Offseason Thread: The Waiting is the Hardest Part

[BeagleBoss]

It's a gut call. Not a whole lot of reason behind it.

My gut says no.

my heart is saying yes but my head is saying no. anybody else with other body parts speaking to them ?

Those two are often at odds. I give the gut the tiebreaker.

Always go with your gut!

[god shammgod]

how is dolan a bad owner by insisting on that ? it makes him look smart to me

[thebuzzardman]

Hyperbole aside, what is the most realistic player KD is after a year of rehabbing?

I'll throw out guesses

Tobias Harris
Faded Melo
Cadillac Ryan Anderson
End of the Road Pete Maravich
Post surgery Kobe
Fancy Mirotic
Old Dirk

Anyone?

Old Dirk with a dash of faded Melo most likely

I cannot for the life of me believe so many here are rationalizing away the truth that there is NO HISTORICAL BASIS for saying KD will be anything like the player he was before

It is completely irrational. Post-achilles players are never the same and it does not mean saying 70% of old KD is better than the rest of the league. That's nonsensical.

Once a player loses their mobility and ability to push off with a first step and has to depend mostly on craft and guile, then that is a lot less than 70% of who they were in a league full of super human specimens.

He is not just going to shoot over people. This is ridiculous. He is going to still have to rely on his handle which should largely be intact and make sudden cuts or pull-ups on his jumper, the very thing that will put more stress on the injured achilles.

You won't have him crashing the boards, you won't have him making big defensive plays at the rim and even his passing ability will be lessened because that still requires lower body push-off strength, otherwise you're trying to arm strength everything which leads to muscular imbalances and more injuries.

People need to stop kidding themselves because the history of these injuries does not have a 30 something player coming back to close to whom they were before.

And that my friends is why those who pound the table for KD are just gamblers, but not professional gamblers. The risk that you are tying up max money into at best a complementary player when they come back is an exceedingly high probability.

Probably what you said.

KD would have to be a pretty big outlier.

Hey, here's a couple of "non huge athlete guys"

Larry Bird was a legendary player who got reduced by a bad back injury. His stats, after the year he was limited to 6 games, looked good for a season, but he was hobbled. Then I'd say he got about 80% of his former output for 2 more years and just had to quit.
That "statistically roughly the same" season was Larry putting in a Herculean effort to try to be the same. The stats were there, but Bird wasn't "the same". But probably 90%. In the following two seasons he was just clearly hurting. And then he hung it up year 3, even though he averaged 20 ppg. It was too painful.

Don Mattingly in baseball had a bad back. He could still play. He went from HOF, Micky Mantle like numbers, to good field, decent average nearly no power.

These were back injuries - apples to oranges - but "skilled\smart" guys don't necessarily fare well after major injury either.

[F N 11]

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Ohhhhhh boy, here we go. I was wondering how close to free agency we could get until the NY media started putting tweets out about Dolan getting involved in free agent decisions. This one tweet is gonna be something that all the other media people are gonna run with and twist things around and everything else they can do to make sure that every free agent knows that Dolan is a bad owner and is up to his old tricks and is getting involved in decision making and how it's not Perry making all the decisions.

Thanks a lot Adam Douche.

U know it was going to happen.

[jvsimonetti0514]

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Who Monstared Dolan's brain and gave him some common sense?

[Capn'O]

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it could be we're pulling back like the cap said. dolan as the risk averse voice of reason is a hell of a plot turn.

I actually love this by Dolan. It means if management pulls out he can take the fall.

[BeagleBoss]

Any team would show caution man. It’s called doing your job.

It's annoying because EVERY owner is checking out KDs medical. But since it's that idiot Dolan, it's a story and the media will blame him when KD doesn't come. Lord I cannot wait until Dolan goes away forever.

[Metta World WAR]

If they insist on signing actual players rather than taking on the corpses of bad contracts, then what the Knicks really oughta do is take on some lower max, younger guys, guys in that KP-range of potential, then maybe use them to either keep or "trade up" next time a disgruntled superstar becomes available. Pay them well, but only give Team options. I'm curious; is there any sort of option out there where both the Team and Player both need to opt into it in order for the contract to continue? A Player/Team option hybrid?

[Knick4Real]

how is dolan a bad owner by insisting on that ? it makes him look smart to me

Especially since it's HIS money!

[thebuzzardman]

Hyperbole aside, what is the most realistic player KD is after a year of rehabbing?

I'll throw out guesses

Tobias Harris
Faded Melo
Cadillac Ryan Anderson
End of the Road Pete Maravich
Post surgery Kobe
Fancy Mirotic
Old Dirk

Anyone?

Post-ACL tear Bernard?

Excellent choice

[Starksfor3]

This is what I think is happening. KD and KI both want the Knicks and before KD's injury, the Knicks wanted KD and were willing to pick up KI to make it happen.

Now once KD got hurt, the Knicks balked and were lukewarm towards taking on KI just to sign an injured KD. KI realizing the Knicks don't really want him turned his attention to Brooklyn and is trying to convince KD to sign with him and join the Nets.

Bottom line, I don't think the Knicks really want KD anymore at max money and maybe both KD/KI are trying to use the Nets as a scare tactic to get the Knicks panicking and back involved due to the thought of the Nets trumping them.

[Rooster8]

The only free agent I really really want is Kawhi...
I know it's a long shot but at the end of the day he is a champion, and healthy as of right now.

they needed to give him 25 games off this season and his knee was still messed up badly from overcompensating because of the hamstring injury. so while as not as dire as kd, he aint really healthy either.

True. But he'll be good to go when the season starts. And honestly I think you'll start to see a lot more stars taking load management games off in the future.

[digitaldropoff]

LOL.....Dolan trying to act meticulous and cautious around the KD situation when most believe KD doesn't actually have interest in going there in the first place. Very Trumpesque.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

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He's just inferring that it's Dolan, how do you know it's not just Mills and Perry doing their due diligence?

[HerSports85]

There no question, Any team should be able/want to view the medicals. It’s not just the Achilles, it’s the calf and foot as well.

[Deeeez Knicks]

If Dolan passes on Durant based on the medical report you know Durant is coming back 100%.

Whatever Dolan says do the opposite.

i know you're kidding, but it's possible he learned from the amare situation

If Dolan learns anything it would be a bigger miracle then Durant coming back 100%.

Houston, McDyess, Francis, Penny, Amare, Melo, McGrady, Baron Davis, Derrick Rose, Noah

[Billy Goat]

Not a chance. Trier, Frank and DSJr is as high as I'd go. Knox is either staying or being traded for a player we can use next season. 3 young productive players for a guy who, as great as he's been, is causing us to repeat the Melo situation again, will be sitting out all of next year and will be 32 when he returns? Nah, they can take Frank and be thankful we're parting with 2 young scorers when we could just outright sign him, if this was his preference anyway.

the problem with the Melo trade wasnt necessarily the assets given up it was the fact that Melo wasnt that good.

Trier, DS JR and Knox for Kevin Durant is an lol no brainer.

No brainer? When he'll be 32, coming off an Achilles tear and entering a 5 year max contract? You serious? And this is exactly like the Melo situation where Durant has every opportunity to come here, no strings attached but wanted the extra year and few extra dollars which causes NY to unnecessarily give back assets. This can be avoided if he'd just come here as a UFA. Instead, he'd be asking us to unnecessarily pony up for his services and you'd be cool with that. This is worse because we have no idea what Durant we'd be overpaying for and, like most players, they don't give a $#!t about the Knicks situation. You'd have to have no brains to place yourself behind that kind of ticking time bomb so I guess you're right...it WOULD be a lol no-brainer. Let him stay in GS if I have to max him with the 5th year, give up players and pray his old ass heals like a young buck after one of the worst injuries a basketball player can sustain. Sheesh.

I'd be cool with it because your proposal was for Trier, whos a replacement level player/undersized guard who holds the ball too much, Knox who was awful last season and Dennis Smith JR who is a borderline NBA player right now. Stop overrating the Knicks talent, there's a reason why they won 17 games. Kevin Durant at 32 off an injury is worth more than those 3 players combined and then some.

[digitaldropoff]

This is what I think is happening. KD and KI both want the Knicks and before KD's injury, the Knicks wanted KD and were willing to pick up KI to make it happen.

Now once KD got hurt, the Knicks balked and were lukewarm towards taking on KI just to sign an injured KD. KI realizing the Knicks don't really want him turned his attention to Brooklyn and is trying to convince KD to sign with him and join the Nets.

Bottom line, I don't think the Knicks really want KD anymore at max money and maybe both KD/KI are trying to use the Nets as a scare tactic to get the Knicks panicking and back involved due to the thought of the Nets trumping them.

Or.....neither KD or Irving wanted the Knicks in the first place. NY fans seem to always assume everyone wants to come there, for whatever reason....even though many, many offseason prove this to be wrong. Kemba isn't even interested.

[god shammgod]

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6:40 for the dolan talk

[thebuzzardman]

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it could be we're pulling back like the cap said. dolan as the risk averse voice of reason is a hell of a plot turn.

JD & The Risk Assessments