PG: Thibs runs team into the ground, wonders why we are short handed, lose to the Fake Allstar and Pacers

[thebuzzardman]

2 L's in a row

Get ready for a lot more L's. More L's than W's.

Until the Randle and OG get back. And that's several weeks of games away, or more.

[thebuzzardman]

Our issue right now is that all our most important defenders are out. We're not going to win games without our rim protectors or OG. Thibs's defensive scheme - which has proven to yield great results - relies on them being fit to play.

Burks and Bogdanovic definitely compound the issue with these players out. They just can't defend anymore. But they were not brought in to be relied upon to contribute as they are now.

Bogdanovic will likely play 15-20 minutes a game when OG and Randle come back. Burks will likely play 10-15 minutes a game by the time the playoffs start, if he plays at all.

That will be the moment to judge the trade, not right now. And I've been more skeptical about it than most (though not as critical as KG).

The question to this question is, how many games are left in the season before that happens, is that enough time for the team to get ready in the playoffs, and will the team lose enough positioning as it inevitably slides in the standings, to have a good match up in the playoffs, or instead will it draw an opponent that bounces it in the first round anyway?

I'm not against the trade. Basically, the Knicks sacrificed Grimes to get rid of Founier to get an actual useful, playable, Fournier like player. This isn't a criticism of BogBog. He's good. He can fill the roll (better) than they probably envisioned for Fournier, better because he can play 3/4, instead of Fournier's 3/2, besides the fact that Fournier was and is complete ass on defense, while Bogs is just meh, but that's ok.

I find it interesting that people were treating the team as it was the same team that existed 2 weeks before the trade.

That team might be back in 5 weeks. Once it's reassembled, it MIGHT have time to jell for the playoffs.
But it might not.

Still a good trade, so the Knicks have SOME kind of depth as they limp towards the playoffs.

And make no mistake. Brunson is awesome and makes this collection of players better than they would be, but the team is now a borderline playoff team, quality wise, until Randle and OG are back, iHart is healthy, and whatever rusty Mitch might be able to contribute, also probably in 4 or 5 weeks.

I'll just accept the fact the Knicks are going to play .400 ball for a while. Reality sucks.

I bet they still play .500+ ball in the meantime. But word.

Nope. And that's what is annoying around some reactions to the trade. Even by the media.

"OMG! The Knicks got so awesome!"

Yeah, the version of the Knicks that doesn't exist right now would be awesome.
They added COMPLIMENTARY guys to guys that aren't here.
Where Burks is expiring and Bogs might be traded anyway in the offseason.

Again, IF the Knicks get healthy and gel with about 12-15 games left and IF they don't slide in the standings, maybe this "makes them better for this year" trade works out great.

Otherwise, it's kind of "meh" depth for the team in it's CURRENT state.

Also, the question now is, do the Knicks fall all the way to 8th or wind up 6th or 7th.
Because they sure as sh*t aren't holding on to 4th place in the standings.

[Jeff Van Gully]

2 L's in a row

Get ready for a lot more L's. More L's than W's.

Until the Randle and OG get back. And that's several weeks of games away, or more.

Honestly, OG hold us down until we are back to full strength… assuming Hartenstein is able to go sooner than later.

Hoping Randle and OG are both healthy in early-ish March of course.

[louisorr]

Deuce needs to step up.

there were times last night where I wished we could bring in Malchi.
how sad is that.

[nykballa2k4]

Our issue right now is that all our most important defenders are out. We're not going to win games without our rim protectors or OG. Thibs's defensive scheme - which has proven to yield great results - relies on them being fit to play.

Burks and Bogdanovic definitely compound the issue with these players out. They just can't defend anymore. But they were not brought in to be relied upon to contribute as they are now.

Bogdanovic will likely play 15-20 minutes a game when OG and Randle come back. Burks will likely play 10-15 minutes a game by the time the playoffs start, if he plays at all.

That will be the moment to judge the trade, not right now. And I've been more skeptical about it than most (though not as critical as KG).

The question to this question is, how many games are left in the season before that happens, is that enough time for the team to get ready in the playoffs, and will the team lose enough positioning as it inevitably slides in the standings, to have a good match up in the playoffs, or instead will it draw an opponent that bounces it in the first round anyway?

I'm not against the trade. Basically, the Knicks sacrificed Grimes to get rid of Founier to get an actual useful, playable, Fournier like player. This isn't a criticism of BogBog. He's good. He can fill the roll (better) than they probably envisioned for Fournier, better because he can play 3/4, instead of Fournier's 3/2, besides the fact that Fournier was and is complete ass on defense, while Bogs is just meh, but that's ok.

I find it interesting that people were treating the team as it was the same team that existed 2 weeks before the trade.

That team might be back in 5 weeks. Once it's reassembled, it MIGHT have time to jell for the playoffs.
But it might not.

Still a good trade, so the Knicks have SOME kind of depth as they limp towards the playoffs.

And make no mistake. Brunson is awesome and makes this collection of players better than they would be, but the team is now a borderline playoff team, quality wise, until Randle and OG are back, iHart is healthy, and whatever rusty Mitch might be able to contribute, also probably in 4 or 5 weeks.

I'll just accept the fact the Knicks are going to play .400 ball for a while. Reality sucks.

I bet they still play .500+ ball in the meantime. But word.

None of this changes the obvious mistakes.
Going into the season we had NO legitimate backup power forward. Traded Toppin for chump change and didn't look into any Morris brothers, no Taureen Prince, no Jay Crowder, No Christian Wood. Then there are some younger guys out there to.
But we did address it during the Raps trade. The OG trade was perfect. However ...

One we were without Mitch, we know iHart has a chronic achillies injury, and we know our defense is predicated on rim protection. We have TPE's and SRP that we can shed. Drummond, Mosses Brown, etc -- there are players presumed to be available and affordable. We should be and should have been bolstering our depth at the 1 and 5. Burks is a nice piece but is more of a redundancy (Hart, Donte, McBride) than a need. Meanwhile in terms of distributing and shot creating league guards we still have JUST Brunson. At least with Evil Donte we actually had a 2nd point guard on the roster. With Ryan we actually had on paper 3 deep!

The deadline made us basically a paper tiger. We would have been FAR better off trading Fournier with 1 FRP ('24) for Brown and calling it a day.

[Fat Kat]

Deuce needs to step up.

there were times last night where I wished we could bring in Malchi.
how sad is that.

What was up with Deuce last night? He was a turnstile.

[iLLmatic860]

Any realistic options for a pg on the buyout market. I still think we should pick someone up for insurance

[nykballa2k4]

Deuce needs to step up.

there were times last night where I wished we could bring in Malchi.
how sad is that.

Deuce was playing pretty bad last night. I think he underestimated McConnell and thought he could just take the ball, McConnell would just zip by him, out of position with no back-end help -- easy deuce on Deuce. Happened twice in a row in the 3rd IIRC.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deuce needs to step up.

there were times last night where I wished we could bring in Malchi.
how sad is that.

He was 2-4 with 6 points in 11 minutes. Just didn’t get a lot of time and opportunities to do much else.

[sol537]

McConnell dropped a big fat Deuce on McBride. Thoroughly outplayed.

I imagine iHart will return first, then OG, then Randle, then Mitch. I am a bit concerned on our ability to get consistent stops with Grimes no longer here to augment OG’s defensive coverage. We may have overcorrected towards offense but that remains to be seen in the playoffs.

Get the 3rd seed then beat Indy, then Cleveland (won’t be easy) then Boston… then whoever comes out of the west and it could be the Mavs believe it or not.

[Buttah304]

I know he gets his counting stats and he’s pretty damn efficient from the field but I’ve never been, and continue to not be in love with Pascals game. He’s obviously relentless in his pursuit of getting to the rim but it feels as though it’s at the expense of a cohesive flow to the offense. He loves to take contested jumpers and often finds himself trying to score over multiple defenders. Poor 3PT shooter but certainly capable of hitting them off a swing-swing. He’s long in his strides and makes some tough baskets but it’s not an ascetically pleasing game. He has his head down a lot with blinders on but at the very least is capable of spraying it out on a last second double/swarm. Suffice to say - it feels like he’s a mix between a good player and one whose wildly overrated and whose impact has been overstated since 2018-2020. Guys like Pascal and Sabonis making over 200 million feels…not right.

[nykballa2k4]

Any realistic options for a pg on the buyout market. I still think we should pick someone up for insurance

Right now (assuming DRose not bought out) Ish Smith is the guy for me. He played for Stan Van, Mark Jackson, Mike Malone and Clifford all from the Riley/VanGundy tree. Won a ring last year in Denver. Respectable 3%.

Lowry and Dinwiddie are probably the only two real rotation-level pieces to come from the buyout market at point guard and both are now spoken for.
Cory Joseph is the only other name out there.
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nba/nba-buyout-free-agent-tracker-2024

[nykballa2k4]

I know he gets his counting stats and he’s pretty damn efficient from the field but I’ve never been, and continue to not be in love with Pascals game. He’s obviously relentless in his pursuit of getting to the rim but it feels as though it’s at the expense of a cohesive flow to the offense. He loves to take contested jumpers and often finds himself trying to score over multiple defenders. Poor 3PT shooter but certainly capable of hitting them off a swing-swing. He’s long in his strides and makes some tough baskets but it’s not an ascetically pleasing game. He has his head down a lot with blinders on but at the very least is capable of spraying it out on a last second double/swarm. Suffice to say - it feels like he’s a mix between a good player and one whose wildly overrated and whose impact has been overstated since 2018-2020. Guys like Pascal and Sabonis making over 200 million feels…not right.

Pascal is Randle-like in that way. He does all the things. Just looks terrible doing them.

[thebuzzardman]

The question to this question is, how many games are left in the season before that happens, is that enough time for the team to get ready in the playoffs, and will the team lose enough positioning as it inevitably slides in the standings, to have a good match up in the playoffs, or instead will it draw an opponent that bounces it in the first round anyway?

I'm not against the trade. Basically, the Knicks sacrificed Grimes to get rid of Founier to get an actual useful, playable, Fournier like player. This isn't a criticism of BogBog. He's good. He can fill the roll (better) than they probably envisioned for Fournier, better because he can play 3/4, instead of Fournier's 3/2, besides the fact that Fournier was and is complete ass on defense, while Bogs is just meh, but that's ok.

I find it interesting that people were treating the team as it was the same team that existed 2 weeks before the trade.

That team might be back in 5 weeks. Once it's reassembled, it MIGHT have time to jell for the playoffs.
But it might not.

Still a good trade, so the Knicks have SOME kind of depth as they limp towards the playoffs.

And make no mistake. Brunson is awesome and makes this collection of players better than they would be, but the team is now a borderline playoff team, quality wise, until Randle and OG are back, iHart is healthy, and whatever rusty Mitch might be able to contribute, also probably in 4 or 5 weeks.

I'll just accept the fact the Knicks are going to play .400 ball for a while. Reality sucks.

I bet they still play .500+ ball in the meantime. But word.

None of this changes the obvious mistakes.
Going into the season we had NO legitimate backup power forward. Traded Toppin for chump change and didn't look into any Morris brothers, no Taureen Prince, no Jay Crowder, No Christian Wood. Then there are some younger guys out there to.
But we did address it during the Raps trade. The OG trade was perfect. However ...

One we were without Mitch, we know iHart has a chronic achillies injury, and we know our defense is predicated on rim protection. We have TPE's and SRP that we can shed. Drummond, Mosses Brown, etc -- there are players presumed to be available and affordable. We should be and should have been bolstering our depth at the 1 and 5. Burks is a nice piece but is more of a redundancy (Hart, Donte, McBride) than a need. Meanwhile in terms of distributing and shot creating league guards we still have JUST Brunson. At least with Evil Donte we actually had a 2nd point guard on the roster. With Ryan we actually had on paper 3 deep!

The deadline made us basically a paper tiger. We would have been FAR better off trading Fournier with 1 FRP ('24) for Brown and calling it a day.

I'd agree with all that. That's why all the generous ball washing of Leon after the trade seems misplaced.

Good trade. Great he didn't deal picks.
Roster construction still slightly f*cked.

[Fat Kat]

McConnell dropped a big fat Deuce on McBride. Thoroughly outplayed.

I imagine iHart will return first, then OG, then Randle, then Mitch. I am a bit concerned on our ability to get consistent stops with Grimes no longer here to augment OG’s defensive coverage. We may have overcorrected towards offense but that remains to be seen in the playoffs.

Get the 3rd seed then beat Indy, then Cleveland (won’t be easy) then Boston… then whoever comes out of the west and it could be the Mavs believe it or not.

I think IHart will be back Monday, Randle first game after all-star, and then OG and Mitch.

McBride disappointed me. Hopefully it was just an off game. We need him to replace Grimes’ point of attack defense

[knicks94]

Have to always tip my cap to the Indiana Pacers. They are the best run franchinse of the past 30 years to have never won a title.

[Gravy]

Tough loss but at least we got this. Not much worry that Obi will turn into a star without us.

Read on Twitter

[Jesus Juice]

Didn’t read the whole thread.. but here to say Gibson needs to be on the coaching staff.. not expecting our last guy to be starting caliber but Gibson clearly isn’t ready for the run Thibs trusts him to handle.

[RHODEY]

Grimes: Afraid to shoot
Burks: Knicks fans afraid he'll never stop shooting

As long as he continues to do it efficiently, there's nothing to fear

[louisorr]

Have to always tip my cap to the Indiana Pacers. They are the best run franchinse of the past 30 years to have never won a title.

It helps when the dumbest team in sports (SAC) hands you a superANNOYINGstar.