2019 Offseason Speculation Thread - Something gonna happen but will you like it?

[dakomish23]

As long as the Knicks suck, any positivity coming out of the Nets front is going to be magnified. You saw that Woj specifically referenced the Knicks in his tweet yesterday. He knows what he's doing.

He def favors some organizations over others.

IDGAF about the negative vs positive spin (we got negative spin even when we were good) and I don't think major FAs will either.

At least that's the hope.

Yea I was going to say I can't imagine KD having a meeting with us and letting the media bias sway him. His preconceived plan and his meeting with us will determine what he does, not Woj stroking the fire.

Woj needs to stick to reporting the news and leave the analysis to the professionals.

[Knicksfan20]

Funny how 1 playoff win in a top heavy conference during an overachieving season amounts to such playoff ready & experienced pieces.

Which doesnt even matter because they going to get rid of all those pieces now to try and get star players. So what they did in the past is pointless lol.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

One of my favorites coming in with a nice, calm, non biased, no hot takes, viewpoint.

I think the difference most are pointing out is that the Knicks got assets back while the Nets lost a lot more than they gained to open the space...

I don't think it's hot-takey to point that out.

Nets got Allen with the pick from the deal that they sent for Crabbe

Still a bad deal b/c Crabbe never panned out, but in the whole cycle from when they first made the RFA offer to now, they did get a starter level C plus they got Prince.

Also, the Knicks liquidated a top 10 (top 5 IMO) 25 & under prospect to get those assets and do their salary dumps.

It’s not an apples to apples comparison.

also, the knicks don't do that trade if KP doesn't ask out.

i don't think the equivalency is fair because the knicks didn't do the KP deal solely to position themselves for FA. that was merely one of the upsides of the deal.

the nets have given up multiple first rounders to shed salary. scary stuff. you would HOPE they have an expectation. the knicks did something similar just to assure 2 max slots in 2010 with obviously no guarantees. we actually got an MVP-caliber player (with little left in the health tank) with one of our slots. maybe the nets have drawn a line in the sand and feel they absolutely need to add FA talent.

[Jeff Van Gully]

He def favors some organizations over others.

IDGAF about the negative vs positive spin (we got negative spin even when we were good) and I don't think major FAs will either.

At least that's the hope.

Yea I was going to say I can't imagine KD having a meeting with us and letting the media bias sway him. His preconceived plan and his meeting with us will determine what he does, not Woj stroking the fire.

Woj needs to stick to reporting the news and leave the analysis to the professionals.

funny. woj analysis on yahoo is what got him here.

[Fat Kat]

Yea I was going to say I can't imagine KD having a meeting with us and letting the media bias sway him. His preconceived plan and his meeting with us will determine what he does, not Woj stroking the fire.

Woj needs to stick to reporting the news and leave the analysis to the professionals.

funny. woj analysis on yahoo is what got him here.

Woj trades favorable coverage for access. There was an article on it. It works for him.

[AllanHoustonFan]

Did Steven A and Max go at it yet? lmao

Tune in right now for screamin A

[robillionaire]

The difference is we have traded our best player to open space and still gained assets.

They had to give assets away to open space and will have to let his best player go for nothing.

Maybe our primary motivation was because he demanded a trade and not because we wanted to open space

You're right about the primary motivation. They had to strike if what they said is true.

They did the best they could given the crappy hand they were dealt that was dealt in the first place b/c of the crappy landscape they had built.

When we made that trade the media said it was because the Knicks must know KD is coming. I didn't believe that narrative then and I don't now. Like you said, we had to strike. KP was demanding a trade. Now we know about the rape allegations following him at the time. The sequence of events leading up to this Nets move is not the same and from where I'm sitting it seems much more plausible that the Nets recently heard something about Kyrie and gave up serious assets to free up space than the Knicks knew anything when they were essentially forced to honor KP's request for a trade

[robillionaire]

Dolan should ban Max Kellerman from madison square garden when we get good and he tries to show his face in the arena

[Richard4444]

DSJr - Napier
Trier - LaVert
Knox/Frank - Prince
Mitch - Allen

Pick 3 - ...
Mav picks - ...

But the media would tell you Nets have everything and Knicks have nothing. Lol

I would compare

Mitch = Allen (great young centers, Mitch has more upside but Allen is more polished at the moment).
DSJr < LeVert (better guards under contract. Both have great potencial. LeVert is already a good defender and Dennis is a good playmaker. Dennis is still inconsistent at shooting; LeVert is a little more "proven").
Knox = Prince (both has potencial but very inconsistent).
Dotson = Harris (great snipers for cheap)
Frank = Napier (guards of potencial, the first in defense, the second in offense).
Trier = Kurucs (2 surprising rookies).
Kadeem < Spencer (2 defensive backup PGs, the second is a little more proven).

Spencer and LeVert are a little better. But we have a third pick and 7 picks in next 5 seasons.

[BowlRips]

Knicks vs Nets

Breakdown of assets:

Nets:
Spencer Dinwiddie
Joe Harris
Jarret Allen
Rodions Kurucs
Taurean Prince
27th Pick
31st Pick
All Future Draft Picks less 2020 1st Rounder (Top 14 Protected)
D'Angelo Russel Cap Hold of $21mil.

$47mil in Cap Space ($68mil w/o Russel)

Knicks:
Kevin Knox
Mitchell Robinson
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Ntilikina
Damyean Dotson
Alonzo Trier
3rd Pick
55th Pick
All Future Draft Picks
Mavs 2021 Unprotected
Mavs 2023 1st Rounder Top 10 Protected

$71mil in Cap Space

For arguments sake lets say:
Mitchell Robinson >> Jarret Allen
DSJ << Dinwiddie
Knox = Lavert
Dotson = Taurean Prince
Trier < Joe Harris
Frank = Kurucs

Pretty much a wash. You could argue either way but not so far off

Now whats remaining

3rd Pick
55th Pick
All Future 1st
Mavs 2021
Mavs 2023

vs.

27th
31st
All Future 1st Less 2020 Pick

That's not even close.
Russell's cap hold is an asset, but that means you are keeping and not getting 2 max players.
Knicks are positioned far more greatly to maximize on the talent put around the 2 max players then the Nets are.
Nets are going to be locked out of trading future picks until 2022.
Knicks can go out and get real role players with the future Mavs picks.
Remember Tobias Harris (borderline allstar) was just traded for the Miami unprotected pick midseason. Knicks have the ammo to make a similar move to improve the roster with the 2max players

I think no question I'd rather be in the Knicks position.

[AllanHoustonFan]

Screamin A saying Kyrie will go wherever KD wants to go

[AllanHoustonFan]

Why is Max wearing sunglasses? He looks like a douche.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Woj needs to stick to reporting the news and leave the analysis to the professionals.

funny. woj analysis on yahoo is what got him here.

Woj trades favorable coverage for access. There was an article on it. It works for him.

i'd love to see that. makes sense to an extent in principle. i'm not going to talk to you and trust you if you're trashing my team.

it could go the other way too. bombs from disgruntled employees or whatever could fuel negative coverage for a time. the whistleblowers and snitches be out there.

[robillionaire]

If the Nets 2010 Knicks themselves by giving up assets to free up space and then wind up not getting these guys that would be optimal

[dakomish23]

I think the difference most are pointing out is that the Knicks got assets back while the Nets lost a lot more than they gained to open the space...

I don't think it's hot-takey to point that out.

Nets got Allen with the pick from the deal that they sent for Crabbe

Still a bad deal b/c Crabbe never panned out, but in the whole cycle from when they first made the RFA offer to now, they did get a starter level C plus they got Prince.

Also, the Knicks liquidated a top 10 (top 5 IMO) 25 & under prospect to get those assets and do their salary dumps.

It’s not an apples to apples comparison.

also, the knicks don't do that trade if KP doesn't ask out.

i don't think the equivalency is fair because the knicks didn't do the KP deal solely to position themselves for FA. that was merely one of the upsides of the deal.

the nets have given up multiple first rounders to shed salary. scary stuff. you would HOPE they have an expectation. the knicks did something similar just to assure 2 max slots in 2010 with obviously no guarantees. we actually got an MVP-caliber player (with little left in the health tank) with one of our slots. maybe the nets have drawn a line in the sand and feel they absolutely need to add FA talent.

This def puts them in the FA or bust category. I never do a move like this till I got a commitment from the guy.

When folks say “we got assets while dumping and they used assets for dumping” it’s leaving out a ton if context.

We gave up way more than a #17 and a lotto protected pick that turns into seconds, IMO.

A lot of context being left out by both sides. Some of these anti NYK media takes have ignored that KP wanted out and aren’t giving us credit for how we salvaged a situation we screwed up. Some of the pro Knicks takes ignores that we traded a top 10 under 23 prospect to get that haul / space.

[Fat Kat]

Players aren’t making constructing scorecards comparing the Knicks and Nets. If Durant leaves GS, he’ll come to the Knicks. If Durant stays, Pills will have to resist signing B-level talent to max contracts. That’s my only trepidation.

[dakomish23]

Yea I was going to say I can't imagine KD having a meeting with us and letting the media bias sway him. His preconceived plan and his meeting with us will determine what he does, not Woj stroking the fire.

Woj needs to stick to reporting the news and leave the analysis to the professionals.

funny. woj analysis on yahoo is what got him here.

I thought it’s for his ability to break stories. To me that’s reporting.

Analysis is like what Lowe does. He never breaks any news, just breaks down the ripple effects and provides some back story.

[Richard4444]

Teams don't know. They make these clear cap trades to give themselves a chance. That's it. It's not the first time. Remember how teams made these moves in 2010 to give themselves a chance at LeBron and ended up with nothing?

Nets must do something good with his cap space, independently of their sucess in big FAs names market. Cap Space is important this year. Next year will be few good FAs. Thats little incentive to have Cap Space next year.

[Fat Kat]

funny. woj analysis on yahoo is what got him here.

Woj trades favorable coverage for access. There was an article on it. It works for him.

i'd love to see that. makes sense to an extent in principle. i'm not going to talk to you and trust you if you're trashing my team.

it could go the other way too. bombs from disgruntled employees or whatever could fuel negative coverage for a time. the whistleblowers and snitches be out there.

From a 2014 article

Wojnarowski has needed more than just a strong work ethic, though, to develop the best sources in basketball. If you look closely at his columns and talk to people in the NBA, you discover that he mixes his reporting and opinion writing in improper ways, rewarding sources with flattery and punishing the uncooperative with nastiness. In fact, it often appears as though Adrian Wojnarowski lets his sourcing dictate not just the topic but also the tone of his writing. In private, NBA reporters complain endlessly about Wojnarowski’s methods. Some of it is undoubtedly professional jealousy, but his body of work shows they also have a point.

I think Perry and Mills have become more media friendly than past GMs, but they don’t like information leaked. The Porzingis trade came out of nowhere. Woj was probably pissed they didn’t throw him a bone. I’d probably give him a little something every now and then

[robillionaire]

Thing about it is that if we don't sign anybody and continue the rebuild, the media will take a crap on us and say we traded KP for nothing and a bunch of other narratives, but that's just not true, it would make perfect sense given our situation to continue the rebuild and the KP trade still makes sense in that context.

A part of me (the negative part that knows none of these dudes are coming here) wishes we would have been the one to take crabbe and those 2 nets picks from them to let them free up the cap space instead of Atlanta