2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

[DowNY]

I’m taking Kira in the top 5

Couple weeks ago, I said Kira can be a better DeAron Fox and people scoffed at the idea. We gon see.
At 8, I’m looking Kira or RJ Hampton.

[moocow007]

Think we should consider heavily Tre Jones at #27 - elite D and last 9 ACC games went 8/15 from 3pt and got to the line a lot.

I would hope so. I like Jones a lot. He's very smart, he's highly competitive, he doesn't turn the ball over, he can run an offense and he handles pressure and big moments extremely, extremely well (which tells me that he should be able to handle the transition to the NBA better than most). Great feel for the game. His shooting is probably not going to be his strength but the fact that he's improved it says that he is willing to put in the work to get better which says something about Jones as a individual. At worse Jones should be one heck of a nice backup PG for a winning team but it would not surprise me if he turns out to be more than that.

Do you think he'll have a better career than Elfrid Payton?

As a backup PG (or a PG in general)? Yeah I think he can be.

Payton IMO is an uneven, wishy washy decision maker that doesn't really help teams win. I want to say that he's what I would call a 'stat padder'. He knows what he knows and he will pass to guys who he knows are most likely to get him points in the basket. Might sound about right, but it's not...especially for a team like this. Guys that already are skilled at getting the ball in the basket need less help from their point guards. It's the guys that are less proven and less skilled (i.e. usually the bulk of the team) that need their point guards help to get easy looks and easy shots.

A "winning" type PG is a guy that makes those (lesser) players better...by leading and by doing things that help make them better. That's not Payton. Folks have seen that and mentioned how Payton would often zone out the younger players right? That's what I mean. You want your PG to make everyone better, to take the lead, to be the point of attack, to shoulder the burden of winning. You don't want your PG to be having favorites or doing things that generally aren't condusive to winning in what ultimately is a TEAM sport.

Tre Jones IMO is more of the type of mentality that I'd want at point if I want to win games than Elfrid Payton.

[RHODEY]

Yes, with the 2nd rounder and two years in the GLeague

ANOTHER FRENCH point guard?

I don't think he's really a PG (no he's not a 6'6" long limbed big handed athletic PG). More like a wing. Kinda like Frankie but just with some different skillsets. It should be pretty clear to most by now that Frank is not so much a pure NBA PG as he is an NBA wing that can play some point. Another way to look at it is, as a wing, he has excellent ball skills but as an NBA PG, he's got subpar ball skills. That's Frank and, based on clips, also NDoye.

I can just picture a team like the Raptors picking up this dude and turning him into a stud after a few years.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I'm curious what everyone thinks of Nico Mannon? I've seen him being mocked to us at 27 in a couple mocks but I didn't get to watch him at all at Arizona. The only thing I know about him is that he was highly regarded coming out of high school and kinda flopped at Arizona. Did anyone watch him? There's some other NBA talent on his team, so I'm kinda surprised he struggled so much.

[moocow007]

I'm curious what everyone thinks of Nico Mannon? I've seen him being mocked to us at 27 in a couple mocks but I didn't get to watch him at all at Arizona. The only thing I know about him is that he was highly regarded coming out of high school and kinda flopped at Arizona. Did anyone watch him? There's some other NBA talent on his team, so I'm kinda surprised he struggled so much.

I think part of the problem is that his physical tools are not that great across the board. Yeah he's got some talent on his team but he's also playing in one of the most competitive conferences in college basketball in the Pac-12 (ranked 3rd in RPI). That means he's going up consistently against some very talented players and, as a result, likely to be struggling to get used to the pace and competition he's facing.

So, what does that mean? Not sure. He's had some really good games but he's also had quite a lot of stinkers to be honest where he looks completely outclassed and lost. What's concerning is that the up and down's have been the only consistent thing about his game. He really didn't get noticeably better as the season went along. He is talented. Like a little mini, redheaded wizard with the ball. But my concern is that he may not be mentally up to the challenge of getting into situations where he's consistently going up against guys that are faster and stronger than him (only going to get worse).

At around 27? Yeah it's worth a look for sure. Not sure that I'd consider him a steal at 27. But he was being discussed before the start of the college season as a lottery pick so it's not gone well for him at Arizona. Was he exposed? Not sure. Again, he had some really impressive games against some tough competition. Overrated? Compared to where he was projected coming into college, yeah. But a lot of guys end up being that.

[Oscirus]

Watch on YouTube

Haliburton: 23 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists
Lewis: 8 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds

Haliburton locked him up and destroyed him offensively

One game means nothing. Esp when you're talking potential.

Watch on YouTube

Potential
Potential
Potential

Potential means eveything in this draft. Only ready made prospect is edwards and we're nowhere near him.

[-YogiBiz-]

I'm curious what everyone thinks of Nico Mannon? I've seen him being mocked to us at 27 in a couple mocks but I didn't get to watch him at all at Arizona. The only thing I know about him is that he was highly regarded coming out of high school and kinda flopped at Arizona. Did anyone watch him? There's some other NBA talent on his team, so I'm kinda surprised he struggled so much.

His pull-up game is something to behold, his ability to stop and gather quickly is second to few in this class. He keeps good form on movement shots. He's got really good handles but doesn't use them to get into the lane. He has average NBA-athleticism, but he has a nice first step and quick feet with fluid hips. But his short arms will hurt him tremendously on Defense. At his best in the NBA, he'll be a guy who can create well for himself and the team and plays average defense. He didn't flop as much as people would think.

[robillionaire]

One game means nothing. Esp when you're talking potential.

Watch on YouTube

Potential
Potential
Potential

Potential means eveything in this draft. Only ready made prospect is edwards and we're nowhere near him.

He’s not all that ready made either truth be told he wasn’t that good at Georgia and has a lot of question marks of his own.

[Thepaintismine]

I’m taking Kira in the top 5

Couple weeks ago, I said Kira can be a better DeAron Fox and people scoffed at the idea. We gon see.
At 8, I’m looking Kira or RJ Hampton.

Interesting to see here boyz.
https://sports.yahoo.com/kira-lewis-jr-trainer-believes-213954286.html

snippy

How would Lewis Jr. fit with the Knicks?

Before team president Leon Rose took over, people in the organization felt that the club needed to add a lead guard who can knock down perimeter shots. Whether or not Rose & Co. are still looking to fill that role is unknown, but Lewis Jr. fits the description.

Underwood sees the 19-year-old guard as someone who can space the floor for New York and fit well with RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson.

“There’s probably a lot of pressure (in New York) to draft a LaMelo Ball or another popular guard -- but I think he makes a lot of sense, roster-wise,” Underwood said.

The Knicks have talked to dozens of prospects ahead of the draft. So the idea that New York has spoken to Lewis Jr. shouldn’t be seen as a sign that they are definitely going to draft him. But the Knicks, who have the eighth and 27th picks in the first round, haven’t spoken to every point guard projected in the first round. So their call with Lewis Jr. is a sign that they like him.

One interesting note about the 19-year-old: he skipped his senior year of high school, so he’s a rare 19-year-old who has played two seasons of college basketball. You’d expect this to be seen as a positive by NBA teams.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I'm curious what everyone thinks of Nico Mannon? I've seen him being mocked to us at 27 in a couple mocks but I didn't get to watch him at all at Arizona. The only thing I know about him is that he was highly regarded coming out of high school and kinda flopped at Arizona. Did anyone watch him? There's some other NBA talent on his team, so I'm kinda surprised he struggled so much.

I think part of the problem is that his physical tools are not that great across the board. Yeah he's got some talent on his team but he's also playing in one of the most competitive conferences in college basketball in the Pac-12 (ranked 3rd in RPI). That means he's going up consistently against some very talented players and, as a result, likely to be struggling to get used to the pace and competition he's facing.

So, what does that mean? Not sure. He's had some really good games but he's also had quite a lot of stinkers to be honest where he looks completely outclassed and lost. What's concerning is that the up and down's have been the only consistent thing about his game. He really didn't get noticeably better as the season went along. He is talented. Like a little mini, redheaded wizard with the ball. But my concern is that he may not be mentally up to the challenge of getting into situations where he's consistently going up against guys that are faster and stronger than him (only going to get worse).

At around 27? Yeah it's worth a look for sure. Not sure that I'd consider him a steal at 27. But he was being discussed before the start of the college season as a lottery pick so it's not gone well for him at Arizona. Was he exposed? Not sure. Again, he had some really impressive games against some tough competition. Overrated? Compared to where he was projected coming into college, yeah. But a lot of guys end up being that.

The guy apparently has a negative wingspan, which I don't think I've ever seen scouting players before. I decided to take a look at his game log and his only great games came against good teams were Oregon and UCLA. He looks like he's NBA quick with good touch too but his inefficiency kinda baffles me. I wonder if he was the only creator on Arizona so he had to take a bunch of horrible shots off the dribble? I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if we drafted him but I think there's other guards I'd rather draft over him/

[Zenzibar]

One game means nothing. Esp when you're talking potential.

Watch on YouTube

Potential
Potential
Potential

Potential means eveything in this draft. Only ready made prospect is edwards and we're nowhere near him.

Beg to differ. The most ready made prospect is Obi Toppin, Edwards couldn't even dominate college.

[F N 11]

I’m taking Kira in the top 5

Couple weeks ago, I said Kira can be a better DeAron Fox and people scoffed at the idea. We gon see.
At 8, I’m looking Kira or RJ Hampton.

Interesting to see here boyz.
https://sports.yahoo.com/kira-lewis-jr-trainer-believes-213954286.html

snippy

How would Lewis Jr. fit with the Knicks?

Before team president Leon Rose took over, people in the organization felt that the club needed to add a lead guard who can knock down perimeter shots. Whether or not Rose & Co. are still looking to fill that role is unknown, but Lewis Jr. fits the description.

Underwood sees the 19-year-old guard as someone who can space the floor for New York and fit well with RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson.

“There’s probably a lot of pressure (in New York) to draft a LaMelo Ball or another popular guard -- but I think he makes a lot of sense, roster-wise,” Underwood said.

The Knicks have talked to dozens of prospects ahead of the draft. So the idea that New York has spoken to Lewis Jr. shouldn’t be seen as a sign that they are definitely going to draft him. But the Knicks, who have the eighth and 27th picks in the first round, haven’t spoken to every point guard projected in the first round. So their call with Lewis Jr. is a sign that they like him.

One interesting note about the 19-year-old: he skipped his senior year of high school, so he’s a rare 19-year-old who has played two seasons of college basketball. You’d expect this to be seen as a positive by NBA teams.

Nice bit about being a 19 year old Sophmore. Damnnnnnnn

there has to be a reason why hes not hyped. guy has all the tools. What am I missing?

[Manhattan Project]

Nice bit about being a 19 year old Sophmore. Damnnnnnnn

there has to be a reason why hes not hyped. guy has all the tools. What am I missing?

Fast, but it's straight line speed.
Awareness leaves a lot to be desired as a PG.
The turnovers, the weight, can he adjust to the bigger bodies in the NBA?

He could be Fox, he could be a rich mans Ish Smith with shooting.

[Juco24]

Nice bit about being a 19 year old Sophmore. Damnnnnnnn

there has to be a reason why hes not hyped. guy has all the tools. What am I missing?

Fast, but it's straight line speed.
Awareness leaves a lot to be desired as a PG.
The turnovers, the weight, can he adjust to the bigger bodies in the NBA?

He could be Fox, he could be a rich mans Ish smith with shooting.

There's just no way I'd take him @ 8... just my .02

[Manhattan Project]

Fast, but it's straight line speed.
Awareness leaves a lot to be desired as a PG.
The turnovers, the weight, can he adjust to the bigger bodies in the NBA?

He could be Fox, he could be a rich mans Ish smith with shooting.

There's just no way I'd take him @ 8... just my .02

Absolutely not, play the season out with Smith/Frank to see if either are the actual answer. I want as many chances at Cunningham next year as the next guy. Kira makes sense in a trade down scenario, but we're in no position to be trading down really unless it's someone we can't turn down.

[JXL]

Fast, but it's straight line speed.
Awareness leaves a lot to be desired as a PG.
The turnovers, the weight, can he adjust to the bigger bodies in the NBA?

He could be Fox, he could be a rich mans Ish smith with shooting.

There's just no way I'd take him @ 8... just my .02

Absolutely not, play the season out with Smith/Frank to see if either are the actual answer. I want as many chances at Cunningham next year as the next guy. Kira makes sense in a trade down scenario, but we're in no position to be trading down really unless it's someone we can't turn down.

If this was a straightforward type of draft I would agree, but with no NCAA tourney nor any EYBL or any scouting games, this draft is based off of old tape. For the Knicks, if Kira is a top 10 prospect, why wouldn't they take him if he's in that 7-15 range?

[Manhattan Project]

If this was a straightforward type of draft I would agree, but with no NCAA tourney nor any EYBL or any scouting games, this draft is based off of old tape. For the Knicks, if Kira is a top 10 prospect, why wouldn't they take him if he's in that 7-15 range?

The lack of tournament probably hurts the players more than the teams, you can't becoming prisoners of the moment. You just watch the game film and judge it off that. Again I think mock drafts are good for people to use as a reference to learn a little more about players they generally didn't know that much about, or flat out didn't watch the conference.

Kira Lewis in various mocks
NBC: 19
NBAdraftnet: 23
Tankathon: 22
Bleacher: 15

So the question becomes, is Kira Lewis better than Ball, Hayes or Haliburton?
Does he slide in more with Flynn, Terry, Anthony etc?

Just about getting the most value out of your draft pick, for me personally, Kira at 8 makes little sense. It's not as if I'm a big believer in Smith nor in Frank being the lead guard, I just rather address something at 8 that we need.

[robillionaire]

If this was a straightforward type of draft I would agree, but with no NCAA tourney nor any EYBL or any scouting games, this draft is based off of old tape. For the Knicks, if Kira is a top 10 prospect, why wouldn't they take him if he's in that 7-15 range?

The lack of tournament probably hurts the players more than the teams, you can't becoming prisoners of the moment. You just watch the game film and judge it off that. Again I think mock drafts are good for people to use as a reference to learn a little more about players they generally didn't know that much about, or flat out didn't watch the conference.

Kira Lewis in various mocks
NBC: 19
NBAdraftnet: 23
Tankathon: 22
Bleacher: 15

So the question becomes, is Kira Lewis better than Ball, Hayes or Haliburton?
Does he slide in more with Flynn, Terry, Anthony etc?

Just about getting the most value out of your draft pick, for me personally, Kira at 8 makes little sense. It's not as if I'm a big believer in Smith nor in Frank being the lead guard, I just rather address something at 8 that we need.

kira will be going closer to 27 than 8. and wouldn't have benefitted from the tournament either because they didn't make it, alabama wasn't any good

[HarthorneWingo]

There's just no way I'd take him @ 8... just my .02

Absolutely not, play the season out with Smith/Frank to see if either are the actual answer. I want as many chances at Cunningham next year as the next guy. Kira makes sense in a trade down scenario, but we're in no position to be trading down really unless it's someone we can't turn down.

If this was a straightforward type of draft I would agree, but with no NCAA tourney nor any EYBL or any scouting games, this draft is based off of old tape. For the Knicks, if Kira is a top 10 prospect, why wouldn't they take him if he's in that 7-15 range?

No combine workouts this year?

[RHODEY]

Nice bit about being a 19 year old Sophmore. Damnnnnnnn

there has to be a reason why hes not hyped. guy has all the tools. What am I missing?

Fast, but it's straight line speed.
Awareness leaves a lot to be desired as a PG.
The turnovers, the weight, can he adjust to the bigger bodies in the NBA?

He could be Fox, he could be a rich mans Ish Smith with shooting.

Smith is very solid , A rich mans version of that is Fox level IMO.