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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1821 » by bleedblue3303 » Thu Aug 6, 2020 9:59 pm

moocow007 wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
The problem with those stats are they are college stats. The NBA game is completely different. Then you factor his role in college and how likely it is that it would be a similar role in the NBA and that creates additional discrepancies between how he did in college and how likely he's able to impact in the NBA. Yes, he's a intelligent, bright guy. So was Landry Fields. Very engaging. But his physical tools and skillset IMO is definitely not that of an NBA starter and is a back of the rotation type player. Can he find a role on some teams, sure. But as a key must have piece? I don't see it.


yeah, obviously the stats dont equate....never said they did...otherwise, Michael Beasley, Jimmer Fredette, and Doug McDermott would be stars

the point I made, which you were refuting was that Butler was definitely/squarely in the 2nd round mix. you believed he could go undrafted


Michael Beasley has/had the basketball skills to be an NBA All-Star. His problem wasn't that his tools and skills couldn't translate, it could. His problem is that he's a moron. Fredette's problem is part not translating but also part moron. Not in a stupid sense but in the sense that he didn't want to accept anything other than him being the guy to take the shots. McDermott was clearly a did not translate.

But in any case, my opinion is that once you get past the 1st group of maybe 25-28 guys (Butler is not in my group of 28 guys) that the rest of them can go anywhere (either drafted in the 2nd or undrafted). I don't care what someone else (Givony) says. He's been wrong before too. I base what I decide on what I see. And I do not see a guy that can translate well enough to the NBA to the point where I'd be trying to draft him at the top of the 2nd round.

Case in point, Paul Eboua. I would not be surprised if he gets drafted in the 1st round. And he's a guy that most mocks don't have getting drafted at all or as a fringe 2nd. But why would I if no one else thinks he would? Cause he has a hell of a foundation to evolve into a top tier NBA player based on what I can see. That's stuff you can't teach. Doesn't matter if he's raw. What he has shown is that he not only has the physical tools to excel in the NBA but intensity, feel, competitiveness, shooting form, ability to put the ball on the floor which, for a guy that has had relatively little basketball experience, tells me that he may be a natural basketball player. And those guys pick things up quickly and end up excelling.


Watched video on Eboua. I'm convinced. He's exactly the kind of player Toronto would draft and develop into the next Siakam. Unfortunately, we are not Toronto. Not sure we would have the patience with him. But starting to hope we get like 5 second rounders and take some swings. Eboua, Mane', Scrubbs, etc.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1822 » by knickstape21 » Fri Aug 7, 2020 12:02 am

malik959 wrote:We were saying the same thing s about players like D. Mitch and Kemba. "Tweener type, not pass first, inconsistent shot, handling being from NY." Man I wish we could go back and pick up Mitch. The only difference between Cole and Mitch are defense


I’ve seen bad takes. This has entered my top 10.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1823 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Fri Aug 7, 2020 2:20 pm

Read on Twitter


Sounds like we got this first pick all wrapped up. We might need to keep Payton around next year too if this happens again this year.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1824 » by EMG518 » Fri Aug 7, 2020 4:13 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sounds like we got this first pick all wrapped up. We might need to keep Payton around next year too if this happens again this year.


If we get the 1st pick we better resign him. Cant let that type of power slip out of our grasp.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1825 » by Worst_to_First » Fri Aug 7, 2020 5:16 pm

Julius Randle’s teams got a Top 2 pick each year that his team owned their pick. Lakers got DLo, Ingram, Lonzo and Pelicans got Zion.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1826 » by DaGawd » Fri Aug 7, 2020 5:26 pm

We'll be picking 10th.. don't fall for it
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1827 » by knickstape4ever » Fri Aug 7, 2020 6:49 pm

EMG518 wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sounds like we got this first pick all wrapped up. We might need to keep Payton around next year too if this happens again this year.


If we get the 1st pick we better resign him. Cant let that type of power slip out of our grasp.


nah, Suns and Pelicans ditched him after winning #1. if we actually did win #1, I'd thank him for his David Griffin-like powers and send him on his way
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1828 » by HEZI » Fri Aug 7, 2020 7:38 pm

As the NBA has continued to shoot more three-pointers and defenses have adapted to trying to run shooters off the line and into the range, Michael Pina writes at The Ringer that there has been a significant rise in one-dribble three-point attempts.

The Golden State Warriors led the NBA in 14-15 in this category at 2.7 percent of their shot distribution, but it would now rank No. 29.

Zach LaVine and Jayson Tatum lead the NBA in one-dribble shots this season.

“Now it’s just 3s, but my first couple years I shot a whole bunch of one-dribble pull-ups along the baseline and stuff like that,” LaVine told Pina. “It’s just something that I had to add. Instead of me getting catch-and-shoots—they’ve been taking those away—the one-dribble pull-up has helped me create space.”

“Once you put the ball down, you’ve gotta reset the ball in a position that you like,” Washington Wizards guard Shabazz Napier said. “That’s where the field goal percentages drop. It’s not like players want to dribble.”

Duncan Robinson described his version of the one-dribble 3 as more of a “throw-out dribble”—one dribble in stride to evade a defender hot on his tail. “So I’ll come off a pin-down, throw it out, one dribble,” he said. “It’s just a little bit different than what you’re typically going to see.”

Trainer Drew Hanlen has worked with LaVine and Tatum on improving the one-dribble three-pointer.

“You’ll see a lot of guys’ shots break down off the dribble,” Hanlen said. To get them comfortable from one season to the next, “most of them are making 250 to 500 3s a day, every single day throughout the summer. That’s how they actually see those increases in range, increases in percentage, and increase in frequency of them taking those shots.”

“I’m not one of these guys who’s gonna get the ball and try to facilitate and put it on the deck,” Joe Harris said. “But I’m always trying to find windows, find space. A lot of those catch-and-shoot opportunities are few and far between right now.”

Harris sees the one-dribble three-pointer as his best alternative.

“If I don’t have space initially, off of some sort of screening action,” he said, “then I utilize one dribble.”


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1829 » by knickstape4ever » Fri Aug 7, 2020 7:46 pm

Macri campaigning for Okoro over Vassell, lol. has he not watched a Knicks game recently? we need shooting and if the choice is between Vassell and Okoro, both great defenders w/ Vassell being the far superior shooter, the choice is easy: Vassell, he fits better next to Mitch and RJ

fit is important; many talented players fail because they were drafted to teams where they didnt fit
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1830 » by Oscirus » Fri Aug 7, 2020 7:49 pm

And in thibs first year with the bulls he got first pick. Coincidence? Well yea but I'm still choosing to see it as an omen
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1831 » by knickstape4ever » Fri Aug 7, 2020 7:58 pm

HEZI wrote:
As the NBA has continued to shoot more three-pointers and defenses have adapted to trying to run shooters off the line and into the range, Michael Pina writes at The Ringer that there has been a significant rise in one-dribble three-point attempts.

The Golden State Warriors led the NBA in 14-15 in this category at 2.7 percent of their shot distribution, but it would now rank No. 29.

Zach LaVine and Jayson Tatum lead the NBA in one-dribble shots this season.

“Now it’s just 3s, but my first couple years I shot a whole bunch of one-dribble pull-ups along the baseline and stuff like that,” LaVine told Pina. “It’s just something that I had to add. Instead of me getting catch-and-shoots—they’ve been taking those away—the one-dribble pull-up has helped me create space.”

“Once you put the ball down, you’ve gotta reset the ball in a position that you like,” Washington Wizards guard Shabazz Napier said. “That’s where the field goal percentages drop. It’s not like players want to dribble.”

Duncan Robinson described his version of the one-dribble 3 as more of a “throw-out dribble”—one dribble in stride to evade a defender hot on his tail. “So I’ll come off a pin-down, throw it out, one dribble,” he said. “It’s just a little bit different than what you’re typically going to see.”

Trainer Drew Hanlen has worked with LaVine and Tatum on improving the one-dribble three-pointer.

“You’ll see a lot of guys’ shots break down off the dribble,” Hanlen said. To get them comfortable from one season to the next, “most of them are making 250 to 500 3s a day, every single day throughout the summer. That’s how they actually see those increases in range, increases in percentage, and increase in frequency of them taking those shots.”

“I’m not one of these guys who’s gonna get the ball and try to facilitate and put it on the deck,” Joe Harris said. “But I’m always trying to find windows, find space. A lot of those catch-and-shoot opportunities are few and far between right now.”

Harris sees the one-dribble three-pointer as his best alternative.

“If I don’t have space initially, off of some sort of screening action,” he said, “then I utilize one dribble.”


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1832 » by Strick » Fri Aug 7, 2020 8:43 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:Macri campaigning for Okoro over Vassell, lol. has he not watched a Knicks game recently? we need shooting and if the choice is between Vassell and Okoro, both great defenders w/ Vassell being the far superior shooter, the choice is easy: Vassell, he fits better next to Mitch and RJ

fit is important; many talented players fail because they were drafted to teams where they didnt fit

I really like both players a lot. I think Okoro is a really intriguing talent and I love guys who can contribute on both ends. That being said, for the NY Knicks, I can’t prioritize him over Vassell. This team needs shooters and Vassell brings many of the elements that Okoro does but is a good shooter as well.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1833 » by sol537 » Fri Aug 7, 2020 9:09 pm

Grab Edwards with the #1 pick and then trade up for Vassell. Get'er done, Donnie!
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1834 » by RHODEY » Fri Aug 7, 2020 9:51 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:Macri campaigning for Okoro over Vassell, lol. has he not watched a Knicks game recently? we need shooting and if the choice is between Vassell and Okoro, both great defenders w/ Vassell being the far superior shooter, the choice is easy: Vassell, he fits better next to Mitch and RJ

fit is important; many talented players fail because they were drafted to teams where they didnt fit


If we are around 7th, 8th, or 9th Vassell is my pick....and I would be very excited about that.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1835 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Fri Aug 7, 2020 11:38 pm

Coach One: “****, Edwards was the best player in the league. That dude was very impressive in person. He seemed like a great kid, I’m not sure though.

(Tom) Crean let that **** rock out. He was doing whatever he wanted to do, and that was bad. And I get why Crean did it. What else could he do? But even with him taking awful shots and doing whatever he wanted to do, you could see him on an NBA team with an NBA structure. When I first saw him on tape, I said “that mother **** is Brad Beal.” He can play in pick-and-roll, he’s getting by guys, he’s iso-ing, all three levels. Then when I saw him in person, I thought he was more (Victor) Oladipo. He’s a little smaller, Beal is a really good cutter and can really pass, too. I’m not sure if Edwards can pass. He gave me some Beal, some Oladipo. In a better draft, he’s in the No. 6 to 9 range. But in this draft, where we haven’t seen Wiseman? I like what I’ve seen of LaMelo Ball, but I don’t know. Edwards could easily go number one. He is the best player I saw in college. I think he can shoot the **** out of it, while taking some tough ass shots. If he’s coached on his shot selection and goes to a decent organization, I think he can really be a great player.

“Oladipo and Beal can handle the ball. Edwards is very much, “I’m going to give you an in-and-out, and I’m going to go.” I loved him though. I loved his athleticism, I loved his strength, I loved his speed. I loved how all the focus was on him and he wanted to win. I enjoyed watching him play, even though he was doing anything he wanted to do. It was such a weird group, because they did have talent. Wheeler is not bad. The big lefty they have is not bad. They had talent. But Crean let him rock out. If he could play in a structure, I’m curious to see if he can do that.

“The lack of winning is a red flag. Not being able to see him in an NBA structure offensively or defensively is a red flag. But that being said, his pure talent, athleticism, shooting ability, it’s off the charts to me. That mother **** is a problem. If you can check out the mental, the approach, the professionalism, the work ethic, that all I don’t know. But I was very much like “I’m a big fan, this dude is really talented.” He’s skilled, he does need to improve his ballhandling, decision making, shot selection, all that stuff needs work. But if I’m a team and I have a chance to take a talent like that? Man, it’s hard to pass up.”


Anthony Edwards contests a shot against Arizona State’s Alonzo Verge Jr. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images)
Coach Two: “Yeah, obviously super talented. I really respect the talent. But if I was at the top of the draft and he was being talked about, he would scare me. From a toughness, ‘does-he-help-us-win’ standpoint. From a ‘does he help make his teammates better’ standpoint. Compare it to last year. Terence Davis took Ole Miss to the Tournament with an okay supporting cast. And Anthony Edwards, Georgia was terrible this year. I know he’s so much more athletically gifted, but I’d have a hard time. Okoro takes Auburn and makes them significantly better. Edwards didn’t do that. I just don’t know. I’d have a lot of question marks about if he’s made of the right stuff to make others better. I don’t know. I’m just not necessarily sold on that one as the first or second pick.

“He’s an average ballhandler. Not good on defense. Not engaged. He didn’t impress us as a defender. We thought he was really good. I can’t tell you why Ben Simmons didn’t work at LSU. I can’t tell you why Anthony Edwards didn’t work at Georgia. I know freshmen aren’t always ready. But you gotta at least go to 8-10 in this league right?

“Every time he got the ball, our goal was to send bodies (on defense). Make him make the decision. Make him spray it. Send more bodies. Tom did a good job switching up stuff to put them in good spots. We played aggressive on ball screens and we were switching some, which gave them problems. Then he started to have guards set ball screens for Edwards, so he did really nice little adjustments. But I was little disappointed. The ballhandling? Not quite there. Settling for 3s? He’s shooting like half of his shots are 3s. He’s like the most athletic guy on the court. Six-foot-five body, and he’s content shooting step-back 3s. And yeah he can do it, and it’s fluid and everything. But that’s just not going to help you win. You’d be better off fouling out one of our guys by going to the rim every time, or posting up, or going and getting a rebound and getting fouled. He just doesn’t do those things. There’s some reason to be concerned.

“I don’t want to slam the kid. He might put it together. But it’s hard to know.”

Coach Three: “I think he’s an average role player, maybe a starter. But I don’t even know that I’m going to give him that. He has to change a lot about what he does. Can’t stand his defensive intensity. Can’t stand his shot selection, which absolutely will not translate to any team in the NBA. Physically, everybody is physical up there. Of course he was a man among boys at this level, but quite honestly he wasn’t enough of a man among boys here to make me think he’s going to go up there and just physically overpower grown men.

“He’s not that tall either. It’s not like he’s 6-8. He’s 6-foot-5. I’d never take him No. 1. Ever. Under any circumstances. I would trade out of that position if that’s what I thought was the answer.”

Coach Four: “I’m higher on Okoro than him, being in the same league. I like Okoro better. I thought Edwards was bigger, but when we played him he ain’t necessarily what you think. He was much more of a jump shooter than I thought he’d be. And defensively, it was not pretty. Offensively, I thought he really fell in love with his jumper. Off the dribble, tough shots. Obviously some potential for growth there. I would have liked to have seen him attack more, though to be honest with you. I would have liked to have seen him use his size and athleticism to generate more plays at the rim.

“Defensively, man, whoever drafts him is going to have a lot of work to do. Preparing for him from a scouting standpoint, you watch a lot of their games and for a certain five minutes or a dozen or so plays, you just shake your head because he doesn’t make winning plays on defense. Is there any Stanley Johnson in him?”

Coach Five: “Really, really good. ****, when he shot the ball, you thought it was going in every single time. I’ve heard he’s a really good kid who works his ass off. From an in-game perspective, I thought he kind of coasted a little too much and was immature. He took plays off. Whenever he had the ball, he could just dominate and take over the game. I think he’s really, really talented. To compare him to another freshman lottery pick who lost a lot of games, Edwards was just so much better than Markelle Fultz. I know that hasn’t really turned out well, but comparing top, top level players, he’s really good. And he has legitimate size for the position, too.”

Coach Six: “He looks the part and is really, really talented. It was like he was in cruise control against us the whole game until crunch time. He didn’t really do **** the whole game. He made a tough shot here and there, and we were sitting there like ‘okay, when is he going to be Anthony Edwards?’ But he hit a huge shot late in the game, and then game on the line, he sat down in a stance for the first time all game and locked our dude up. That’s the ceiling of what he can do.

“But he seemed comfortable having an up-and-down game as opposed to grinding out a win. That’s for damn sure. He just didn’t seem like he cared that much. He was more about his antics pre-game, but when game time came it felt like he was playing an AAU game. But obviously exceptionally talented and capable in a lot of ways. It’s just whether or chooses to or not.”

Coach Seven: “Uber-talented kid. Really can do a lot of things really well. I’ll be interested to see what he can become. He has all the tools. He has all the gifts of tremendous professional players. It’ll be interested to see if he can put it all together to become a professional player, because I just think the kid wrapped up in all of the things that have nothing to do with the importance of team or basketball.

“He’s a mismatch. When we played him, we tried to put different guys on him. Going into the game, we didn’t know who could guard him because he has such a big body. He can take advantage of smaller defenders. He has great ability to separate from taller and longer defenders. He can create his own shot and get to his spots and rise up. He’s just so difficult to guard.

I think ultimately that defense will be up to his next coach. How much will the NBA put up with the kind of low interest level he had playing defense? If you look in the past, it’s not unlike a lot of high level prospects. But I don’t know. Why does he go to Georgia? What’s the sell there? I don’t know that the kid has a concern about winning. There are kids that are scared of having winning and losing being on their shoulders. Or rather, just losing on their shoulders. If you go somewhere like Georgia, and you’re not surrounded by talent, it’s always just ‘oh, he didn’t play with any talent.'”

Coach Eight: “Love him. First kid since Deandre Ayton that I’ve seen where I was like, ‘oh that’s Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony, D-Wade.’ The kind of guys you knew would be all-stars. Not even Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz, I didn’t think that. Mike Beasley, I thought was a surefire one, and his talent is of that even if it didn’t work out. But Anthony Edwards is the first kid since Deandre Ayton to where I’ve just been like ‘yes, No. 1.’ No. 1, No. 2, No. 3. He’s that talented. Elite athlete, beautiful jump shot. He looks the part. He looks like someone who is going to have a long career as an all-star. He looks like Brad Beal, Joe Johnson when he’s out there on the court.

“The thing that did concern me with him is that he has a low foul rate for his athleticism and ball skills. I think he settled for 3s. I wish he would have gotten fouled a lot more. He was so good, though.”


https://theathletic.com/1964306/2020/08/07/2020-nba-draft-college-coaches-poll-what-matters-most-for-anthony-edwards/

Sam Vecenie interviewed a bunch of college coaches about Anthony Edwards and here's what they thought.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1836 » by newyorker4ever » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:33 am

Angryfatboy wrote:Y’all will either be very right about cole or very wrong Lol.

He’s a wildcard in this draft


Drafts are a wild card.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1837 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Aug 8, 2020 12:48 am

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1838 » by VirginiaKnickFan » Sat Aug 8, 2020 1:28 am

DaGawd wrote:We'll be picking 10th.. don't fall for it


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1839 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Aug 8, 2020 1:31 am

DaGawd wrote:We'll be picking 10th.. don't fall for it


Nope

If we fall to 10th another team will be making that selection because I have no doubt we’ll be trading that pick.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16! 

Post#1840 » by Zenzibar » Sat Aug 8, 2020 1:42 am

My gut feeling is that this is the type of player Walt Perrin likes, understated with a cool tenacity. Nevermind Tom Thibodeau, bet he's salivating to pair this kid with either Frank, RJ or both.

annnd with the 6th pick, the New York Knicks select Devin Vassal from Florida State University.

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