2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome)

[Pointgod]

Isnt the hill supposed to be liberal? Well heres one of their writers

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miss-manners-may-have-been-offended-but-trump-had-the-edge/ar-BB19zj81?ocid=msedgdhp

The Hill is far from Liberal. It’s a right wing news site but generally a good source of news, ignoring their opinion columns. Here’s a good graphic that shows media accuracy and political leanings.

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[Oscirus]

lol lara

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-had-to-fight-during-first-presidential-debate-because-of-biden-s-lies-lara-trump/vi-BB19zYR2?ocid=msedgntp

[Jeff Van Gully]

If you're an american that doesn't support Trump's militias and you're not looking into how to get a firearm right now you're part of the problem. **** that. The 2nd Amendment exists for literally this moment and as a collective the left is too cowardly to actually exercise those rights and win for once. Just roll over and die I guess.

you don't know how much thought and debate in my household there's been over this.

my wife and i have never owned guns. we live in the south. i'm from NY, but she's been down here pretty much her whole life. she is vehemently opposed to owning weapons, taking life, etc. i told her i respect that, but i'm not going out like that. i didn't come out of st. nick projects in the 80s by the skin of my knuckles... as tupac put it, "i done seen too many real [ones] fall to let you..." you know the rest.

i have some training and go to the range as a hobby/life skill. i've also taken up archery. hoped i'd never need to be a gun owner. but in this moment i refuse to be killed by white supremacists without a fight. even if futile, i'm clapping back. you come for my life, embrace the possibility of losing yours.

i'm disheartened at the notion of terror at the polls. trump has severely damaged if not already destroyed the fabric of our republic.

I agreed with everything you said up until that last sentence. Trump didn't damage or destroy this republic. He only revealed this republic's true character.

There are too many people who claim to be good people who stand by and watch atrocities be committed simply because it does not affect them. Ask any Trump supporter if they condemn white supremacy and they'll either do (say) what Trump does, or denounce it while still voting for him and supporting him in private. Republicans have terrorizing people at the polls for the last 20 years. Voter ID laws has taken the right to vote away from millions of people. There were less than 100 cases of voter fraud in 2010, but Republican state house nationwide passed voter ID laws once it became clear Obama was going to be the Democratic nominee. This isn't new. They're just bolder and more willing to admit it because it doesn't affect their livelihoods.

i agree with this. make no mistake, i did not think things were ever rosy in this country. obama era included. by that i meant trump is taking very clear measures to bring about the instability of even the experiment in theory. overt stuff. if people don't trust the voting process and the structure of demotratic representative government, we're in for a really fun time.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

true as it is, biden had the decency not to go there. but it's all i could think about.

But Biden could’ve slammed him for the North Dakota rally he had at Mt. Rushmore and the biker rally. ND’s numbers are bonkers now as a result.

it all deserves to be challenged.

he didn't organize the biker rally. but their behavior is in his name and fully aligned with his behavior. word.

[Pointgod]

Et Tu Rasmussen?

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[Oscirus]

Nice try timothy

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tim-scott-trump-refusal-to-condemn-white-supremacists-misspoke-debate-164403861.html

[E-Balla]

Listen people on the left have been setting the alarm for the past 4 years, back in 2016 when people were warning what Trump would lead to and begging to vote for Clinton. The problem started when enough Americans decided to allow this absolute lunatic gain power.

The left can scream as much as they want to, but Republicans DON’T GIVE A ****. There’s not a single person in Congress that will stand up to him. Everyone in the government is a Trump sycophant. The headlines in the media are still trying to play a both sides argument. The light has been flashing red for years. Democrats in Congress have no power because there’s another party in Congress the refuses to hold the President accountable. This is what a failed state looks like.

It doesn’t matter man, this was a mistake made by the voters and the only peaceful way to resolve this is to vote Trump and Republicans in the Senate out and do it decisively so Trump can shut the **** up.

We don't need Republicans to care. They obviously care more than we do, but they're openly fascists at this point. Democrats definitely have power. At the end of the day we're a majority of the people. We just clearly don't care enough about stopping fascism as they do about enacting it by any means necessary.

You're saying the only solution is to vote him out but again he's openly saying he will not leave office. ON THE DEBATE STAGE. Biden responded to this by basically ignoring him saying that. Again I feel like I'm in bizarro world or something here. Voting at this point is not going to get him out of office alone and the sooner we recognize that the sooner we can combat the fascist takeover he's pretty blatantly and openly planning and alluding to.

I mean if I was Joe Biden I would have said that Id personally drag his fat ass out of the Whitehouse by his hair plugs. However I’m not running for President. Republicans need to call out that Trump’s bull because that’s the only way to delegitimize his claims of voter fraud. It’s as simple as saying that no one should claim a win until every vote has been counted.

Why would Republicans call him out? They're fascists too! Why is the majority of this country putting the future of the nation in the hands of blatant fascists instead of doing something. **** dragging him out of office then, if I was Biden I would've turned directly to the camera and said, "this is a sitting president openly saying he will not peacefully leave office. At this point the American people have one choice, open revolution or become a dictatorship. I will do everything in my power to keep American democracy alive and if you support this behavior you are also an enemy of the people." Like why are we acting like this is something against Trump personally. My governor didn't win his **** election. The first presidential election I remember in my life was stolen. American democracy has been dying for a while, now it's dead. Let's not pretend this isn't something to make a big deal about. And I mean Civil War type big deal.

And here’s the thing with Trump’s bluster. All he’s doing is setting up an excuse when he loses. Does that look like a man that’s confident in himself? Now I agree that his he’s inciting domestic terrorists because his supporters can’t tell that it’s a built in excuse so it shouldn’t be taken lightly. But if Biden wins, come January 21 there’s no way for Trump to stay. The only way the election can be stolen is if it’s close in all of the swing states, but Trump as telegraphed every single one of his plays, so they’ll rightly be thrown out in court. And there’s one way to ensure it’s not close, vote early, vote in person and vote in large numbers.

Excuse? He's openly saying he won't win but it doesn't matter. That's not an excuse that's him saying American democracy is dead with him in office. He's daring Democrats to do anything about it. And Biden folded.

There's no way for Trump to stay? The arrogance of Americans. Yeah because we've never seen Democratic countries taken over by a single strong man, political support, and hard support from a minority of the country before?

If it's not close it doesn't matter. At all. He's openly saying he won't respect the results. His voters are saying the same. They're heavily armed and already mobilizing against protests and killing people. You're talking about the courts throwing it out, how'd that work in 2000? Wasn't the whole goal of Mitch the last decade to stack the courts with Republican loyalists? Isn't Trump about to secure a 6-3 SCOTUS majority?

Like everything you're saying is basically boiling down to "well I hope the Republicans act in good faith and respect democracy!" As if we don't have decades of evidence showing they don't, and as if they're not directly telling us they don't every time they get the chance.

[Clyde_Style]

this is the problem with all the "good" people who "aren't like that" but still ride in this car.

edit: not singling anyone out, especially MP. but, word. don't know how you reconcile this.

They're fascists. Trump literally is gathering his brownshirts and telling them to stand by, then giving them the order to join his "army" and intimidate voters. You're a mod bro if you don't ban everyone on this damn website that's openly saying they're going to vote for him you're part of the problem just as much as they are for continuing to let them spread this propaganda.

Like really people are killing me right now. America deserves this bull.

we clearly agree, but i don't get to ban people based on who they want to vote for.

Should I take this as clarification that I am now permitted to say to someone you're a Nazi if you support Trump without being the one threatened with a ban?

Because that is what this board became last month and I avoided it because I can't support the rhetoric that was directed towards me. I'm going to confront people for their beliefs while saying they can express their vulgar views even if I disagree with them with every fiber of my being. And I'm not a bully for doing that. I was just saying what others felt was inappropriate to say, but how can we survive as a nation if we play pretend nice but don't say the full truth about supporting Trump and every single person who supports him?

The Nazis got less than 4% of the vote in the 1920s, but enough Germans were docile enough to let them dominate the conversation until they gained power. And now we have an actual Nazi in power trying to consolidate his grip and institute a 4th Reich. Why should anyone be banned for speaking the truth about that? Me asking lurkers why won't they identify themselves was NOT bullying. It was a challenge to them to show their faces which does not undermine the right to vote in a poll anonymously which I still support. They can show their faces and I'd maybe even talk to them, but then at least I'd know which Avatar is a Nazi and they'd find the courage to be who they really are. I think every person who voted for Trump in this poll without identifying themselves is a coward and I should be able to say that without being threatened with a ban.

I'm just tired of watered down liberalism which all too often kow tows to political correctness which includes the vanity of being nice towards people who are clearly supporting the destruction of every right we hold. I can look a Nazi in the face and say what I have to say calmly and deliberately without losing my crap and I'd like people to embrace that attitude here. That doesn't prevent Nazis from posting, but it makes them aware they will be called out for what they are when they do. That is what seemed fair to me all along and instead the mods settled for a "Don't Call Names" policy which did not address the "Telling the Truth" problem.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Nice try timothy

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tim-scott-trump-refusal-to-condemn-white-supremacists-misspoke-debate-164403861.html

so so bad.

note: i am fielding no more tim scott questions.

[E-Balla]

I'm still kinda shocked at how many neoliberals and so called revolutionary leftists are ignoring his obvious call to action... Like Trump is mobilizing his brownshirts, where's the political leaders openly calling for impeachment and squashing this before we end up the Weimar Republic 2.0.

Like at this point it's not even being overboard to say Trump came mask off, full 100% fascist, and it seems like no one with the power to do anything is taking it any type of seriously. Like why are they discussing Trump saying he will use the SCOTUS to take power regardless of the vote and calling on his brownshirts to murder people and guard the polls the same way we talked about him grabbing women by the pussy? Like one is vulgar and rape, the other is literally him openly saying he will and has already started a fascist takeover of the country.

That link Clyde_Style posted that Trump tweeted for his poll watchers is armyfortrump.com it's not even like it's not blatant. It's as open as open could be. Like seriously he should've been arrested by federal agents ON STAGE after saying that ****.

Like WTF is wrong with the American left? Are we as a collective just stupid and **** and deserving of this because at this point I feel like we must be.

Trump will go to prison for insurance fraud and tax evasion, but real justice would be to try and convict him of domestic terrorism.

He's been inciting crime since he got elected. Nobody ever brings up the Balitmore news room where staff were slaughtered by a crazy who was egged on by Trump calling the press the enemy of the people.

These lunatics ingest Trump's BS like he's their prophet and his message is to kill the opposition.

Trump is a terrorist

Trump won't go to prison. I give him a 0% chance of fairly winning the election, a 20% chance of throwing out enough ballots to get an EC win, a 20% chance of him contesting the results and the conservative SCOTUS giving him the election like they did Bush, and a 10% chance of him losing badly and just refusing to leave office while he lets his militias and secret federal police force take care of the protesters that will arise in the wake of that. There's too many people expecting Republicans to suddenly stop supporting his fascist tendencies.

[Jeff Van Gully]

They're fascists. Trump literally is gathering his brownshirts and telling them to stand by, then giving them the order to join his "army" and intimidate voters. You're a mod bro if you don't ban everyone on this damn website that's openly saying they're going to vote for him you're part of the problem just as much as they are for continuing to let them spread this propaganda.

Like really people are killing me right now. America deserves this bull.

we clearly agree, but i don't get to ban people based on who they want to vote for.

Should I take this as clarification that I am now permitted to say to someone you're a Nazi if you support Trump without being the one threatened with a ban?

not sure where you get that.

i said i don't get to ban people because they are trump supporters, not that we're allowed to generalize or namecall. but you're also allowed to in earnest speak to your own political beliefs and understanding. there are ways to do that without targeting individuals or bullying. i'd think so long as you avoid those things you'd be fine.

if you want to appeal previous disciplinary action that might be better for a DM with mods/admins.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm still kinda shocked at how many neoliberals and so called revolutionary leftists are ignoring his obvious call to action... Like Trump is mobilizing his brownshirts, where's the political leaders openly calling for impeachment and squashing this before we end up the Weimar Republic 2.0.

Like at this point it's not even being overboard to say Trump came mask off, full 100% fascist, and it seems like no one with the power to do anything is taking it any type of seriously. Like why are they discussing Trump saying he will use the SCOTUS to take power regardless of the vote and calling on his brownshirts to murder people and guard the polls the same way we talked about him grabbing women by the pussy? Like one is vulgar and rape, the other is literally him openly saying he will and has already started a fascist takeover of the country.

That link Clyde_Style posted that Trump tweeted for his poll watchers is armyfortrump.com it's not even like it's not blatant. It's as open as open could be. Like seriously he should've been arrested by federal agents ON STAGE after saying that ****.

Like WTF is wrong with the American left? Are we as a collective just stupid and **** and deserving of this because at this point I feel like we must be.

Trump will go to prison for insurance fraud and tax evasion, but real justice would be to try and convict him of domestic terrorism.

He's been inciting crime since he got elected. Nobody ever brings up the Balitmore news room where staff were slaughtered by a crazy who was egged on by Trump calling the press the enemy of the people.

These lunatics ingest Trump's BS like he's their prophet and his message is to kill the opposition.

Trump is a terrorist

Proud Boys is on the FBI domestic terrorists list

The Nazi I know here in Florida got all worked up when I said the Proud Boys were White Supremacists. And that was almost a year ago. He got all indignant and said they were a decent, non-violent right wing protest group, blah, blah, blah. It's always the same BS with these guys. Denials and then a What About Hillary for good measure

[Clyde_Style]

I'm still kinda shocked at how many neoliberals and so called revolutionary leftists are ignoring his obvious call to action... Like Trump is mobilizing his brownshirts, where's the political leaders openly calling for impeachment and squashing this before we end up the Weimar Republic 2.0.

Like at this point it's not even being overboard to say Trump came mask off, full 100% fascist, and it seems like no one with the power to do anything is taking it any type of seriously. Like why are they discussing Trump saying he will use the SCOTUS to take power regardless of the vote and calling on his brownshirts to murder people and guard the polls the same way we talked about him grabbing women by the pussy? Like one is vulgar and rape, the other is literally him openly saying he will and has already started a fascist takeover of the country.

That link Clyde_Style posted that Trump tweeted for his poll watchers is armyfortrump.com it's not even like it's not blatant. It's as open as open could be. Like seriously he should've been arrested by federal agents ON STAGE after saying that ****.

Like WTF is wrong with the American left? Are we as a collective just stupid and **** and deserving of this because at this point I feel like we must be.

Trump will go to prison for insurance fraud and tax evasion, but real justice would be to try and convict him of domestic terrorism.

He's been inciting crime since he got elected. Nobody ever brings up the Balitmore news room where staff were slaughtered by a crazy who was egged on by Trump calling the press the enemy of the people.

These lunatics ingest Trump's BS like he's their prophet and his message is to kill the opposition.

Trump is a terrorist

Trump won't go to prison. I give him a 0% chance of fairly winning the election, a 20% chance of throwing out enough ballots to get an EC win, a 20% chance of him contesting the results and the conservative SCOTUS giving him the election like they did Bush, and a 10% chance of him losing badly and just refusing to leave office while he lets his militias and secret federal police force take care of the protesters that will arise in the wake of that. There's too many people expecting Republicans to suddenly stop supporting his fascist tendencies.

Even Republicans who deliver our mail are insulted by what Trump and this creep DeJoy have done to the USPS. There are tens of thousands of mail carriers with eyes everywhere watching this process and it won't be so easy to dump bails of ballots into the river like some think. Those USPS employees have had their jobs and pensions threatened and are now an army of spies watching every move.

I understand your pessimism and I also expect violence, but I still think the votes will get counted and we will pull through. For Trump to steal this election when the margins are not that close would require major coordination by corrupt officials in enough swing states to doctor their vote counts down to a local level. And in most of those jurisdictions the Democrats hold the top position so even if some were that corrupt, you don't have the GOP in power in the places they'd need to pull that off.

[Clyde_Style]

we clearly agree, but i don't get to ban people based on who they want to vote for.

Should I take this as clarification that I am now permitted to say to someone you're a Nazi if you support Trump without being the one threatened with a ban?

not sure where you get that.

i said i don't get to ban people because they are trump supporters, not that we're allowed to generalize or namecall. but you're also allowed to in earnest speak to your own political beliefs and understanding. there are ways to do that without targeting individuals or bullying. i'd think so long as you avoid those things you'd be fine.

if you want to appeal previous disciplinary action that might be better for a DM with mods/admins.

I do think you know where I got that from since you were the mod that singled me out while another poster was left unmentioned immediately after they had called the board a bunch of poor black folks. It was unbalanced and taken personally by me

[Kampuchea]

Should I take this as clarification that I am now permitted to say to someone you're a Nazi if you support Trump without being the one threatened with a ban?

not sure where you get that.

i said i don't get to ban people because they are trump supporters, not that we're allowed to generalize or namecall. but you're also allowed to in earnest speak to your own political beliefs and understanding. there are ways to do that without targeting individuals or bullying. i'd think so long as you avoid those things you'd be fine.

if you want to appeal previous disciplinary action that might be better for a DM with mods/admins.

I do think you know where I got that from since you were the mod that singled me out while another poster was left unmentioned immediately after they had called the board a bunch of poor black folks. It was unbalanced and taken personally by me

I never took JVG as one to do something like that, you must be confused about what happened or simple miscommunication.

[Clyde_Style]

Isnt the hill supposed to be liberal? Well heres one of their writers

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miss-manners-may-have-been-offended-but-trump-had-the-edge/ar-BB19zj81?ocid=msedgdhp

The Hill is far from Liberal. It’s a right wing news site but generally a good source of news, ignoring their opinion columns. Here’s a good graphic that shows media accuracy and political leanings.

Read on Twitter

As much as I appreciate the sentiment, that chart is deeply flawed

Reuters became suspect as soon as they partnered with Russia's news agency

The bottom left quadrant equates Mensch with Infowars. She's kind of wacky and has gotten some things wrong, but she's got alternative sources and some grey hat hackers who give her data I haven't seen anywhere else and was way ahead of the curve on multiple items like Assange, Prince, Russian connections the media has either ducked or taken years to report on

Putting the Intercept on the same level as the other publications in the complex analysis row belies the completely flawed construction of this graph.

All it does is allocate two criteria: Overall Quality and Partisanship

and the choice of overall quality is SUBJECTIVE and in some cases very questionable IMO

It would be more valuable as a FACT CHECKING graph, otherwise it is just another form of world view positioning (aka someone else's propaganda)

[Clyde_Style]

not sure where you get that.

i said i don't get to ban people because they are trump supporters, not that we're allowed to generalize or namecall. but you're also allowed to in earnest speak to your own political beliefs and understanding. there are ways to do that without targeting individuals or bullying. i'd think so long as you avoid those things you'd be fine.

if you want to appeal previous disciplinary action that might be better for a DM with mods/admins.

I do think you know where I got that from since you were the mod that singled me out while another poster was left unmentioned immediately after they had called the board a bunch of poor black folks. It was unbalanced and taken personally by me

I never took JVG as one to do something like that, you must be confused about what happened or simple miscommunication.

You directing a crazy emoji at me is the kind of unintended irony I've grown to expect from you

[Fury]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[robillionaire]

Isnt the hill supposed to be liberal? Well heres one of their writers

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/miss-manners-may-have-been-offended-but-trump-had-the-edge/ar-BB19zj81?ocid=msedgdhp

The Hill is far from Liberal. It’s a right wing news site but generally a good source of news, ignoring their opinion columns. Here’s a good graphic that shows media accuracy and political leanings.

Read on Twitter

As much as I appreciate the sentiment, that chart is deeply flawed

Reuters became suspect as soon as they partnered with Russia's news agency

The bottom left quadrant equates Mensch with Infowars. She's kind of wacky and has gotten some things wrong, but she's got alternative sources and some grey hat hackers who give her data I haven't seen anywhere else and was way ahead of the curve on multiple items like Assange, Prince, Russian connections the media has either ducked or taken years to report on

Putting the Intercept on the same level as the other publications in the complex analysis row belies the completely flawed construction of this graph.

All it does is allocate two criteria: Overall Quality and Partisanship

and the choice of overall quality is SUBJECTIVE and in some cases very questionable IMO

It would be more valuable as a FACT CHECKING graph, otherwise it is just another form of world view positioning (aka someone else's propaganda)

the whole thing is subjective because everybody thinks the news they watch which is usually the ones that align with their previously held beliefs are the true and correct ones

[Clyde_Style]

The Hill is far from Liberal. It’s a right wing news site but generally a good source of news, ignoring their opinion columns. Here’s a good graphic that shows media accuracy and political leanings.

Read on Twitter

As much as I appreciate the sentiment, that chart is deeply flawed

Reuters became suspect as soon as they partnered with Russia's news agency

The bottom left quadrant equates Mensch with Infowars. She's kind of wacky and has gotten some things wrong, but she's got alternative sources and some grey hat hackers who give her data I haven't seen anywhere else and was way ahead of the curve on multiple items like Assange, Prince, Russian connections the media has either ducked or taken years to report on

Putting the Intercept on the same level as the other publications in the complex analysis row belies the completely flawed construction of this graph.

All it does is allocate two criteria: Overall Quality and Partisanship

and the choice of overall quality is SUBJECTIVE and in some cases very questionable IMO

It would be more valuable as a FACT CHECKING graph, otherwise it is just another form of world view positioning (aka someone else's propaganda)

the whole thing is subjective because everybody thinks the news they watch which is usually the ones that align with their previously held beliefs are the true and correct ones

Yes, the rise of social media platforms weaponized the cultivation of reality distortion tunnels that effectively breed political cults impervious to facts

Which is why fact checking is critical, regardless of whether some cults resist any form of objective verification. Ultimately, it is the wishy washy, mealy minded middle of the population that allows fascism to take root and to them you do need some factual basis to point to and say here's the facts Jack, you go GOP now you support x, y and z, you go DEM you support x, y and z

The abundance of false equivalencies are a sign of failing democracies and they are produced by partisans across the political spectrum simply because bias always creeps in and intrudes on the facts

If I say Trump is a Nazi I'm fully prepared to provide specific analogues rooted in historical fact to show why fascism is here and why history is repeating itself

And the reason I let so much abuse bounce off me starting four years ago is because I KNEW well in advance what Trump was and that by dint of his actions during his tenure he would produce the fresh FACTS that match up with historical precedent

IOW, people poo poohing me for saying Trump was a Nazi four years ago was somewhat understandable so I took it in stride, but now that the facts are in there is no excuse for such ignorance. The corrollaries between Trump and Hitler (or any number of other dictators) are there in spades and it isn't really disputable any longer no matter how much some of his supporters will protest about the comparison

The facts are Trump is hell bent on destroying the Constitution (you don't get to cherry pick the right to bear arms for your militia supporters and claim you are pro-Constitution), stealing the election, empowering white supremacists and using whatever means he can get away with to crush his opponents. Those are facts and that is exactly what Hitler did in his rise to establishing the Third Reich. Trump is the Fourth Reich and it is why he is worshipped by Nazis worldwide. That's a fact Jack