2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[NewKnicks]

James Bouknight

that's it. that's the post

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

[HerSports85]

Kofi just declared for the draft. I want him with our 2nd rd pick, even if we have to buy one. Will love to see what Thibs and KP can get out of him

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[knickstape4ever]

James Bouknight

that's it. that's the post

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

he's #19 on ESPN, #23 by Wasserman

it's possible we have a shot at him, but regardless, I'd even trade up for him

[cgf]

We'd have to go on a few more 5-game winning streaks to miss out on all of the kids who have the talent to become really good starters alongside Julius & Rowan. Bouknight would be great, but so would Moody or Ziaire, failing them Kai Jones & Giddey have interesting tools to work with, etc.

So I'm not too stressed about our draft position now that it's clear we don't suck enough to get a top 5 pick. At this point what I'm most curious about is whether we could get two kids from that tier using some combination of our extra picks and Knox/Frank, since I doubt the FO is ready to cut bait on Obi already...ideally leaving the Pistons pick to move from for Butler.

Cause if we could leave this draft with 2 of Bouknight/Moody/Ziaire and still have that pistons pick to try & upgrade to Butler; I'd be grinning from ear to ear...whether we ended up developing all of that young talent to be part of our core, or moving most of them in a future deal that gave RJ & Julius an established third star a la Mitchell or Booker. Especially if we use our cap space on younger FAs who can grow with our team the way Julius has and end up out-performing their contracts...Trent, Horton-Tucker, Schröder, Lonzo, etc.

[WargamesX]

We'd have to go on a few more 5-game winning streaks to miss out on all of the kids who have the talent to become really good starters alongside Julius & Rowan. Bouknight would be great, but so would Moody or Ziaire, failing them Kai Jones & Giddey have interesting tools to work with, etc.

So I'm not too stressed about our draft position now that it's clear we don't suck enough to get a top 5 pick. At this point what I'm most curious about is whether we could get two kids from that tier using some combination of our extra picks and Knox/Frank, since I doubt the FO is ready to cut bait on Obi already...ideally leaving the Pistons pick to move from for Butler.

Cause if we could leave this draft with 2 of Bouknight/Moody/Ziaire and still have that pistons pick to try & upgrade to Butler; I'd be grinning from ear to ear...whether we ended up developing all of that young talent to be part of our core, or moving most of them in a future deal that gave RJ & Julius an established third star a la Mitchell or Booker. Especially if we use our cap space on younger FAs who can grow with our team the way Julius has and end up out-performing their contracts...Trent, Horton-Tucker, Schröder, Lonzo, etc.

Yeah I have given up on getting a nice pick too

Giddey and Mann are still my picks for the Knicks. Maybe they grab a Center early in the second. They have a particular type (Mitch, Noel, Taj, aka a Tyson Chandler Center) that I am pretty sure they could find a decent candidate for late. Those type of centers aren’t as popular as you would think.

If we are going to be elite we’re going to have to rely on Randle and RJ and hope for one of Beal or Lavine.

[Knicksfan1992]

James Bouknight

that's it. that's the post

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

If he slides by doing nothing over the next few months then all of a sudden we have to question his impact? Either you like the guy or don't at this point... There's not really anything he can do to change his perception from a scouting perspective.

[cgf]

James Bouknight

that's it. that's the post

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

If he slides by doing nothing over the next few months then all of a sudden we have to question his impact? Either you like the guy or don't at this point... There's not really anything he can do to change his perception from a scouting perspective.

That's not entirely true. He could still tank his interviews or conversely he could show immense skill growth since the end of the season, in workouts...something I'm looking out for with Keon & Barnes...both of which could still push his stock in either direction.

[Knicksfan1992]

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

If he slides by doing nothing over the next few months then all of a sudden we have to question his impact? Either you like the guy or don't at this point... There's not really anything he can do to change his perception from a scouting perspective.

That's not entirely true. He could still tank his interviews or conversely he could show immense skill growth since the end of the season, in workouts...something I'm looking out for with Keon & Barnes...both of which could still push his stock in either direction.

Sure.... but these are all thing, we the general public, are not really going to get a complete picture of. You'll be going off what certain people in the media want out there. Based on film you either like a guy's game or don't at this point. I don't understand how because if Bouknight falls to specifically where the Knicks pick a person could be out on him

[cgf]

If he slides by doing nothing over the next few months then all of a sudden we have to question his impact? Either you like the guy or don't at this point... There's not really anything he can do to change his perception from a scouting perspective.

That's not entirely true. He could still tank his interviews or conversely he could show immense skill growth since the end of the season, in workouts...something I'm looking out for with Keon & Barnes...both of which could still push his stock in either direction.

Sure.... but these are all thing, we the general public, are not really going to get a complete picture of. You'll be going off what certain people in the media want out there. Based on film you either like a guy's game or don't at this point. I don't understand how because if Bouknight falls to specifically where the Knicks pick a person could be out on him

My bad; I misread your post as saying that his stock wouldn't change from the scouts' perspective...rather than from a scouting perspective.

[jvsimonetti0514]

James Bouknight

that's it. that's the post

Because of all these wins, we're not even going to have a shot at getting Bouknight anymore, unless he slides during the draft. And if he slides, then you have to question what type of player he's really going to be in the NBA, anyway.

If he slides by doing nothing over the next few months then all of a sudden we have to question his impact? Either you like the guy or don't at this point... There's not really anything he can do to change his perception from a scouting perspective.

It’s weird cuz I’m pretty sure he’s said he’s a big Haliburton fan too. The mocks thought he could go as high as 4 and he ended up falling to 12. Stuff like that happens all the time and it’s not always a knock on the player.

[cgf]

We'd have to go on a few more 5-game winning streaks to miss out on all of the kids who have the talent to become really good starters alongside Julius & Rowan. Bouknight would be great, but so would Moody or Ziaire, failing them Kai Jones & Giddey have interesting tools to work with, etc.

So I'm not too stressed about our draft position now that it's clear we don't suck enough to get a top 5 pick. At this point what I'm most curious about is whether we could get two kids from that tier using some combination of our extra picks and Knox/Frank, since I doubt the FO is ready to cut bait on Obi already...ideally leaving the Pistons pick to move from for Butler.

Cause if we could leave this draft with 2 of Bouknight/Moody/Ziaire and still have that pistons pick to try & upgrade to Butler; I'd be grinning from ear to ear...whether we ended up developing all of that young talent to be part of our core, or moving most of them in a future deal that gave RJ & Julius an established third star a la Mitchell or Booker. Especially if we use our cap space on younger FAs who can grow with our team the way Julius has and end up out-performing their contracts...Trent, Horton-Tucker, Schröder, Lonzo, etc.

Yeah I have given up on getting a nice pick too

Giddey and Mann are still my picks for the Knicks. Maybe they grab a Center early in the second. They have a particular type (Mitch, Noel, Taj, aka a Tyson Chandler Center) that I am pretty sure they could find a decent candidate for late. Those type of centers aren’t as popular as you would think.

If we are going to be elite we’re going to have to rely on Randle and RJ and hope for one of Beal or Lavine.

*shrug* If Thibs & Rose are genuinely turning this into a franchise that develops talent instead of squandering it...and this isn't just a one-year fluke...then I'll be happy even without getting Cade, Green, Mobley, Suggs or Kuminga. I'll still be disappointed if we squander the picks we'll have, especially if any of the kids I'm high on are passed up to do so...but I won't be disappointed that our core wasn't bad enough to get us the kind of pick that Detroit or Cleveland is going to "enjoy".

[Knicksfan1992]

That's not entirely true. He could still tank his interviews or conversely he could show immense skill growth since the end of the season, in workouts...something I'm looking out for with Keon & Barnes...both of which could still push his stock in either direction.

Sure.... but these are all thing, we the general public, are not really going to get a complete picture of. You'll be going off what certain people in the media want out there. Based on film you either like a guy's game or don't at this point. I don't understand how because if Bouknight falls to specifically where the Knicks pick a person could be out on him

My bad; I misread your post as saying that his stock wouldn't change from the scouts' perspective...rather than from a scouting perspective.

Right i'm just saying from a scouting film perspective there's not really anything Bouknight could do to change someone's mind on how impactful he can be. Either you like what you've seen or you don't. His actual draft slot shouldn't change that part of it

[jvsimonetti0514]

My hot take is that Tre Mann can do 90% of what Bouknight can do but is a better playmaker and off ball player. The best part about him is you probably don’t need to trade up to get him either.

[knickstape4ever]

Sure.... but these are all thing, we the general public, are not really going to get a complete picture of. You'll be going off what certain people in the media want out there. Based on film you either like a guy's game or don't at this point. I don't understand how because if Bouknight falls to specifically where the Knicks pick a person could be out on him

My bad; I misread your post as saying that his stock wouldn't change from the scouts' perspective...rather than from a scouting perspective.

Right i'm just saying from a scouting film perspective there's not really anything Bouknight could do to change someone's mind on how impactful he can be. Either you like what you've seen or you don't. His actual draft slot shouldn't change that part of it

I don’t know why Bouknights stock has fallen

I think partly because of the disappointing tourney game/recency bias, part age, and part the media overthinking (IMO at least) his perceived lack of playmaking

I think he’s got great potential and if we could land him, I’d be thrilled. I’d even trade up for him, that’s how much I like his potential as a 3 level scorer

Hoping we can get him. Outside of the top 5, he’s definitely my favorite player

[knickstape4ever]

My hot take is that Tre Mann can do 90% of what Bouknight can do but is a better playmaker and off ball players

I like Mann a ton, but still think Bouknight is better. Much better athlete, elite hesitation move, and I like his activity: after a miss, he’s extremely active on the offensive boards

I’d be happy taking Mann, but my first choice is Bouknight

It may be feasible to get both. Right now, according to most analysts, both are in the 15-20 range

[jvsimonetti0514]

My hot take is that Tre Mann can do 90% of what Bouknight can do but is a better playmaker and off ball players

I like Mann a ton, but still think Bouknight is better. Much better athlete, elite hesitation move, and I like his activity: after a miss, he’s extremely active on the offensive boards

I’d be happy taking Mann, but my first choice is Bouknight

It may be feasible to get both. Right now, according to most analysts, both are in the 15-20 range

I’m actually pretty skeptical about Bouknight’s dramatic fall in the mocks and big boards. You gotta remember that most of these mocks, especially the DX one aren’t considering team needs just yet. I still thing he’ll end up in the late lottery when it’s all said and done. He’s a 3 level scorer and a plus nba athlete that’s really tough to pass up for the Franz Wagner’s of the world.

I think the big reason for his drop is cuz he’s got a negative assist to turnover ratio and I doubt he’s a good playmaker but some of that has to be on his teammates being pretty mediocre. Like didn’t UConn have a losing record without him? I’m def more confident in developing him as a playmaker than I am of building a scorer out Barnes from scratch.

[WargamesX]

We'd have to go on a few more 5-game winning streaks to miss out on all of the kids who have the talent to become really good starters alongside Julius & Rowan. Bouknight would be great, but so would Moody or Ziaire, failing them Kai Jones & Giddey have interesting tools to work with, etc.

So I'm not too stressed about our draft position now that it's clear we don't suck enough to get a top 5 pick. At this point what I'm most curious about is whether we could get two kids from that tier using some combination of our extra picks and Knox/Frank, since I doubt the FO is ready to cut bait on Obi already...ideally leaving the Pistons pick to move from for Butler.

Cause if we could leave this draft with 2 of Bouknight/Moody/Ziaire and still have that pistons pick to try & upgrade to Butler; I'd be grinning from ear to ear...whether we ended up developing all of that young talent to be part of our core, or moving most of them in a future deal that gave RJ & Julius an established third star a la Mitchell or Booker. Especially if we use our cap space on younger FAs who can grow with our team the way Julius has and end up out-performing their contracts...Trent, Horton-Tucker, Schröder, Lonzo, etc.

Yeah I have given up on getting a nice pick too

Giddey and Mann are still my picks for the Knicks. Maybe they grab a Center early in the second. They have a particular type (Mitch, Noel, Taj, aka a Tyson Chandler Center) that I am pretty sure they could find a decent candidate for late. Those type of centers aren’t as popular as you would think.

If we are going to be elite we’re going to have to rely on Randle and RJ and hope for one of Beal or Lavine.

*shrug* If Thibs & Rose are genuinely turning this into a franchise that develops talent instead of squandering it...and this isn't just a one-year fluke...then I'll be happy even without getting Cade, Green, Mobley, Suggs or Kuminga. I'll still be disappointed if we squander the picks we'll have, especially if any of the kids I'm high on are passed up to do so...but I won't be disappointed that our core wasn't bad enough to get us the kind of pick that Detroit or Cleveland is going to "enjoy".

I don’t know some of the kids this year look like legit stars. We’ll see what the Knicks do, but yeah the kids are really, really good this year.

[cgf]

Yeah I have given up on getting a nice pick too

Giddey and Mann are still my picks for the Knicks. Maybe they grab a Center early in the second. They have a particular type (Mitch, Noel, Taj, aka a Tyson Chandler Center) that I am pretty sure they could find a decent candidate for late. Those type of centers aren’t as popular as you would think.

If we are going to be elite we’re going to have to rely on Randle and RJ and hope for one of Beal or Lavine.

*shrug* If Thibs & Rose are genuinely turning this into a franchise that develops talent instead of squandering it...and this isn't just a one-year fluke...then I'll be happy even without getting Cade, Green, Mobley, Suggs or Kuminga. I'll still be disappointed if we squander the picks we'll have, especially if any of the kids I'm high on are passed up to do so...but I won't be disappointed that our core wasn't bad enough to get us the kind of pick that Detroit or Cleveland is going to "enjoy".

I don’t know some of the kids this year look like legit stars. We’ll see what the Knicks do, but yeah the kids are really, really good this year.

Oh I love this class and would've been thrilled with any of the top 5 if things had gone differently, I am by no means downplaying just how good those kids are going to be in their primes...but short of the truly generational prospects, it's almost impossible for any single player to change the course of a franchise as dramatically as getting quality management & coaching. Without those two you'll constantly be squandering the talent you do get while making it harder for yourself to attract talent.

...and it's not like there aren't avenues to genuine contention if Julius, RJ & co. can build on this and the FO can patiently continue building up our asset pool until the right star becomes available. It may never line up for us, but we can put ourselves in a strong position to capitalize on our Kawhi-to-Toronto or Jimmy-to-Miami move if it does become available to us...while enjoying a legit playoff team, that has plenty of room for further internal growth given that Julius is the only part of our long-term core who can rent a car and that we have a bunch of extra picks coming up in some drafts with talent to be found outside of the very top.

[knickstape4ever]

My hot take is that Tre Mann can do 90% of what Bouknight can do but is a better playmaker and off ball players

I like Mann a ton, but still think Bouknight is better. Much better athlete, elite hesitation move, and I like his activity: after a miss, he’s extremely active on the offensive boards

I’d be happy taking Mann, but my first choice is Bouknight

It may be feasible to get both. Right now, according to most analysts, both are in the 15-20 range

I’m actually pretty skeptical about Bouknight’s dramatic fall in the mocks and big boards. You gotta remember that most of these mocks, especially the DX one aren’t considering team needs just yet. I still thing he’ll end up in the late lottery when it’s all said and done. He’s a 3 level scorer and a plus nba athlete that’s really tough to pass up for the Franz Wagner’s of the world.

I think the big reason for his drop is cuz he’s got a negative assist to turnover ratio and I doubt he’s a good playmaker but some of that has to be on his teammates being pretty mediocre. Like didn’t UConn have a losing record without him? I’m def more confident in developing him as a playmaker than I am of building a scorer out Barnes from scratch.

His fall on those boards seemed strange to me as well, but I’m hoping it’s true. He had shot up some boards after the Creighton game and when he came back from injury.

Maybe his fall is due to having 3 subpar performances to end the season and there’s a recency bias. Personally, I don’t have many concerns with his game. I have him as the #6 player in this draft

[newyorker4ever]

What's funny is seeing other people trying to say that (for some reason), this draft isn't stacked anymore. There's literally no reason to come up with that theory, but people are putting it out there on here.

All of the top 5 picks this year would be the number 1 pick last year. It's a great draft, and all evaluators still say it's one of the best in awhile, and I agree. There are a lot of other players outside of the top 5 that have a lot of potential. Star potential.

And before someone says "who cares what evaluators/scouts think" (which is actually pretty stupid to say, considering they literally get paid to evaluate players), I watched most of these kids this past year. I watched a ton of college bball. This draft is legit.

Maybe the people on here saying that are just trying to make themselves feel a little better about how the Knicks are gonna miss out on having a chance at getting a player that would of been huge for this Knicks rebuild, (Jalen Suggs) and the Knicks are absolutely still rebuilding.

I'll be very happy that the Knicks are finally in the playoffs again and love watching them win every game they've won so far, but will not change my stance about how being in the top of this draft was the better position to be in over making the playoffs. Hopefully we find a way to hit a grand slam in the draft still, or at least a home run.......i'll take a triple if i have to..

I think you're probably right. This board is famous for that. A lot of people on here defend the front office at all costs, no matter what kind of mistakes they make, and no matter which FO is running the team at that time. I don't get it.

I guess people are so conditioned by all the losing, that they are not able to think rationally. It's 'Go Knicks Go' no matter what.

I'm still taking the stance of playing all the kids big minutes all year (with a mix of the vets to complement), and get in the top 5 of this draft. We will be regretting this for years to come, as teams like the TWolves get Suggs or Cade, and both of them become perennial All-Stars. That should have been our goal from day 1.

All this winning is great, and it's nice seeing the team gel, but again we're doing it with one year vets in all the supporting cast roles. It's Randle, RJ and a bunch of 1 year rentals. We could still have developed Randle and RJ, at the same time did what was needed to be done to stay near the bottom.

What's better? Getting in the playoffs this year, or landing a potential perennial All-Star? I'll take adding our third good-great player and going for it NEXT YEAR.

But that boat has sailed. We're now going to have 2 firsts, but they're going to be in the 15-23 range, which most likely gets us two role players at best.

Playoffs + 2 role player draft picks

OR

No playoffs + Suggs/Cade/Green/Mobley

I'm taking the second option 10 out of 10 times.

Oh well. It is what it is at this point. I'll keep rooting for the W's now since the draft pick slot doesn't really matter anymore.

I'm still hoping the front office can pull something big off with at least one of the picks or trading up with them or other picks and getting a starting level player. We could get lucky and find us a beast in the mid to late 1st with one of them as well. Most likely a couple of role players but gems are found everywhere in drafts, not a lot of times but sometimes.