2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[Jalen Bluntson]

This team needs either someone who can create offense for themselves or create offense for others off the bench. Don’t think you can go into playoffs without either of those. I like Olynyk but if you’re not getting back Sexton or Clarkson I think that second unit is gonna run into the same issues as last year. Yes you can theoretically run the offense through Olynyk, but don’t think that should be a primary objective of his role off the bench in a playoff situation.

Tyus Jones doesn’t seem like a bad option if you’re looking for playmaking. He’s a free agent this offseason so he’d be a short term option for this season only.

There are several things going on.

We don't know if the FO is in "hoard all assets besides getting OG" mode. If so, they'll make ZERO deals.

Do they want to do some small low cost deals to make any playoff round better, but they really don't care - getting a back up C for the rest of the year, some "meh" vet PG... etc

Do they want a "continuous soup" deal, where they convert Fourniers contract into a somewhat useful player for the now, but really with a trade in the offseason in mind - Brogdan and/or Murrary

Do they really value Murray?

Kind of have to trust in Aller/The collective.

Brogdan\Olynyk are "do they want to try and make some noise THIS playoffs but also help moving forward BUT, the FO might view it as not worth the assets.

Exactly. What are they focused on? Smaller minimal moves to plug some holes for this year that don't hurt the future or, slightly bigger trades that roll Evans contract into a Murray type deal for the future star trade assets. They can go either way IMO.

The bench scoring and backup big issues are more about this years team. We have time to see what the leftover cast becomes but, not too much time. Other teams are looking to improve too. Where do we draw the line before the weak market dries up?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Grimes
Fournier
Mavs 1st
Obi TPE

for

Colin Sexton
Kelly O

Jazz seemed to like Grimes last year and currently have no 2024 1sts

We get the IQ replacement/ball handler of the bench spark and add a big who can stretch the floor a bit. Sexton has been lauded as a good defender in the past. He's not as good nor does he have the potential of IQ imo but Thibs would like his mentality on defense.

Brunson/Sexton
Donte/Sexton
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Precious
Hartenstein/Kelly O


I think this team can make an ECF run if things go right then look to Go big game hunting again next season with the remaining picks and swaps plus Sexton or Randle + Mitch to secure the true Star.

Wishful thinking maybe but hey

This is… pretty nice. Either that or a play for Brogdon makes sense. Olynyk and Sexton would make our bench devastating. Ainge is probably going to help Boston over us by sending them Olynyk.

Jazz fans were actually cool with just Fournier + WSH FRP + SRP for Olnyk + our choice of Sexton or Clarkson. No need to include Grimes or that Dallas FRP.

Jazz fans are not Danny Ainge.

[cgf]

These are the most appealing options for that Fournier contract, IMO...though for 4-6 we'd need to find a separate trade using Achuiwa+ to trade for a backup Center making 9M or less.

1. Fournier + Arcidiacono + Sims + WSH FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Olnyk + Sexton/Clarkson
2. Fournier + Sims/Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Gafford + Tyus Jones
3. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Rozier + Richards (Toppin TPE)
4. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Brogdon
5. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Hield
6. Fournier + DiVincenzo + Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + DET FRP (1-18, 1-13, 1-11, 1-9) <---> Lavine

[cgf]

Getting Drummond for cheap is just to back up iShart for rest of this year. Would have to be low cost, if no better options available

I'd rather give those minutes to Jericho Sims.

Simms kind of sucks

That was my point

[Jalen Bluntson]

These are the most appealing options for that Fournier contract, IMO...though for 4-6 we'd need to find a separate trade using Achuiwa+ to trade for a backup Center making 9M or less.

1. Fournier + Arcidiacono + Sims + WSH FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Olnyk + Sexton/Clarkson
2. Fournier + Sims/Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Gafford + Tyus Jones
3. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Rozier + Richards (Toppin TPE)
4. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Brogdon
5. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Hield
6. Fournier + DiVincenzo + Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + DET FRP (1-18, 1-13, 1-11, 1-9) <---> Lavine

That last one is terrible!

[cgf]

Murray would be the perfect counter guard to go along with Brunson. He can guard the best of the 2 backcourt players and let OG handle the best wing. He would allow the Knicks to be able to stagger lineups in the 2nd and early 4th as the bench unit playmaker along with either Randle or OG out there with him while the other guys get some rest.

I just don't see it. Murray has been a bad defender for 3 years now and he scores as efficiently as RJ.

Murray is surrounded by bad defenders in Atlanta. He shoots the ball decently from 3 and over 50% from 3-10 feet in. Thibs doesn't want his guys shooting mid range shots anyway. Think of him as more of an IQ replacement that you can start because of his size.

Jalen Johnson, Capela, & Okongwu are good defenders, and Hunter's not bad, even though he has gotten a lot lazier since getting paid. Atlanta's backcourt defense is a joke and Murray is a big part of why...and Atlanta's lack of guard defenders doesn't explain why Murray's defense started going downhill before he left SAS.


For the past 32 games Murray has shot the 3 decently, before that he shot it almost exactly as well as Randle has shot the 3 for us...career 34.1% for DJM vs 33.7% for Julius as a knick...and this is the first season where Murray's scoring more efficiently than RJ Barrett...

The idea of Dejounte Murray makes sense, but the reality is a lot less interesting for a team that spent so many years watching RJ get hot for a couple of months before regressing to his norms, and so should know better than to get suckered in by 30 game hot streak from one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA.

[cgf]

These are the most appealing options for that Fournier contract, IMO...though for 4-6 we'd need to find a separate trade using Achuiwa+ to trade for a backup Center making 9M or less.

1. Fournier + Arcidiacono + Sims + WSH FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Olnyk + Sexton/Clarkson
2. Fournier + Sims/Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Gafford + Tyus Jones
3. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + Utah/MIA SRP <---> Rozier + Richards (Toppin TPE)
4. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Brogdon
5. Fournier + 24 NYK/DAL FRP <---> Hield
6. Fournier + DiVincenzo + Arcidiacono + 24 NYK/DAL FRP + DET FRP (1-18, 1-13, 1-11, 1-9) <---> Lavine

That last one is terrible!

If you say so

[cgf]

This is… pretty nice. Either that or a play for Brogdon makes sense. Olynyk and Sexton would make our bench devastating. Ainge is probably going to help Boston over us by sending them Olynyk.

Jazz fans were actually cool with just Fournier + WSH FRP + SRP for Olnyk + our choice of Sexton or Clarkson. No need to include Grimes or that Dallas FRP.

Jazz fans are not Danny Ainge.

Yeah, they're probably looking for more than Ainge would IRL, but it gives us an idea of what the realistic ceiling on their price would be.

Ainge guards his premium assets tightly, which is where he gets his reputation from, but he just hemorrhages depth pieces on the cheap.

[KnixinSix]

Based on the rumors it certainly feels like Murray is our top trade target at the moment. News will likely heat up again shortly as he is eligible to be traded Jan 5 (Friday). If the rumors are accurate sounds like us and Lakers. Wonder if that meeting between Rose and Rich Paul (Klutch) happens before then.

Lakers are odd.

They have Reaves and JLo.

Murray would seem to add the same issues JLo has, where he's good, can be that secondary on the ball creator to LeBron, or primary when Reaves not in, but JLo always seems to hurt them with bad shot selection.

If that is Murray's rep, low true % etc, isn't he just cloning JLo for them?

Maybe, if they drop out of the playoff picture with that trash roster they have, they want to trade us AD for Randle and Mitch … nah I’m kidding, don’t come at me.

Murray seems like a much better fit here...but maybe they trade one of those players. I dunno. But him coming here is a potential great fit . You replace the scoring you lost between RJ/IQ while adding a better defender with length.

[stuporman]

Murray’s addition to Atlanta made them worse as he didn’t pair well with Tre… why would it be any different with the Knicks? Please elaborate… I’m honestly curious about how it could work better here.

To be fair it isn't really the back court that is the problem in ATL, it is the front court. I think the culture in NY, I can't believe we get to say this now, would help him.

Although, it has to be the right call to turn him around or the salary size and length of his contract makes it a lingering issue.

I dunno. They have some good defenders in the front court, I think it's absolutely Trae & Murray's inability to defend that is at the heart of Atlanta's defensive issues. Their offense is a bit too "my turn, your turn" but it's still more than productive enough for them to win games, but they just can't stop anyone cause teams can pick on that backcourt with ease.

It's not just about defending in the front court, it's the overall play of the front court that contributes to the team winning. The front court may be defending well but still the team is losing because of other factors related to the front court and it takes more than just one aspect of the game to create a cohesive team dynamic.

[KnixinSix]

To be fair it isn't really the back court that is the problem in ATL, it is the front court. I think the culture in NY, I can't believe we get to say this now, would help him.

Although, it has to be the right call to turn him around or the salary size and length of his contract makes it a lingering issue.

I dunno. They have some good defenders in the front court, I think it's absolutely Trae & Murray's inability to defend that is at the heart of Atlanta's defensive issues. Their offense is a bit too "my turn, your turn" but it's still more than productive enough for them to win games, but they just can't stop anyone cause teams can pick on that backcourt with ease.

It's not just about defending in the front court, it's the overall play of the front court that contributes to the team winning. The front court may be defending well but still the team is losing because of other factors related to the front court and it takes more than just one aspect of the game to create a cohesive team dynamic.

Well said. Blaming Atlantas problems simply thinking its because all the players suck (including Murray) is shortsighted.

Murray when you look analytically at what he does well vs what we need, is just an excellent potential fit for us

[KnixinSix]

I just don't see it. Murray has been a bad defender for 3 years now and he scores as efficiently as RJ.

Murray is surrounded by bad defenders in Atlanta. He shoots the ball decently from 3 and over 50% from 3-10 feet in. Thibs doesn't want his guys shooting mid range shots anyway. Think of him as more of an IQ replacement that you can start because of his size.

Jalen Johnson, Capela, & Okongwu are good defenders, and Hunter's not bad, even though he has gotten a lot lazier since getting paid. Atlanta's backcourt defense is a joke and Murray is a big part of why...and Atlanta's lack of guard defenders doesn't explain why Murray's defense started going downhill before he left SAS.


For the past 32 games Murray has shot the 3 decently, before that he shot it almost exactly as well as Randle has shot the 3 for us...career 34.1% for DJM vs 33.7% for Julius as a knick...and this is the first season where Murray's scoring more efficiently than RJ Barrett...

The idea of Dejounte Murray makes sense, but the reality is a lot less interesting for a team that spent so many years watching RJ get hot for a couple of months before regressing to his norms, and so should know better than to get suckered in by 30 game hot streak from one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA.

Hyperbole.

He is not one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA and is significantly a more efficient scorer than RJ. Also shooting a very strong 38% from 3 this year.

He also plays defense and has good length as a combo guard who can play the backup minutes at point to Brunson when he isn't playing the 2.

Give me that over a lesser abled defensive and more injury prone LaVine at 45+M a year over the next 4 years.

[cgf]

To be fair it isn't really the back court that is the problem in ATL, it is the front court. I think the culture in NY, I can't believe we get to say this now, would help him.

Although, it has to be the right call to turn him around or the salary size and length of his contract makes it a lingering issue.

I dunno. They have some good defenders in the front court, I think it's absolutely Trae & Murray's inability to defend that is at the heart of Atlanta's defensive issues. Their offense is a bit too "my turn, your turn" but it's still more than productive enough for them to win games, but they just can't stop anyone cause teams can pick on that backcourt with ease.

It's not just about defending in the front court, it's the overall play of the front court that contributes to the team winning. The front court may be defending well but still the team is losing because of other factors related to the front court and it takes more than just one aspect of the game to create a cohesive team dynamic.

That's certainly true, but from the games of theirs I've watched, the front court just can't make up for how easy it is for anyone & everyone to blow right by Murray, Young, or Bogey.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Jazz fans were actually cool with just Fournier + WSH FRP + SRP for Olnyk + our choice of Sexton or Clarkson. No need to include Grimes or that Dallas FRP.

Jazz fans are not Danny Ainge.

Yeah, they're probably looking for more than Ainge would IRL, but it gives us an idea of what the realistic ceiling on their price would be.

Ainge guards his premium assets tightly, which is where he gets his reputation from, but he just hemorrhages depth pieces on the cheap.

No. Ainge would want more. Don't be absurd now. There's no way Ainge makes that trade.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Murray is surrounded by bad defenders in Atlanta. He shoots the ball decently from 3 and over 50% from 3-10 feet in. Thibs doesn't want his guys shooting mid range shots anyway. Think of him as more of an IQ replacement that you can start because of his size.

Jalen Johnson, Capela, & Okongwu are good defenders, and Hunter's not bad, even though he has gotten a lot lazier since getting paid. Atlanta's backcourt defense is a joke and Murray is a big part of why...and Atlanta's lack of guard defenders doesn't explain why Murray's defense started going downhill before he left SAS.


For the past 32 games Murray has shot the 3 decently, before that he shot it almost exactly as well as Randle has shot the 3 for us...career 34.1% for DJM vs 33.7% for Julius as a knick...and this is the first season where Murray's scoring more efficiently than RJ Barrett...

The idea of Dejounte Murray makes sense, but the reality is a lot less interesting for a team that spent so many years watching RJ get hot for a couple of months before regressing to his norms, and so should know better than to get suckered in by 30 game hot streak from one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA.

Hyperbole.

He is not one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA and is significantly a more efficient scorer than RJ. Also shooting a very strong 38% from 3 this year.

He also plays defense and has good length as a combo guard who can play the backup minutes at point to Brunson when he isn't playing the 2.

Give me that over a lesser abled defensive and more injury prone LaVine at 45+M a year over the next 4 years.

Dude, run!! He's gonna sell LaVine like he's his fuggin agent!

[HarthorneWingo]

There are several things going on.

We don't know if the FO is in "hoard all assets besides getting OG" mode. If so, they'll make ZERO deals.

Do they want to do some small low cost deals to make any playoff round better, but they really don't care - getting a back up C for the rest of the year, some "meh" vet PG... etc

Do they want a "continuous soup" deal, where they convert Fourniers contract into a somewhat useful player for the now, but really with a trade in the offseason in mind - Brogdan and/or Murrary

Do they really value Murray?

Kind of have to trust in Aller/The collective.

Brogdan\Olynyk are "do they want to try and make some noise THIS playoffs but also help moving forward BUT, the FO might view it as not worth the assets.

Portland's not going anywhere anyhow. What do they need Brogdan for? They should take a draft pick and give him to us.

Same for Olynic in Utah. Is it Utah?

Yes, Utah. I think Olynyk is an Ainge favorite though

But Utah isn't going anywhere with him. They need more draft capital. Plus, they can have Sims.

There are even rumors of trading Lauri. I'm sure Olynic is expendable.

[RHODEY]

Watch on YouTube

[HarthorneWingo]

Murray is surrounded by bad defenders in Atlanta. He shoots the ball decently from 3 and over 50% from 3-10 feet in. Thibs doesn't want his guys shooting mid range shots anyway. Think of him as more of an IQ replacement that you can start because of his size.

Jalen Johnson, Capela, & Okongwu are good defenders, and Hunter's not bad, even though he has gotten a lot lazier since getting paid. Atlanta's backcourt defense is a joke and Murray is a big part of why...and Atlanta's lack of guard defenders doesn't explain why Murray's defense started going downhill before he left SAS.


For the past 32 games Murray has shot the 3 decently, before that he shot it almost exactly as well as Randle has shot the 3 for us...career 34.1% for DJM vs 33.7% for Julius as a knick...and this is the first season where Murray's scoring more efficiently than RJ Barrett...

The idea of Dejounte Murray makes sense, but the reality is a lot less interesting for a team that spent so many years watching RJ get hot for a couple of months before regressing to his norms, and so should know better than to get suckered in by 30 game hot streak from one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA.

Hyperbole.

He is not one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA and is significantly a more efficient scorer than RJ. Also shooting a very strong 38% from 3 this year.

He also plays defense and has good length as a combo guard who can play the backup minutes at point to Brunson when he isn't playing the 2.

Give me that over a lesser abled defensive and more injury prone LaVine at 45+M a year over the next 4 years.

Murray needs the ball in his hands to be effective. There's not enough usage minutes in the starting lineup for him. It would be like replacing RJ with RJ, offensively, which is counter to what the team is trying to do.

[Meat]

Murray is surrounded by bad defenders in Atlanta. He shoots the ball decently from 3 and over 50% from 3-10 feet in. Thibs doesn't want his guys shooting mid range shots anyway. Think of him as more of an IQ replacement that you can start because of his size.

Jalen Johnson, Capela, & Okongwu are good defenders, and Hunter's not bad, even though he has gotten a lot lazier since getting paid. Atlanta's backcourt defense is a joke and Murray is a big part of why...and Atlanta's lack of guard defenders doesn't explain why Murray's defense started going downhill before he left SAS.


For the past 32 games Murray has shot the 3 decently, before that he shot it almost exactly as well as Randle has shot the 3 for us...career 34.1% for DJM vs 33.7% for Julius as a knick...and this is the first season where Murray's scoring more efficiently than RJ Barrett...

The idea of Dejounte Murray makes sense, but the reality is a lot less interesting for a team that spent so many years watching RJ get hot for a couple of months before regressing to his norms, and so should know better than to get suckered in by 30 game hot streak from one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA.

Hyperbole.

He is not one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA and is significantly a more efficient scorer than RJ. Also shooting a very strong 38% from 3 this year.

He also plays defense and has good length as a combo guard who can play the backup minutes at point to Brunson when he isn't playing the 2.

Give me that over a lesser abled defensive and more injury prone LaVine at 45+M a year over the next 4 years.

he can play defense, he doesnt he hasnt since he arrived in atl

[cgf]

I dunno. They have some good defenders in the front court, I think it's absolutely Trae & Murray's inability to defend that is at the heart of Atlanta's defensive issues. Their offense is a bit too "my turn, your turn" but it's still more than productive enough for them to win games, but they just can't stop anyone cause teams can pick on that backcourt with ease.

It's not just about defending in the front court, it's the overall play of the front court that contributes to the team winning. The front court may be defending well but still the team is losing because of other factors related to the front court and it takes more than just one aspect of the game to create a cohesive team dynamic.

Well said. Blaming Atlantas problems simply thinking its because all the players suck (including Murray) is shortsighted.

Murray when you look analytically at what he does well vs what we need, is just an excellent potential fit for us

Which analytics are you referring to? I'm genuinely asking because the guy you keep describing sounds really exciting, I'm just confused why you think Murray has ever actually fit that description in the NBA.

He's been shooting well for the past two months, but even in the middle of a career year from behind the arc he's still an inefficient scorer and his metrics say that his team is better when he's not on the court...-3.1pts per 100pos this season and -5.0 last season (which was even worse than the toxic Lavine)...which fits the eye test with him.


I'm not saying it's impossible that the 27yo Dejounte Murray has, in his 8th season, gone from a 34% 3pt shooter to a 38% one. Or that he won't suddenly start playing defense like he did on his rookie contract because having Thibs yell at him makes him happy. For all we know he's been tanking his whole career just to become a knick and is secretly a better shooter than Steph.

I'm just saying that's a really big gamble to take considering it would prevent us from being able to trade for a superstar for at least 2 years.