Knicks Core vs. Nets Core

[NyKnicks1714]

There's a big big difference between Devin Harris and Stephon Marbury, and that's ATTITUDE. Harris listens to coaches, isn't a cancer, and he does what's asked of him. He's not a real pg, definitely not, but you can't criticize someone for that. It's not like he's going around saying "I'm a true point guard", and I don't think there's anyone who thinks he is.

Scoring pg's can be successful, and can be on winning teams. The best example of this is Tony Parker. He might have an edge over Harris when it comes to pg ability, but it's small. (I'm not saying Harris is better than or equal to Tony Parker)

Harris dominates the ball because, as of right now, he has to. When more talent is added to his team, he will be asked to defer more and he'll oblige.

[cgf]

this thread should be published as a book and put in the comedy section at your local barnes and nobles. The homerism here is worse then the rators:lol:

No worse than any nets fan claiming Devin Harris to be point guard, or that he's anything but a taller nate robinson for that matter.

so im assuming Nate has never made the all star game due to his height? Nate=Harris but shorter has to be the funniest thing next to Lopez being just a little bit better then that Small Foward you have playing at Center. There is a reason that anybody would agree that the Nets have everything better going for them except blind knick fans. It is not just the General Board that would agree with this. I mean the Knicks may have a lottery pick this year....wait no i forgot.

Like Harris deserved that allstar birth. The man is not a point guard, nor is he an exceptional enough scorer to carry team, so what exactly is he good for? Oh yeah, putting up numbers. Sweet, as a knicks fan we've seen a lot of those guys, and yeah those guys aren't very good. But if you can't understand how being even 6'3" would make Nate a starter on many teams who'd put up the same empty numbers devin Harris does, well then we have a fundamental disagreement on what it takes to be a good basketball player.

Again I think your core is more proven and thus clearly deserves the nod at the moment, I just hate this misconception that Harris is somehow a star player or is likely to ever become one. You guys have a nice young core, but if both cores develop to their potential I like Douglas, Chandler, Gallo and Hill more than I do Harris, Twill, Lee and Lopez, I ignore CDR because I don't think he'll ever be starting caliber, just like I ignored nate and lee for us.

[cgf]

There's a big big difference between Devin Harris and Stephon Marbury, and that's ATTITUDE. Harris listens to coaches, isn't a cancer, and he does what's asked of him. He's not a real pg, definitely not, but you can't criticize someone for that. It's not like he's going around saying "I'm a true point guard", and I don't think there's anyone who thinks he is.

Scoring pg's can be successful, and can be on winning teams. The best example of this is Tony Parker. He might have an edge over Harris when it comes to pg ability, but it's small. (I'm not saying Harris is better than or equal to Tony Parker)

Harris dominates the ball because, as of right now, he has to. When more talent is added to his team, he will be asked to defer more and he'll oblige.

But how effective is Harris going to be with the ball spending less time in his hands? In my eyes he's a guy who needs the ball to be effective. As for tony Parker, he plays with one of the best players in the league, and easily the best big man in the league, which lets him fill more of a scoring role. If Harris had that could he be a star? Sure, but so could nate or crawful.

[kane2021]

Thanks for the shouts guys.

[NyKnicks1714]

There's a big big difference between Devin Harris and Stephon Marbury, and that's ATTITUDE. Harris listens to coaches, isn't a cancer, and he does what's asked of him. He's not a real pg, definitely not, but you can't criticize someone for that. It's not like he's going around saying "I'm a true point guard", and I don't think there's anyone who thinks he is.

Scoring pg's can be successful, and can be on winning teams. The best example of this is Tony Parker. He might have an edge over Harris when it comes to pg ability, but it's small. (I'm not saying Harris is better than or equal to Tony Parker)

Harris dominates the ball because, as of right now, he has to. When more talent is added to his team, he will be asked to defer more and he'll oblige.

But how effective is Harris going to be with the ball spending less time in his hands? In my eyes he's a guy who needs the ball to be effective. As for tony Parker, he plays with one of the best players in the league, and easily the best big man in the league, which lets him fill more of a scoring role. If Harris had that could he be a star? Sure, but so could nate or crawful.

He'd make a good 2nd option offensively. I love what he brings on the other end of the floor too. I talked about the Nate comparison earlier in this thread. They shoot similar %'s, but Harris is far more agressive in attacking the rim, getting to the line, and that makes him a considerably more efficient player. Harris has a big edge defensively over Nate too, especially since he can guard 2's.

[cgf]

There's a big big difference between Devin Harris and Stephon Marbury, and that's ATTITUDE. Harris listens to coaches, isn't a cancer, and he does what's asked of him. He's not a real pg, definitely not, but you can't criticize someone for that. It's not like he's going around saying "I'm a true point guard", and I don't think there's anyone who thinks he is.

Scoring pg's can be successful, and can be on winning teams. The best example of this is Tony Parker. He might have an edge over Harris when it comes to pg ability, but it's small. (I'm not saying Harris is better than or equal to Tony Parker)

Harris dominates the ball because, as of right now, he has to. When more talent is added to his team, he will be asked to defer more and he'll oblige.

But how effective is Harris going to be with the ball spending less time in his hands? In my eyes he's a guy who needs the ball to be effective. As for tony Parker, he plays with one of the best players in the league, and easily the best big man in the league, which lets him fill more of a scoring role. If Harris had that could he be a star? Sure, but so could nate or crawful.

He'd make a good 2nd option offensively. I love what he brings on the other end of the floor too. I talked about the Nate comparison earlier in this thread. They shoot similar %'s, but Harris is far more agressive in attacking the rim, getting to the line, and that makes him a considerably more efficient player. Harris has a big edge defensively over Nate too, especially since he can guard 2's.

Harris clearly has a defensive edge on nate but offensively I don't think the difference between the two of them is that significant and I don't like either as a number 2 option who's depended to score efficiently on a consistent basis. I like both more as a third option who explodes every now and then but in general isn't leaned on heavily.

[K_ick_God]

There's a big big difference between Devin Harris and Stephon Marbury, and that's ATTITUDE. Harris listens to coaches, isn't a cancer, and he does what's asked of him. He's not a real pg, definitely not, but you can't criticize someone for that. It's not like he's going around saying "I'm a true point guard", and I don't think there's anyone who thinks he is.

Scoring pg's can be successful, and can be on winning teams. The best example of this is Tony Parker. He might have an edge over Harris when it comes to pg ability, but it's small. (I'm not saying Harris is better than or equal to Tony Parker)

Harris dominates the ball because, as of right now, he has to. When more talent is added to his team, he will be asked to defer more and he'll oblige.

It's a fair point that Harris is not remotely the cancer that Marbury was. I don't think he is at all in fact. But that still doesn't make him a good point guard. You *need* a point guard to run the show -- not a shoot-first PG who can't shoot 3's and has a low FG%. And while he's not a bad influence, I don't think Harris is going to be as deferential sharing the ball as you say. He likes getting a lot of shots.

I disagree that Devin is good enough to be a second option on a great team. Next to LeBron, Mo Williams is the better fit (both not pure points but Mo shoots, Devin drives) -- the jumper is more important next to LeBron. But we saw how well Mo as a second scorer worked last season in the playoffs. My problem with Devin is that he's a third scorer but it's not ideal to have your third scorer be a non-pure PG who is not a ball mover or shooter. He's neither. I believe that Thorn will see this and correctly diagnose the situation, then mar-bury Harris and make a sequel to the Jason Kidd trade. He'll deal Harris for _________ sometime in the next couple seasons.

[Rockice_8]

Harris has the ability to defer he's done it before when he was in Dallas. He played lock down D and ran the offense. Now he's being asked to score with the Nets because they don't have many scorers. Why all the hate on Harris not being a passer he was 11 in the league last year in apg w/7. If he wasn't asked to score as much he'd be closer to 9-10 apg. It's pure hate saying that a guy trying to help his team win makes him a selfish player by not passing as much. He has every bit of defensive ability that your so called lock down defender TD has. TD was the ACC top scorer last year and set records at Florida State for scoring so can I say that he's an undersized SG. No because he did what his team needed to help them win. The Knicks need a pass first point and thats what he's gonna try to be. If Harris had was able to the 3rd or 4th scoring option on the Nets it's just plain ignorant to say that he could be more of a pass first point because he's defered before but right now he's the number 1 option.

[Rockice_8]

KnicksGod

Mo Williams was garbage in the playoffs last year thats why they weren't in the finals. Give me Harris over Mo anyday of the week.

[K_ick_God]

KnicksGod

Mo Williams was garbage in the playoffs last year thats why they weren't in the finals. Give me Harris over Mo anyday of the week.

I think Harris and Mo are comparable in impact with different attacks. Next to LeBron, I believe a shooter is a better fit than a driver, which LeBron pretty much can cover all by himself (with enough go around for two or three teams in fact).

But I think they're both good third scorers. Mediocre second options. Devin's a better defender for sure. I'm not someone who loves the fact that 3-point shooting is such an important facet of the game, but I think without it, you are giving up a lot. You need the 3-ball from your guards to stretch, and I think that's even more important for LeBron. I honestly think that Devin would be a rather odd fit next to LeBron.

[stuporman]

Since when is flopping taking a charge 'lock down D'? The guy has never been able to stop anyone from scoring, he just gets in front from time to time and flops like a fish trying to draw a charge. That's not lock down D!

[bringinhinkie]

i dont see why the focus is all on harris.. of both teams, he atm has got to be considered the most superior of all young players, but that doesn't mean the nets have a better core..

danillo, hill, cdr, and terrence williams obviously havent gotten a fair opportunity to show their worth so the jury is still out on them..

idc what anyone says, ill take lee over brook any day, idc what position he plays or how much taller he is, lee has shown consistent improvement every year and just led the league in double doubles (16/12 per game).. he is also an improving passer and shooter and a better finisher than brook around the basket.. just because the league is decimated when it comes to centers, doesn't mean the first decent center prospect is all the sudden a stud and on the verge of stardom.. i watched him in school and the nba, my opinion is he has little room for improvement as he is limited athletically and already is very polished in several areas a center should excel in, i just dont see it improving to an all star level.. you dont like my opinion, deal with it i really dont care.. and im not alone, if scouts thought he had a great deal of potential, hed have gone top 3, not late lottery.. he is what he is, a safe pick who will have a solid 15/10 type peak with decent defense and be a 3rd option, 2nd at best on a bad team (like he is now)..

harris>nate .. both have similarities, both are also prone to empty stats, but harris is more efficient, consistent, and the far superior defender

c. lee to nate is arguable.. nate put up superior numbers and is the better playmaker while lee is a very good defender and does not contain the baggage that comes with nate (playing out of control, techs, inconsistent on both ends, etc).. though lee is just a sohpomore, so id give the advantage to him in terms of who a gm would rather have..

chandler to yi is obviously chandler

also the jury is still out on douglas, i mean the dude has yet to play an nba game

i just dont know how you could really say whose you prefer without ever letting 3 of the guys even step on the court in a season game (hill/douglas/twill), and 2 of the guys barely seeing action their rookie year (danillo/cdr)

also msg sh*ts on every arena, let alone one that doesnt even exist and maybe never will.. not to mention if it does exist it is years away and the summer of 2010 is under a year away..

i will say this:

of the more proven commodities.. d.lee/nate/will vs harris/lopez/c.lee/yi -most gm's would take the nets, prolly every gm.. as far as the other guys, who knows, every team likes their prospects better than others.. danillo could be an all star, he could be a scrub.. same with terrence williams.. douglas could be that annual steal who turns out to be a stud or he could be that guy who was a star in college but gm's knew it wouldnt translate, and it didnt.. same exact scenario with cdr- star in college, picked late in the draft..

[j4remi]

Harris has the ability to defer he's done it before when he was in Dallas. He played lock down D and ran the offense. Now he's being asked to score with the Nets because they don't have many scorers. Why all the hate on Harris not being a passer he was 11 in the league last year in apg w/7. If he wasn't asked to score as much he'd be closer to 9-10 apg. It's pure hate saying that a guy trying to help his team win makes him a selfish player by not passing as much. He has every bit of defensive ability that your so called lock down defender TD has. TD was the ACC top scorer last year and set records at Florida State for scoring so can I say that he's an undersized SG. No because he did what his team needed to help them win. The Knicks need a pass first point and thats what he's gonna try to be. If Harris had was able to the 3rd or 4th scoring option on the Nets it's just plain ignorant to say that he could be more of a pass first point because he's defered before but right now he's the number 1 option.

No disrespect, you've come into this thread with solid logic and reason on all your comments rather than most of the Nets fans who come in and basically post what amounts to "rabble rabble rabble, we're better, rabble rabble rabble, their...takin' our jobs!"

Devin Harris does not and never has looked like a floor general. Throughout his career, he's been in a position to defer to better offensive players who make the offense go round. I'm a huge VC fan and think his impact will be sorely missed. On Dallas, Devin Harris did pass more but he was also not a very serious prospect to anyone. He was pretty much a what you see is what you get, run the play and pass to Dirk. He doesn't exhibit certain qualities that great PG's MUST have. Last year he was on a team with Vince Carter and Lopez, whom Nets fans praise to high heavens...but he still lead that team to a piss poor record. The assist stat is comparable to numbers that Steph and Iverson have averaged at points in their careers, and neither could be more effective if they deferred. So Devin Harris can and has deferred but that won't make him more effective, it will just take away from his numbers.

You're talking to a tough crowd and Harris' selling points are all things we've seen and doubted before. There are people on this board who absolutely crushed Derrick Rose and anointed him Marbury 2.0, and Rose actually plays a similar game to Harris but more effectively. Stat heads will look at me sideways and point to the numbers that clearly go to Harris, but I'll say watch the two play. Rose takes over when he has to and does what he needs to in crunch time. Harris at times seems to force the issue or lose control of games. Rose was on a playoff team because he's already got certain qualities that just ooze with "winning player." Harris simply doesn't in my book.

This year, without VC, that team is going to struggle mightily. Harris has to be the leader and not just in the numbers. So he can do a lot to change my mind, but I don't think he can. As others have said, he's a good third option. He's also not a fit with Bron at all, aside from playing good defense.

P.S. I think TD will be a better defender than Harris by his third season, but that's based on how much of a beast he was in college and his demeanor on the court...so it's kind of a feeling thing.

[TKF]

Devin Harris is 27 years old.= Not a prospect.

Devin Harris was the PG of a mavs team that was title contenders with a MVP talent in Dirk. They had a 6th man of the year talent. And I feel they handed the miami heat that title.

Putting my knick fan hood aside, I find it concerning that a 27 year old veteran PG cannot lead such a fine young core to the playoffs. Add to the fact that they do have a pretty good young center. 1+5=playoffs, no?

Devin Harris is a grown man. But does he act that way? Does he look like a 27 year old PG?





I can make mention of some other PG's that put up 20-8 type numbers that never amounted to nothing. Didnt the nets have a 20-8 pg once? With a nice young core? They traded him 1 for 1. And became a contender in a weak east. Instantly.

But even THEN. They could not sell that building out. They tried giving away signed jerseys to sell playoffs games. And you could still get a ticket at the window game night!

You cant call on the numbers of a player playing for a bad team. 20-8 on such a bad team is not impressive at all. And he is 27. Its time to lead your team. Derek Rose led his team to the playoffs as a rookie with comparable numbers.

Why? Again Harris is weak. In his heart he is weak. Like Marbury. Like Curry. Like Crawford.

Lopez is tough but is dumb. Like Harrington. Like Z-Bo. Like Chandler.

Lopez and Chandler have plenty of time to gain wisdom. Chandler is gaining that each year. I think Lopez will also. Expect him to hit a wall this season. Then blossom into a very serviceable center. Chandler should become a very serviceable forward with decent all around skills. Both of those players do what there told and do it all the way. Both are very good prospects.

But what is the excuse for Harris? 27 years old with finals experience, he is given the keys to the franchise and dont get no where. And they had vince carter! That guy can out score anyone on either of these teams with one hand. If NY had VC last season do the bulls make the playoffs?

Dont the nets have the same coach that helped lead them to 4 straight years top 3 atlantic?

Im a knick fan and will be the first to tell you we overrate our guys. Look, I even called chandler dumb again. But these fans have 0 patience for that. Put that net team here and they get booed every night. Theres not enough fans in that building to boo. So what are the consequences for poor performance?

The nets are not better because devin harris is a gimmic. And there fans dont push him hard enough. He's not a young boy, and his resume is seasoned, you should demand more.

And BTW, Jay-Z owns such a minuscule percentage of the business venture you might as well call him there number one fan. Spike Lee has spent more money in MSG then has Jay-Z there. It should be viewed as insulting that the nets had to go outside of the country to get financed for there move from a very questionable person while Jay-Z is perpetrating himself as a owner of a NBA franchise stunting on the record as a don. The Don of NY had to get the Don of russia to help him. Thats how I see it, if you consider him a owner and a draw to FA's.

Im a honorable person and wish the nets the best of luck. I would say the same thing about harris if he was a knick. But a fan arguing the nets core should go to the games and boo devin harris. Bring all your friends the tickets are cheap. See if that motivates him. Do yourself a favor and trade him to the wolves.

At this age if Harris cant lift a team out of the basement its safe to say that he cant. Now ask how LBJ views the nets core. Ask a true winner how they view devin harris and his losing team. The nets could sign James and bosh and Harris would be the teams veteran. Thats not promising its sad.

LOL.. wow.. that post was on the money.. had to read it twice!!

[NYKnick87]

Devin Harris = OVERRATED.

I don't care if his TS% is great or whatever, because all he does to boost his percentage is make a bee line to the basket to get to the line. Sure, that may make him an efficient scorer, but it takes away from the overall team offense. This guy is a scorer, not a pg, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that I would prefer a more traditional PG running the team than one that focuses on scoring first. He's a quality player, but overrated nonetheless. Plus, he really only had like 2 good months on the season...I think everybody fell head over heels for him after the first month of the seasons where he put up ridiculous numbers.

Brook Lopez = Legit

Don't understand why people are knocking him. He's already better than most centers in the league and he's only a sophomore. 13, 8 and 2 in 30 minutes a game for a rookie is no joke. The notion that he won't improve is absurd as well. The guy is the same age as Gallo. He brings to the table defense, low post scoring, and an excellent understanding of the game.

[Thorn]

Devin Harris = OVERRATED.

I don't care if his TS% is great or whatever, because all he does to boost his percentage is make a bee line to the basket to get to the line. Sure, that may make him an efficient scorer, but it takes away from the overall team offense. This guy is a scorer, not a pg, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that I would prefer a more traditional PG running the team than one that focuses on scoring first. He's a quality player, but overrated nonetheless. Plus, he really only had like 2 good months on the season...I think everybody fell head over heels for him after the first month of the seasons where he put up ridiculous numbers.

Brook Lopez = Legit

Don't understand why people are knocking him. He's already better than most centers in the league and he's only a sophomore. 13, 8 and 2 in 30 minutes a game for a rookie is no joke. The notion that he won't improve is absurd as well. The guy is the same age as Gallo. He brings to the table defense, low post scoring, and an excellent understanding of the game.

First I am taking our young core over theirs any day, as I am record as saying this is my team and I am rolling with it. Even putting that aside and removing fandom I see more promise to our future than I do to theirs.

Do they have some bright spots? They sure do Lopez is the biggest one, CDR has potential and so do a couple others but the Knicks other than the guys not playing ALL have potential and upside with room for growth and development. As well as being a superior team here and now.

Harris... no thanks I wouldn't want him on my team.

[NYKnick87]

Devin Harris = OVERRATED.

I don't care if his TS% is great or whatever, because all he does to boost his percentage is make a bee line to the basket to get to the line. Sure, that may make him an efficient scorer, but it takes away from the overall team offense. This guy is a scorer, not a pg, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just that I would prefer a more traditional PG running the team than one that focuses on scoring first. He's a quality player, but overrated nonetheless. Plus, he really only had like 2 good months on the season...I think everybody fell head over heels for him after the first month of the seasons where he put up ridiculous numbers.

Brook Lopez = Legit

Don't understand why people are knocking him. He's already better than most centers in the league and he's only a sophomore. 13, 8 and 2 in 30 minutes a game for a rookie is no joke. The notion that he won't improve is absurd as well. The guy is the same age as Gallo. He brings to the table defense, low post scoring, and an excellent understanding of the game.

First I am taking our young core over theirs any day, as I am record as saying this is my team and I am rolling with it. Even putting that aside and removing fandom I see more promise to our future than I do to theirs.

No, I agree. I understand where the criticism for Harris is coming from, but not so with Lopez.

[stuporman]

I'd take half and half.

C- Lopez
PF- Gallo
SF- Chandler
SG- CLee
PG- Douglas

[Thorn]

I'd take half and half.

C- Lopez
PF- Gallo
SF- Chandler
SG- CLee
PG- Douglas

[yungal07]

Harris is what Nate Robinson would be if he was 7 inches taller, a good defender, and a good decision maker. What's also funny is that the "scorer" Harris averaged 7 assists per game to go along with his 23 points a game.

He's not only better than any Knick point guard, he's better than any Knick player...by alot.