Trades and Transactions thread cont - we still need a center

[dukeknicksirish]

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[mpharris36]

Duece will see a minute increase during the playoffs when we matchup with Maxey or Hali or Brown. Thibbs gonna keep his pit-bull ready

yup certainly see Thibs limiting Brunson/Mikal/DD playoff minutes to play Duece more.

[nykballa2k4]

you think trading Randle for Ayton is a good move?

1:1 Randle is a better player obviously
However in terms of needs, fit, age etc Ayton is capable of everything Thibs needs and then some.
I would hope that it would be something like Randle to X, prospects and contracts to Portland, picks and Ayton to NY.
I am open to other options, but Ayton is just a big name.

no

If Randle could play center (block shots) we would be set with:
Randle/Mitch/Sims/Hukporti
OG/Precious
Bridges/Hart/PacMan
DDV/McBride/Rokas
Brunson/Payne/Kolek

In a perfect world, we have a healthy KP there. I don't know who you can flip 1:1 with Randle to make the rest of the rotation fit, but that's the trick here.

[dukeknicksirish]

Duece will see a minute increase during the playoffs when we matchup with Maxey or Hali or Brown. Thibbs gonna keep his pit-bull ready

yup certainly see Thibs limiting Brunson/Mikal/DD playoff minutes to play Duece more.

If we go small ball, that is where Duece could see his minutes or even giving JB actual rest and letting Duece run with Randle/OG “2nd” unit. The way we will be able to stagger minutes while having at least 2 of Brunson/Ju/Mikal/OG will be such a blessing

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I gotta know, why do you guys spell it as "Duece"


My auto correct won't even let me spell it that way

[Fat]

Are we there yet?

[sol537]

1) Thibs extends for 3 years
2) Randle extends for 4 years 8/3
3) Mikal extends 3 years Oct '24
4) We trade Deuce for Kessler or Richards
5) We sign Precious on a 2-year deal $8.5m per, 2nd year team option

.

[DOT]

I gotta know, why do you guys spell it as "Duece"


My auto correct won't even let me spell it that way

There's one guy who keeps spelling Randle as "Randall" and it genuinely bugs me

I misspell stuff sometimes sure, but it's so easy to check stuff if I'm not sure that I don't get it. Especially for someone whose name you have to have seen hundreds of times, you never thought to check?

[thebuzzardman]

we just talking in circles at this point lol

If at "this point", you mean the last 20 years, then yes

[thebuzzardman]

Fun stuff from The Athletic

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5644837/2024/07/19/nba-offseason-sixers-knicks-lebron-lakers/

Knicks’ Euro step around first apron
The first cap-nerd move of the summer might have been the best: the Knicks’ trade for Mikal Bridges that they managed to pull off while not capping themselves at the first apron.





For those who aren’t familiar with all the assorted apron rules (which is basically all of us), a team becomes capped at the first apron if it brings back more salary than it sends out in a trade. The initial reporting of the Bridges deal was that Bojan Bogdanović would be the outbound salary; that was a legal trade, but because Bogdanović made $4 million less, it would have hard-capped New York at the first apron. That, in turn, would have been a serious problem because it would have prevented the Knicks from signing any free agents and might have roofed them on what they could offer OG Anunoby too.

The Knicks’ cap-savvy front office (it’s still weird to type this) was on top of the situation right away, but it was tricky because they essentially needed to add players to the trade after the initial outline of terms were agreed upon.

It seems the key element was declining DaQuan Jeffries’ $2.46 million team option, believe it or not, even though he ended up not being in the trade. The Knicks couldn’t combine Jeffries, Mamadi Diakite and Bogdanović for the salary match because two of the players had minimum deals … but if the Knicks could decline Jeffries’ option and then sign-and-trade him for slightly more than the minimum, that would work. As long as they had a Jeffries fallback, they’d have enough salary ballast in the trade to offset Bridges and avoid the hard cap. (The risk of another team jumping in to pay Jeffries was minimal; nobody was giving him $2 million guaranteed.)

The Knicks and Brooklyn Nets eventually agreed to similar terms with a better player in Shake Milton, but they couldn’t have guaranteed that endgame when they first shook hands in June. At that point, New York also almost certainly had other scenarios on the table that could have avoided the need for it anyway. (Besides, even if the Knicks could have cheated the starter gun on free agency, it hardly would have been worth it over a player like Milton. And New York still had further options in deep reserve, including shenanigans with second-round draft picks who can be traded 30 days after signing.)

As a result, the Knicks exactly matched Bridges’ incoming salary with their outbound Milton and Bogdanović salaries and a partial guarantee on Diakite’s previously non-guaranteed deal, capping themselves at the second apron rather than the first. That still has limits — functionally, New York can’t do a trade that doesn’t send out more money than it returns until next July — but the Knicks have a lot more flexibility now than they would have if capped at the first apron.

The other piece true cap nerds will appreciate is New York receiving the rights to Juan Pablo Vaulet in the trade, a 2015 draftee from Argentina who has absolutely no chance of ever playing in the NBA. This continues New York’s obsession with rights to overseas players, no matter how marginally alive they might be. The Knicks now have rights to 13 different individuals, six of whom are older than 35 and either retired or trending that way, and one of whom coached the Spurs’ summer-league team.

[dukeknicksirish]

I gotta know, why do you guys spell it as "Duece"


My auto correct won't even let me spell it that way

There's one guy who keeps spelling Randle as "Randall" and it genuinely bugs me

I misspell stuff sometimes sure, but it's so easy to check stuff if I'm not sure that I don't get it. Especially for someone whose name you have to have seen hundreds of times, you never thought to check?

My buddy’s nickname is “Duece” so in my phone, it’s that way from so many conversations

[dukeknicksirish]

I gotta know, why do you guys spell it as "Duece"


My auto correct won't even let me spell it that way

There's one guy who keeps spelling Randle as "Randall" and it genuinely bugs me

I misspell stuff sometimes sure, but it's so easy to check stuff if I'm not sure that I don't get it. Especially for someone whose name you have to have seen hundreds of times, you never thought to check?

My buddy’s nickname is “Duece” so in my phone, it’s that way from so many conversations

[KnixinSix]

Fun stuff from The Athletic

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5644837/2024/07/19/nba-offseason-sixers-knicks-lebron-lakers/

Knicks’ Euro step around first apron
The first cap-nerd move of the summer might have been the best: the Knicks’ trade for Mikal Bridges that they managed to pull off while not capping themselves at the first apron.





For those who aren’t familiar with all the assorted apron rules (which is basically all of us), a team becomes capped at the first apron if it brings back more salary than it sends out in a trade. The initial reporting of the Bridges deal was that Bojan Bogdanović would be the outbound salary; that was a legal trade, but because Bogdanović made $4 million less, it would have hard-capped New York at the first apron. That, in turn, would have been a serious problem because it would have prevented the Knicks from signing any free agents and might have roofed them on what they could offer OG Anunoby too.

The Knicks’ cap-savvy front office (it’s still weird to type this) was on top of the situation right away, but it was tricky because they essentially needed to add players to the trade after the initial outline of terms were agreed upon.

It seems the key element was declining DaQuan Jeffries’ $2.46 million team option, believe it or not, even though he ended up not being in the trade. The Knicks couldn’t combine Jeffries, Mamadi Diakite and Bogdanović for the salary match because two of the players had minimum deals … but if the Knicks could decline Jeffries’ option and then sign-and-trade him for slightly more than the minimum, that would work. As long as they had a Jeffries fallback, they’d have enough salary ballast in the trade to offset Bridges and avoid the hard cap. (The risk of another team jumping in to pay Jeffries was minimal; nobody was giving him $2 million guaranteed.)

The Knicks and Brooklyn Nets eventually agreed to similar terms with a better player in Shake Milton, but they couldn’t have guaranteed that endgame when they first shook hands in June. At that point, New York also almost certainly had other scenarios on the table that could have avoided the need for it anyway. (Besides, even if the Knicks could have cheated the starter gun on free agency, it hardly would have been worth it over a player like Milton. And New York still had further options in deep reserve, including shenanigans with second-round draft picks who can be traded 30 days after signing.)

As a result, the Knicks exactly matched Bridges’ incoming salary with their outbound Milton and Bogdanović salaries and a partial guarantee on Diakite’s previously non-guaranteed deal, capping themselves at the second apron rather than the first. That still has limits — functionally, New York can’t do a trade that doesn’t send out more money than it returns until next July — but the Knicks have a lot more flexibility now than they would have if capped at the first apron.

The other piece true cap nerds will appreciate is New York receiving the rights to Juan Pablo Vaulet in the trade, a 2015 draftee from Argentina who has absolutely no chance of ever playing in the NBA. This continues New York’s obsession with rights to overseas players, no matter how marginally alive they might be. The Knicks now have rights to 13 different individuals, six of whom are older than 35 and either retired or trending that way, and one of whom coached the Spurs’ summer-league team.

Wow the new cap is a frigging minefield

[moocow007]

Fun stuff from The Athletic

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5644837/2024/07/19/nba-offseason-sixers-knicks-lebron-lakers/

Knicks’ Euro step around first apron
The first cap-nerd move of the summer might have been the best: the Knicks’ trade for Mikal Bridges that they managed to pull off while not capping themselves at the first apron.





For those who aren’t familiar with all the assorted apron rules (which is basically all of us), a team becomes capped at the first apron if it brings back more salary than it sends out in a trade. The initial reporting of the Bridges deal was that Bojan Bogdanović would be the outbound salary; that was a legal trade, but because Bogdanović made $4 million less, it would have hard-capped New York at the first apron. That, in turn, would have been a serious problem because it would have prevented the Knicks from signing any free agents and might have roofed them on what they could offer OG Anunoby too.

The Knicks’ cap-savvy front office (it’s still weird to type this) was on top of the situation right away, but it was tricky because they essentially needed to add players to the trade after the initial outline of terms were agreed upon.

It seems the key element was declining DaQuan Jeffries’ $2.46 million team option, believe it or not, even though he ended up not being in the trade. The Knicks couldn’t combine Jeffries, Mamadi Diakite and Bogdanović for the salary match because two of the players had minimum deals … but if the Knicks could decline Jeffries’ option and then sign-and-trade him for slightly more than the minimum, that would work. As long as they had a Jeffries fallback, they’d have enough salary ballast in the trade to offset Bridges and avoid the hard cap. (The risk of another team jumping in to pay Jeffries was minimal; nobody was giving him $2 million guaranteed.)

The Knicks and Brooklyn Nets eventually agreed to similar terms with a better player in Shake Milton, but they couldn’t have guaranteed that endgame when they first shook hands in June. At that point, New York also almost certainly had other scenarios on the table that could have avoided the need for it anyway. (Besides, even if the Knicks could have cheated the starter gun on free agency, it hardly would have been worth it over a player like Milton. And New York still had further options in deep reserve, including shenanigans with second-round draft picks who can be traded 30 days after signing.)

As a result, the Knicks exactly matched Bridges’ incoming salary with their outbound Milton and Bogdanović salaries and a partial guarantee on Diakite’s previously non-guaranteed deal, capping themselves at the second apron rather than the first. That still has limits — functionally, New York can’t do a trade that doesn’t send out more money than it returns until next July — but the Knicks have a lot more flexibility now than they would have if capped at the first apron.

The other piece true cap nerds will appreciate is New York receiving the rights to Juan Pablo Vaulet in the trade, a 2015 draftee from Argentina who has absolutely no chance of ever playing in the NBA. This continues New York’s obsession with rights to overseas players, no matter how marginally alive they might be. The Knicks now have rights to 13 different individuals, six of whom are older than 35 and either retired or trending that way, and one of whom coached the Spurs’ summer-league team.

Fun fact. Brock Aller is actually the great grand nephew of Albert Einstein on his mother's side twice removed.

[SelbyCobra]

I don't think we trade Randle this year

The whole point is that this is the year where everybody (except OG lol) is on a value deal, or underpaid (except Hart but he's not egregiously so)

You take advantage of that to keep the talent together, and Randle's still really good. Whoever we could get in a trade for him that is better makes way too much, and if we trade him for lesser talent, that really doesn't help us either because we don't need to budget this year

After this year though is a different story. But that's dependent on a lot of variables which we won't know until the season's over so no point in litigating that now. If we make a trade, it will be Deuce for a big, like a margins move, nothing involving Randle until next offseason cause no trade with him makes sense for us at this point.

While I agree mostly I think that would also be a really big risk for the Knicks. You can just look at this like a one year window...we didn't make the Mikal trade to have 1 year to build this.

The concern is that if you go into the year with no extension done with Randle...you certainly open yourself up to the possibility of losing him for nothing...which the Knicks absolutely can't do since you can't replace him since we are a team operating over the cap.

So they need to have some contingency plan built in if no extension with Randle happens and then he likely opts out of his contract. At that point it could be a free for all. All it would take is one team giving him the max the Knicks don't want to do (say like the rockets) and then what do we do...he is an unrestricted FA at that point and would control where he wants to go.

We can't be put in a situation like Clippers were with PG13 where they didn't want to give him a max deal and tried to give him less and then he got fed up and left for another team and the Clippers were left with nothing. That can't happen.

I get your point...I'm sure ideally the knicks want to run this unit fully healthy...but they can't look at this year as a silo...Aller and company are way too smart to leave that big variable sitting over our heads all year.

Yeah, I can see not trading Randle this year to "make one run with everyone" as a logical pathway, but I feel like the other really logical - and more importantly long-view - option out there is moving Randle for younger, lesser pieces that have a chance to grow within the championship window it appears they've opened up this offseason. As you said, their whole approach has been longterm, sustained success.

If they really do not have information that Julius will sign a contract on their terms, the option of running it back with everyone at the risk of losing a valuable, but questionable, asset that could be mitigated by a preseason trade feels much more Cashman's Yankees than it does Leon's Knicks. This FO has been meticulous with their approach and roster building, so I can't see them opening themselves up to an enormous amount of asset risk for the sake of one season. But what do I know - I'm greatly enjoying sitting back and letting Leon/Wes/Brock cook.

[sol537]

I don't think we trade Randle this year

The whole point is that this is the year where everybody (except OG lol) is on a value deal, or underpaid (except Hart but he's not egregiously so)

You take advantage of that to keep the talent together, and Randle's still really good. Whoever we could get in a trade for him that is better makes way too much, and if we trade him for lesser talent, that really doesn't help us either because we don't need to budget this year

After this year though is a different story. But that's dependent on a lot of variables which we won't know until the season's over so no point in litigating that now. If we make a trade, it will be Deuce for a big, like a margins move, nothing involving Randle until next offseason cause no trade with him makes sense for us at this point.

While I agree mostly I think that would also be a really big risk for the Knicks. You can just look at this like a one year window...we didn't make the Mikal trade to have 1 year to build this.

The concern is that if you go into the year with no extension done with Randle...you certainly open yourself up to the possibility of losing him for nothing...which the Knicks absolutely can't do since you can't replace him since we are a team operating over the cap.

So they need to have some contingency plan built in if no extension with Randle happens and then he likely opts out of his contract. At that point it could be a free for all. All it would take is one team giving him the max the Knicks don't want to do (say like the rockets) and then what do we do...he is an unrestricted FA at that point and would control where he wants to go.

We can't be put in a situation like Clippers were with PG13 where they didn't want to give him a max deal and tried to give him less and then he got fed up and left for another team and the Clippers were left with nothing. That can't happen.

I get your point...I'm sure ideally the knicks want to run this unit fully healthy...but they can't look at this year as a silo...Aller and company are way too smart to leave that big variable sitting over our heads all year.

Yeah, I can see not trading Randle this year to "make one run with everyone" as a logical pathway, but I feel like the other really logical - and more importantly long-view - option out there is moving Randle for younger, lesser pieces that have a chance to grow within the championship window it appears they've opened up this offseason. As you said, their whole approach has been longterm, sustained success.

If they really do not have information that Julius will sign a contract on their terms, the option of running it back with everyone at the risk of losing a valuable, but questionable, asset that could be mitigated by a preseason trade feels much more Cashman's Yankees than it does Leon's Knicks. This FO has been meticulous with their approach and roster building, so I can't see them opening themselves up to an enormous amount of asset risk for the sake of one season. But what do I know - I'm greatly enjoying sitting back and letting Leon/Wes/Brock cook.

Houston could be that partner...

Jabari Smith, Eason, Adams for Randle, rights to Rokas, and the WAS 1st...

[Knicksfan1992]

Shocked nobody has really mentioned Poeltl as an option. He's in that salary range where a S&T with Precious and McBride likely works. Toronto seems to really want to shake up their roster and they are pretty light on depth in the backcourt. Poeltl fills a lot of what Thibs likes in Centers and has some passing chops on offense. He's similar to Mitch in that he doesn't have much of a scoring repertoire but he's a quality depth piece. Deuce would make sense for Toronto.

[SelbyCobra]

While I agree mostly I think that would also be a really big risk for the Knicks. You can just look at this like a one year window...we didn't make the Mikal trade to have 1 year to build this.

The concern is that if you go into the year with no extension done with Randle...you certainly open yourself up to the possibility of losing him for nothing...which the Knicks absolutely can't do since you can't replace him since we are a team operating over the cap.

So they need to have some contingency plan built in if no extension with Randle happens and then he likely opts out of his contract. At that point it could be a free for all. All it would take is one team giving him the max the Knicks don't want to do (say like the rockets) and then what do we do...he is an unrestricted FA at that point and would control where he wants to go.

We can't be put in a situation like Clippers were with PG13 where they didn't want to give him a max deal and tried to give him less and then he got fed up and left for another team and the Clippers were left with nothing. That can't happen.

I get your point...I'm sure ideally the knicks want to run this unit fully healthy...but they can't look at this year as a silo...Aller and company are way too smart to leave that big variable sitting over our heads all year.

Yeah, I can see not trading Randle this year to "make one run with everyone" as a logical pathway, but I feel like the other really logical - and more importantly long-view - option out there is moving Randle for younger, lesser pieces that have a chance to grow within the championship window it appears they've opened up this offseason. As you said, their whole approach has been longterm, sustained success.

If they really do not have information that Julius will sign a contract on their terms, the option of running it back with everyone at the risk of losing a valuable, but questionable, asset that could be mitigated by a preseason trade feels much more Cashman's Yankees than it does Leon's Knicks. This FO has been meticulous with their approach and roster building, so I can't see them opening themselves up to an enormous amount of asset risk for the sake of one season. But what do I know - I'm greatly enjoying sitting back and letting Leon/Wes/Brock cook.

Houston could be that partner...

Jabari Smith, Eason, Adams for Randle, rights to Rokas, and the WAS 1st...

Yeah, if anything happens, I'm praying it's with Houston because they have the type of assets that could fit the desires/needs of a really well run team like the present day Knicks.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Shocked nobody has really mentioned Poeltl as an option. He's in that salary range where a S&T with Precious and McBride likely works. Toronto seems to really want to shake up their roster and they are pretty light on depth in the backcourt. Poeltl fills a lot of what Thibs likes in Centers and has some passing chops on offense. He's similar to Mitch in that he doesn't have much of a scoring repertoire but he's a quality depth piece. Deuce would make sense for Toronto.

He's making too much to be a backup, $19.5 million per till 2027.


Richards and Walker are low salary, which is why people are interested in them

[Chislic]

Duece will see a minute decrease during the playoffs if matched up with T. J. McConnell again.