Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23
knickstape21 wrote:HEZI wrote:knickstape21 wrote:
Remember when Knox hit that huge 3 at West Virginia and did the nut grab celebration? Cold blooded.
Lazy comp?
Considering Toppin and Knox lack of defense, I’d say it’s pretty spot on
mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:
My worry with Toppin is that he's just an athletic player but not any great skills like shooting or defense or vision/passing or rebounding. I don't know if he won't have any of those skills but sometimes players with his athleticism get too rapped up into just throwing down big dunks but forgets about making players around him better.
Excellent footwork in the post, soft touch around the rim, underrated as a passer and he's made plenty of high IQ passes nothing flashy but little tip passes to his teammates or zip passes cross court he has really nice understanding of the game. The guy is very skilled, we aren't talking about just a leaper here, he is a very talented all around player with star potential.
Pros: I buy the shot translating maybe even out to the 3 pt line consitently...he's a really good passer and I like that. He is an above the rim player.
Cons: He has virtually no post up game. He is top heavy and couldn't back down players that were smaller then him. He won't be able to bully people that are his same size (he will get bullied). While being a great virtical athlete he has some of the worst lateral movemnt I have seen in a while. Super stiff hips and his change in direction will make him a complete liability on the defensive end.
He won't kill you on the glass but also provides you zero rim protection and instincts to play small ball 5. So he's kinda stuck at the 4 and he really doesn't guard in space well either.
I honestly would rather take a chance at Poku who I believe he is a more traditional 4 in todays NBA.
knickstape21 wrote:mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:
Excellent footwork in the post, soft touch around the rim, underrated as a passer and he's made plenty of high IQ passes nothing flashy but little tip passes to his teammates or zip passes cross court he has really nice understanding of the game. The guy is very skilled, we aren't talking about just a leaper here, he is a very talented all around player with star potential.
Pros: I buy the shot translating maybe even out to the 3 pt line consitently...he's a really good passer and I like that. He is an above the rim player.
Cons: He has virtually no post up game. He is top heavy and couldn't back down players that were smaller then him. He won't be able to pully people that are his same size (he will get bullied). While being a great virtical athlete he has some of the worst lateral movemnt I have seen in a while. Super stiff hips and his change in direction will make him a complete liability on the defensive end.
He won't kill you on the glass but also provides you zero rim protection and instincts to play small ball 5. So he's kinda stuck at the 4 and he really doesn't guard in space well either.
I honestly would rather take a chance at Poku who I believe he is a more traditional 4 in todays NBA.
Spot on.
HEZI wrote:mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:
Excellent footwork in the post, soft touch around the rim, underrated as a passer and he's made plenty of high IQ passes nothing flashy but little tip passes to his teammates or zip passes cross court he has really nice understanding of the game. The guy is very skilled, we aren't talking about just a leaper here, he is a very talented all around player with star potential.
Pros: I buy the shot translating maybe even out to the 3 pt line consitently...he's a really good passer and I like that. He is an above the rim player.
Cons: He has virtually no post up game. He is top heavy and couldn't back down players that were smaller then him. He won't be able to bully people that are his same size (he will get bullied). While being a great virtical athlete he has some of the worst lateral movemnt I have seen in a while. Super stiff hips and his change in direction will make him a complete liability on the defensive end.
He won't kill you on the glass but also provides you zero rim protection and instincts to play small ball 5. So he's kinda stuck at the 4 and he really doesn't guard in space well either.
I honestly would rather take a chance at Poku who I believe he is a more traditional 4 in todays NBA.
Automatically disqualified from any further Toppin evaluation
...u out here talking like my man has Tim Duncan footwork. He has a soft touch but but him being top heavy doesn't allow him to back down anyone.
HEZI wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:HEZI wrote:
I actually love that play. He looks to attack the right side early in the shot clock, the defense shifts over to that strong side, he recognizes that it's sealed off so he swings the ball back over to the other wing who has a lane to attack on the left. Imagine that guy he passed it to is RJ Barrett who now has a lane to go attack left where he loves to go to. Imagine that the guy under the basket is Mitchell Robinson who is waiting to either catch the lob from RJ driving and his man coming over to help or he's waiting to clean up the offensive glass. Easy play, not much clock wasted, no forced shot, just simple ball. Even if RJ gets sealed off on his drive there is plenty of time on the clock left to reset and go into another play. RJ's style is even if that lane gets sealed off he's going to try to attack you or turn around and back you down so if Haliburton's guy drops down even a little bit, there is room to hit Haliburton on the outside for the deep 3 ball. Quick and fast decision making, read and react, floor balance, it's a simple game really. As long as he's not a deer in the headlights and isn't shy to shoot from outside while maintaining a good percentage he's going to be just fine.
He has a mismatch on the perimeter so should be able to take him. Had some room to shoot, but he just doesn't have that mid range game and not a good shooter off the dribble...doesnt get to the rim much either. Just one play, but indicative of his non-aggressive game. He is looking to pass in those plays.
Even in pick n rolls as the ball handler, he was only at .64 PPP in the 36% precentile. He was a great passer, just not a big scoring threat since he doesn't get to the rim much or shoot off the dribble. NBA teams can scout that and play him for the pass.
Unless he becomes a more aggressive scorer and develop a mid range/driving game, it will limit his upside. It is def possible he can develop that type of game. But seems like some parts of that are hard to develop.
Again, i like him as a solid player. He has his strengths and weaknesses like everyone else in the draft. Just doesn't seem like he has big scoring/lead guard potential. Seems more like an off the ball, secondary facilitator...that can still be a good player. Him and RJ might be a good fit.
He could have pulled up for a shot but there was over 20 seconds left on the clock so he didn't really have to. There was a guy in the paint waiting for the ball and a guy in the corner spotting up, so there was help defense all around that right side. That really wasn't a good example of a good iso mismatch opportunity. Like I said he had one opportunity to take a long jumper but with it being so early in the clock it wasn't necessary so his decision was a good play. Rather than forcing it to the inside man or swinging it to the guy in the corner he went to the left wing where his teammate had the angle to attack an opening in the lane.
He doesn't need a mid range game, not at all especially if he's playing with RJ Barrett. He needs to shoot as much from behind the line as possible, push the pace and get out in transition and look to attack the paint in halfcourt every now and then.
16/57 on off the bounce jumpers, which ranks 327th out of 383 division 1 players with 50+ attempts.
mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
Pros: I buy the shot translating maybe even out to the 3 pt line consitently...he's a really good passer and I like that. He is an above the rim player.
Cons: He has virtually no post up game. He is top heavy and couldn't back down players that were smaller then him. He won't be able to bully people that are his same size (he will get bullied). While being a great virtical athlete he has some of the worst lateral movemnt I have seen in a while. Super stiff hips and his change in direction will make him a complete liability on the defensive end.
He won't kill you on the glass but also provides you zero rim protection and instincts to play small ball 5. So he's kinda stuck at the 4 and he really doesn't guard in space well either.
I honestly would rather take a chance at Poku who I believe he is a more traditional 4 in todays NBA.
Automatically disqualified from any further Toppin evaluation
He will be a face up player in the NBA...whether thats pick and pops or getting the ball in the pinch post. He is not a guy that will get thrown the ball down low to go to work...sorry about that.
HEZI wrote:mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:
Automatically disqualified from any further Toppin evaluation
He will be a face up player in the NBA...whether thats pick and pops or getting the ball in the pinch post. He is not a guy that will get thrown the ball down low to go to work...sorry about that.
I never said he was Tim Duncan but there is a lot of room in the middle of the spectrum between Duncan and "he has virtually no post up game" which is nonsense.
Doesn't matter where you give him the ball, when you tell him to go to work he's going to find his way to score even if it means going into the post on his own from the faceup especially if there is a switch and he's got a small dude on him. Even guys his size, not all of them got the vertical leaping ability to get up with him.
HEZI wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:robillionaire wrote:We have all the leverage because LaVar is speaking it into existence and utilizing the methods of “the source” via the law of attraction and collective positive thoughts to get him to the Knicks with the first pick. All we have to do is visualize lamelo on the knicks crossing people over and throwing crazy behind the back passes and lobs to Mitch and holding up the Larry O’Brien trophy on the knicks logo and it will manifest itself into reality
This must by why RAP (Rose, Aller, Perrin) must already know it’s a done deal. We don’t have to worry about how it happens just the end result and as GreenArrow said it’s going to happen one way or another
(and you will like it)
Can we also visualize him being able to shoot and play defense?
29-2 and best record in program history is still impressive. He was unstoppable against Anthony Edwards' Georgia team and they blew them out. He was unstoppable against Virginia Tech and they destroyed them. Top ranked Kansas barely squeezed out a win against his team despite Azubuike dominating Toppin inside but Azubuike is a brute and his size and strength will give NBA veteran bigs issues and Toppin was also giving his issues on the other end and almost carried Dayton to victory. Kansas needed overtime to beat them.
This was cold blooded also
Obi gave no fuqs that this was top ranked Kansas
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Obi reminds me of a better shooting, worse defending Randle.
Just not a fan of that type of game
mpharris36 wrote:Deeeez Knicks wrote:Obi reminds me of a better shooting, worse defending Randle.
Just not a fan of that type of game
I kinda see the old broken down knicks amare...still with the leaping
Randle also was a much better rebounder in college too. Over 10 a game. Obi was around 7...so even with him being physically bigger and older then all his matchups I still don't think he asserted his will in areas that I like for a big.
As a face up scoring 4 man, with ability to pass I think he got skills. And his ability to be a rim running big are also pros for him. But I wonder if he will ever be a net positvie player as he is such a liability on the defensive end I think it just limits his impact in the NBA.
robillionaire wrote:Pretty lazy comp seeing as how toppin is old enough to be Kevin Knox’s father even today
HEZI wrote:I know I didn't just read taking Poku over Obi
This keeps getting worse LOL
mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:mpharris36 wrote:
He will be a face up player in the NBA...whether thats pick and pops or getting the ball in the pinch post. He is not a guy that will get thrown the ball down low to go to work...sorry about that.
I never said he was Tim Duncan but there is a lot of room in the middle of the spectrum between Duncan and "he has virtually no post up game" which is nonsense.
Doesn't matter where you give him the ball, when you tell him to go to work he's going to find his way to score even if it means going into the post on his own from the faceup especially if there is a switch and he's got a small dude on him. Even guys his size, not all of them got the vertical leaping ability to get up with him.
there is middle ground I agree but he can only post up small defenders because he has the size ove them. But how many opp in the NBA will he be physically bigger then? He has great leaping ability all that is 100% fact. However he is extremely stiff...that doesn't bode well for someone posting up. For example remember old broken down Amare? He had a soft touch and he had that little baby hook in the post. It was effective vs smaller defenders but I wouldn't necceassary would classify Amare at that time as a good post up player with good moves.
He was physically bigger then nearly ever matchup in college because of the conference he played him and him being already 22 years old.
knickstape21 wrote:NYF13 wrote:knickstape21 wrote:
Considering Toppin and Knox lack of defense, I’d say it’s pretty spot on
Do you think Obi being 22 yrs old already is a concern? Any star you see with that kind of age when drafted?
Jimmy Butler first that comes to mind. Also, players back in the days were drafted close to that age.
I don’t buy the age thing. I play ball and 22 was not even close to my best years. Just not a fan of Toppin.
3toheadmelo wrote:HEZI wrote:I know I didn't just read taking Poku over Obi
This keeps getting worse LOL
Dragan Bender 2.0
HEZI wrote:mpharris36 wrote:HEZI wrote:
I never said he was Tim Duncan but there is a lot of room in the middle of the spectrum between Duncan and "he has virtually no post up game" which is nonsense.
Doesn't matter where you give him the ball, when you tell him to go to work he's going to find his way to score even if it means going into the post on his own from the faceup especially if there is a switch and he's got a small dude on him. Even guys his size, not all of them got the vertical leaping ability to get up with him.
there is middle ground I agree but he can only post up small defenders because he has the size ove them. But how many opp in the NBA will he be physically bigger then? He has great leaping ability all that is 100% fact. However he is extremely stiff...that doesn't bode well for someone posting up. For example remember old broken down Amare? He had a soft touch and he had that little baby hook in the post. It was effective vs smaller defenders but I wouldn't necceassary would classify Amare at that time as a good post up player with good moves.
He was physically bigger then nearly ever matchup in college because of the conference he played him and him being already 22 years old.
Extremely stiff? Are we seriously talking about the same player here?
His stiff hips / slow feet limit his perimeter defense
Despite athleticism is stiff and robotic
Toppin is a great vertical athlete, but he struggles to change directions laterally, showing poor flexibility and footwork in defending on the perimeter.
As previously stated, Toppin has great athleticism. For him to succeed, he needs to make this a larger role in his game as at times he’s seemed stiff.
