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Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season

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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1821 » by F N 11 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:49 pm

Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:I disagree

I agree, people underestimate how good Lebron makes teams. I know Irving is a great player. His offensive skills are great. However that team is going nowhere with those ISO tendencies. Their problem is not even talent. Its style of play.

That style of play won a championship.
Golden state went and got the best iso scorer in the game to close.

What are you even talking about right now?

lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.

Did KD have some all world ISO pull ups. Sure. But KD played the most off ball of his life and had his best season to date because of it.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1822 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:56 pm

K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:I agree, people underestimate how good Lebron makes teams. I know Irving is a great player. His offensive skills are great. However that team is going nowhere with those ISO tendencies. Their problem is not even talent. Its style of play.

That style of play won a championship.
Golden state went and got the best iso scorer in the game to close.

What are you even talking about right now?

lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.



Damn near every team you just named has elite iso scorers.

KD
Kawhi
Isaiah

Washington actually lacks one and thus ran into offensive problems in the playoffs.

Your iso hate is interesting.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1823 » by Dr. Detfink » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:08 pm

Iso ball works if you're in the lead or within 5 points of the lead with GREAT defense. It doesn't work when you're in a double digit deficit because it eats up a lot of clock and when you're playing from behind every second is precious.

That's why it doesn't work for the Knicks, they're constantly playing from behind and have a horrific defense.

Likewise, the Cavs played into the Warriors hands by trying to match them shot for shot. It backfired badly.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1824 » by F N 11 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:42 pm

Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:That style of play won a championship.
Golden state went and got the best iso scorer in the game to close.

What are you even talking about right now?

lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.



Damn near every team you just named has elite iso scorers.

KD
Kawhi
Isaiah

Washington actually lacks one and thus ran into offensive problems in the playoffs.

Your iso hate is interesting.

So what they play as a team. Thats my point. I proved my point. bye
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1825 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:56 pm

K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.



Damn near every team you just named has elite iso scorers.

KD
Kawhi
Isaiah

Washington actually lacks one and thus ran into offensive problems in the playoffs.

Your iso hate is interesting.

So what they play as a team. Thats my point. I proved my point. bye



No you didn't. They are a simple P&R team with an a really good backcourt. That's why they made the playoffs. Once they got there, they got shut down by teams that can play defense as they had no go to scorer that could create a shot on his own.

Wall isn't a good shooter and Beal is an average at best iso scorer himself.


The game slowed down and all of that running and gunning became hard.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1826 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:58 pm

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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1827 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:58 pm

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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1828 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:59 pm

K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:I agree, people underestimate how good Lebron makes teams. I know Irving is a great player. His offensive skills are great. However that team is going nowhere with those ISO tendencies. Their problem is not even talent. Its style of play.

That style of play won a championship.
Golden state went and got the best iso scorer in the game to close.

What are you even talking about right now?

lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.

Did KD have some all world ISO pull ups. Sure. But KD played the most off ball of his life and had his best season to date because of it.


I don't agree with this. I actually think the iso strategy could have worked, and it did work---last year. I think there was a bigger issue with Cleveland this year. Their defense was "turrible."

I saw the blueprint with San Antonio during the first half of the SA-GS series. Get an elite iso scorer (Kawhi), get a really strong defense, and a secondary scorer who lives off the shots that defenses love to give up. Obviously, some things went wrong---Kawhi getting hurt, LMA not living up to his rep, and other stuff. I don't think you can plan to out-pass, out-3 GS. I think the best way is to get the game ugly, limit possessions so your iso scorer can go to work and limit the possessions their stars get to work. And minimize transition opportunities. Back up that ugliness with some great defense.

It worked a little last year with Cleveland. They made the game ugly. They had Kyrie Irving and Lebron and people hunting for Curry isos, even in the halfcourt. They exposed a weakness in GS. When the game is ugly, the only one who could break down the defense, was Steph Curry. I think KD brought that 2nd iso scorer to GS, and the type of guy to make Lebron work.

Not to say the Knicks don't need to share---we do need to share. HOWEVER, there are times when a game gets really ugly, and things are not happening, and our sets are getting destroyed by top defenders, and we need a guy to take the shot, with confidence. I don't want that guy iso-ing over and over again, obviously, but he'll be needed. I do think that KG, the big man defender with range and intensity, was the most important member of the Celtics. But KG needed Pierce too. And Pierce would be just a loser without KG.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1829 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:59 pm

hahahaha
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1830 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:02 pm

Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Damn near every team you just named has elite iso scorers.

KD
Kawhi
Isaiah

Washington actually lacks one and thus ran into offensive problems in the playoffs.

Your iso hate is interesting.

So what they play as a team. Thats my point. I proved my point. bye



No you didn't. They are a simple P&R team with an a really good backcourt. That's why they made the playoffs. Once they got there, they got shut down by teams that can play defense as they had no go to scorer that could create a shot on his own.

Wall isn't a good shooter and Beal is an average at best iso scorer himself.

The game slowed down and all of that running and gunning became hard.


Nope.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Golden State obviously uses pick and rolls, too, but the club relies on them less than any team in basketball.2 Instead, the Warriors prefer to confuse their opponents by setting screens away from the ball, a strategy the Dubs used 400 times more3 in the regular season than the next-closest team.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1831 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:24 pm

knicksh20b wrote:
K P 6 wrote:
Greenie wrote:That style of play won a championship.
Golden state went and got the best iso scorer in the game to close.

What are you even talking about right now?

lmao Greenie cmon man. I know you watched the games. What am I talking about? You can put all stars on a team and they wont mesh. Put all stars on a team and they play the right way and share they are dangerous. This is what I'm talking about...

GSW 147 assist
CLE 108 assist

through 5 games. Speaks for itself. Like Kevin Mchale said. What makes GSW good is that they play D and share the ball. You can put all the talent on the floor if they dont play the right way they wont win. Cle did one on one almost every time down its frustrating. You cant beat great teams like that. Same reason why Boston lacks talent and won 50. Same reason why Spurs are good every year. Same reason why Washington went on a tear. Sharing the ball and continuity is without a doubt very important in winning.

Knicks looked great on paper but we aint share crap!!! That and defense was our down fall.

Did KD have some all world ISO pull ups. Sure. But KD played the most off ball of his life and had his best season to date because of it.


I don't agree with this. I actually think the iso strategy could have worked, and it did work---last year. I think there was a bigger issue with Cleveland this year. Their defense was "turrible."

I saw the blueprint with San Antonio during the first half of the SA-GS series. Get an elite iso scorer (Kawhi), get a really strong defense, and a secondary scorer who lives off the shots that defenses love to give up. Obviously, some things went wrong---Kawhi getting hurt, LMA not living up to his rep, and other stuff. I don't think you can plan to out-pass, out-3 GS. I think the best way is to get the game ugly, limit possessions so your iso scorer can go to work and limit the possessions their stars get to work. And minimize transition opportunities. Back up that ugliness with some great defense.

It worked a little last year with Cleveland. They made the game ugly. They had Kyrie Irving and Lebron and people hunting for Curry isos, even in the halfcourt. They exposed a weakness in GS. When the game is ugly, the only one who could break down the defense, was Steph Curry. I think KD brought that 2nd iso scorer to GS, and the type of guy to make Lebron work.

Not to say the Knicks don't need to share---we do need to share. HOWEVER, there are times when a game gets really ugly, and things are not happening, and our sets are getting destroyed by top defenders, and we need a guy to take the shot, with confidence. I don't want that guy iso-ing over and over again, obviously, but he'll be needed. I do think that KG, the big man defender with range and intensity, was the most important member of the Celtics. But KG needed Pierce too. And Pierce would be just a loser without KG.



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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1832 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Greenie wrote:
K P 6 wrote:So what they play as a team. Thats my point. I proved my point. bye



No you didn't. They are a simple P&R team with an a really good backcourt. That's why they made the playoffs. Once they got there, they got shut down by teams that can play defense as they had no go to scorer that could create a shot on his own.

Wall isn't a good shooter and Beal is an average at best iso scorer himself.

The game slowed down and all of that running and gunning became hard.


Nope.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Golden State obviously uses pick and rolls, too, but the club relies on them less than any team in basketball.2 Instead, the Warriors prefer to confuse their opponents by setting screens away from the ball, a strategy the Dubs used 400 times more3 in the regular season than the next-closest team.



Follow the convo Wingo.
We are talking about the Wizards.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1833 » by god shammgod » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:25 pm

blake to the celts ? seems a strange fit.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1834 » by god shammgod » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:26 pm

Greenie wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Greenie wrote:

No you didn't. They are a simple P&R team with an a really good backcourt. That's why they made the playoffs. Once they got there, they got shut down by teams that can play defense as they had no go to scorer that could create a shot on his own.

Wall isn't a good shooter and Beal is an average at best iso scorer himself.

The game slowed down and all of that running and gunning became hard.


Nope.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-beautiful-chaos-of-the-warriors-offense/

Golden State obviously uses pick and rolls, too, but the club relies on them less than any team in basketball.2 Instead, the Warriors prefer to confuse their opponents by setting screens away from the ball, a strategy the Dubs used 400 times more3 in the regular season than the next-closest team.



Follow the convo Wingo.
We are talking about the Wizards.


hey....have some respect for the elderly
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1835 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:30 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Greenie wrote:



Follow the convo Wingo.
We are talking about the Wizards.


hey....have some respect for the elderly



I'm sorry Mr. Wingo.
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1836 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:51 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Greenie wrote:



Follow the convo Wingo.
We are talking about the Wizards.


hey....have some respect for the elderly


The Wizards? Why are you talking about the Wizards? And y'all call me senile? :lol:
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1837 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:04 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Greenie wrote:

Follow the convo Wingo.
We are talking about the Wizards.


hey....have some respect for the elderly


The Wizards? Why are you talking about the Wizards? And y'all call me senile? :lol:


They were brought up as a successful example of team ball by K P 6....
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1838 » by Dr. Detfink » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:24 pm

god shammgod wrote:blake to the celts ? seems a strange fit.


Hope that's just a rumor. Can't see it.

I was amused when the internets caught fire over Gordon Haywward's kid being wrapped in a shamrock blankie. :lol:
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1839 » by Greenie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:31 pm

god shammgod wrote:blake to the celts ? seems a strange fit.

It's a great fit....
For us 8-)

Fuq that cap up Ainge. Fuq it all up for an average at best team. :lol:
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Re: Around the NBA - Whelp, that just about does it for the 2016-17 NBA season 

Post#1840 » by god shammgod » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:49 pm

it shows you how hard it is to attract free agents. the celtics got everything going for them somewhat and are desperate to blow their wad on blake griffin or gordon hayward. good players but if they're your best player, why bother ?

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