Trades and Transactions Thread - Preseason and Beyond

[Deeeez Knicks]

Is Burks even an upgrade over Payne, Shamet or Deuce?

[nykballa2k4]

Is Burks even an upgrade over Payne, Shamet or Deuce?

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Is Burks even an upgrade over Payne, Shamet or Deuce?

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

[nykballa2k4]

Is Burks even an upgrade over Payne, Shamet or Deuce?

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

Which is super tricky since right now we have 3 rotation level guys with some size (KAT, Precious, Mitch).
The only non-min we can deal is Deuce who is deservedly adored here.
Maybe Cam for Theis? min for min? but we are really desperate here and don't have a lot of flexibility. Our best options might wind up being guys who get cut.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

Which is super tricky since right now we have 3 rotation level guys with some size (KAT, Precious, Mitch).
The only non-min we can deal is Deuce who is deservedly adored here.
Maybe Cam for Theis? min for min? but we are really desperate here and don't have a lot of flexibility. Our best options might wind up being guys who get cut.

True, not many options. I want to see Dadiet or someone else get some more minutes. We could use a young energy guy just to give some effort and chew a few minutes. Or play Tyler more when Deuce is out.

Tyler, Deuce, Cam, Shamet….they are all nba players that can play some minutes.

[Jeffrey]

Is Burks even an upgrade over Payne, Shamet or Deuce?

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

We need a firepower off the bench... that's what Burks. We know he is a good defender and the most important trait... Thibs is willing to play him 20+ mins.

My trade idea also adds Mitch, Precious and 2nd rounder for Jonas and Saddiq Bey.

Bey is a 6'7 SF that can also get buckets. Jonas is a dependable backup center that also has a range beyond the arc. Oh, his legs aren't made of dorito chips.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Deuce is the best of that bunch.
Burks and Payne have different functions. Burks is a better defender, he is NOT a point guard. Cam is a point guard, he can run the offense, can handle ball pressure etc.

Shamet and TyKo, IMO, make Cam redundant as we also have better players (Brunson, McBride) who can fill those needs as well.

Burks can play SF with a modicum of respectability. We lack players 6'5"+. Frankly we lack rotational players 6'8"+ but that's what makes me itch.

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

We need a firepower off the bench... that's what Burks. We know he is a good defender and the most important trait... Thibs is willing to play him 20+ mins.

My trade idea also adds Mitch, Precious and 2nd rounder for Jonas and Saddiq Bey.

Bey is a 6'7 SF that can also get buckets. Jonas is a dependable backup center that also has a range beyond the arc. Oh, his legs aren't made of dorito chips.

Burks had some nice moments in the playoffs, but was pretty bad in the regular season last year for us. Thibs benched him he was so bad so not sure if he would get a lot of minutes. Possibly an upgrade over Shamet, but I am not sure.

Bey is still recovering from ACL surgery….he would be a good pickup if healthy but not sure when he will come back? Might be months away.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Finding out Payne makes 2 million and not 6 million out a major damper in my trade machine fun.

[R-DAWG]

Yea, that’s kind of what I mean. We have a bunch of guards. I would look to bring in someone bigger with more length if we are making a move…or at least someone who’s a significant upgrade.

Which is super tricky since right now we have 3 rotation level guys with some size (KAT, Precious, Mitch).
The only non-min we can deal is Deuce who is deservedly adored here.
Maybe Cam for Theis? min for min? but we are really desperate here and don't have a lot of flexibility. Our best options might wind up being guys who get cut.

True, not many options. I want to see Dadiet or someone else get some more minutes. We could use a young energy guy just to give some effort and chew a few minutes. Or play Tyler more when Deuce is out.

Tyler, Deuce, Cam, Shamet….they are all nba players that can play some minutes.

Maybe we don't have the luxury of paying a #4 option max money.

I'm starting to think the only path to a complete roster is breaking OG into two quality rotation players and draft assets, then using those draft assets to upgrade Mitch and/or Precious salary slot.

This team has all the makings of a team that peaks before the all-star break (again), is beat up come playoff time (again), all leading to another 2nd rd exit.

When you look at the lack of payroll flexibility with the new CBA and the draft picks traded, we may be looking at the most expensive treadmill team of all time.

[R-DAWG]

Knicks don't have the pick assets for either Kessler or sexton, let alone both.

I think neither Sexton nor Kessler are players they want to keep paying moving forward. Dadiet and Kolek might be players they value, however. Robinson is cost-controlled and on a decreasing contact. Utah is a rebuilding team. You may have to add picks, but this trade of Robinson, Payne, Kolek and Dadiet plus a pick or two already saves Utah 7 million in salary next season before Kessler’s extension. If Kessler’s new deal is only 15 million per - and it will likely be more - this trade saves Utah 20-22 million in salary next year while still giving them a decent starting center next to Markkanen in Robinson as well as Dadiet, Kolek and draft compensation to build with.

I do not think that’s very bad.

Kolek and Dadiet have very little value around the league. Neither guy is earning consistent NBA minutes and likely have the trade value of a 2nd rd pick. Call and spade a spade, once a player is drafted his value drops well below the pick he was selected with until he proves otherwise on the court.

Also - take a look at the Knicks remaining tradable draft capital, not much to play with there, including 2nd rd picks.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Which is super tricky since right now we have 3 rotation level guys with some size (KAT, Precious, Mitch).
The only non-min we can deal is Deuce who is deservedly adored here.
Maybe Cam for Theis? min for min? but we are really desperate here and don't have a lot of flexibility. Our best options might wind up being guys who get cut.

True, not many options. I want to see Dadiet or someone else get some more minutes. We could use a young energy guy just to give some effort and chew a few minutes. Or play Tyler more when Deuce is out.

Tyler, Deuce, Cam, Shamet….they are all nba players that can play some minutes.

Maybe we don't have the luxury of paying a #4 option max money.

I'm starting to think the only path to a complete roster is breaking OG into two quality rotation players and draft assets, then using those draft assets to upgrade Mitch and/or Precious salary slot.

This team has all the makings of a team that peaks before the all-star break (again), is beat up come playoff time (again), all leading to another 2nd rd exit.

When you look at the lack of payroll flexibility with the new CBA and the draft picks traded, we may be looking at the most expensive treadmill team of all time.

Possibly as a last resort….but really way too soon for a move like that imo. OG is incredibly important.

Like a normal team, Thibs needs to do better with developing the bench over the course of the season like every other team in the league. I mean, Deuce, Cam, Shamet, Tyler, Prescious, Mitch….its not even that bad. when/if Mitch gets back he will give us a nice boost. But we need to play guys and get them in a groove and figure out which guys work and don’t work. Giving them quick triggers and riding the starters just doesn’t work long term. Too much coaching for the moment.

we could still use an upgrade but until that comes we need to play who we have.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Our bench actually has the 7th best net rating in the league

[R-DAWG]

True, not many options. I want to see Dadiet or someone else get some more minutes. We could use a young energy guy just to give some effort and chew a few minutes. Or play Tyler more when Deuce is out.

Tyler, Deuce, Cam, Shamet….they are all nba players that can play some minutes.

Maybe we don't have the luxury of paying a #4 option max money.

I'm starting to think the only path to a complete roster is breaking OG into two quality rotation players and draft assets, then using those draft assets to upgrade Mitch and/or Precious salary slot.

This team has all the makings of a team that peaks before the all-star break (again), is beat up come playoff time (again), all leading to another 2nd rd exit.

When you look at the lack of payroll flexibility with the new CBA and the draft picks traded, we may be looking at the most expensive treadmill team of all time.

Possibly as a last resort….but really way too soon for a move like that imo. OG is incredibly important.

Like a normal team, Thibs needs to do better with developing the bench over the course of the season like every other team in the league. I mean, Deuce, Cam, Shamet, Tyler, Prescious, Mitch….its not even that bad. when/if Mitch gets back he will give us a nice boost. But we need to play guys and get them in a groove and figure out which guys work and don’t work. Giving them quick triggers and riding the starters just doesn’t work long term. Too much coaching for the moment.

we could still use an upgrade but until that comes we need to play who we have.

Agree Thibs need to play the bench more, but this is how he coaches. His teams overachieve in the regular season because he plays his top guys heavy minutes, and the rosters win 5-7 more games than their overall talent will suggest.

I just don’t see the moves right now. Our 1st rd picks are all gone. Our 2nd rd pick stash is depleted with very few decent value picks available. Mitch’s value is at an all time low. Precious doesn’t make enough to bring back an impact player and there is no room below the 2nd apron to do a 2 for 1.

This isn’t exactly a great situation. Your either a 48 win team trying to make a run from the 6th seed or a burnt out 55 win team come playoff time.

[Spree2Houston]

I made this comment yesterday and I think this is probably the most realistic trade

Pacome Dadiat + 2nd round pick for Alec Burks

Mitch Robinson, Precious and 2nd round pick for Jonas Valuncinas and Saddiq Bey

Take tomorrow off

[spree8]

Maybe we don't have the luxury of paying a #4 option max money.

I'm starting to think the only path to a complete roster is breaking OG into two quality rotation players and draft assets, then using those draft assets to upgrade Mitch and/or Precious salary slot.

This team has all the makings of a team that peaks before the all-star break (again), is beat up come playoff time (again), all leading to another 2nd rd exit.

When you look at the lack of payroll flexibility with the new CBA and the draft picks traded, we may be looking at the most expensive treadmill team of all time.

Possibly as a last resort….but really way too soon for a move like that imo. OG is incredibly important.

Like a normal team, Thibs needs to do better with developing the bench over the course of the season like every other team in the league. I mean, Deuce, Cam, Shamet, Tyler, Prescious, Mitch….its not even that bad. when/if Mitch gets back he will give us a nice boost. But we need to play guys and get them in a groove and figure out which guys work and don’t work. Giving them quick triggers and riding the starters just doesn’t work long term. Too much coaching for the moment.

we could still use an upgrade but until that comes we need to play who we have.

Agree Thibs need to play the bench more, but this is how he coaches. His teams overachieve in the regular season because he plays his top guys heavy minutes, and the rosters win 5-7 more games than their overall talent will suggest.

I just don’t see the moves right now. Our 1st rd picks are all gone. Our 2nd rd pick stash is depleted with very few decent value picks available. Mitch’s value is at an all time low. Precious doesn’t make enough to bring back an impact player and there is no room below the 2nd apron to do a 2 for 1.

This isn’t exactly a great situation. Your either a 48 win team trying to make a run from the 6th seed or a burnt out 55 win team come playoff time.

I’d gladly take 48 wins and the 6th seed with our starters logging no more than 35 mpg and not chronically fatigued come playoff time.

[WaltFrazier]

SI.com two recent articles on Dadiet

1. Knicks made the mistake of drafting a long term project when the team is in win now mode.

https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/zach-buckley-questions-new-york-knicks-draft-decision

"They entered with two first-round picks (Nos. 24 and 25), traded one away and spent the other on a long-term-project prospect in Pacome Dadiet, who could be years away from logging significant minutes on a good team," Buckley writes.

"There were plug-and-play options on the board—Ryan Dunn waves hello—but New York bet big on upside. That's fine in a vacuum, but it's not as great when it was the one deviation from the win-right-now principle that guided the rest of the Knicks' offseason."

2. https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-knicks-rookie-pacome-dadiet-due-breakout

Misleading headline, the article says Dadiet has talent but not going to crack rotation this year. We really needed a 6'8 veteran signing rather than Shamet, we have enough guards. An athletic 3-4 man to spell OG, Hart and Bridges would have really helped.

[sol537]

It’s not the roster, it’s Thibs. Anyway… with all that said and with the mistakes Thibs continues to make we still have the 4th best record in the league. Maybe we’ll hit another level when Mitch returns. We’re not that far off…

[Jeffrey]

I made this comment yesterday and I think this is probably the most realistic trade

Pacome Dadiat + 2nd round pick for Alec Burks

Mitch Robinson, Precious and 2nd round pick for Jonas Valuncinas and Saddiq Bey

Take tomorrow off

Like take a day off and get Leon to take those trades

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I made this comment yesterday and I think this is probably the most realistic trade

Pacome Dadiat + 2nd round pick for Alec Burks

Mitch Robinson, Precious and 2nd round pick for Jonas Valuncinas and Saddiq Bey

Take tomorrow off

Like take a day off and get Leon to take those trades

We traded Grimes and 2 second round picks for Burks last year, you now want to trade another second rd pick and our most recent 1st round pick for Burks yet again? Take today off.

[R-DAWG]

SI.com two recent articles on Dadiet

1. Knicks made the mistake of drafting a long term project when the team is in win now mode.

https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/zach-buckley-questions-new-york-knicks-draft-decision

"They entered with two first-round picks (Nos. 24 and 25), traded one away and spent the other on a long-term-project prospect in Pacome Dadiet, who could be years away from logging significant minutes on a good team," Buckley writes.

"There were plug-and-play options on the board—Ryan Dunn waves hello—but New York bet big on upside. That's fine in a vacuum, but it's not as great when it was the one deviation from the win-right-now principle that guided the rest of the Knicks' offseason."

2. https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-knicks-rookie-pacome-dadiet-due-breakout

Misleading headline, the article says Dadiet has talent but not going to crack rotation this year. We really needed a 6'8 veteran signing rather than Shamet, we have enough guards. An athletic 3-4 man to spell OG, Hart and Bridges would have really helped.

The Knicks drafted Dadiet because he signed below slot. Without that, the path to filling 14 roster slots was difficult.

Another ancillary affect of the high cost of Bridges/Anunoby.