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Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19341 » by TrueWarrior » Tue May 26, 2015 3:54 am

DickGrayson wrote:
...

I think I’m on the other side of the “top pick” debate, though. Part of this selfish. I don’t want to see Winslow shackled with the expectations that come with going that high. He would be more fun as a secondary star than a franchise savior (who can’t totally dribble yet).

No matter how great he’s looked over the past few weeks, the NBA will be a tough adjustment. He will still have an athletic advantage over almost everyone, but it won’t be as dramatic as it’s been the past few weeks. Even if he eventually settles into the Kawhi role, he won’t be overpowering teams by himself. There’s an outside chance that he improves every piece of his offense and keeps his outer-space athleticism — in other words, he turns into Russell Westbrook as a small forward — but predicting a Westbrook trajectory is as ridiculous as calling someone the next Jordan.

The real question is what you want from a top-three pick. Do you play it safe and go with a guy who could definitely be the second- or third-best player on a title team? Or do you gamble and hope for someone who could carry a team one day? Winslow should be awesome in the NBA, but fitting that second criterion is probably a stretch.

His handle is still pretty balky, and his scoring in the half court never looks completely natural. Some of that will get better, but will it ever add up to a player who’s taking over the fourth quarter of playoff games? The best scorers are born, not developed. That’s why I would still take someone like D’Angelo Russell before Winslow. The NBA may value defense now more than ever, but drafting for defense might not be the smartest play. Offense will always be more valuable. You can find a Trevor Ariza or Corey Brewer every single year. Finding James Harden happens once a decade.


So you post an article saying everything we've been saying.
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19342 » by DickGrayson » Tue May 26, 2015 3:57 am

TrueWarrior wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:
...

I think I’m on the other side of the “top pick” debate, though. Part of this selfish. I don’t want to see Winslow shackled with the expectations that come with going that high. He would be more fun as a secondary star than a franchise savior (who can’t totally dribble yet).

No matter how great he’s looked over the past few weeks, the NBA will be a tough adjustment. He will still have an athletic advantage over almost everyone, but it won’t be as dramatic as it’s been the past few weeks. Even if he eventually settles into the Kawhi role, he won’t be overpowering teams by himself. There’s an outside chance that he improves every piece of his offense and keeps his outer-space athleticism — in other words, he turns into Russell Westbrook as a small forward — but predicting a Westbrook trajectory is as ridiculous as calling someone the next Jordan.

The real question is what you want from a top-three pick. Do you play it safe and go with a guy who could definitely be the second- or third-best player on a title team? Or do you gamble and hope for someone who could carry a team one day? Winslow should be awesome in the NBA, but fitting that second criterion is probably a stretch.

His handle is still pretty balky, and his scoring in the half court never looks completely natural. Some of that will get better, but will it ever add up to a player who’s taking over the fourth quarter of playoff games? The best scorers are born, not developed. That’s why I would still take someone like D’Angelo Russell before Winslow. The NBA may value defense now more than ever, but drafting for defense might not be the smartest play. Offense will always be more valuable. You can find a Trevor Ariza or Corey Brewer every single year. Finding James Harden happens once a decade.


So you post an article saying everything we've been saying.



The article presented two perspectives of the topic.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19343 » by El Poochio » Tue May 26, 2015 3:58 am

damedash09 wrote:Mario at 4, I was just saying pick this guy. Dude looks like a potential offensive monster. I'm not sure about his defense, but his game is smooth


His defense is good too, with potential to get better due to his size, athleticism and effort. Hezonja is a baller. But i cant realistically see our management drafting him, and would like Russell over Super Mario anyway.
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19344 » by TrueWarrior » Tue May 26, 2015 4:20 am

DickGrayson wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:


So you post an article saying everything we've been saying.



The article presented two perspectives of the topic.


The perspective I quoted is the one you haven't been listening to :lol:. So which is it? That's word for word what I posted yesterday.

I'm not going to go through the whole spiel again on Russell/Mudiay vs Winslow, but the last 2 paragraphs up there sums it up.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19345 » by whocares1 » Tue May 26, 2015 4:35 am

I'm willing to bet that if D'angelo Russel is already selected by one of the top 3 teams (as well as Okafor) that the Knicks will draft Justice Winslow with the 4th pick. I will be very surprised if it's anyone else.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19346 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 4:36 am

DowNY wrote:
TheBigBoss wrote:
DowNY wrote: :lol: :lol:


What is funny about that? Hezonja is easily one of, if not the most athletic guy in this draft, not to mention he is 6'8 and can shoot with good handles. All it comes down to is what is between the ears, that is the difference between Kobe and JR Smith, Phil has degrees in psychology and has been around MJ, Kobe, and JR Smith so he knows the difference. So if he drafts him with our pick then that means he believes that he has the mental makeup to be a star.

I'm laughing because everybody keeps changing who they want every few days. This process is hilarious, yet sad.


What does not change is my want for our pick to be the best in this draft class whoever that may be.
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19347 » by DickGrayson » Tue May 26, 2015 4:36 am

TrueWarrior wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
So you post an article saying everything we've been saying.



The article presented two perspectives of the topic.


The perspective I quoted is the one you haven't been listening to :lol:. So which is it? That's word for word what I posted yesterday.

I'm not going to go through the whole spiel again on Russell/Mudiay vs Winslow, but the last 2 paragraphs up there sums it up.



No. There's a clear counter argument in the article. It's far from one sided.
I'm not ranking Mudiay/Okafor/Russell over Winslow from all the research I've gathered. Your argument wasn't strong, nor provided depth from both sides and was easily dismissed. You had your chance but that ship sailed long long ago. The article did a much better job, but my rankings are the same. I use to have Mudiay #1 back in September until Towns and Winslow really came into form and ended up being the best overall players in the NCAA with their excellent demonstration of improving and growing right in front of our eyes in the games that mattered most.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19348 » by damedash09 » Tue May 26, 2015 4:38 am

whocares1 wrote:I'm willing to bet that if D'angelo Russel is already selected by one of the top 3 teams (as well as Okafor) that the Knicks will draft Justice Winslow with the 4th pick. I will be very surprised if it's anyone else.

I would not be shocked if WCS was the pick, just a feeling
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19349 » by melomax » Tue May 26, 2015 4:41 am

at #4, we are picking an eternal role player whose ceiling is 10ppg with above average defense?
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19350 » by melomax » Tue May 26, 2015 4:46 am

and that applies to more than WCS.


Winslow hype on this board is reaching unbelievable height.

has no position
cant be a stretch 4
cant create for teammates

just a spot up shooter and slasher to start his career.

:lol: #4 pick.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19351 » by Kings2013 » Tue May 26, 2015 4:46 am

I hope the order stays straight and you guys select Mudiay, leaving us with WCS/Winslow. Mudiay is a talented kid, perhaps the most talented in the draft, but I'm not sure he fits in with multiple ball dominant players who need spacing

Phil has got this. He will get the Knicks straight this summer!
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19352 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 4:54 am

melomax wrote:at #4, we are picking an eternal role player whose ceiling is 10ppg with above average defense?


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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19353 » by Iron Mantis » Tue May 26, 2015 4:54 am

melomax wrote:at #4, we are picking an eternal role player whose ceiling is 10ppg with above average defense?

I'm with you man. It's absolutely laughable to think the Knicks are not trying to draft a superstar with 4. :crazy:
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19354 » by Blue Ninja » Tue May 26, 2015 4:56 am

DickGrayson wrote:
Blue Ninja wrote:
Winslow certainly does not have a better offensive game. MKG had a slightly better handle, was a better slasher, ran the court among the best of them, better in the post and got to free throw line/made free throws better.


prove it.
Handles, Slasher, and running the court in full break.
everything besides FT shooting.
prove it.


I don't have the time nor the desire to do statistical breakdown. I'm just judging it based on my own analysis of what I saw from these players. You were the one to claim that Winslow has the better offensive game and slashing ability so if you want to claim otherwise you can prove it.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19355 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 4:56 am

Kings2013 wrote:I hope the order stays straight and you guys select Mudiay, leaving us with WCS/Winslow. Mudiay is a talented kid, perhaps the most talented in the draft, but I'm not sure he fits in with multiple ball dominant players who need spacing

Phil has got this. He will get the Knicks straight this summer!


Out of curiosity, how would you guys play Winslow and Rudy Gay together? At the 2/3 or at the 3/4?
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19356 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 4:57 am

DickGrayson wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:

The article presented two perspectives of the topic.


The perspective I quoted is the one you haven't been listening to :lol:. So which is it? That's word for word what I posted yesterday.

I'm not going to go through the whole spiel again on Russell/Mudiay vs Winslow, but the last 2 paragraphs up there sums it up.



No. There's a clear counter argument in the article. It's far from one sided.
I'm not ranking Mudiay/Okafor/Russell over Winslow from all the research I've gathered. Your argument wasn't strong, nor provided depth from both sides and was easily dismissed. You had your chance but that ship sailed long long ago. The article did a much better job, but my rankings are the same. I use to have Mudiay #1 back in September until Towns and Winslow really came into form and ended up being the best overall players in the NCAA with their excellent demonstration of improving and growing right in front of our eyes in the games that mattered most.


What does your current board/ranking now look like bro?
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19357 » by DickGrayson » Tue May 26, 2015 5:02 am

Worst_to_First wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
The perspective I quoted is the one you haven't been listening to :lol:. So which is it? That's word for word what I posted yesterday.

I'm not going to go through the whole spiel again on Russell/Mudiay vs Winslow, but the last 2 paragraphs up there sums it up.



No. There's a clear counter argument in the article. It's far from one sided.
I'm not ranking Mudiay/Okafor/Russell over Winslow from all the research I've gathered. Your argument wasn't strong, nor provided depth from both sides and was easily dismissed. You had your chance but that ship sailed long long ago. The article did a much better job, but my rankings are the same. I use to have Mudiay #1 back in September until Towns and Winslow really came into form and ended up being the best overall players in the NCAA with their excellent demonstration of improving and growing right in front of our eyes in the games that mattered most.


What does your current board/ranking now look like bro?


1. Towns
2. Winslow
3. Russell
4. Mudiay
5. Okafor
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19358 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 5:06 am

DickGrayson wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:

No. There's a clear counter argument in the article. It's far from one sided.
I'm not ranking Mudiay/Okafor/Russell over Winslow from all the research I've gathered. Your argument wasn't strong, nor provided depth from both sides and was easily dismissed. You had your chance but that ship sailed long long ago. The article did a much better job, but my rankings are the same. I use to have Mudiay #1 back in September until Towns and Winslow really came into form and ended up being the best overall players in the NCAA with their excellent demonstration of improving and growing right in front of our eyes in the games that mattered most.


What does your current board/ranking now look like bro?


1. Towns
2. Winslow
3. Russell
4. Mudiay
5. Okafor


Wondering about the distance of Towns and Winslow in your rankings. You're willing to say that Winslow will have more value at the 4th pick than drafting Towns with the 1st?
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19359 » by melomax » Tue May 26, 2015 5:21 am

DickGrayson wrote:
1. Towns
2. Winslow
3. Russell
4. Mudiay
5. Okafor

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:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: '

HE IS A ROLE PLAYER
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19360 » by melomax » Tue May 26, 2015 5:23 am

you know whats funny, take his top 5 in reverse, and you actually have everyone's ceiling in complete rank order.

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