Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

[evevale]

i'm just going to wait until cam gets healthy and track my feeds to see if any other moves are made. there are just too many unknowns about the situation in its entirety for me to get too invested in favor of one way or another

but once again, what do i know - i'm just a faceless puppet dancing to the tune of a lunatic franchise

can someone help me with my avatar please

as expected - zero help received but you remain my favorite person regardless

[thebuzzardman]

Holes in theory: Knicks could have traded 2022 pick for some 2023 pick right now. At the deadline. In the offseason. During the draft.

This is my main problem with this trade. It's not even about Reddish. We don't have minutes to even play this guy unless we just never play Obi and Grimes. Even worse if Rose comes back.

iq
fournier
rj
burks
randle
mitch
rose
noel
obi
grimes

that's 10 ... Thibs plays like 7. It also assumes Kemba is done.

We also just could have used this pick to consolidate and move up. The Dallas 2023 pick (~20s next year assuming Luka is alive), our pick (13) and the Charlotte pick (21) could become like 8 this year.

We will get pressure to extend Cam Reddish based off like probably ~20 games vs. fake covid opponents. Then we get a year with him and have to deal with him wanting some insane extension along with RJ.

A 1st rounder this year, let's say 8 ... is cost controlled for 3+ years.

Short answer:
Bench either Grimes or IQ.
IQ stays in rotation if Thibs likes the slight extra experience, slight PG ability, scoring punch or synergy with Rose
Grimes stays in the rotation if Thibs likes the shooting, defense and height RELATIVE TO IQ

Two guys get shown the bench and Cam gets his 20 mpg - yeah, which isn't enough, but it's Thibs and the Knicks.
Kemba, who has been there already, is hurt and maybe will be traded
Grimes or IQ

Does THEBUZZARDMAN want to see Burks or Fournier gone? Oh my yes.
Will that happen? Nope.

[DowNY]

We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.

I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds, and one is routed to OKC where they absorb some guy who makes 9 million.

I'm not sold on the idea. Or, maybe the Knicks get a "worse" value 2nd rounder and route one the better one to OKC.

The Front Office must be crazy to use picks to dump Kemba. Assuming we are not using cap space this offseason, there is no need to dump Kemba. If we can not get an expiring contract, keep him to use as a filler in a future trade.

This.
We don’t have cap space. Why are we trying to waive Kemba? He’s been on the bench coaching up the young kids, especially RJ the last few weeks.
Find a trade & use him as cap filler and let the next team decide to keep him for an additional year or waive him. Not that difficult.

[thebuzzardman]

We have enough extra seconds to dump Kemba's deal this year but I'd almost rather just get to the new league year and waive him with no stretch. We've actually hit on some 2nd rounders, though I guess as long as the balding flesh husk orc lord is running the team they'll likely never play.

I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds, and one is routed to OKC where they absorb some guy who makes 9 million.

I'm not sold on the idea. Or, maybe the Knicks get a "worse" value 2nd rounder and route one the better one to OKC.

The Front Office must be crazy to use picks to dump Kemba. Assuming we are not using cap space this offseason, there is no need to dump Kemba. If we can not get an expiring contract, keep him to use as a filler in a future trade.

I think they are stuck with Kemba. Nedleeds is right, it was a dumb move. Well, yes and no. Once they did the stupid thing of not properly addressing PG during the meat of free agency, it was "ok" to spend 9 million for a couple of years of "maybe it works"
Other than the idiocy of looking to rely on two PG's over 30 with significant injury concerns, lolz.

Anyway, I should have stated best case scenario is some playoff team wants Kemba and somehow the Knicks get a crap 2nd rounder back. Since they are capped out, it has to be salary. The Nunn idea is good.

[nedleeds]

I was thinking Kemba is traded FOR two 2nds

He has another year. This clown front office was the only crew dumb enough to offer a man with less cartilage than a tsetse fly a second year. Otherwise yeah maybe a token 2nd rounder to the Lakers or some team thinking he can play.

Well, yeah, it would be a playoff team, so the 2nd rounders would be the pretty sh*tty kind, like in the 50s.
And it might be just one, and then routed to OKC

A playoff team or fake contender could have an injury. Thing is it's not like Kemba has ever been some playoff genie. Like if Rose wasn't injured he might actually get us a 1st as a 6th man who can play crunch time minutes and not have his sack turn into a walnut. Kemba is negative value flotsam unfortunately, maybe we could take back a bigger dead money this year deal and save somebody some tax and get a 2nd rounder. I can't find any team where that's true unless I'm missing an injury. But basically they'd hope for 10 minutes of 40 point 40% 3 shooting Kemba as their 2nd point guard every 3rd game.

[dakomish23]

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

To add to these numbers, this year he’s shooting
41.9% on 3.1 catch and shoot 3’s
58.3% on left corner 3’s (14 of 24) all makes assisted
34.8% on right corner 3’s (8 of 23) all makes assisted
34.0% on above the break 3’s (36 of 106). Of that 36, 72% were assisted.

I had posted earlier about us running plays for him to take out the useless off the dribble crap that the NBA has devolved into. There’s a very small group of NBA players good enough to do this consistently & Cam isn’t on that list.

My logic is the same for Cam as it was for THJ when I thought he would have a good year in 19-20. I can see Cam really being productive and fruitful if we create for him instead of him trying to do it himself. Right now 0 dribble 3’s only account for 31.2% of his FGA. That needs to be closer to 50 to maximize his impact. Even his 0 dribble 2PA (which is only 7.9% of his 2PA) have him shooting at 48.1%.

The answer is there. The kid has the ability to be a finisher on the perimeter. But if they’re going to pretend he’s something he’s not, then expect the same uneven feast or famine output.

Whole CBS article below

Spoiler:

Knicks trade grade: B+
There's an argument this should be an A-plus. If you believe there's a decent chance that Reddish turns into a star, then trading a "first-round pick" that could very well turn into two second-round picks for him is robbery. Knox wasn't a part of New York's plans, and the front office managed to keep all of the young players who are. Solomon Hill is out for the season and will occupy a roster spot, but all that means is the Knicks have to terminate Ryan Arcidiacano's 10-day contract early.

Reddish wanted to land on a team that could give him a bigger role, per ESPN, and in New York he should have an opportunity to earn more than the 23.4 minutes he was averaging in Atlanta. There is competition, however, and this trade raises several questions: Will Tom Thibodeau turn Evan Fournier into a sixth man? Will Fournier even be on the roster past the deadline? How much usage can Reddish even handle?

If you're a Reddish optimist, you can point to his scoring outbursts. It wasn't the conference finals, but Reddish went 8-for-13 from deep and scored 33 points against the Chicago Bulls a couple of days after Christmas. Five days before that, he dropped 34 in 42 minutes against the Orlando Magic. Reddish hasn't done this sort of thing consistently, but it would be crazy to expect him to, given all the talent around him and the fact that Trae Young ran a zillion pick-and-rolls every game.

This season, 63 percent of Reddish's baskets have been assisted, per Cleaning The Glass. That is the same percentage as Taj Gibson, and it is the lowest percentage of Reddish's three-year career. If you're a Reddish skeptic, you can argue that there are good reasons for this: He's shooting 28.3 percent on pull-up 3s and 30.2 percent on pull-up 2s, per NBA.com, and he's shooting 30 percent from midrange and 57 percent at the rim, per CTG.

These numbers aren't encouraging for Reddish's prospects as a creator, but they aren't damning, either. He's only a year younger than Quentin Grimes and Miles McBride, his new rookie teammates, and he deserves time to figure out who he is as an NBA player. If his 22.3 percent usage rate stays the same or increases only slightly, he can still be a wildly valuable wing, provided that he brings consistent intensity on defense and especially if he continues to make 41.9 percent of his catch-and-shoot 3s. To be determined on both of those, though.

The tricky part is that, before Reddish has figured out who he is as an NBA player, a team has to make a decision about paying him something like $15-20 million per season for four years. The Hawks have already punted on that.

New York is betting that it can retain Reddish at a price that makes sense. Him developing into a perennial All-Star would be the best possible outcome, but that is hardly required for this to pay off. For the last year or so, Atlanta has been seen as a potential destination for disgruntled superstars, given its collection of young talent. The Knicks are in that game, too, and Reddish gives them someone else they can offer (or build with, if they must trade Barrett).

In a more immediate sense, New York just acquired a rotation player for a guy who was only seeing the floor in garbage time. The Knicks have more firepower, more athleticism and more versatility than they did before this trade, and Thibodeau will demand the best out of him on defense. At 21-21, fighting for a spot in the play-in, this could turn out to be the boost they needed.

He has been horrible in the mid range and isos, but he has been good in other areas. There is a good player there if he can find his niche. A lot of it is just figuring out his place in the league. Hopefully the change of scenery can help.

Yep. Cut the garbage out and increase what he’s already shown he can excel at, I see a high teens guy.

The worst case scenario I can think of for Thibs is Korver

[stuporman]

i'm just going to wait until cam gets healthy and track my feeds to see if any other moves are made. there are just too many unknowns about the situation in its entirety for me to get too invested in favor of one way or another

but once again, what do i know - i'm just a faceless puppet dancing to the tune of a lunatic franchise

can someone help me with my avatar please

In my experience using the copy url feature or copying it from the selections offered in the different boxes they have doesn't work in getting a good url from imgur for this forum. When I have find an image I want on imgur or have uploaded one to imgur I right click it and select open in new window just to make sure I have the correct url then copy that url from the address bar of that tab in my browser to put.

You may have already tried that and if you did, well, that's all I have but I just wanted to give my suggestion in case you haven't.

[blueNorange]

with lavine possibly injured, the bulls could use alec burks

[stuporman]

with lavine possibly injured, the bulls could use alec burks

Caruso isn't up to anywhere near Lavine's level but they will probably run with him as a starter and give more mins to Ayo off the bench. I'm not sure they want to bring in a guy who's as inconsistent as Burks to start if it costs them assets.

Although if the Knicks can flip Burks for Ayo, a second rounder and some filler I'd be stoked. I projected Ayo as a Burks type of combo guard but can defend at a higher level. Won't happen though, why would the Bulls do it?

[F N 11]

Cam and RJ doesn’t get along probably stemmed from this

Even Zion said RJ get up like 10 inches off the ground

RJ: “Cam be making me so mad. Cam be like I played so bad. How much you had? Like 30 “

Watch on YouTube

[nedleeds]

with lavine possibly injured, the bulls could use alec burks

Caruso isn't up to anywhere near Lavine's level but they will probably run with him as a starter and give more mins to Ayo off the bench. I'm not sure they want to bring in a guy who's as inconsistent as Burks to start if it costs them assets.

Although if the Knicks can flip Burks for Ayo, a second rounder and some filler I'd be stoked. I projected Ayo as a Burks type of combo guard but can defend at a higher level. Won't happen though, why would the Bulls do it?

Burks, Obi for Patrick Williams.

[nedleeds]

It's still all arguing around the periphery and we don't know the full thought process (ok, if any, lolz) that went into this.

I cover the pick probably conveying sooner than later might have motivated them. In part. They might also like trying out Cam in a kind of win/win that may pay big. Either way, the value of all these possibilities - in and of themselves - is about the same - 2022 pick vs some 2024 pick vs Cam etc.

Yes, I get it removes an asset that could be put into some theoretical trade. I'd assume all this was brought up and the consensus tilted towards this deal, which retained enough flexibility for the bigger picture, while yes, sacrificing some potential theoretical options.
I'm not defending the trade, just what I think prompted it.

Also, other theory:

They were thinking about the trade for a bit, as Cam was known to be on the block, and Dolan pressed them to get the trade done so it removed the Randle vs Fans drama from the press.

Sure as sh*t quieted all that down. To include on here.

Oh. And it's BS Thibs plays 7. Come on.

His rotations have been something like - and PG is hard, because Kemba and Rose have (SHOCKINGLY!) missed so much time:

Kemba/Burks/Rose (pick 2)
Fourskinier/IQ
RJ/Burks (Grimes here when Burks is PG)
Randle/Super small serving of Obi
Mitch/Taj or Sims or Noel

It's 10. Or 9, with a dash of Obi.

Oh we absolutely know the thinking—Post-Lebron snub, post-Durant snub Knicks:

A) Stockpile young players—one of them could pan out, but mostly they’re trade fodder and cheap contracts for the perpetual max cat Starphuck quest;

B) Stockpile veteran journeyman—8 seed or bust, we must play older guys to ensure we are competitive not for a championship but to sell tickets to one playoff series while staying out of LOLKnick tabloid hell.

C) Big risky contracts to up-and-coming veterans as marquee headliners — THJ, Randle (could Cam be next?).

A + B + C = No superstars will be drafted or developed here.

It’s putting all your eggs in a trade basket, then hoping a FA will follow.

Reddish won’t develop here, neither will Mitch, Grimes, McBride, IQ, or Obi. They all have to avoid getting traded and avoid losing spots to veterans. Odds are against all of them.

I disagree. If we are not tanking, these are the right moves.

Sure but chasing the play-in and a massive sodomization from the Bucks/Nets in the 1st round is the wrong move. We keep these 2-3 year players and never develop or play the majority of them. Knowing many will be and never get a second contract. But we don't even try. Obi gets like 9 minutes. Why even use a roster spot on 1st rounders? Grimes will be back to DNP Coach is an Orc once Rose returns.

[BugginOut]

Read on Twitter

Quotes like this makes me believe Mitchell could be on his way out. This team is slowly falling apart. Mitchell liked this tweet too

The first guy that would be traded is Gobert, not Mitchell. That would be a last resort.

And let's understand one thing - the Jazz with a much better roster than the Knicks have not advanced far in the playoffs. Some of that has to fall on Mitchell as a leader and a player.

The thing about the Jazz is that they are a poor defensive team that can masquerade as a good one because Gobert is generational defensively. Their perimeter defense is some of the worst in the league and it gets exposed in the playoffs.

Some of that falls on Mitchell, because his defense is suspect, but the Knicks have much better defenders at every other position. Not saying we will be title contenders by just adding Mitchell, but our defensive weaknesses can not be exploited as easily as other teams do Gobert and the Jazz.

[Huey Freeman]

Although if the Knicks can flip Burks for Ayo, a second rounder and some filler I'd be stoked. I projected Ayo as a Burks type of combo guard but can defend at a higher level. Won't happen though, why would the Bulls do it?

Burks ($9MM) makes 10X as much money as Ayo ($950K), meaning…CHI has to send us extra players we can’t keep. Actually, it’s NYK that has to package Burks + another player for 1 better player to ease our roster glut.

[Nbabrothers]

I envision starting five when all is said and done whether it’s this year or within the next three is as follows:
Mitch/Noel/Sims
Obi/?
Cam Grimes
RJ/Grimes
Quickley/McBride

This is our future. Rose/Kemba/Julius/Fournier will not be here in the long run.
Our future is bright.

[stuporman]

Although if the Knicks can flip Burks for Ayo, a second rounder and some filler I'd be stoked. I projected Ayo as a Burks type of combo guard but can defend at a higher level. Won't happen though, why would the Bulls do it?

Burks ($9MM) makes 10X as much money as Ayo ($950K), meaning…CHI has to send us extra players we can’t keep. Actually, it’s NYK that has to package Burks + another player for 1 better player to ease our roster glut.

I already addressed it.... the filler can be waived, there's probably some player in their final season they want to get off their books so it would benefit them that way too hence the 2nd rounder.

Ayo is a rookie so he wouldn't require as many mins to keep him happy as Burks would so the 'glut' wouldn't be as 'glutty' as with Burks.

[Gravy]

There are still Kenny truthers on here? Yikes

There's always the fantasy of a new coach taking all the vets out of the rotation, starting all the rookies and under 22 year olds and either going all the way to a championship or tanking for 5 straight #1 picks in a row

[WajaBawl]

i'm just going to wait until cam gets healthy and track my feeds to see if any other moves are made. there are just too many unknowns about the situation in its entirety for me to get too invested in favor of one way or another

but once again, what do i know - i'm just a faceless puppet dancing to the tune of a lunatic franchise

can someone help me with my avatar please

In my experience using the copy url feature or copying it from the selections offered in the different boxes they have doesn't work in getting a good url from imgur for this forum. When I have find an image I want on imgur or have uploaded one to imgur I right click it and select open in new window just to make sure I have the correct url then copy that url from the address bar of that tab in my browser to put.

You may have already tried that and if you did, well, that's all I have but I just wanted to give my suggestion in case you haven't.

I just figured out how to do this avatar stuff. Good looks.

[HighRyzer83]

I still don't understand why they would just give us Cam for Knox and a shyt pick. If they were shopping Cam then they could have gotten more from any other team. It just seems like a fleecing. I wonder how hawks feel about this trade.

[F N 11]

RJ gave team USA 38 being guarded by Cam

At the end when Cam says he’s being attacked. That’s where Berman got his source

Watch on YouTube