Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[TrueWarrior]

Its funny how all of us are so split on what kinda packages we want to offer.

Many, like myself, want to keep more players and give up more picks. I just think we may as well keep the guys we already have and know. Obi and IQ help us (and Mitchell) more now than some late 1st rounder in 5 years, and we wouldnt be able to get much in a trade for a pick like that either (we wouldn’t be able to trade some of our future picks anyway).

Remember, if a few of our guys breakout we can always get assets for them later if we want. Randle, RJ, Brunson, Obi, IQ, Hart, Mitch, Cam, etc can be traded down the line if its not working out. They wont be dead weight if they’re playing well, even if they got paid.

[Juco24]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=8HyiLhigy2t7QZZRHHSbGg

THIS

[F N 11]

Donovan Mitchell part 45 He’s coming home

[TrueWarrior]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=8HyiLhigy2t7QZZRHHSbGg

THIS

Id prefer not doing this trade at all unless we get a good deal, which we wont.

I just think so many of our players’ values are poised to go up this season. Call me an optimist but Randle and Rose should bounce back, Brunson will be good, RJ/Obi/Grimes/IQ/Hart can take leaps.

Not smart to cash in our chips right now for a B level star, but I suppose it’s inevitable.

[Bob Ross]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for these negotiations. I can see Ainge saying to Leon we have X offer from team X that we'll take if you don't up the offer, while Leon says cool we'll we can just get X player (similar) for what we're offering you and I'm ok taking that deal.

I bet both parties are doing just that- seeing what else they can get for their asking price/offer is

[Iron Mantis]

Regardless of what's been reported... I think RJ ends up going to the Jazz

No.

Ainge is not trying to max ANYONE right now, let alone RJ.

Leon isn't removing a core piece who is the verge of breaking out; he's adding to the core.

[Polk377]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=8HyiLhigy2t7QZZRHHSbGg

THIS

Id prefer not doing this trade at all unless we get a good deal, which we wont.

I just think so many of our players’ values are poised to go up this season. Call me an optimist but Randle and Rose should bounce back, Brunson will be good, RJ/Obi/Grimes/IQ/Hart can take leaps.

Not smart to cash in our chips right now for a B level star, but I suppose it’s inevitable.

I would give up all available 8 picks if it meant we could keep the core of young players together and just salary match with Fournier and Rose.

[rammagen]

We could keep a lot of those draft picks, grimes, and Obi if we work a sign and trade for Collin Sexton. He is 6’1 and can score 20pg…. (Runs)

And that is the leverage we should apply. How about we got to the Cabs offer Fournier and first rnd and get a younger player at a cheaper price?
The game is played both ways.
But D Mitch is the better player.

[Nazrmohamed]

Don't give more than 3-4 picks. This is beyond crazy now. Ainge must be stopped.

I admit I was too lazy to read all pages but what if it's 5 picks but little in regards to young prospects, would you do that? For instance let's say they'd accept Fournier and Rose and 5 picks but the rest of youth remain untouched.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

[aggo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

imo we need to keep IQ.

having a proven NBA-level bench guy who can put up 10pts is really important.

[3toheadmelo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

imo we need to keep IQ.

having a proven NBA-level bench guy who can put up 10pts is really important.

We’ll still have Cam

[Madskillzz024]

I’m hoping the final trade ends in Obi + Grimes+ McBride +Fournier or Rose + 5-6 picks max.

That would open up 4 roster spots to sign some vets and hopefully have a decent season.

I assume both 23 firsts (Knicks and Mavs) can be moved since we technically selected
Ousmane Dieng and then traded him to the Thunder ?

[aggo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

imo we need to keep IQ.

having a proven NBA-level bench guy who can put up 10pts is really important.

We’ll still have Cam

good point, we should keep both then

Obi, Grimes, McBride, 5 FRPs, +1 swap, salary fill

thats the most I would be willing to offer.

ideally we can get it done with Obi/Grimes/mcbride/ 4frps.

but, I think if that was possible the deal would've already been made

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I'd rather just see what Grimes can do starting, that is how you really build winners, is when some young player you have outplays their contract. He averaged 13ppg 3rpg 1apg on 46% and 44% from 3 in his 6 starts as a rookie, the summer league performance is just confirmation that something is there with him. That is what a really prudent front office would do, it's not about Grimes being better than Mitchell, it's about how much can Grimes give us in relation to Mitchell, if as a starter he gives you 60% of the offense with much better defense then it's an idiotic trade.

[sol537]

Its funny how all of us are so split on what kinda packages we want to offer.

Many, like myself, want to keep more players and give up more picks. I just think we may as well keep the guys we already have and know. Obi and IQ help us (and Mitchell) more now than some late 1st rounder in 5 years, and we wouldnt be able to get much in a trade for a pick like that either (we wouldn’t be able to trade some of our future picks anyway).

Remember, if a few of our guys breakout we can always get assets for them later if we want. Randle, RJ, Brunson, Obi, IQ, Hart, Mitch, Cam, etc can be traded down the line if its not working out. They wont be dead weight if they’re playing well, even if they got paid.

I too would rather keep more of our own guys versus those protected picks.

I'm fine with Cam, Rokas going out. I'm good with Rose and Fournier going out as well.

Would like to keep IQ, Grimes, Obi if at all possible.

[aggo]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

I also think if we can keep 2 of IQ/Obi/Cam


thats more help than Donovan Mitchell has also ever had with Utah


Conley
Bojan
Ingles
Gobert
Clarkson

vs

Brunson
RJ
Mitch
Randle
2 of Obi/IQ/Cam
Hartenstein



in 2019 Mudiay/Jeff Green played 54 games for them. Mudiay/Green wouldn't even sniff 1 game with IQ/Cam on our roster.

[thebuzzardman]

Leon and Julius need to be a bit pragmatic here and draw the line at 5 picks!!

I do understand the excitement and the inclination to overpay though, when the trade goes down it will move the Knicks immeidately to contenders for the foreseeable future.

HOF coach + MVP leader + 2 efficient lead guard scorers is a finalist team no doubt, assuming no injuries.

I'd assume the haggling is over number of picks but also which years. Knicks might want to maintain back to back picks in one year or not trade completely out of the 2023 draft even if it's just holding the Mavs pick, who knows.

There is probably various stances put up by both Ainge and Rose about which player Ainge wants, who Rose really wants to keep - some of it true, some of it just to drive price or win another point. I can easily see Ainge asking for Grimes, IQ, Obi without wanting 2 of them, just to extract 2 picks or ensure his pick price (and his realistic one, not his totally win the trade one) is met.

Then again, Ainge is a nut and wants to dominate every trade like a d*uche.

Pick price or price "get a star" has been creeping up even before Ainge. Davis went for a sh*t ton, Harden has been expensive several times, KD's price was a bit "pick steep". I'm less sold on idea Gobert created some "new price" as it's Ainge fleecing a team - it's allowed to be a one off, not set a new bar. I mean, seriously?

The Jazz fan on here had a point - The Knicks grab bag of picks from other teams isn't that great as the are all protected so they fall in the early 20's, basically, except the Bucks 2025, and well, that's probably 20's anyway.
On the other hand, he overstated the extent to which they "won't convey"
Right off the bat, the Mavs pick will convey. So will the Bucks.
Nuggets pick will convey and will convey in 2023 (I didn't know we had this pick)
I'd say at least one out of two of the Pistons/Wizards picks convey.

Anyway, I had this in some ebook post somewhere, but if the Knicks do 2023/25/27 unprotected, that's equal value to bulk of picks in Gobert trade. I don't think the Knicks want to deal 2029, and that was only top 5 protected, so it might take two "ok" picks, like Mavs and Pistons or Mavs and Wizards or even Pistons/Wizards to kind of even it out.

So, it's possible the Knicks can look like they are trading 5 picks, when the value is more like the Wolves 4.

Also, Wolves put two "ok" pick-like players in the trade, just drafted Wessler, and drafted two years ago Bolomero.
I guess there can be some negotiation around perceived value of IQ or Grimes to those guys, Knicks asking if they'll take a pick instead of IQ or Grimes, and so on.

I think every pick the Knicks own from other teams should be on the table, but I'm fairly sure Ainge sees them as just scrap.

The prize assets are unprotected Knicks picks, because it's historically guaranteed the Knicks will suck at some point in the next 6-7 years.

Mitchell is a legit star but not a tier-1 superstar who automatically puts you in championship contention, so it's important that the Knicks have a safety net in the form of draft capital that they own. They can't trade them all away (e.g. by including pick swaps) in this deal, hence I would as much as possible replace Knicks picks with players, and identify 1-2 with some upside who you'd keep out of the deal.

So, again, I'll counter that a bit.

I've stated in every trade scenario, except maybe my very earliest unrealistic ones, that the Knicks are probably sending out 23/25/27, as they are unprotected like the TWolves - probably better, as both teams should have a similar arc of being good and then not good.
The Mavs, Nuggets, Bucks picks are all protected, but will 99% convey and will convey within the next 3 drafts. Bucks and Mavs picks in the mid 20's? Sure. But 1st round picks they are. The nuggets pick is like top 15 protected, so that's also mid 20's.
It's the Pistons/Wiz picks that more questionable, but I think they reasonably convey, also 20's, maybe slightly better chance they are early 20 than mid/late 20
The difference is Wolves sent 2029 only protected 1-5, in a year they probably won't be good, and I think the Knicks have to send two (probably - could be three) of the "grab bag" of picks to match that in value.

These are negotiating points.
TL/DR - I don't think the Knicks grab bag of 1sts are GREAT, but they aren't sh*t either.

[Fury]

Brunson
Mitchell
RJ/Cam
Randle
Mitch

Is more help Mitchell has than Melo ever got. Just do the deal. IQ, Obi, Mcbride is replaceable. Will suck losing grimes but he’s not a dealbreaker

I also think if we can keep 2 of IQ/Obi/Cam


thats more help than Donovan Mitchell has also ever had with Utah


Conley
Bojan
Ingles
Gobert
Clarkson

vs

Brunson
RJ
Mitch
Randle
2 of Obi/IQ/Cam
Hartenstein



in 2019 Mudiay/Jeff Green played 54 games for them. Mudiay/Green wouldn't even sniff 1 game with IQ/Cam on our roster.

**** didn’t realize that Utah had two players who you could combine to make the name Bojangles

[KnixinSix]

imo we need to keep IQ.

having a proven NBA-level bench guy who can put up 10pts is really important.

We’ll still have Cam

good point, we should keep both then

Obi, Grimes, McBride, 5 FRPs, +1 swap, salary fill

thats the most I would be willing to offer.

ideally we can get it done with Obi/Grimes/mcbride/ 4frps.

but, I think if that was possible the deal would've already been made

One of IQ /Grimes need to stay as they are our only two non starter taller guards that play defense and can hit the 3.