Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

Blue Ninja · Post #19261 » by **Blue Ninja** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:36 pm

djphan wrote:he shot more and in the second half he shot with much greater efficiency than MKG.... that proves that he's a much better scorer than him... A/TO ratio is better and winslow even avg'ed more steals....and he has better 3pt fg%

this is not even a question... he has the edge in all the important categories...

Winslow shot about the same (slightly less) threes in the second half as compared to the first. The big difference was he became a stretch 4 and he could use his great first step to attack the basket against PFs. That's not going to happen in the NBA. His FG% was lower than MKGs. MKG also didn't have a post presence like Okafor to suck in the defense and give him lanes.

A/TO ratio is pretty damn close 1.1 for Winslow, .9 for MKG. That's completely negligible. Yeah he shot from one spot on the floor very well. I wouldn't say that makes up MKGs better physical attributes, better handle, better post up ability, better transition offense and better rate at getting to the free throw line/making free throws.

djphan · Post #19262 » by **djphan** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:40 pm

j4remi wrote:Every player at 4 is going to be a roll of the dice. Winslow has offensive question marks just about everywhere, and I like the kid. The reality is there are no sure things at 4 and out of the options, it's widely recognized that 4 (5 if you count Porzingas who is really starting to catch on with analysts) of those guys have superstar potential. You can't run from that and play it safe after the season this team just had. When the workouts start and we hear more about these guys performing under the microscope, maybe things will change and Justise will make his case...but for now, if my worst case scenario is Elfrid Payton and best case scenario is prime Deron Williams or Stephon Marbury with a better attitude. I'm willing to take that risk, hell Payton looked pretty good the last 20-25 games of the season anyway.

it's not really about playing it safe.... i'm saying that less information does not mean greater upside.... everyone last year thought exum was the next generation prototype pg... the next magic johnson... what are we comparing mudiay to this year? i think i saw someone throw dwyane wade's name around...

drj · Post #19263 » by **drj** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:42 pm

GONYK wrote:Because you don't lose as many games as we did to end up with Tyson Chandler...again. That's a role player.

He's a consolation prize. We're in the headliner part of the draft where potential stars are.

Ok I get that but I don't think Winslow is a superstar either, and I have serious doubts about Mudiay and the Euros. A defensive anchor is a crucial and hard-to-find ingredient...

Just on the comparison with Chandler: WCS becomes Chandler IF WCS never develops a jumper, and develops a bad attitude to boot. And Chandler is still a defensive anchor who won a ring next to Dirk and earned a huge payday. WCS has the potential to become Chandler-on-d PLUS jumper and focus... That would be a great outcome for a #4 pick IMO.

Post #19264 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:44 pm

kej718 wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxPDMXwR3Y[/youtube]
I can see why the Knicks have given him a look, but I think they still go for a PG.

kid looks like a winner

Post #19265 » by **j4remi** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:44 pm

djphan wrote:
j4remi wrote:Every player at 4 is going to be a roll of the dice. Winslow has offensive question marks just about everywhere, and I like the kid. The reality is there are no sure things at 4 and out of the options, it's widely recognized that 4 (5 if you count Porzingas who is really starting to catch on with analysts) of those guys have superstar potential. You can't run from that and play it safe after the season this team just had. When the workouts start and we hear more about these guys performing under the microscope, maybe things will change and Justise will make his case...but for now, if my worst case scenario is Elfrid Payton and best case scenario is prime Deron Williams or Stephon Marbury with a better attitude. I'm willing to take that risk, hell Payton looked pretty good the last 20-25 games of the season anyway.

it's not really about playing it safe.... i'm saying that less information does not mean greater upside.... everyone last year thought exum was the next generation prototype pg... the next magic johnson... what are we comparing mudiay to this year? i think i saw someone throw dwyane wade's name around...

Do you really think that every scout in the NBA is just guessing based on limited info? This isn't just some fringe opinion, it's a mass consensus. Exum is 19 friggin' years old why do you keep comparing Mudiay to players that haven't even had a full year to develop their games?

djphan · Post #19266 » by **djphan** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:47 pm

Blue Ninja wrote:Winslow shot about the same (slightly less) threes in the second half as compared to the first. The big difference was he became a stretch 4 and he could use his great first step to attack the basket against PFs. That's not going to happen in the NBA. His FG% was lower than MKGs. MKG also didn't have a post presence like Okafor to suck in the defense and give him lanes.

A/TO ratio is pretty damn close 1.1 for Winslow, .9 for MKG. That's completely negligible. Yeah he shot from one spot on the floor very well. I wouldn't say that makes up MKGs better physical attributes, better handle, better post up ability, better transition offense and better rate at getting to the free throw line/making free throws.

the 2nd half numbers i posted were a good 8-10 games BEFORE he switched to pf....

and don't be dishonest with numbers... a/to for winslow was 1.16 and mkg's was 0.85 ...

and mkg only had anthony davis and terrence jones on his team... that's no jahlil okafor that's for sure...

DaGawd · Post #19267 » by **DaGawd** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:48 pm

Gimme Russell or Mudiay IDGAF!

djphan · Post #19268 » by **djphan** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:52 pm

j4remi wrote:
Do you really think that every scout in the NBA is just guessing based on limited info? This isn't just some fringe opinion, it's a mass consensus. Exum is 19 friggin' years old why do you keep comparing Mudiay to players that haven't even had a full year to develop their games?

i like to form opinions based on my own observations... i'm not just going to go along with the herd unless there's a good reason to...

and i compare mudiay to exum not in their games... but with their hype given their similar situations before the draft.... and what's resulted from exum one year in the league.... it's been dissapointing wouldn't you say? how much of what the mass consensus about him would you say was true?

NYKnicksTAPE · Post #19269 » by **NYKnicksTAPE** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:56 pm

beasonu wrote:Jesus.

Every Mock lately released has Mudiay going 3. FML

Lol this sh*t is crazy. I'm ready to bring Mudiay to the squad and then we end up with Russell instead after I wanted Russell all along throughout the season

DaGawd · Post #19270 » by **DaGawd** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:56 pm

djphan wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Do you really think that every scout in the NBA is just guessing based on limited info? This isn't just some fringe opinion, it's a mass consensus. Exum is 19 friggin' years old why do you keep comparing Mudiay to players that haven't even had a full year to develop their games?

i like to form opinions based on my own observations... i'm not just going to go along with the herd unless there's a good reason to...

and i compare mudiay to exum not in their games... but with their hype given their similar situations before the draft.... and what's resulted from exum one year in the league.... it's been dissapointing wouldn't you say? how much of what the mass consensus about him would you say was true?

Only it's not quite the same since we've actually seen Mudiay against american players before and he's excel against them..

Blue Ninja · Post #19271 » by **Blue Ninja** » Mon May 25, 2015 5:56 pm

djphan wrote:the 2nd half numbers i posted were a good 8-10 games BEFORE he switched to pf....

and don't be dishonest with numbers... a/to for winslow was 1.16 and mkg's was 0.85 ...

and mkg only had anthony davis and terrence jones on his team... that's no jahlil okafor that's for sure...

So much of it depends on matchups, maybe he got opposed against slower matchups. Not going to look into it much further, but even if it's 8 games before the move, an 8 game sample isn't a big one. You can look into the matchups if you want.

Still negligible. I did the math in my head just by looking at stats, but doing the numbers you get a 1.15 for winslow to .86 for mkg. I guess you were being dishonest too? :lol:

they're good college offensive players bro, but they don't suck in the defense the way Okafor did.

Post #19272 » by **GONYK** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:06 pm

drj wrote:
GONYK wrote:Because you don't lose as many games as we did to end up with Tyson Chandler...again. That's a role player.

He's a consolation prize. We're in the headliner part of the draft where potential stars are.

Ok I get that but I don't think Winslow is a superstar either, and I have serious doubts about Mudiay and the Euros. A defensive anchor is a crucial and hard-to-find ingredient...

Just on the comparison with Chandler: WCS becomes Chandler IF WCS never develops a jumper, and develops a bad attitude to boot. And Chandler is still a defensive anchor who won a ring next to Dirk and earned a huge payday. WCS has the potential to become Chandler-on-d PLUS jumper and focus... That would be a great outcome for a #4 pick IMO.

I don't even consider Winslow in the top 4.

I would rather take the chance on a top flight PG than a finished product big man. If we were in the 5-8 range, that's where I start considering WCS

Besart19 · Post #19273 » by **Besart19** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:08 pm

One thing is for sure... the league won't help the Knicks get back to relevancy!!

Phil needs a miracle to turn this mess around... from 17 to 57 wins its almost impossible, unless we strike gold and stars would come here for less money... both questionable, not to say improbable!!

Today is all about money... The Bulls were under the tax and they won 6 titles with Jordan and Pippen having seasons where they got only 3M of salary... nowdays you have guys like Stat and Co who get 20M per!!

We also had Patrick Ewing, Latrell Sprewell, Larry Johnson, Allan Houston and Marcus Camby all in one roster...

Lately, this is getting almost impossible to get it done... once it was a actual sport, now it's a bussiness!! #DolceVita

islanders11040 · Post #19274 » by **islanders11040** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:12 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:
kej718 wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxPDMXwR3Y[/youtube]
I can see why the Knicks have given him a look, but I think they still go for a PG.

kid looks like a winner

I think He has great Leader potential which Knicks have non of. Seems mature beyond his years. A good fit for New York. Would be happy with him or Mudiay. Would LOVE to find a trade with the Kings and get him at #6.

NBA Fan 1234 · Post #19275 » by **NBA Fan 1234** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:15 pm

islanders11040 wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:
kej718 wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxPDMXwR3Y[/youtube]
I can see why the Knicks have given him a look, but I think they still go for a PG.

kid looks like a winner

I think He has great Leader potential which Knicks have non of. Seems mature beyond his years. A good fit for New York

Not with the 4th pick.

DaGawd · Post #19276 » by **DaGawd** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:15 pm

Winslow would intrigue me if we didn't already have like 5 SFs/SGs. Really hope we don't draft him.

Post #19277 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:16 pm

islanders11040 wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:
kej718 wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxPDMXwR3Y[/youtube]
I can see why the Knicks have given him a look, but I think they still go for a PG.

kid looks like a winner

I think He has great Leader potential which Knicks have non of. Seems mature beyond his years. A good fit for New York

i don't take him at #4, but if the knicks do, i trust that they felt he was the right man for the job.

i like what he had to say about his own improvement. he realizes that he needs to work on the jumper and getting to the basket on closeouts. with his mentality, i am confident he will get it together. he's only 19. he's going to middleton/butler out in the league. and he's already so beast on defense and the glass. new york would love him from afar if another team drafted him... then act like our FO was incompetent because we took russell or mudiay.

i've had the tour.

islanders11040 · Post #19278 » by **islanders11040** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:16 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:
kid looks like a winner

I think He has great Leader potential which Knicks have non of. Seems mature beyond his years. A good fit for New York

Not with the 4th pick.

Maybe. I added a line to my previous post. I wouldnt be devastated with him at 4.

Post #19279 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:17 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:
islanders11040 wrote:
Ron Mexico wrote:
kid looks like a winner

I think He has great Leader potential which Knicks have non of. Seems mature beyond his years. A good fit for New York

Not with the 4th pick.

just too early in a draft that's too deep. another year, no problem. i got 5 players ahead of him with the much debated top 4 and porzingis.

Fat · Post #19280 » by **Fat** » Mon May 25, 2015 6:17 pm

drj wrote:Question: why is WCS not getting more love? He has elite quickness and defensive skills. On the defensive side of the ball I'd say he's arguably the best player in the whole draft, and clearly defensive BPA (I don't believe in drafting for need but also: we need an NBA ready defensive big pretty desperately. WCS can basically step in and anchor our defense from day one.)

I understand that people worry whether WCS will be a liability in half-court offense, but every prospect has flaws and needs to learn some things. WCS only needs to learn how to hit the fifteen footer reliably and he will be able to contribute on o. His FT% has improved noticeably through college (37.2%, 48.2%, 61.7%) which shows work ethic and some ability, and he has occasionally flashed the fifteen jumper with decent form in games (you can see this in his DX scouting vid). So it seems to me that there is a good basis to think that WCS can develop the one last skill he needs.

Imagine WCS with a 15 foot jumper, anchoring the d, while still contributing on o. Think Camby, or what Tyson could have been had he developed a jumper. Why aren't we lining up for this??

Simple Mudiay is younger, BPA, and Has the more upside.