Per Shams - Sims traded to MIL for Delon Wright

[Clyde_Style]

League quaking in their boots right now at this masterful trade/shoring up of the bench.

Bench is already here, just starting to squeeze those oranges and make some juice

Here, have a Kolek spritzer with a dash of Hukporti

[KnixinSix]

Watch on YouTube

This is our new Elfrid Payton .He's going to get playing time but as a defensive stopper not relied upon as our primary point guard. Hes has played and switched on the Boston duo and given them issues in the past. He's likely playing over Shamet and may eat a bit of Paynes minutes too.

This team scores a bunch but lacks that elite in your face defensive tenacity we have seen in the past when Thibs had the right pieces.

[KnixinSix]

Read on Twitter

I could use the excess fabric in this outfit to make a whole new suit!

[Luv those Knicks]

They simply could have traded the pick if they needed to save money for a KAT trade.

yes they could have...but that is assuming they didn't like Dadiet...they might have liked him and Dunn pretty close but him giving them the 80% reduction probably made there mind up.

Jaylen Wells is probably the only one picked in the 2nd round that might be getting some run with us right now...but thats revisionist history how many people were banging down the door for Jaylen Wells pre draft?

I'm not assuming they didn't like Dadiet. I'm saying it's dumb to pass on talent over a few hundred thousand dollars. I hope that's not the case. It was 20-40% reduction in potential salary for one season. I'm sure they could have made that deal with most rookies if they needed to. We are a winning team that, as of late, many consider a title contender. Not to mention playing in MSG.

To your second point. What does that have to do with anything? We have a FRP not playing at all basically. We have 4 rookies who avg 1.4 mpg combined all season. Thibs gonna Thibs.

This draft discussion is interesting and I would love to know what really went down and what the thinking was, but, at least to me, it's too hard to know. Too many moving parts.

I agree with Mr. Brunson, above that it feels unlikely that NY would have drafted a player they like less to save a few hundred thousand. is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? I have a tough time with that. Not when they could have moved the pick, but at the same time, the draft happens on a clock. You don't really know how things go down, as they sometimes go down against a timer.

A couple points I'd like to make.

1) The standard contract rookies sign is 120% of the recommended slot value. Most teams give the rookie 120% when signing them. There are exceptions, but 120% is standard. Rylan Dunn signed for - 2.5 million and change (120% of the 28th pick slot value for year one). I don't know how common it is to pay less, or if players with agents would outright object, but the Aprons might be a factor with these variations now.

2) The Knicks signed Dadiet to 80%, so he got paid 1.8 and change, 700K less than Dunn. Given how close NY was to the 1st apron when they signed Dadiet on July 5th, maybe that savings, or hoping Dadiet stays in France for a year was the difference. They were right up against the first apron, so mpharris has a point too. I'm not smart enough to run the numbers though.

But If Dunn had been taken with the 25th pick instead of 28, the difference is even bigger. He probably gets 2.7 compared to Dadiet's 1.8. $900 K could have made enough of a difference. Not sure.

But when the picks are made, I think they're just cap holds, not actual salary, probably at 100%, so at the time, no difference, not until they're signed. (Dunn signed July 2, Dadiet July 5). Does the few hundred thousand make a difference? Not at the time of the Bridges trade, but after? Just a few hundred thousand, but maybe, and NY did move one of their first round picks, perhaps to save 2 million and a little bit from the cap.

I still think that they were hoping Dadiet plays a year in Europe, but that's just a guess.

On/around draft day, they signed OGA 5 years 210 and traded Bogs and lots of future picks for Bridges (other players were involved) And when this goes down, NY still hoped to resign Hartenstein, who signed with OKC a few days later.

Towns doesn't happen for till like 3 month later, but being under the cap to sign Bridges was important and they signed OG to about the highest they could while staying below the first apron (at the time).

So they did have to move a pick to get Bridges done. Did they have to sign Dadiet not Dunn? I find that hard to believe, but it's possible.

Lots of draft day trades, but in they went in with #24, #25 and #38

They came out with #25, #34, #56 and #58.

56 and 58 are easy to figure out. They wanted some 2nd rounders to sign 2 way deals with. End of the bench depth and cheap roster spots. They traded back for those 2 picks, apparantly either not worried about the guys they liked still being there, or not worried about who they ended up with.

#34 is interesting. They sent 3 future 2nd to draft Kolek and they were very clear that Kolek was their guy. By taking him in the 2nd round, that reduced his cap hit, though they later signed him for close to first round money a week later. (after losing I-hart). The limited number of two-way contracts might have been a factor to giving Kolek a full contract as well and I think, signing him in the 2nd round means his contract doesn't go up as fast as a first round players does.

And trading the #24 pick, not only got them a bunch of future 2nds, but it reduced their cap.

So MJharris is right. They were right up against the cap and counting their limited cap space very closely, but I think Brunson is right too. They could have simply moved both first round picks if that was that much of an issue. I think you're both making good points. Exactly what they did and why is hard to know for sure. Too much math.

Draft night and June 26-27 was such a circus for NY. OGA played hardball with them and maybe Philly steals him if they didn't offer him 5-210.

So OGA exended / Bridges traded for around/on draft night.

Circus of trades - draft night. At this point, they're still under the first Apron. Bridges trade doesn't happen if they go past the first apron.

I-Hart was lost July 1
Dadiet & Kokek were signed around July 5 (starting at 1.8 and 2.1)
Payne was signed a few weeks later (July 15th) for 3.1 million.
Precious was re-signed a few weeks after that (July 30th) for 6 million.

I'm not certain, but maybe Sims was guaranteed at some point - but that might have been a given all along.

and I think that was it for their moves until they traded for KAT early October. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't sign Dunn if they'd wanted him, but they were able to sign Payne and Precious for significantly more and still make the KAT trade work.

It's worth pointing out that they were under the first apron when they traded for Bridges but over the first, under the 2nd when they traded for KAT. . . . if anyone cares about such things.

This was a deeper dive than anyone probably wanted, but I find this apron stuff, and staying below it, pretty interesting and it's really important as far as making trades goes.

and if I got anything wrong, I welcome correction.

[KnixinSix]

yes they could have...but that is assuming they didn't like Dadiet...they might have liked him and Dunn pretty close but him giving them the 80% reduction probably made there mind up.

Jaylen Wells is probably the only one picked in the 2nd round that might be getting some run with us right now...but thats revisionist history how many people were banging down the door for Jaylen Wells pre draft?

I'm not assuming they didn't like Dadiet. I'm saying it's dumb to pass on talent over a few hundred thousand dollars. I hope that's not the case. It was 20-40% reduction in potential salary for one season. I'm sure they could have made that deal with most rookies if they needed to. We are a winning team that, as of late, many consider a title contender. Not to mention playing in MSG.

To your second point. What does that have to do with anything? We have a FRP not playing at all basically. We have 4 rookies who avg 1.4 mpg combined all season. Thibs gonna Thibs.

This draft discussion is interesting and I would love to know what really went down and what the thinking was, but, at least to me, it's too hard to know. Too many moving parts.

I agree with Mr. Brunson, above that it feels unlikely that NY would have drafted a player they like less to save a few hundred thousand. is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? I have a tough time with that. Not when they could have moved the pick, but at the same time, the draft happens on a clock. You don't really know how things go down, as they sometimes go down against a timer.

A couple points I'd like to make.

1) The standard contract rookies sign is 120% of the recommended slot value. Most teams give the rookie 120% when signing them. There are exceptions, but 120% is standard. Rylan Dunn signed for - 2.5 million and change (120% of the 28th pick slot value for year one). I don't know how common it is to pay less, or if players with agents would outright object, but the Aprons might be a factor with these variations now.

2) The Knicks signed Dadiet to 80%, so he got paid 1.8 and change, 700K less than Dunn. Given how close NY was to the 1st apron when they signed Dadiet on July 5th, maybe that savings, or hoping Dadiet stays in France for a year was the difference. They were right up against the first apron, so mpharris has a point too. I'm not smart enough to run the numbers though.

But If Dunn had been taken with the 25th pick instead of 28, the difference is even bigger. He probably gets 2.7 compared to Dadiet's 1.8. $900 K could have made enough of a difference. Not sure.

But when the picks are made, I think they're just cap holds, not actual salary, probably at 100%, so at the time, no difference, not until they're signed. (Dunn signed July 2, Dadiet July 5). Does the few hundred thousand make a difference? Not at the time of the Bridges trade, but after? Just a few hundred thousand, but maybe, and NY did move one of their first round picks, perhaps to save 2 million and a little bit from the cap.

I still think that they were hoping Dadiet plays a year in Europe, but that's just a guess.

On/around draft day, they signed OGA 5 years 210 and traded Bogs and lots of future picks for Bridges (other players were involved) And when this goes down, NY still hoped to resign Hartenstein, who signed with OKC a few days later.

Towns doesn't happen for till like 3 month later, but being under the cap to sign Bridges was important and they signed OG to about the highest they could while staying below the first apron (at the time).

So they did have to move a pick to get Bridges done. Did they have to sign Dadiet not Dunn? I find that hard to believe, but it's possible.

Lots of draft day trades, but in they went in with #24, #25 and #38

They came out with #25, #34, #56 and #58.

56 and 58 are easy to figure out. They wanted some 2nd rounders to sign 2 way deals with. End of the bench depth and cheap roster spots. They traded back for those 2 picks, apparantly either not worried about the guys they liked still being there, or not worried about who they ended up with.

#34 is interesting. They sent 3 future 2nd to draft Kolek and they were very clear that Kolek was their guy. By taking him in the 2nd round, that reduced his cap hit, though they later signed him for close to first round money a week later. (after losing I-hart). The limited number of two-way contracts might have been a factor to giving Kolek a full contract as well and I think, signing him in the 2nd round means his contract doesn't go up as fast as a first round players does.

And trading the #24 pick, not only got them a bunch of future 2nds, but it reduced their cap.

So MJharris is right. They were right up against the cap and counting their limited cap space very closely, but I think Brunson is right too. They could have simply moved both first round picks if that was that much of an issue. I think you're both making good points. Exactly what they did and why is hard to know for sure. Too much math.

Draft night and June 26-27 was such a circus for NY. OGA played hardball with them and maybe Philly steals him if they didn't offer him 5-210.

So OGA exended / Bridges traded for around/on draft night.

Circus of trades - draft night. At this point, they're still under the first Apron. Bridges trade doesn't happen if they go past the first apron.

I-Hart was lost July 1
Dadiet & Kokek were signed around July 5 (starting at 1.8 and 2.1)
Payne was signed a few weeks later (July 15th) for 3.1 million.
Precious was re-signed a few weeks after that (July 30th) for 6 million.

I'm not certain, but maybe Sims was guaranteed at some point - but that might have been a given all along.

and I think that was it for their moves until they traded for KAT early October. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't sign Dunn if they'd wanted him, but they were able to sign Payne and Precious for significantly more and still make the KAT trade work.

It's worth pointing out that they were under the first apron when they traded for Bridges but over the first, under the 2nd when they traded for KAT. . . . if anyone cares about such things.

This was a deeper dive than anyone probably wanted, but I find this apron stuff, and staying below it, pretty interesting and it's really important as far as making trades goes.

and if I got anything wrong, I welcome correction.

New CBA math is ridiculous and overcomplicated.

But it may also be why we ended up with Towns. Maybe Minny would have kept him under the old CBA. But like I had been saying for months if we ended up with KAT its because Minny wouldn't want to have to deal with his 50M while also paying bith Edwards and Goebert over 40M.

[kane]

Watch on YouTube

This is our new Elfrid Payton .He's going to get playing time but as a defensive stopper not relied upon as our primary point guard. Hes has played and switched on the Boston duo and given them issues in the past. He's likely playing over Shamet and may eat a bit of Paynes minutes too.

This team scores a bunch but lacks that elite in your face defensive tenacity we have seen in the past when Thibs had the right pieces.

i know its a highlight reel but if he can bring that type of heat on the defense end that trade was a winner, sick of the starters going out and by the time they come back in they are now in the hole by 20

[Phish Tank]

Delon Wright has one month to cement a spot in the rotation before TJ Warren seizes it from him on March 1st.

[KnixinSix]

Watch on YouTube

This is our new Elfrid Payton .He's going to get playing time but as a defensive stopper not relied upon as our primary point guard. Hes has played and switched on the Boston duo and given them issues in the past. He's likely playing over Shamet and may eat a bit of Paynes minutes too.

This team scores a bunch but lacks that elite in your face defensive tenacity we have seen in the past when Thibs had the right pieces.

i know its a highlight reel but if he can bring that type of heat on the defense end that trade was a winner, sick of the starters going out and by the time they come back in they are now in the hole by 20

Wright is a blanket on defense. I like the fit for him here. We have plenty of offense to make up for his lack of it around him.

[Luv those Knicks]

New CBA math is ridiculous and overcomplicated.

But it may also be why we ended up with Towns. Maybe Minny would have kept him under the old CBA. But like I had been saying for months if we ended up with KAT its because Minny wouldn't want to have to deal with his 50M while also paying bith Edwards and Goebert over 40M.

100% it's why we got KAT, or at least why Mini traded him. I can't help but wonder if our offer was the best offer they could have gotten though, but the trade didn't happen till October, so they had lots of time to discuss with other teams. It's strange to think that KAT, good as he is, was a guy not many teams were willing to pay a good price for.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

I could use the excess fabric in this outfit to make a whole new suit!

boxy boys!

[spree8]

Delon Wright has one month to cement a spot in the rotation before TJ Warren seizes it from him on March 1st.

I don’t see that being an issue. TJ’s not close in terms of defense, and Delon can shoot well from 3 despite whatever happened in Milwaukee those 25 games.

Also rather have the ball in his hands coming up court than Cam’s who’s 50% likely to just bomb a half court 3 and give Thibs a heart arrhythmia

[thebuzzardman]

I could use the excess fabric in this outfit to make a whole new suit!

boxy boys!

Like a gangster in Triplets of Bellville

[BowlRips]

yes they could have...but that is assuming they didn't like Dadiet...they might have liked him and Dunn pretty close but him giving them the 80% reduction probably made there mind up.

Jaylen Wells is probably the only one picked in the 2nd round that might be getting some run with us right now...but thats revisionist history how many people were banging down the door for Jaylen Wells pre draft?

I'm not assuming they didn't like Dadiet. I'm saying it's dumb to pass on talent over a few hundred thousand dollars. I hope that's not the case. It was 20-40% reduction in potential salary for one season. I'm sure they could have made that deal with most rookies if they needed to. We are a winning team that, as of late, many consider a title contender. Not to mention playing in MSG.

To your second point. What does that have to do with anything? We have a FRP not playing at all basically. We have 4 rookies who avg 1.4 mpg combined all season. Thibs gonna Thibs.

This draft discussion is interesting and I would love to know what really went down and what the thinking was, but, at least to me, it's too hard to know. Too many moving parts.

I agree with Mr. Brunson, above that it feels unlikely that NY would have drafted a player they like less to save a few hundred thousand. is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? I have a tough time with that. Not when they could have moved the pick, but at the same time, the draft happens on a clock. You don't really know how things go down, as they sometimes go down against a timer.

A couple points I'd like to make.

1) The standard contract rookies sign is 120% of the recommended slot value. Most teams give the rookie 120% when signing them. There are exceptions, but 120% is standard. Rylan Dunn signed for - 2.5 million and change (120% of the 28th pick slot value for year one). I don't know how common it is to pay less, or if players with agents would outright object, but the Aprons might be a factor with these variations now.

2) The Knicks signed Dadiet to 80%, so he got paid 1.8 and change, 700K less than Dunn. Given how close NY was to the 1st apron when they signed Dadiet on July 5th, maybe that savings, or hoping Dadiet stays in France for a year was the difference. They were right up against the first apron, so mpharris has a point too. I'm not smart enough to run the numbers though.

But If Dunn had been taken with the 25th pick instead of 28, the difference is even bigger. He probably gets 2.7 compared to Dadiet's 1.8. $900 K could have made enough of a difference. Not sure.

But when the picks are made, I think they're just cap holds, not actual salary, probably at 100%, so at the time, no difference, not until they're signed. (Dunn signed July 2, Dadiet July 5). Does the few hundred thousand make a difference? Not at the time of the Bridges trade, but after? Just a few hundred thousand, but maybe, and NY did move one of their first round picks, perhaps to save 2 million and a little bit from the cap.

I still think that they were hoping Dadiet plays a year in Europe, but that's just a guess.

On/around draft day, they signed OGA 5 years 210 and traded Bogs and lots of future picks for Bridges (other players were involved) And when this goes down, NY still hoped to resign Hartenstein, who signed with OKC a few days later.

Towns doesn't happen for till like 3 month later, but being under the cap to sign Bridges was important and they signed OG to about the highest they could while staying below the first apron (at the time).

So they did have to move a pick to get Bridges done. Did they have to sign Dadiet not Dunn? I find that hard to believe, but it's possible.

Lots of draft day trades, but in they went in with #24, #25 and #38

They came out with #25, #34, #56 and #58.

56 and 58 are easy to figure out. They wanted some 2nd rounders to sign 2 way deals with. End of the bench depth and cheap roster spots. They traded back for those 2 picks, apparantly either not worried about the guys they liked still being there, or not worried about who they ended up with.

#34 is interesting. They sent 3 future 2nd to draft Kolek and they were very clear that Kolek was their guy. By taking him in the 2nd round, that reduced his cap hit, though they later signed him for close to first round money a week later. (after losing I-hart). The limited number of two-way contracts might have been a factor to giving Kolek a full contract as well and I think, signing him in the 2nd round means his contract doesn't go up as fast as a first round players does.

And trading the #24 pick, not only got them a bunch of future 2nds, but it reduced their cap.

So MJharris is right. They were right up against the cap and counting their limited cap space very closely, but I think Brunson is right too. They could have simply moved both first round picks if that was that much of an issue. I think you're both making good points. Exactly what they did and why is hard to know for sure. Too much math.

Draft night and June 26-27 was such a circus for NY. OGA played hardball with them and maybe Philly steals him if they didn't offer him 5-210.

So OGA exended / Bridges traded for around/on draft night.

Circus of trades - draft night. At this point, they're still under the first Apron. Bridges trade doesn't happen if they go past the first apron.

I-Hart was lost July 1
Dadiet & Kokek were signed around July 5 (starting at 1.8 and 2.1)
Payne was signed a few weeks later (July 15th) for 3.1 million.
Precious was re-signed a few weeks after that (July 30th) for 6 million.

I'm not certain, but maybe Sims was guaranteed at some point - but that might have been a given all along.

and I think that was it for their moves until they traded for KAT early October. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't sign Dunn if they'd wanted him, but they were able to sign Payne and Precious for significantly more and still make the KAT trade work.

It's worth pointing out that they were under the first apron when they traded for Bridges but over the first, under the 2nd when they traded for KAT. . . . if anyone cares about such things.

This was a deeper dive than anyone probably wanted, but I find this apron stuff, and staying below it, pretty interesting and it's really important as far as making trades goes.

and if I got anything wrong, I welcome correction.

Well said.
I think realistically they shouldve punted the draft pick for a future pick that theyve done in previous years.
Would have give them more breathing room and a better asset in the future.

[spree2kawhi]

I mean, fwiw, he’s been a good shooter, at least better than Randle throughout his career.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Luv those Knicks]

I think realistically they shouldve punted the draft pick for a future pick that theyve done in previous years.
Would have give them more breathing room and a better asset in the future.

It's impossible to know, but I still think when they picked Dadiet, they hoped they could talk him into staying in France for a year or maybe two. I know I'm repeating myself by saying that, but that would explain not trading the pick, though, they were still under the first apron (barely) with the Dadiet pick, so trading the pick wasn't essential. And for the number crunchers, Dadiet actually makes less than the vet minimum, so that extra 200 K might have been a factor. Again, not sure. Kolek basically makes the vet minimum this year, which is kind of interesting.

By waiting for Round 2 to draft Kolek, he's under contract for 3 years with a team option for the 4th year, making 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 and 2.5 (team option).

Dadiet, first round pick, has a different structure. First 2 years are guaranteed, then 2 team options. 1.8, 2.8, 2.9 (team option), 5.3 (team option). Dadiet's 2.8 is tradable this summer, so I guess we'll see how they value him. I think he's a keeper, but I'm a fan. That said, in 2 years maybe they explore trades rather than extensions for those two, but we'll cross that bridge when the fat lady sings, or whatever the saying is. That's what they did with Grimes (kind of), IQ and Sims. They traded them rather than extending them. They extended McBride early and they could do a similar extension for Huk next year if they believe in him, and possibly explore a Mitch trade this summer, but again, time will tell.

With only so much room to play with, I'm sure that their numbers guru (don't remember his name) looks at every contract very closely.

When Dadiet said he wanted to come over, they could have traded him, but instead they signed him at 80% of the draft pick value and I think they could have traded him as an unsigned pick, but once signed, I think the first round picks are locked in for several months and can't be traded.

I think, Dadiet has a shot at being another 2-way wing, given some time, so maybe they liked him all along and they might have valued him higher than a future first, but again - pure speculation. I think, right now, he's got more value than a future first in the range that they could have traded for.

anyway . . . mostly speculation. Kind of all over the place, but I think this numbers stuff is interesting. It's a big part of team building now.

[WaltFrazier]

I liked Delon in Toronto. He missed out on a ring when he was traded along with JV for Marc Gasol in 2019.

[Clyde_Style]

Watch on YouTube

This is our new Elfrid Payton .He's going to get playing time but as a defensive stopper not relied upon as our primary point guard. Hes has played and switched on the Boston duo and given them issues in the past. He's likely playing over Shamet and may eat a bit of Paynes minutes too.

This team scores a bunch but lacks that elite in your face defensive tenacity we have seen in the past when Thibs had the right pieces.

i know its a highlight reel but if he can bring that type of heat on the defense end that trade was a winner, sick of the starters going out and by the time they come back in they are now in the hole by 20

Wright is a blanket on defense. I like the fit for him here. We have plenty of offense to make up for his lack of it around him.

From that compilation he looks like a guy who gets around screens and can't be easily shed by his assignment. Good on ball man defenders can have value even in spot minutes. Could see a guy like this with Deuce for short stretches to slow down the other team's POA.

[KnixinSix]

i know its a highlight reel but if he can bring that type of heat on the defense end that trade was a winner, sick of the starters going out and by the time they come back in they are now in the hole by 20

Wright is a blanket on defense. I like the fit for him here. We have plenty of offense to make up for his lack of it around him.

From that compilation he looks like a guy who gets around screens and can't be easily shed by his assignment. Good on ball man defenders can have value even in spot minutes. Could see a guy like this with Deuce for short stretches to slow down the other team's POA.

A potential Thibs defensive chess piece. He'll get utilized strategically

[Jalen Bluntson]

Wright is a blanket on defense. I like the fit for him here. We have plenty of offense to make up for his lack of it around him.

From that compilation he looks like a guy who gets around screens and can't be easily shed by his assignment. Good on ball man defenders can have value even in spot minutes. Could see a guy like this with Deuce for short stretches to slow down the other team's POA.

A potential Thibs defensive chess piece. He'll get utilized strategically

Another depth piece. Him and TJ may end up with situational minutes if Thibs likes them. It's better depth than Sims if Wright is a true lock down defender. Warren can score and adds length. Hope he's a better defender than Fournier was. Yes. I'm calling it now. Like I have been saying for months, TJ will be here in March.

Can Wright run an offense?