Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[NBA Fan 1234]

Meanwhile, Shumpert is knocking down 3s in the playoffs and Winslow has better handles, better athlete, and rim finisher.

As a 3rd/4th option playing next to the best (or second best) player in the NBA. Also, the athleticism is a wash.

Keep telling that to yourself, bro.

Am I wrong...?

[Fat]

Nobody talks about winslows ball handling when they mention him thats not his strong point. He"s not a great or elite ball handler he"s decent and needs to tighten that part of his game up. Where he shines is his quick first step and ability to finish at the rim and draw contact along with his ability to defend and rebound.

[TrueWarrior]

Top 4 Teams Have Reached out to Mudiay; Workouts Likely in Early June

May 23rd, 2015 8:33 pm
Adam Zagoria, SNY.TV

The top four teams in the NBA Draft have reached out to point guard Emmanuel Mudiay, who is expected to begin individual team workouts in early June, sources told SNY.tv.

The top two teams in the draft — the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Los Angeles Lakers — have the option of drafting big men Karl-Anthony Towns of Kentucky and Jahlil Okafor of Duke — but could opt to either trade their pick and move down, or select Mudiay or Ohio State guard D’Angelo Russell in the top two, which could shake things up at the top.

DraftExpress.com projects the Philadelphia 76ers taking Russell at No. 3, with the 6-foot-5 Mudiay going No. 4 to the Knicks in the June 25 NBA Draft.

Meantime, Mudiay has remained in the New York area since Tuesday’s lottery and has spent the past two days working out at House of Sports in Ardsley, N.Y., where he also watched AAU games on the Under Armour Association circuit.

Mudiay declined an interview during Saturday’s games, but appeared to enjoy himself watching the talent on hand, which included potential future lottery pick Thon Maker, a 7-footer who could be part of the 2016 NBA Draft.

“Emmanuel has been in New York all week, training twice a day and mentoring some of the young kids from the Under Armour program he grew up under, Mo Williams Academy,” Nick Blatchford, head of grassroots basketball for Under Armour, told SNY.tv. “He is a true basketball junkie who would rather spend a holiday weekend in the gym working out and watching games than anywhere else. He loves the basketball energy and fan base in New York and has enjoyed training and hanging out with us here over the last few days.”

As SNY.tv reported Tuesday night, Knicks GM Steve Mills spoke briefly with Mudiay during Tuesday’s lottery, and the Knicks are among the teams interested in Mudiay, who played 12 games in China last season against pros after opting not to play for former Knicks coach Larry Brown at SMU.

Meantime, reports have circulated that A) the Wolves would be open to trading the No. 1 pick and that; B) the Lakers are not married to drafting either Towns or Okafor at No. 2.

If either or both happens, Mudiay could go before the Knicks draft at No. 4 and Phil Jackson and company could possibly be in the mix for one of the big men, although that seems unlikely at this stage.

Under one scenario presented to SNY.tv, the Wolves could trade down and deal Rubio in exchange for an asset plus the rights to a lower pick, where they could take Kentucky’s Willie-Cauley Stein or another athletic big man.

“You never know what it could mean, if you could get the right one or two guys that could change your team,” Wolves owner Glen Taylor told reporters after the lottery. “When you already have a bunch of young guys, you have to look at this type of stuff. But I think it’s a very hard decision to make.”

“I think it’s probably highly unlikely, but I think it’s part of the discussion,” he added.

[IAmTheBest]

To be honest, i'd prefer either of the guards over either of the bigmen.

I'll be happy with any of the 4 though

[DickGrayson]

Yeesh. Quite a few blatant lies in these posts... Justise started the last 14 games at PF. He shot under 50% in only 2 of those games and per 40 he averaged 19.1/10.9/3.0/2.8/1.4 on 56% shooting and 65 TS%. The other 3 games you guys counted as the second half of the season where he actually played SF he shot a combined 11/27 (40.7%) for 41 points on 56 TS which is what he was doing overall in the first half of the season. Justise's play DID NOT improve until he started playing PF and that's 2 positions away from what he's physically built to play. And yeah he played well in the Clemson game but he was at PF and Tyus Jones was showing out and creating looks for the team (9 assists). He was also matched up against Donate Grantham aka the worst starting PF in the ACC.

Worst argument I've seen so far for Winslow. This whole "he played best at PF" thing is so overblown it's actually hilarious. All this means is that he guarded the second biggest dude on the other team most of the time. The other times he was guarding the other teams best player unless it was the Center.

On offense, if teams put a smaller guy on him...he took advantage of his size... If teams put a bigger dude on him...he took advantage of his speed and athleticism...if teams put a guy about the same size as him...he's still a pain in a$$ to defend and be defended by.

It's not like Winslow is strictly going to be covered every game by the other teams SF in the NBA. What happens if we play the Bulls? Butler would be on Melo and Dunleavy would be on Winslow. He would get his offensively and defensively against him.

KEEP SLEEPING KNICK FANS!

I agree. These arguments are weak and unconvincing. Winslow was a bigger big man than Okafor and played more physical than he did. It alloyed dude to run a 3 guard line up with Winslow at PF. These Winslow haters try to make it seem like Winslow versatility is a limitation of his.

Winslow is faster than most 3s
Winslow is as fast and stronger than most 2s.

But yet he's a SG with the skills of the PF. It's a complete joke.

[TrueWarrior]

Nobody talks about winslows ball handling when they mention him thats not his strong point. He"s not a great or elite ball handler he"s decent and needs to tighten that part of his game up. Where he shines is his quick first step and ability to finish at the rim and draw contact along with his ability to defend and rebound.

Winslow is nice. I like him at #5. He's not a finished product by any means. Thing is we'd be hoping he improves his handle, passing, creativity, and such to levels that Mudiay is already at. The difference between them as prospects offensively is apparent, and defensively Mudiay has very good potential there himself. Doesn't mean Mudiay will turn out better, but right now he's on a different level. Winslow looks like the "safer" choice in that he should become a great superglue guy at least and not need the ball to make things happen, but it's a big stretch to see him turning into a go to guy. Dudes like Kawhi and Jimmy B are not the norm.

Players with Mudiay's skillset are just harder to find too. 6'5'' athletic true PGs. Closest FA is Reggie Jackson, who is shorter/weaker and more of a SG with attitude red flags. While there are so many athletic D/3 wings out there in the vein of Winslow now. A bunch just in this FA class like Kawhi, Carroll, Middleton, Butler, Shump, Danny Green, Draymond Green, Jeff Green, Gerald Green, Josh Smith, Thad, Afflalo, Matthews, Crowder, Deng, Wilson Chandler, Wes Johnson, KJ McDaniels, Aminu, etc. Chances are Winslow ends up somewhere in this group talent wise, which is a nice player but unless he really is the next Kawhi he's a dime a dozen.

SF is the easiest position to fill. We have 3 on our team already in Melo, Early, and Thanasis. This pick is a very easy decision for me.

[IAmTheBest]

Grayson and KnicksTape21 still missing the point of all of this - Winslow is not the better prospect. We should refrain from taking him at 4. Even if he is capable of becoming a great player, which most people agree he is, he should not be taken over the elite prospects.

That is just a poor decision. For a 2 and even 3 his handling is not good enough. His half court game is nto good enough. Saying he was more important than Okafor is comical.

Let's just hope Phil doesnt subscribe to these guys' train of thought. Although these guys are relatively sane compared to the guys who want to take WCS and those euros at 4...

[ibraheim718]

Don't forget how deft Winslow was when faced with big-big double teams. True big man.

[DickGrayson]

So he played well for a month. Again, he did his damage as a 6'6 PF with the strength but not the size / wingspan for a SF and without the skills for a 2.

Trust me, I'm the LAST person who would ever turn down a defensive player. I just don't like defensive only guys with a very limited offensive game and am not buying his hype.

For a month?
Why downplay?
March is by far the most important significant month in NCAA basketball. It outweighs any game against a small school like Elon or even my Manhattan College.

Winslow showcased he was the best player that month and that's what should matters. A player who can show ability to step up his level of people when his team faces elimination. Would it shock you if Winslow ends up being clutch for his team in a future playoff series? Toughness, determination, will power and strength, Winslow is exactly what the NBA needs (it's becoming a soft league) and he'll set the tone and make the league aware of his game just based off his attitude and how he carries like himself, a relentless warrior who battles until the last second of the 4th quarter. Winslow game goes beyond skill. You can teach and practice skill. You can't practice Winslow's will power. It's innated. It's funny how Knick fans downplay Winslow but Winslow represents how the 90s Knicks use to play.

Winslow was the toughest inside player for DUKE when Okafor went soft mode and all DUKE had was Jefferson and Plumlee...what does that tell you about Winslow size?

Despite being 6"6, he plays bigger than his size...how many times people are going to undermine a player because of his size? Winslow will play SF in the NBA. Please can we end this mad talk about him being a 4 or 2. He's a pure 3 and will be a damn good one. Anyone who does their research on Winslow know his offensive isn't limited. It just hasn't reached its potential, its raw but its far from limited.

I'm downplaying it because it was a stretch of games where he played as an undersized 4 -- when you have a SG without the requisite skills to play SG playing PF and expect him to be a great SG, you're going to be disappointed. If he is a small 3, why take one when we have Melo? I'm not sold on him being a wing simply because he looked his best when he was playing PF (this is throughout the entire season). Also, him being "the toughest player inside for Duke when Okafor went soft mode and all Duke had was Jefferson and Plumlee" means nothing

I've done my research. I've watched my games. I've read the analytical reports and stats. Trust me, I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass. Just because I disagree with you does not mean you have seen more than me or I have not seen enough. Anyways, enjoy your day. Agree to disagree.

List me one draft site that as Winslow listed as a SG.
If you're a unsuccessful, you may never spew hot smelly acid about expectations or requisite as a shooting guard.


There's no evidence that Winslow can't play the 3.
Its just mindless hate...Nothing constructive.... Winslow too short.... Winslow can't dribble or create offense to be a 2....Winslow is a role player.... zero substance when Winslow proved all these notions wrong. But yea... Have a nice day. Gonna eat some bistec con habichuelas.

[TrueWarrior]

I'm downplaying it because it was a stretch of games where he played as an undersized 4 -- when you have a SG without the requisite skills to play SG playing PF and expect him to be a great SG, you're going to be disappointed. If he is a small 3, why take one when we have Melo? I'm not sold on him being a wing simply because he looked his best when he was playing PF (this is throughout the entire season). Also, him being "the toughest player inside for Duke when Okafor went soft mode and all Duke had was Jefferson and Plumlee" means nothing

I've done my research. I've watched my games. I've read the analytical reports and stats. Trust me, I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass. Just because I disagree with you does not mean you have seen more than me or I have not seen enough. Anyways, enjoy your day. Agree to disagree.

List me one draft site that as Winslow listed as a SG.
If you're a unsuccessful, you may never spew hot smelly acid about expectations or requisite as a shooting guard.


There's no evidence that Winslow can't play the 3.
Its just mindless hate...Nothing constructive.... Winslow too short.... Winslow can't dribble or create offense to be a 2....Winslow is a role player.... zero substance when Winslow proved all these notions wrong. But yea... Have a nice day. Gonna eat some bistec con habichuelas.

Dear Dickie Ventenburger,

I'll lay it out and repeat it nice and simply. The reason people been saying Winslow not being an ideal 2 is a problem is because we have a guy named CARMELO ANTHONY at the 3. Of course Winslow can play the 3. That's his position silly goose. There's been no indications we're moving Melo back to the 4 though, so the only open spot is at the 2. If we wanted to force somebody to play the 2 then Mudiay is a better option there also, since he can actually create a bit.

Hope you understand,
Love TW

[ibraheim718]

It's hilarious because Devin Booker who is 6'6" is labeled everywhere a SG and Winslow who is also 6'6" is labeled a SF..







because he can't shoot. Prototypical SG is 6'6".. sorry. It's always been.

[whocares1]

Winslow could handle 2 guard. He is similar to Butler, and there aren't any 2 guards besides a few that Winslow couldn't keep up with. The dude can ball and will only get better. Winslow would be a great pick up

[DickGrayson]

Don't forget how deft Winslow was when faced with big-big double teams. True big man.

OKAFOR got shut down by Gonzaga Kaminsky Poeltl.... Most of it wasn't even Double coverage... You should remember..... Winslow stepped up and carried Duke to a championship where as Okafor folded.

[ibraheim718]

There have been countless times.. I'm sure we've all experienced them when you first start a job and you want to prove yourself to people and you're kind of itching to get your hands dirty. You hop in that back-hoe and you're digging a ditch and you accidentally break some piping or you get an order for some poached eggs and you're like "yeah I can cook a poached egg" and you're busting yolks all over the place. That was Phil's first year of work. I doubt he'll get any worse but I just don't trust him. He was probably like "hey I found this trade machine thingy and it's pretty cool.. let's do a real one for fun" that was the Chandler trade.

[ibraheim718]

Don't forget how deft Winslow was when faced with big-big double teams. True big man.

OKAFOR got shut down by Gonzaga Kaminsky Poeltl.... Most of it wasn't even Double coverage... You should remember..... Winslow stepped up and carried Duke to a championship where as Okafor folded.

Shut up.. none of them stopped him one or one or without the complete attention of everyone else on the frontline. How many double teams did Winslow face?

How many 7 footers did Winslow bang with?

[Mr Rabbit]

So...what's the gist of this conversation? People are advocating taking Winslow at 4 over who exactly? Mudiay? Russell? Jah?

[DickGrayson]

I'm downplaying it because it was a stretch of games where he played as an undersized 4 -- when you have a SG without the requisite skills to play SG playing PF and expect him to be a great SG, you're going to be disappointed. If he is a small 3, why take one when we have Melo? I'm not sold on him being a wing simply because he looked his best when he was playing PF (this is throughout the entire season). Also, him being "the toughest player inside for Duke when Okafor went soft mode and all Duke had was Jefferson and Plumlee" means nothing

I've done my research. I've watched my games. I've read the analytical reports and stats. Trust me, I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass. Just because I disagree with you does not mean you have seen more than me or I have not seen enough. Anyways, enjoy your day. Agree to disagree.

List me one draft site that as Winslow listed as a SG.
If you're a unsuccessful, you may never spew hot smelly acid about expectations or requisite as a shooting guard.


There's no evidence that Winslow can't play the 3.
Its just mindless hate...Nothing constructive.... Winslow too short.... Winslow can't dribble or create offense to be a 2....Winslow is a role player.... zero substance when Winslow proved all these notions wrong. But yea... Have a nice day. Gonna eat some bistec con habichuelas.

Dear Dickie Ventenburger,

I'll lay it out and repeat it nice and simply. The reason people been saying Winslow not being an ideal 2 is a problem is because we have a guy named CARMELO ANTHONY at the 3. Of course Winslow can play the 3. That's his position silly goose. There's been no indications we're moving Melo back to the 4 though, so the only open spot is at the 2. If we wanted to force somebody to play the 2 then Mudiay is a better option there also, since he can actually create a bit.

Hope you understand,
Love TW

Melo is a 4.
Winslow creates offense. Rated 2nd best passer at SF and slashes to the basket, will only create more offense for others.

Again, please show where it says that Winslow will be a 2. You have no articles. No sources. Nothing. Typical Fake Warrior post.

Lol at mudiay is a 2.

You guys and these height standards..... Lol.

[TrueWarrior]

It's hilarious because Devin Booker who is 6'6" is labeled everywhere a SG and Winslow who is also 6'6" is labeled a SF..







because he can't shoot. Prototypical SG is 6'6".. sorry. It's always been.

It's not just that he can't shoot either. Dwyane Wade can't shoot and he's a 2. It's that Justise can't really shoot AND has mediocre passing/handles/creativity. That's why he's not listed as a 2. He has a long way to go offensively. He should improve, but it's going to be hard. Guy is a slightly undersized 3 basically. Actually has a shorter wingspan than Wade and Harden. Only a quarter inch longer than JR's.

Also as good as Jimmy B was this year, go read the Bulls board. Many were getting on him because he wasn't enough of a playmaker/go to scorer. He's a great 2nd/3rd option but Jimmy is not a guy you can really run your offense through yet, and may never be. Winslow seems like he'd end up the same at best, while Mudiay excels with the ball in his hands. A Mudiay/Rose type is just better/more important than a Winslow/Butler type.

Time to slather up the grill. Phil better not be thinking like some of these fellas.

[DickGrayson]

Don't forget how deft Winslow was when faced with big-big double teams. True big man.

OKAFOR got shut down by Gonzaga Kaminsky Poeltl.... Most of it wasn't even Double coverage... You should remember..... Winslow stepped up and carried Duke to a championship where as Okafor folded.

Shut up.. none of them stopped him one or one or without the complete attention of everyone else on the frontline. How many double teams did Winslow face?

How many 7 footers did Winslow bang with?

Do you want make me bring out the box scores and video clips of Okafor getting shut down?

I didn't think so child.

Winslow banging with 7 footers....i thought he was a 6"6 SG.

I think we need to present the reality on Winslow vs Okafor. Lets breakdown who was the best player on Duke. Jahlil doesn't look good in that match up. Unless you want to ignore March Madness. Which wouldn't surprise me.

[ibraheim718]

It's hilarious because Devin Booker who is 6'6" is labeled everywhere a SG and Winslow who is also 6'6" is labeled a SF..







because he can't shoot. Prototypical SG is 6'6".. sorry. It's always been.

It's not just that he can't shoot either. Dwyane Wade can't shoot and he's a2. It's that Justise can't really shoot AND has mediocre passing/handles/creativity. That's why he's not listed as a 2. He has a long way to go offensively. He should improve, but it's going to be hard. Guy is a slightly undersized 3 basically. Actually has a shorter wingspan than Wade and Harden. Only a quarter inch longer than JR's.

Also as good as Jimmy B was this year, go read the Bulls board. Many were getting on him because he wasn't enough of a playmaker/go to scorer. He's a great 2nd/3rd option but Jimmy is not a guy you can really run your offense through yet, and may never be. Winslow seems like he'd end up the same at best, while Mudiay excels with the ball in his hands. A Mudiay/Rose type is just better/more important than a Winslow/Butler type.

Time to slather up the grill. Hope Phil isn't thinking like some of you fellas.

The shooting is a glaring one though because of the spacing game. Wade could at least move up and be a threat from the mid range whereas Winslow shot a putrid 21% from there.

Found this about wingspan from somewhere else.

As far as Winslow's size, his wingspan would rank him in the bottom third among starting SF.

Here are the 19 starting SF with longer wingspan than Winslow's (6'-10"). I put Tyreke as a SF because that was his intended position before injuries hit Nola. I couldn't find Giannis' wingspan but I'm sure it's somewhere north of 7'-0". It's also possible Danilo Gallinari's wingspan is longer than Winslow's but I can't find the number.

1. Kevin Durant. 7'-4"
2. Rudy Gay. 7'-3"
3. K. Leonard. 7'-3"
4. Trevor Ariza. 7'-2"
5. R. Covington 7'-2"
6. Jeff Green. 7'-1"
7. N. Batum. 7'-1"
8. Otto Porter 7'-1"
9. Luol Deng 7'-0.5"
10. Lebron James 7'-0"
11. Carmelo Anthony 7'-0"
12. MKG 7'-0"
13. T. Evans 6'-11"
14. T. Harris 6'-11"
15. H. Barnes. 6'-11"
16. A. Wiggins 6'-11"
17. P. George 6'-11"
18. Caron Butler 6'-11"
19. Giannis. 7'-0"+

Note that Tyreke is the only one shorter than Winslow. Meaning Winslow is undersized whenever he is matched up with these guys.

These starting SF have equal or shorter wingspan than Winslow:
1. Demare Caroll. 6'-10"
2. Marcus Morris 6'-10"
3. Chandler Parson 6'-9.5"
4. Joe Johnson 6'-9"
5. Matt Barnes 6'-9"
6. Evan Turner 6'-8"
7. Gordon Hayward 6'-8"
8. Terrence Ross 6'-7.25"

The thing is, all but Turner and Ross are taller than Winslow, which I think neutralizes his longer wingspan somewhat. Furthermore, Ross and Turner are natural SG playing out of position.

I am not saying that Winslow can't play SF, he probably can get away with it and his brute strength can make up for it somewhat. My point is that he is on the small side of the SF scale. He could very well be the smallest one in terms of height + wingspan.

For that reason, I'm not as bullish on Winslow as some of y'all. I am fine with drafting him but I'm just not that excited about him.

Now, if he measured out to have a 7'-0" wingspan at the combine, I may change my mind.