of potentially Luka, Trey, Fox, Sexton, or Lamelo.

I’m part of the problem because I paid good money for my seats behind the bench and my Carnegie Deli pastrami sandwich + makers mark on the rocks, and I was cheering my ass off for those extra wins. Especially the Houston win where RJ hit the game winner in Harden’s grill. But I digress.

We could have had Lamelo. Instead we choose to have his his inferior brother for 5x the price. It’s the Knick way.

But we won more with Miller because Dolan fired Fizdale because the fans were complaining and chanting sell the team. So nobody really wanted to lose.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

A roster stacked with contract year mercenaries. Why is this so hard to grasp?

By filling his rosters with mediocre “win now” vets, Dolan ironically chose mediocre lotto picks (Frank, Knox, and Obi) over a chance at better prospects.

I’m not saying something controversial or even ambiguously incorrect. It happened and it is what it is.

The only year we were allowed to take our foot off the gas for a top pick was the Zion year when Dolan was fold KD was coming anyway. Every other year, we were f*cked.

Mike Miller was (rightfully) scared for his job and has no incentive to tank for Lamelo or Edwards. Also no incentive to get quality minutes to develop role playing lotto picks.

Anyway, many Knick fans choose to pretend this didn’t happen and carry on complaining about Donovan Mitchell. Is what it is (which is moronic).

Can you even blame Dolan when the response of being .500 has the fan base happy as a pig in slop and them delusionally thinking we can go on a long playoff run with this current roster.

Then in 5 years everyone will be complaining about “Why did we win all those worthless games right before the best draft in almost 20 years?”

[cgmw]

But we won more with Miller because Dolan fired Fizdale because the fans were complaining and chanting sell the team. So nobody really wanted to lose.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

A roster stacked with contract year mercenaries. Why is this so hard to grasp?

By filling his rosters with mediocre “win now” vets, Dolan ironically chose mediocre lotto picks (Frank, Knox, and Obi) over a chance at better prospects.

I’m not saying something controversial or even ambiguously incorrect. It happened and it is what it is.

The only year we were allowed to take our foot off the gas for a top pick was the Zion year when Dolan was fold KD was coming anyway. Every other year, we were f*cked.

Mike Miller was (rightfully) scared for his job and has no incentive to tank for Lamelo or Edwards. Also no incentive to get quality minutes to develop role playing lotto picks.

Anyway, many Knick fans choose to pretend this didn’t happen and carry on complaining about Donovan Mitchell. Is what it is (which is moronic).

Can you even blame Dolan when the response of being .500 has the fan base happy as a pig in slop and them delusionally thinking we can go on a long playoff run with this current roster.

Then in 5 years everyone will be complaining about “Why did we win all those worthless games right before the best draft in almost 20 years?”

Yes.

Absolutely, yes I can.

As a paying customer and longtime ticket holder I can tell you that fans would have accepted a marketing narrative of patience— that we’re rebuilding.

Instead, when Dolan got embarrassed by KD/Kyrie he went out and spent all this money on Portis and co. with the explicit media narrative of “this is a Playoff team.”

So yes, I blame Dolan for setting that stupid delusional butt-hurt narrative. I personally yelled “sell the team” within ear shot of Dolan, and i can tell you I wasn’t angry because we were losing—I was angry because how outrageously terribly he runs things, including the fact that our starting lineup wasn’t Randle + 4 rookies/sophs when it had become abundantly clear to everyone (except Dolan) that we were nowhere near a playoff spot.

Instead I’m sitting there watching Mo Harkless for what exactly? So we can beat the Hawks on a random Tuesday late in the season? So we can high five each other over $20 beers and then draft Obi instead of Lamelo?

Yeah, I blame Dolan.

[seren]

I think he would fit in great with this group. We have Randle and RJ that can facilitate in the half court, where Lonzo has shown he’s an effective 3 point shooter, and we desperately need outside shooting.
He’s a demon on the fast break, and very good defensively, with the ability to guard the two allowing Quickley to play 2guard and guard the point.
Get this guy now.

His dad just said he wants Lonzo out because he doesn’t want Lonzo to be a 3 point threat only. He wants Lonzo to direct traffic and facilitate. Obviously Lonzo can’t do that because he has no midrange game nor can drive and finish. He is the opposite of a decent starting PG who expects to be treated as something special.