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Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19361 » by beasonu » Tue May 26, 2015 5:23 am

Shooters that will be awesome picks in 2nd round:
Tyler Harvey (Made Eastern Washington relevant this year. Top scorer in nation if you weren't aware. Put up 40 with ease)
Olivier Hanlan (Flat out scorer. This could be the STEAL of the draft, now that Kris Dunn is the dumbass of the year for not entering draft)
Joseph Young (He has the clutch gene. He has heart. He's small but goddamn he can shoot. He looks like a mouse too, he'd be a fan fav)

I would mention Boatright but he isn't athletic enough for this league.

There will be two Knicks starters from this draft going into the beg of season I'm now starting to think, and I hope thats not because we trade it :x


Tyus Jones would have been very interesting if only we could have gotten Okafor. Dude is such a winner. I knew Duke was going to win it all when they came back all the time during reg season cause of this man, plus his closeout FT shooting. Watch both be Lakers :banghead:
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19362 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 8:46 am

This article on Mudiay was written last April. Interesting that this said that Mudiay should be considered as the top pick in this draft especially if the Knicks or Sixers won the lottery. Well he is definitely in play for us at #4, which would cost $1.5-2.0mil/year less than the top pick.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417729-why-emmanuel-mudiay-is-a-legitimate-threat-for-no-1-pick-in-the-2015-nba-draft

Mike DiNovo-USA TODAY Sports

.....sleeping on 6'5" point guard Emmanuel Mudiay is a bad idea.

He's as electrifying a player as you'll find in this draft. It's difficult to translate his exploits for the Guangdong Southern Tigers to the NBA, but he's flashed some fascinating potential.

His ceiling could ultimately be higher than anyone else's in this draft.

Elite Playmaking

It all starts with his playmaking prowess off the bounce. Mudiay has a devastating ability to break down opponents with his shiftiness and agility, and he accelerates past them like few guards can. His ball-handling repertoire has all the makings of a top-tier floor general.

I wouldn't label his physical tools in the Russell Westbrook/John Wall category—that's just not fair—but he's in the vicinity. Mudiay can blow by the first line of defense and elevate above the helpers with his springboard leaping and 6'8 ½" wingspan.

Aside from his eye-popping knack for getting to the bucket, he's a promising floor general.
.....
His penchant for manipulating foes off screens was particularly striking.

Again, the stats and results in China shouldn't be gawked at; rather, it's Mudiay's potential that's most impressive.

Mike Schmitz of Draft Express noted that the youngster "can make every pass out of the pick-and-roll" and that he "has elite feel for his age. [Mudiay] hits the big with pocket passes/lobs, uses hook passes, probes and finds the open man."

He's even more treacherous in transition and unsettled situations, where he pushes the ball aggressively. If he doesn't get all the way to the rim, he usually draws multiple defenders and finds an open teammate for a drop-off or lob.

It's rare to find a 19-year-old with his blend of physical attributes and facilitating skills. That special mix is what makes him a threat to drop 20-plus points and 10 assists on any given night.

Scoring Prowess

Mudiay has a good chance to become a versatile bucket-getter in the Association. In addition to his acrobatic plays around the hoop, he's adept at creating and making his own shots off the bounce or within the flow of the offense.

Outside shooting is his weakest offensive skill right now, but there's reason for optimism. He converted just 34 percent of his triples and 57 percent of his free throws in China, but he sprinkled in some nice mid-range pull-ups, and his long-range accuracy improved during his last couple of games.

After returning from his ankle injury, Mudiay went 4-of-8 from distance in his final two games. His shooting form is a little slow and loose, but it's certainly not broken. It's a fairly fluid delivery; he just needs to streamline his footwork and make the motion more uniform.

ESPN.com's Fran Fraschilla noted another factor that makes Mudiay multidimensional: "Because of his size, Mudiay loves to post up smaller guards. This will be an added bonus for a creative NBA coach."

Defensive Potential

On the defensive side, Mudiay didn't stand out as a prolific performer in China, but he showed some encouraging traits.

His size and lateral quickness helped him wall off opposing playmakers when he was dialed in, and he showed stretches of disruptive play. He had six multisteal games and registered two steals per 40 minutes.

He's displayed some lapses in discipline and fundamentals, but there's nothing to suggest that he won't be an above-average stopper once he sharpens his craft. Mudiay will be able to corral most point guards in the NBA, and his length will allow his coach to put him on shooting guards, too.

Draft Outlook

How does all of this stack up against the other contenders for No. 1 overall? What's the case for Mudiay over these studs?

Obviously, he's a different type of player than Okafor and Towns—they're both post men who can anchor the frontcourt and control the paint. If you're looking for overall playmaking potential and game-changing athleticism on both ends of the floor, however, Mudiay might be your guy.

If a team like the New York Knicks or Philadelphia 76ers wins the lottery, it will strongly consider him because he can ignite the team's offense and dynamically transform the backcourt.

As for the decision between Mudiay and Russell, it could come down to Mudiay's shooting. If he can show noticeable improvement and signs of continual development, he should emerge ahead of Russell in the predraft assessments.

He's a superior athlete to Russell, and B/R's Jonathan Wasserman indicated that if Mudiay could shoot like Russell, "this wouldn't even be a debate."

"If you were building a point guard in a lab, you'd want him to look like Mudiay," Wasserman added.

As great as the point guard crop is in the NBA, elite ones don't grow on trees. That's what Mudiay can become: an uncontainable weapon who brings incalculable value to the squad every night.

When a playmaking gem like that comes along, you have to take a hard look and consider him.


Just so happens that Mudiay's strengths are perceived to not be relevant to the triangle offense especially in comparison to those of Towns, Okafor and Russell. His ability to post up smaller guards is intriguing though. Imagine him backing down someone like Steph Curry. Also a big plus that we will have someone to pass the ball to and make plays when the triangle breaks down. A lot better than simply throwing the ball to Melo and relying on him to bail us out on isolation plays.
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19363 » by BeagleBoss » Tue May 26, 2015 12:44 pm

melomax wrote:
DickGrayson wrote:
1. Towns
2. Winslow
3. Russell
4. Mudiay
5. Okafor

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:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: '

HE IS A ROLE PLAYER


So is Mudiay. Go watch some of his CBA games if you don't believe me. He was a role player on a team that plays in one of the worst leagues on the planet.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19364 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 1:25 pm

Looks like my suspicion is right that Flip Saunders is the team executive that is high on Porzingis. Said to have gushed about him in an interview with Colin Cowherd. Mitch Kupchak also said that a lottery team has approached him regarding the #2 pick. I won't be shocked if there is going to be a trade involving the #1 pick and a team that could give Minny Porzingis.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19365 » by knickstape21 » Tue May 26, 2015 1:30 pm

I don't get why people laugh and make fun of other people's draft boards..like they know who is going to be best in order already...

If someone had kawhi Leonard at the top of their board a couple years ago, everyone would have been RIPPING that dude for being an idiot and calling him a role player blah blah blah.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19366 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue May 26, 2015 1:32 pm

I like Winslow a lot. Just not in my top 4.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19367 » by sims » Tue May 26, 2015 1:37 pm

knickstape21 wrote:I don't get why people laugh and make fun of other people's draft boards..like they know who is going to be best in order already...

If someone had kawhi Leonard at the top of their board a couple years ago, everyone would have been RIPPING that dude for being an idiot and calling him a role player blah blah blah.


kawhi's not a great comparison here because he is, in large part, a product of the spurs' amazing player development system. no question he has the physical attributes and the talent, but i don't think he's the kawhi leonard we know today if he ends up in indiana or toronto.

that's a big part of what's missing in this debate - the raw abilities of the player we get are important of course, but it will all come down to putting that player in a position to succeed at the coaching/management level. given phil's track record with high level talent, i trust that we will do a good job in this regard.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19368 » by moocow007 » Tue May 26, 2015 2:02 pm

melomax wrote:Porzingis, is that guy really 7'2?

internet sleuths! i need help


I believe the talk/rumor/hype is that he is still growing and that they expect him to be 7'2". Basically a 7'2" 3 point shooting version of Andrei Kirilenko is what folks are hyping him to be. If that comes true, that's a no.1 overall pick type player for sure.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19369 » by moocow007 » Tue May 26, 2015 2:04 pm

Knickstape1214 wrote:Willie Trill Cauley-Stein is more McGee than Camby/Tyson.


yeah one of the concerns early on with WCS is that he's sort of a space cadet. I think he's matured some since. Question is how much so that he can have a career more like Camby and Chandler and less like McGee. That said, IF McGee had Camby or Chandler's maturity he'd have been better than them. So....
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Re: My pre-draft analysis for the 4th pick/doomsday situation. 

Post#19370 » by moocow007 » Tue May 26, 2015 2:06 pm

nykballa2k4 wrote:I know there are a lot of repetitive posts out here, tons of draft stuff, but please grant me a thread for no other reason then to alay my fears...

So obviously, we have #4, and there is a pretty clear consensus top 5 picks - Towns, Okafor, Russel, Mudiay and Winslow -- in that order.

My list, however, has been changing of late to Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Okafor and Winslow -- and recently I have heard a good argument to move Winslow up a notch or two.

So here is the break-down I see on draft day:

Pick 1 Minni.
I still see Towns position as the best fit for the wolves as well as the fact that he is the most versatile player and has tremendous upside as a 2-way big man. If nothing else he will rebound.

Pick 2 Lakers.
Yes all the reports indicate Okafor is the pick here, but with Kobe retiring soon, there is reason to believe in 2 scenarios: Either they take a player Kobe wants to groom/play with or they trade down for a win-now piece AND pick a guy in the top 10 who is a good fit. Lets say Magic give them Vucevic and #5...
This impacts us because of the obvious chain reaction. If Okafor is selected, its back to status quo. If Lakers pick Kobes choice... Then I think they take Russell who will help Kobe by providing spacing and a good passer. Kobe might try the mentor role and Lakers can then sign a center in the off-season with hopes of Gasol, but also looking at Kufos, Lopez's, Monroe (same as us). Really not taking a step back in terms of 2015 production(Monroe will probably have a better 2015/16 than Okafor). The cap balloons and the Lakers are in position to pick up Durant.
So lets say Russell goes here....

Pick 3 Sixers
They have a pretty open roster situation. The only known i that Embiid will be the center.
Without Russell on the board, point guard is likely their biggest need and Mudiay has all the raw abilities of a superstar. I fear this is the pick.

Pick 4 Knicks
Here is why I am nervous... If Okafor falls to 4, I think Phil takes him because of his fit for the triangle. Winslow may be the better prospect in terms of overall abilities. Perhaps the best move is to trade the Okafor-pick for another pick and a player that we want (aforementioned Magic deal?). Obviously the pressure on NY if Okafor falls to 4 (effectively 1 pick because Sixers shouldn't want a center when there is a comparable prospect at a position of need). If Okafor becomes a stud, it would obviously be an epic failure on our part passing up on a "top 2 prospect that fell in our laps" on the other hand, if he busts we are going to have the "should have known better" guys talking to us.
If we take Winslow over Okafor, then we have:
C-Melo-Winslow-Hardaway-Calderon and Galloway on the roster with cap space. We would basically NEED one of Robin Lopez, Kosta Koufos, Omer Asik, DeAndre Jordan to complete our 5 for us to have a chance. If we take Okafor - Yes we have a center, but our roster has 5 guys set in stone and only one of them - a former D-leaguer - is known for defense (okay we have Cleanthony and Thanos too, but high impact wise...)

I guess I am worried that I am falling in love too quickly and I will get burned. What do you guys think?


If Okafor falls to 4, Jackson would be an idiot to not pick him.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19371 » by Fat » Tue May 26, 2015 2:17 pm

ill say this much Winslow is a less risky pick & easier to plug pieces around, but i still prefer a big or point Guard (mudiay)
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19372 » by Worst_to_First » Tue May 26, 2015 2:21 pm

To add to what I earlier said, the team that Mitch Kupchak said that is making a play for the #2 pick is In the 5-7 range in the draft. My hunch here is that it is Denver and they are probably dangling Lawson and Faried.

My wild hunch here is that it is not necessarily for Okafor but for Russell. The Nuggets said that they want to play at a faster pace and Mike D'Antoni is rumored to be a coaching candidate. Russell would be a dream come true for Pringles aside from having the altitude intensify your advantage in being a running team.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19373 » by GONYK » Tue May 26, 2015 2:25 pm

Nyk_Fatboy wrote:ill say this much Winslow is a less risky pick & easier to plug pieces around, but i still prefer a big or point Guard (mudiay)


Almost all role players are
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19374 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Tue May 26, 2015 2:32 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:To add to what I earlier said, the team that Mitch Kupchak said that is making a play for the #2 pick is In the 5-7 range in the draft. My hunch here is that it is Denver and they are probably dangling Lawson and Faried.

My wild hunch here is that it is not necessarily for Okafor but for Russell. The Nuggets said that they want to play at a faster pace and Mike D'Antoni is rumored to be a coaching candidate. Russell would be a dream come true for Pringles aside from having the altitude intensify your advantage in being a running team.

Philly will pick Okafor and make us cough up a future first to move up.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19375 » by GONYK » Tue May 26, 2015 2:34 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:To add to what I earlier said, the team that Mitch Kupchak said that is making a play for the #2 pick is In the 5-7 range in the draft. My hunch here is that it is Denver and they are probably dangling Lawson and Faried.

My wild hunch here is that it is not necessarily for Okafor but for Russell. The Nuggets said that they want to play at a faster pace and Mike D'Antoni is rumored to be a coaching candidate. Russell would be a dream come true for Pringles aside from having the altitude intensify your advantage in being a running team.

Philly will pick Okafor and make us cough up a future first to move up.


I think we just take Russell at that point and move on
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19376 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Tue May 26, 2015 2:47 pm

I would try and swap picks with Orlando and pick up one of their young role players like Nicholson or Fournier. Their incentive is making sure they get Porzingis, who is a great fit for them, whereas Mudiay would be totally redundant behind Payton and Oladipo.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19377 » by E-Balla » Tue May 26, 2015 3:04 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:This article on Mudiay was written last April. Interesting that this said that Mudiay should be considered as the top pick in this draft especially if the Knicks or Sixers won the lottery. Well he is definitely in play for us at #4, which would cost $1.5-2.0mil/year less than the top pick.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2417729-why-emmanuel-mudiay-is-a-legitimate-threat-for-no-1-pick-in-the-2015-nba-draft

Mike DiNovo-USA TODAY Sports

.....sleeping on 6'5" point guard Emmanuel Mudiay is a bad idea.

He's as electrifying a player as you'll find in this draft. It's difficult to translate his exploits for the Guangdong Southern Tigers to the NBA, but he's flashed some fascinating potential.

His ceiling could ultimately be higher than anyone else's in this draft.

Elite Playmaking

It all starts with his playmaking prowess off the bounce. Mudiay has a devastating ability to break down opponents with his shiftiness and agility, and he accelerates past them like few guards can. His ball-handling repertoire has all the makings of a top-tier floor general.

I wouldn't label his physical tools in the Russell Westbrook/John Wall category—that's just not fair—but he's in the vicinity. Mudiay can blow by the first line of defense and elevate above the helpers with his springboard leaping and 6'8 ½" wingspan.

Aside from his eye-popping knack for getting to the bucket, he's a promising floor general.
.....
His penchant for manipulating foes off screens was particularly striking.

Again, the stats and results in China shouldn't be gawked at; rather, it's Mudiay's potential that's most impressive.

Mike Schmitz of Draft Express noted that the youngster "can make every pass out of the pick-and-roll" and that he "has elite feel for his age. [Mudiay] hits the big with pocket passes/lobs, uses hook passes, probes and finds the open man."

He's even more treacherous in transition and unsettled situations, where he pushes the ball aggressively. If he doesn't get all the way to the rim, he usually draws multiple defenders and finds an open teammate for a drop-off or lob.

It's rare to find a 19-year-old with his blend of physical attributes and facilitating skills. That special mix is what makes him a threat to drop 20-plus points and 10 assists on any given night.

Scoring Prowess

Mudiay has a good chance to become a versatile bucket-getter in the Association. In addition to his acrobatic plays around the hoop, he's adept at creating and making his own shots off the bounce or within the flow of the offense.

Outside shooting is his weakest offensive skill right now, but there's reason for optimism. He converted just 34 percent of his triples and 57 percent of his free throws in China, but he sprinkled in some nice mid-range pull-ups, and his long-range accuracy improved during his last couple of games.

After returning from his ankle injury, Mudiay went 4-of-8 from distance in his final two games. His shooting form is a little slow and loose, but it's certainly not broken. It's a fairly fluid delivery; he just needs to streamline his footwork and make the motion more uniform.

ESPN.com's Fran Fraschilla noted another factor that makes Mudiay multidimensional: "Because of his size, Mudiay loves to post up smaller guards. This will be an added bonus for a creative NBA coach."

Defensive Potential

On the defensive side, Mudiay didn't stand out as a prolific performer in China, but he showed some encouraging traits.

His size and lateral quickness helped him wall off opposing playmakers when he was dialed in, and he showed stretches of disruptive play. He had six multisteal games and registered two steals per 40 minutes.

He's displayed some lapses in discipline and fundamentals, but there's nothing to suggest that he won't be an above-average stopper once he sharpens his craft. Mudiay will be able to corral most point guards in the NBA, and his length will allow his coach to put him on shooting guards, too.

Draft Outlook

How does all of this stack up against the other contenders for No. 1 overall? What's the case for Mudiay over these studs?

Obviously, he's a different type of player than Okafor and Towns—they're both post men who can anchor the frontcourt and control the paint. If you're looking for overall playmaking potential and game-changing athleticism on both ends of the floor, however, Mudiay might be your guy.

If a team like the New York Knicks or Philadelphia 76ers wins the lottery, it will strongly consider him because he can ignite the team's offense and dynamically transform the backcourt.

As for the decision between Mudiay and Russell, it could come down to Mudiay's shooting. If he can show noticeable improvement and signs of continual development, he should emerge ahead of Russell in the predraft assessments.

He's a superior athlete to Russell, and B/R's Jonathan Wasserman indicated that if Mudiay could shoot like Russell, "this wouldn't even be a debate."

"If you were building a point guard in a lab, you'd want him to look like Mudiay," Wasserman added.

As great as the point guard crop is in the NBA, elite ones don't grow on trees. That's what Mudiay can become: an uncontainable weapon who brings incalculable value to the squad every night.

When a playmaking gem like that comes along, you have to take a hard look and consider him.


Just so happens that Mudiay's strengths are perceived to not be relevant to the triangle offense especially in comparison to those of Towns, Okafor and Russell. His ability to post up smaller guards is intriguing though. Imagine him backing down someone like Steph Curry. Also a big plus that we will have someone to pass the ball to and make plays when the triangle breaks down. A lot better than simply throwing the ball to Melo and relying on him to bail us out on isolation plays.

Not really. Melo is one of the most efficient isolation threats in the league and unless Mudiay has the post game of at least Dwyane Wade he won't be efficient enough in the post to jusitify it over a Melo iso. Melo's issue is how much he iso's not his effectiveness when he does it.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19378 » by Blue Ninja » Tue May 26, 2015 3:12 pm

moocow007 wrote:
melomax wrote:Porzingis, is that guy really 7'2?

internet sleuths! i need help


I believe the talk/rumor/hype is that he is still growing and that they expect him to be 7'2". Basically a 7'2" 3 point shooting version of Andrei Kirilenko is what folks are hyping him to be. If that comes true, that's a no.1 overall pick type player for sure.


I don't see AK47 in him, but there is a ton of potential there. I can see why Flip would love him. He is a very high potential player who with strength and experience can be an all around star. Just a terrible fit for us unfortunately. He needs a fast paced system, who will play him at SF at first and be patient with him. We can offer him none of that.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19379 » by GONYK » Tue May 26, 2015 3:15 pm

Blue Ninja wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
melomax wrote:Porzingis, is that guy really 7'2?

internet sleuths! i need help


I believe the talk/rumor/hype is that he is still growing and that they expect him to be 7'2". Basically a 7'2" 3 point shooting version of Andrei Kirilenko is what folks are hyping him to be. If that comes true, that's a no.1 overall pick type player for sure.


I don't see AK47 in him, but there is a ton of potential there. I can see why Flip would love him. He is a very high potential player who with strength and experience can be an all around star. Just a terrible fit for us unfortunately. He needs a fast paced system, who will play him at SF at first and be patient with him. We can offer him none of that.


I honestly disagree. I think he would be a great fit for us. The only problem would be that the city isn't patient enough to let him develop.

I don't see a system that he can't fit in. His size, skill, and ability to stretch the defense is useful everywhere.
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Re: Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk 

Post#19380 » by Blue Ninja » Tue May 26, 2015 3:15 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:I would try and swap picks with Orlando and pick up one of their young role players like Nicholson or Fournier. Their incentive is making sure they get Porzingis, who is a great fit for them, whereas Mudiay would be totally redundant behind Payton and Oladipo.


Ehh, Mario or Justice is probably a better fit for them. They have Aaron Gordon who is in the same mold of player.

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