Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[Jeff Van Gully]

Gimme Russell or Mudiay IDGAF!

you're straight up torn now, aren't you?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Willie Trill Cauley-Stein is more McGee than Camby/Tyson.

[drj]

I don't even consider Winslow in the top 4.

I would rather take the chance on a top flight PG than a finished product big man. If we were in the 5-8 range, that's where I start considering WCS

Assuming Towns-Okafor-Russell are off the board, I take it you prefer Mudiay? I can definitely see the value in that choice as far as superstar potential, and I haven't honestly seen enough of Mudiay to form a strong opinion (-I don't really know how to rate the strength of competition he faced in the CBA). I won't bash Mudiay.

But the part that puzzles me is why people don't think of WCS as having outstanding potential too. You use the phrase "finished product big man" but he is only, what, 2 years older than Mudiay? We all know bigs take the longest to develop. WCS has elite athleticism-size, and has already developed a foundation of very strong defensive skills. His FT% has improved dramatically each year, and he may even be ready to develop a jumper. I'm still puzzled why people don't see great promise here...

[GONYK]

I don't even consider Winslow in the top 4.

I would rather take the chance on a top flight PG than a finished product big man. If we were in the 5-8 range, that's where I start considering WCS

Assuming Towns-Okafor-Russell are off the board, I take it you prefer Mudiay? I can definitely see the value in that choice as far as superstar potential, and I haven't honestly seen enough of Mudiay to form a strong opinion (-I don't really know how to rate the strength of competition he faced in the CBA). I won't bash Mudiay.

But the part that puzzles me is why people don't think of WCS as having outstanding potential too. You use the phrase "finished product big man" but he is only, what, 2 years older than Mudiay? We all know bigs take the longest to develop. WCS has elite athleticism-size, and has already developed a foundation of very strong defensive skills. His FT% has improved dramatically each year, and he may even be ready to develop a jumper. I'm still puzzled why people don't see great promise here...

Mainly because Tyson Chandler with a jumper is still not a franchise altering player. If Mudiay or Russel develops, their ceiling and potential impact is higher than that.

Also taking age into account (WCS will be 22 before the season starts) there is just more development runway there for Mudiay or Russell.

[Thugger HBC]

I don't even consider Winslow in the top 4.

I would rather take the chance on a top flight PG than a finished product big man. If we were in the 5-8 range, that's where I start considering WCS

Assuming Towns-Okafor-Russell are off the board, I take it you prefer Mudiay? I can definitely see the value in that choice as far as superstar potential, and I haven't honestly seen enough of Mudiay to form a strong opinion (-I don't really know how to rate the strength of competition he faced in the CBA). I won't bash Mudiay.

But the part that puzzles me is why people don't think of WCS as having outstanding potential too. You use the phrase "finished product big man" but he is only, what, 2 years older than Mudiay? We all know bigs take the longest to develop. WCS has elite athleticism-size, and has already developed a foundation of very strong defensive skills. His FT% has improved dramatically each year, and he may even be ready to develop a jumper. I'm still puzzled why people don't see great promise here...

WCS doesnt have the "star potential" the others do. I dont know if he's a finished product, he isnt high on my draft board either. but I do think he'll be a good player for awhile in the nBA. Couldnt use the #4 pick on him though.

[drj]

Willie Trill Cauley-Stein is more McGee than Camby/Tyson.

Hmmm I don't get that comparison. McGee has off-the-charts physical tools (longer than WCS) but is seriously lacking in BBIQ and fundamentals. WCS on the other hand seems to me to have very strong defensive awareness and already knows how to defend pick&roll etc.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Willie Trill Cauley-Stein is more McGee than Camby/Tyson.

Hmmm I don't get that comparison. McGee has off-the-charts physical tools (longer than WCS) but is seriously lacking in BBIQ and fundamentals. WCS on the other hand seems to me to have very strong defensive awareness and already knows how to defend pick&roll etc.

Personality wise he's definitely more McGee than either Camby or Tyson. In addition, he relies more on his athleticism than actual positioning on defense. On top of that, he has no offensive game to speak of and stone hands.

He's got incredible foot speed and is a great athlete, but that's all I see with him -- an athlete.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Question: why is WCS not getting more love? He has elite quickness and defensive skills. On the defensive side of the ball I'd say he's arguably the best player in the whole draft, and clearly defensive BPA (I don't believe in drafting for need but also: we need an NBA ready defensive big pretty desperately. WCS can basically step in and anchor our defense from day one.)

I understand that people worry whether WCS will be a liability in half-court offense, but every prospect has flaws and needs to learn some things. WCS only needs to learn how to hit the fifteen footer reliably and he will be able to contribute on o. His FT% has improved noticeably through college (37.2%, 48.2%, 61.7%) which shows work ethic and some ability, and he has occasionally flashed the fifteen jumper with decent form in games (you can see this in his DX scouting vid). So it seems to me that there is a good basis to think that WCS can develop the one last skill he needs.

Imagine WCS with a 15 foot jumper, anchoring the d, while still contributing on o. Think Camby, or what Tyson could have been had he developed a jumper. Why aren't we lining up for this??

His rebounding rate is pretty mediocre. And he was at his best when he was defending the perimeter. I'm just not sure he is the rebounding/paint protecting big people are thinking of. Then throw in his very poor offensive game, and that he's a junior and there are some red flags.

I mean if we are drafting in the 7 to 10 range id def consider him. I think he has some risk and not enough reward for the top 5 though. Imo, he'll probably be a 20 to 25 minute a game defensive specialist but don't really see him as a 30+ min player

[nykballa2k4]

I know there are a lot of repetitive posts out here, tons of draft stuff, but please grant me a thread for no other reason then to alay my fears...

So obviously, we have #4, and there is a pretty clear consensus top 5 picks - Towns, Okafor, Russel, Mudiay and Winslow -- in that order.

My list, however, has been changing of late to Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Okafor and Winslow -- and recently I have heard a good argument to move Winslow up a notch or two.

So here is the break-down I see on draft day:

Pick 1 Minni.
I still see Towns position as the best fit for the wolves as well as the fact that he is the most versatile player and has tremendous upside as a 2-way big man. If nothing else he will rebound.

Pick 2 Lakers.
Yes all the reports indicate Okafor is the pick here, but with Kobe retiring soon, there is reason to believe in 2 scenarios: Either they take a player Kobe wants to groom/play with or they trade down for a win-now piece AND pick a guy in the top 10 who is a good fit. Lets say Magic give them Vucevic and #5...
This impacts us because of the obvious chain reaction. If Okafor is selected, its back to status quo. If Lakers pick Kobes choice... Then I think they take Russell who will help Kobe by providing spacing and a good passer. Kobe might try the mentor role and Lakers can then sign a center in the off-season with hopes of Gasol, but also looking at Kufos, Lopez's, Monroe (same as us). Really not taking a step back in terms of 2015 production(Monroe will probably have a better 2015/16 than Okafor). The cap balloons and the Lakers are in position to pick up Durant.
So lets say Russell goes here....

Pick 3 Sixers
They have a pretty open roster situation. The only known i that Embiid will be the center.
Without Russell on the board, point guard is likely their biggest need and Mudiay has all the raw abilities of a superstar. I fear this is the pick.

Pick 4 Knicks
Here is why I am nervous... If Okafor falls to 4, I think Phil takes him because of his fit for the triangle. Winslow may be the better prospect in terms of overall abilities. Perhaps the best move is to trade the Okafor-pick for another pick and a player that we want (aforementioned Magic deal?). Obviously the pressure on NY if Okafor falls to 4 (effectively 1 pick because Sixers shouldn't want a center when there is a comparable prospect at a position of need). If Okafor becomes a stud, it would obviously be an epic failure on our part passing up on a "top 2 prospect that fell in our laps" on the other hand, if he busts we are going to have the "should have known better" guys talking to us.
If we take Winslow over Okafor, then we have:
C-Melo-Winslow-Hardaway-Calderon and Galloway on the roster with cap space. We would basically NEED one of Robin Lopez, Kosta Koufos, Omer Asik, DeAndre Jordan to complete our 5 for us to have a chance. If we take Okafor - Yes we have a center, but our roster has 5 guys set in stone and only one of them - a former D-leaguer - is known for defense (okay we have Cleanthony and Thanos too, but high impact wise...)

I guess I am worried that I am falling in love too quickly and I will get burned. What do you guys think?

[Michael_Scott]

If Okafor falls to four you thank the holy lord, take him, and move on.

[denterprise]

If Okafor falls to four you thank the holy lord, take him, and move on.

Amen Brother!

[N Y K]

Just want to add that I appreciate what Porzingis can do (shooting, quickness, nice coming off screens, long and annoys people driving to the basket), but don't know that he would be worth it at 4. He will get CHEWED up based on his size and is a bit lost/lazy defensively. As is, he just feels to easy to exploit. And if he were to get bigger and heavier with muscle, I wonder what that will do to his quickness.

I'll be interested to see how his game translates to the NBA for sure. Feels like some nice upside, but definitely more of a dice roll than Mudiay or Winslow or even Hezonja feel right now.

[King of Canada]

No way Okafor falls to 4. Rebuilding with a big > rebuilding with a guard.

Edited to add - who knows though if Mudiay or Russell blow everybody away in workouts. Crazier stuff has happened.

[GONYK]

Under no circumstances do you take Winslow over Okafor

[AlphakirA]

I don't see a scenario where the Knicks pass up Okafor unless Towns gets hurt and drops to 4.


You have the exact thought process as I do with the Lakers. I think in Russell they are going to see CP3 that they missed out on and allowing Kobe to mold him will be too tempting. Building around two big men in Randle and Okafor would be a bit odd.

[E-Balla]

Under no circumstances do you take Winslow over Okafor

Why not? I mean what does this Coach K character know anyway?

[islanders11040]

76ers also seem to be the type of team that would say "F Fit. BPA" since they dont really wanna win. Just wants to accumulate assets. I think they still take Okafor at 3.

[DowNY]

You do not draft a player that put the word "Trill" in his name.

[Dave4585]

Seriosuly u would pass on Okafor and be ok with a starting lineup with Calderon and Hardaway in the back court and a center who prob won't be gasol or LMA. That is the worst scenario that can about happen. It would be (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to draft a player that out star player plays, and yes I know Melo can play 4 as well

[DaGawd]

Gimme Russell or Mudiay IDGAF!

you're straight up torn now, aren't you?

Yeah lol... The draft can't come fast enough!