OT: NFL Draft Thread

[mpharris36]

Also bringing up welker and smith is pointless cause 5'8 dudes have been proven to ball. But none have been taken with such a high second rounder at that point it becomes did we get the best value for robinson and I have to say no, as much as I want him to pan out. Smith was drafted in the third. Welker was undrafted. Tyreeke was drafted in the 5th.

So with Robinson it comes down to value of where he was taken.

but the game has also changed. What the league values is different then when those guys were drafted

Smallish QB's would never be taken high years ago. Now height is rarely a factor for QB's. With offensive spreading out and going more horizontal than vertical. Its about getting your playmakers the ball in space and getting it out fast.

still doesn't mean much to me as that does not mean you start drafting them so high. Its basically the same thing with Barkley. We draft hi way to high. Is Barkley good player to have sure, but not where he was picked at.

The Odds of 5'8 WR's being successful is RARE in the NFL which is why people cant name to many people so that means 99% of them are nothing in the League. That to me holds more weight than anything. Again the dude can be drafted but no way can you slice it his value was there.

And regards to whom or what heigh is still a factor for QB, the smaller ones are rarely desirable over the taller ones. Thats a bad point. There is no trend of Tiny WRs being drafted so high my dude.

I mean thats a totally different scenario. A RB should never be picked in the top half of the 1st round (let alone the #2 overall pick). RB have zero positional value. WR are getting paid more and more where you do want cheap productive WR's in your WR room.

Just like centers shouldn't be picked high and safeties shouldn't be picked high either. Especially when you don't have a foundation set.

Top tier positional value are

QB
OT
Edge
CB

and WR is making its way into that group now with what these WR's are getting paid in FA.

The draft is no over so whether he is small or not it all depends if he is productive or not. Schoen at least deserves a year or two until he proves he is not a good drafter. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

[mpharris36]

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[TerrenceClarke]

but the game has also changed. What the league values is different then when those guys were drafted

Smallish QB's would never be taken high years ago. Now height is rarely a factor for QB's. With offensive spreading out and going more horizontal than vertical. Its about getting your playmakers the ball in space and getting it out fast.

still doesn't mean much to me as that does not mean you start drafting them so high. Its basically the same thing with Barkley. We draft hi way to high. Is Barkley good player to have sure, but not where he was picked at.

The Odds of 5'8 WR's being successful is RARE in the NFL which is why people cant name to many people so that means 99% of them are nothing in the League. That to me holds more weight than anything. Again the dude can be drafted but no way can you slice it his value was there.

And regards to whom or what heigh is still a factor for QB, the smaller ones are rarely desirable over the taller ones. Thats a bad point. There is no trend of Tiny WRs being drafted so high my dude.

I mean thats a totally different scenario. A RB should never be picked in the top half of the 1st round (let alone the #2 overall pick). RB have zero positional value. WR are getting paid more and more where you do want cheap productive WR's in your WR room.

Just like centers shouldn't be picked high and safeties shouldn't be picked high either. Especially when you don't have a foundation set.

Top tier positional value are

QB
OT
Edge
CB

and WR is making its way into that group now with what these WR's are getting paid in FA.

The draft is no over so whether he is small or not it all depends if he is productive or not. Schoen at least deserves a year or two until he proves he is not a good drafter. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

We are talking about 5'8 Wrs tho.Not simply WRs. Like How many 5'8 QBs would be drafted high is the point here as well. You have yet to make argument that there was value for him at pick 43. History says no....just like History has told us that you dont have much value in draft RBs High.


History tell us from schit loads of data that you can find his skill set later in the draft. You know it and I know it. Its is what it is but Im not going to act like we got the best value in picking him so high.

[mpharris36]

still doesn't mean much to me as that does not mean you start drafting them so high. Its basically the same thing with Barkley. We draft hi way to high. Is Barkley good player to have sure, but not where he was picked at.

The Odds of 5'8 WR's being successful is RARE in the NFL which is why people cant name to many people so that means 99% of them are nothing in the League. That to me holds more weight than anything. Again the dude can be drafted but no way can you slice it his value was there.

And regards to whom or what heigh is still a factor for QB, the smaller ones are rarely desirable over the taller ones. Thats a bad point. There is no trend of Tiny WRs being drafted so high my dude.

I mean thats a totally different scenario. A RB should never be picked in the top half of the 1st round (let alone the #2 overall pick). RB have zero positional value. WR are getting paid more and more where you do want cheap productive WR's in your WR room.

Just like centers shouldn't be picked high and safeties shouldn't be picked high either. Especially when you don't have a foundation set.

Top tier positional value are

QB
OT
Edge
CB

and WR is making its way into that group now with what these WR's are getting paid in FA.

The draft is no over so whether he is small or not it all depends if he is productive or not. Schoen at least deserves a year or two until he proves he is not a good drafter. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

We are talking about 5'8 Wrs tho.Not simply WRs. Like How many 5'8 QBs would be drafted high is the point here as well. You have yet to make argument that there was value for him at pick 43. History says no....just like History has told us that you dont have much value in draft RBs High.


History tell us from schit loads of data that you can find his skill set later in the draft. You know it and I know it. Its is what it is but Im not going to act like we got the best value in picking him so high.

I get it. if all things were equal you normally take the bigger guy (not denying that). But Schoen specifically said Daboll wanted this guy and if he was high on there board from his nearly 1500 yards from scrimmage last year and they were concerned he wouldn't make it to there 3rd round pick then I won't get on them for having conviction.

This is there 1st draft so we are just building up a resume for Schoen/Daboll and there picks. Like anything they will be evaluated on there success especially find good players in the middle of the of the draft.

It doesn't take a genius to pick 5 and 7. Day 2 and Day 3 picks are where you build your roster.

[TerrenceClarke]

I mean thats a totally different scenario. A RB should never be picked in the top half of the 1st round (let alone the #2 overall pick). RB have zero positional value. WR are getting paid more and more where you do want cheap productive WR's in your WR room.

Just like centers shouldn't be picked high and safeties shouldn't be picked high either. Especially when you don't have a foundation set.

Top tier positional value are

QB
OT
Edge
CB

and WR is making its way into that group now with what these WR's are getting paid in FA.

The draft is no over so whether he is small or not it all depends if he is productive or not. Schoen at least deserves a year or two until he proves he is not a good drafter. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

We are talking about 5'8 Wrs tho.Not simply WRs. Like How many 5'8 QBs would be drafted high is the point here as well. You have yet to make argument that there was value for him at pick 43. History says no....just like History has told us that you dont have much value in draft RBs High.


History tell us from schit loads of data that you can find his skill set later in the draft. You know it and I know it. Its is what it is but Im not going to act like we got the best value in picking him so high.

I get it. if all things were equal you normally take the bigger guy (not denying that). But Schoen specifically said Daboll wanted this guy and if he was high on there board from his nearly 1500 yards from scrimmage last year and they were concerned he wouldn't make it to there 3rd round pick then I won't get on them for having conviction.

This is there 1st draft so we are just building up a resume for Schoen/Daboll and there picks. Like anything they will be evaluated on there success especially find good players in the middle of the of the draft.

It doesn't take a genius to pick 5 and 7. Day 2 and Day 3 picks are where you build your roster.

Yeah but then thats drafting off of Impluse if thats the case. I get all day that Daboll wanted him, but your Job as GM is to get the most value out of every pick you make. College football is littered every year with small dudes like him that have good numbers in college, we know this. Im sure I can find a few small Wrs that put up over 1300 yards in college this year.

Its like saying out of all the player we could have missed on, we COULDNT have passed on Robinson.I dont see his talent in that high of regards personally. Im sure Wink wanted a bunch of dudes, but if that value was not there he had to wait.


Not having Robinson in the second would not have broken this team, but we sure acted like it.


Like I said I want him to work out, but untill I see him destroying defenses at a high level I dont like the spot. Its not about the player its about the spot for me.


Drafting a player like Hall who the Jets picked would have been better value cause we damn sure cant count on Barkley staying healthy is where my mind is at on stuff like this. Having a dependable RB on this team is more important to me than a small WR.

[mpharris36]

We are talking about 5'8 Wrs tho.Not simply WRs. Like How many 5'8 QBs would be drafted high is the point here as well. You have yet to make argument that there was value for him at pick 43. History says no....just like History has told us that you dont have much value in draft RBs High.


History tell us from schit loads of data that you can find his skill set later in the draft. You know it and I know it. Its is what it is but Im not going to act like we got the best value in picking him so high.

I get it. if all things were equal you normally take the bigger guy (not denying that). But Schoen specifically said Daboll wanted this guy and if he was high on there board from his nearly 1500 yards from scrimmage last year and they were concerned he wouldn't make it to there 3rd round pick then I won't get on them for having conviction.

This is there 1st draft so we are just building up a resume for Schoen/Daboll and there picks. Like anything they will be evaluated on there success especially find good players in the middle of the of the draft.

It doesn't take a genius to pick 5 and 7. Day 2 and Day 3 picks are where you build your roster.

Yeah but then thats drafting off of Impluse if thats the case. I get all day that Daboll wanted him, but your Job as GM is to get the most value out of every pick you make. College football is littered every year with small dudes like him that have good numbers in college, we know this. Im sure I can find a few small Wrs that put up over 1300 yards in college this year.

Its like saying out of all the player we could have missed on, we COULDNT have passed on Robinson.I dont see his talent in that high of regards personally. Im sure Wink wanted a bunch of dudes, but if that value was not there he had to wait.


Not having Robinson in the second would not have broken this team, but we sure acted like it.


Like I said I want him to work out, but untill I see him destroying defenses at a high level I dont like the spot. Its not about the player its about the spot for me.


Drafting a player like Hall who the Jets picked would have been better value cause we damn sure cant count on Barkley staying healthy is where my mind is at on stuff like this. Having a dependable RB on this team is more important to me than a small WR.

We shall see. Its not like he did it against some crap competition though. Dude had a strong year in the SEC. He's just extremely undersized. We will see how Daboll uses him but picking him in the 2nd round hopefully and better have big things in store for him.

Kid seems smart and tough. I will bet on that. His drive vs Iowa in the bowl game was impressive

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his contested catches and YAC ability is crazy. Lets just see it play out.

[MrDollarBills]

Darren Sproles at 5’6” was a phenomenal receiver out of the backfield. There’s no question Robinson would have been there in the later rounds though…

I don't think anyone can say that with any certainty. Maybe it was a reach but teams make "reaches" all the time, all it takes is for one other team to be interested. Thats why you pay your FO and simply don't draft off ESPN or NFL best available consensus boards.

If Daboll wanted this guy and thinks he will be a big time weapon in his system then you draft him. Whats to say KC with a late 2nd wouldn't have picked him to replace Tyreke Hill...you never know.

Louis Riddick loved the pick for what its worth.

Yep. Multiple WRs went off the board between 43 and 67.

We don't know what other teams draft boards were looking like either. I'm not against critiquing the pick but there's no way to know if Schoen was the only GM with their sights set on the kid.

[MrDollarBills]

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I'm actually excited to see how Daboll uses this kid. He is pretty nasty after the catch.

[mpharris36]

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[TerrenceClarke]

Round 2, No. 43 overall: Wan’Dale Robinson (WR, Kentucky)

Instead of drafting a potential starter at tight end, guard, linebacker or safety, the Giants traded back twice from No. 36 and wound up with a 5-foot-8 gadget receiver. Robinson was productive (104 catches for 1,334 yards) last season, but had as many drops (seven) as touchdowns. His skills overlap with those of 2021 first-rounder Kadarius Toney. Unlike available receivers Skyy Moore, John Metchie and Alec Pierce, Robinson wasn’t included in The Post’s scouts-aided Top 100 rankings or the NFL Network’s Top 150.

Grade: D+

[TerrenceClarke]

Wow So Calvin Austin from Memphis was drafted in THE FOURTH ROUND.




Dude is the same size as Robinson but he is FASTER and runs BETTER routes and has more muscle on his frame.


Same Type of player as Robinson but goes two rounds laters.....


smh.....


If Joe Schoen gave into Daboll that was a mistake im sorry. After see where basically the SAME player went vs him is crazy.

1000000% the Giants reached on him. I know people will tell themselves whatever they can to make themselves feel better about the pick...But if DG made the pick he would have been slaughter.

Take off the rose colored glasses for those who support this. An arguably better player was taken much later. Like I said theses dudes are all over the draft. I highly doubt Robinson would have been taken in the second round. I HIGHLY doubt it. Giants REACHED for him.

He Look more dynamic than Robinson....His route running is nasty.

Im leary of the Giants Scouting after seeing this.

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[Kampuchea]

[cgmw]

I get it. if all things were equal you normally take the bigger guy (not denying that). But Schoen specifically said Daboll wanted this guy and if he was high on there board from his nearly 1500 yards from scrimmage last year and they were concerned he wouldn't make it to there 3rd round pick then I won't get on them for having conviction.

This is there 1st draft so we are just building up a resume for Schoen/Daboll and there picks. Like anything they will be evaluated on there success especially find good players in the middle of the of the draft.

It doesn't take a genius to pick 5 and 7. Day 2 and Day 3 picks are where you build your roster.

Yeah but then thats drafting off of Impluse if thats the case. I get all day that Daboll wanted him, but your Job as GM is to get the most value out of every pick you make. College football is littered every year with small dudes like him that have good numbers in college, we know this. Im sure I can find a few small Wrs that put up over 1300 yards in college this year.

Its like saying out of all the player we could have missed on, we COULDNT have passed on Robinson.I dont see his talent in that high of regards personally. Im sure Wink wanted a bunch of dudes, but if that value was not there he had to wait.


Not having Robinson in the second would not have broken this team, but we sure acted like it.


Like I said I want him to work out, but untill I see him destroying defenses at a high level I dont like the spot. Its not about the player its about the spot for me.


Drafting a player like Hall who the Jets picked would have been better value cause we damn sure cant count on Barkley staying healthy is where my mind is at on stuff like this. Having a dependable RB on this team is more important to me than a small WR.

We shall see. Its not like he did it against some crap competition though. Dude had a strong year in the SEC. He's just extremely undersized. We will see how Daboll uses him but picking him in the 2nd round hopefully and better have big things in store for him.

Kid seems smart and tough. I will bet on that. His drive vs Iowa in the bowl game was impressive

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his contested catches and YAC ability is crazy. Lets just see it play out.

Love those clips. And it’s exciting to think the Giants intend to modernize the offense with pre-snap motion and two dynamic athletes like Toney and Robinson, however…

Round 2 was very high for a new GM to take such a risk because as fun/exciting as the above clips are, you can flash hundreds of equally great clips from the safer prospects that Schoen passed on.

Clearly the Giants are thinking longterm development by loading up on multiple picks, especially so young (average age is 20.5 y/o I think). And clearly they’re making a statement about transforming the offense into something resembling the Bills. But none of that changes the fact that they took a weird risk that cost them the opportunity of a better player in Rd 2, especially since Robinson or similar players would have been available later.

He’s not just 5’8. He’s also tiny (175 lbs!) with historically short arms and small hands. He’s fast but not Tyreke fast. Will be fun to see how it shakes out.

[mpharris36]

Yeah but then thats drafting off of Impluse if thats the case. I get all day that Daboll wanted him, but your Job as GM is to get the most value out of every pick you make. College football is littered every year with small dudes like him that have good numbers in college, we know this. Im sure I can find a few small Wrs that put up over 1300 yards in college this year.

Its like saying out of all the player we could have missed on, we COULDNT have passed on Robinson.I dont see his talent in that high of regards personally. Im sure Wink wanted a bunch of dudes, but if that value was not there he had to wait.


Not having Robinson in the second would not have broken this team, but we sure acted like it.


Like I said I want him to work out, but untill I see him destroying defenses at a high level I dont like the spot. Its not about the player its about the spot for me.


Drafting a player like Hall who the Jets picked would have been better value cause we damn sure cant count on Barkley staying healthy is where my mind is at on stuff like this. Having a dependable RB on this team is more important to me than a small WR.

We shall see. Its not like he did it against some crap competition though. Dude had a strong year in the SEC. He's just extremely undersized. We will see how Daboll uses him but picking him in the 2nd round hopefully and better have big things in store for him.

Kid seems smart and tough. I will bet on that. His drive vs Iowa in the bowl game was impressive

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his contested catches and YAC ability is crazy. Lets just see it play out.

Love those clips. And it’s exciting to think the Giants intend to modernize the offense with pre-snap motion and two dynamic athletes like Toney and Robinson, however…

Round 2 was very high for a new GM to take such a risk because as fun/exciting as the above clips are, you can flash hundreds of equally great clips from the safer prospects that Schoen passed on.

Clearly the Giants are thinking longterm development by loading up on multiple picks, especially so young (average age is 20.5 y/o I think). And clearly they’re making a statement about transforming the offense into something resembling the Bills. But none of that changes the fact that they took a weird risk that cost them the opportunity of a better player in Rd 2, especially since Robinson or similar players would have been available later.

He’s not just 5’8. He’s also tiny (175 lbs!) with historically short arms and small hands. He’s fast but not Tyreke fast. Will be fun to see how it shakes out.

He also bench pressed 19 reps at 225. For comparison Kenyon Green the 15th overall pick offensive lineman did 20 reps at 225.

He is really strong!

[cgmw]

Spoiler:

We shall see. Its not like he did it against some crap competition though. Dude had a strong year in the SEC. He's just extremely undersized. We will see how Daboll uses him but picking him in the 2nd round hopefully and better have big things in store for him.

Kid seems smart and tough. I will bet on that. His drive vs Iowa in the bowl game was impressive

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his contested catches and YAC ability is crazy. Lets just see it play out.

Love those clips. And it’s exciting to think the Giants intend to modernize the offense with pre-snap motion and two dynamic athletes like Toney and Robinson, however…

Round 2 was very high for a new GM to take such a risk because as fun/exciting as the above clips are, you can flash hundreds of equally great clips from the safer prospects that Schoen passed on.

Clearly the Giants are thinking longterm development by loading up on multiple picks, especially so young (average age is 20.5 y/o I think). And clearly they’re making a statement about transforming the offense into something resembling the Bills. But none of that changes the fact that they took a weird risk that cost them the opportunity of a better player in Rd 2, especially since Robinson or similar players would have been available later.

He’s not just 5’8. He’s also tiny (175 lbs!) with historically short arms and small hands. He’s fast but not Tyreke fast. Will be fun to see how it shakes out.

He also bench pressed 19 reps at 225. For comparison Kenyon Green the 15th overall pick offensive lineman did 20 reps at 225.

He is really strong!

Historical reps for historically short arms

[2010]

Wow So Calvin Austin from Memphis was drafted in THE FOURTH ROUND.




Dude is the same size as Robinson but he is FASTER and runs BETTER routes and has more muscle on his frame.


Same Type of player as Robinson but goes two rounds laters.....


smh.....


If Joe Schoen gave into Daboll that was a mistake im sorry. After see where basically the SAME player went vs him is crazy.

1000000% the Giants reached on him. I know people will tell themselves whatever they can to make themselves feel better about the pick...But if DG made the pick he would have been slaughter.

Take off the rose colored glasses for those who support this. An arguably better player was taken much later. Like I said theses dudes are all over the draft. I highly doubt Robinson would have been taken in the second round. I HIGHLY doubt it. Giants REACHED for him.

He Look more dynamic than Robinson....His route running is nasty.

Im leary of the Giants Scouting after seeing this.

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Me personally, if we were set on a WR I’d have taken Skyy Moore.

[DOT]

I'm excited for this UDFA dude Kevin Austin

He's got the size and athleticism to be an X receiver (6-2, 200 pounds, ran a 4.43 at the combine), but he's super unpolished and only has 1 season of production (was suspended and injured for most of his time at ND), but he showed a ton of growth during that one season

Here's his RAS score and draft profile from PFF:

Spoiler:

He went undrafted due to the lack of production and how raw of a route runner he is, but he's got a ton of upside

I'm pretty sure we're gonna Knicks him though. We overpaid for a bunch of mediocre vets, and he's just a UDFA. But he should have a good shot at making the roster, and hopefully he balls out for us.

[2010]

We shall see. Its not like he did it against some crap competition though. Dude had a strong year in the SEC. He's just extremely undersized. We will see how Daboll uses him but picking him in the 2nd round hopefully and better have big things in store for him.

Kid seems smart and tough. I will bet on that. His drive vs Iowa in the bowl game was impressive

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his contested catches and YAC ability is crazy. Lets just see it play out.

Love those clips. And it’s exciting to think the Giants intend to modernize the offense with pre-snap motion and two dynamic athletes like Toney and Robinson, however…

Round 2 was very high for a new GM to take such a risk because as fun/exciting as the above clips are, you can flash hundreds of equally great clips from the safer prospects that Schoen passed on.

Clearly the Giants are thinking longterm development by loading up on multiple picks, especially so young (average age is 20.5 y/o I think). And clearly they’re making a statement about transforming the offense into something resembling the Bills. But none of that changes the fact that they took a weird risk that cost them the opportunity of a better player in Rd 2, especially since Robinson or similar players would have been available later.

He’s not just 5’8. He’s also tiny (175 lbs!) with historically short arms and small hands. He’s fast but not Tyreke fast. Will be fun to see how it shakes out.

He also bench pressed 19 reps at 225. For comparison Kenyon Green the 15th overall pick offensive lineman did 20 reps at 225.

He is really strong!

That’s that RB in him.

[mpharris36]

Love those clips. And it’s exciting to think the Giants intend to modernize the offense with pre-snap motion and two dynamic athletes like Toney and Robinson, however…

Round 2 was very high for a new GM to take such a risk because as fun/exciting as the above clips are, you can flash hundreds of equally great clips from the safer prospects that Schoen passed on.

Clearly the Giants are thinking longterm development by loading up on multiple picks, especially so young (average age is 20.5 y/o I think). And clearly they’re making a statement about transforming the offense into something resembling the Bills. But none of that changes the fact that they took a weird risk that cost them the opportunity of a better player in Rd 2, especially since Robinson or similar players would have been available later.

He’s not just 5’8. He’s also tiny (175 lbs!) with historically short arms and small hands. He’s fast but not Tyreke fast. Will be fun to see how it shakes out.

He also bench pressed 19 reps at 225. For comparison Kenyon Green the 15th overall pick offensive lineman did 20 reps at 225.

He is really strong!

That’s that RB in him.

He's a tough SOB with the ball. I like the kid. I probably preferred other picks as well but daboll wants to build his offense and he obviously thinks this guy is going to be a major piece in it.

[TerrenceClarke]

He also bench pressed 19 reps at 225. For comparison Kenyon Green the 15th overall pick offensive lineman did 20 reps at 225.

He is really strong!

That’s that RB in him.

He's a tough SOB with the ball. I like the kid. I probably preferred other picks as well but daboll wants to build his offense and he obviously thinks this guy is going to be a major piece in it.

fixed lol