Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[2010]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).

Nice find!

[Worst_to_First]

Looks like my suspicion is right that Flip Saunders is the team executive that is high on Porzingis. Said to have gushed about him in an interview with Colin Cowherd. Mitch Kupchak also said that a lottery team has approached him regarding the #2 pick. I won't be shocked if there is going to be a trade involving the #1 pick and a team that could give Minny Porzingis.

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

[beasonu]

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/report- ... t-combine/

Report: Knicks interviewed Kevon Looney at NBA Draft Combine

"It’s one thing for a team to explore all options, but it’s nevertheless a little surprising to see Looney’s name associated with the Knicks. He hasn’t really been heralded as a top five pick at all.
Nevertheless, perhaps he’s someone New York would consider if they end up trading down in the draft as part of a larger deal."

this could be nothing.
Or they could be prepping for a deal. This guy is Lamar Odom 2.0

He absolutely sucks and I watched atleast 15 UCLA games.

[Capn'O]

as for the Porzingis hype train:

Andrea averaged 10.9 points, 4.1 rebounds (1.1 O), 0.9 blocks in over 21 minute per game in the Euroleague

PER 36 :

18.5 PTS / 6.97 RBS / 1.53 BLK

Porzingis averaged 11.6 points, 4.1 rebounds (0.9 O), 1.2 blocks in just under 21 minute per game in the Eurocup.

PER 36 :

19.9 PTS / 7.04 RBS / 2.06 BLK

So, as you can see, their stats are incredibly similar, porzingis is a bit better shot blocker. The main difference is that Bargs played in the Euroleague, which is a big bonus to him. Draw your own conclusions.

Not sure what's the fascination in Porzingis when we already have Bargnani.

[beasonu]

Mudiay is 6'5 190

That awkward moment when I'm 5'10 and 190.

[2010]

If that is your definition, then Porzingis is right up there. His trajectory path is just longer.

C'mon bro. You have to realize that Porzingis is a bigger risk than Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, and Russell. Everyone has been saying the consensus top 4 of this draft has been those guys for the longest. Every year as we get closer to the actual draft you get Fran Fraschilla and Chad Ford hyping up some Euro as a darkhorse sleeper pick that's gonna guy higher than expected. Every year you get these comparisons to Dirk and Pau. Nevermind the fact that Dirk and Pau play NOTHING alike. Another thing is that Dirk and Pau came both came along when not all 30 NBA teams were extensively scouting European players. So the element of surprise or finding some underrated big is a lot less likely than in years past. How many busts or underwhelming bigs from the international leagues do we need to see before we stop being hoodwinked and falling for the hype. Basically what I'm saying is, I don't believe for a minute that Porzingis is worthy of being drafted before the top-4 projected guys. And any random anonymous quote coming from some NBA exec is probably a misdirection or smokescreen tactic. IMO, Porzingis is a helluva lot more of a risk than the consensus top 4 picks and a tier below them in talent as well as immediate impact. I mean, even if this guy does pan the team that drafts him won't likely reap the benefits until after his rookie deal expires. Think about that...

Nothing you said disagrees with anything I said.

If we are simply talking about a player's projected ceiling, then Porzingis is right up there with anyone in the draft. The size, the skillset, the age and his level of production all put him there.

Now whether or not he actually fulfills it? Who knows. It remains to be seen just like everyone else in the top 4.

I'm not commenting on how likely he is to become KG with a 3 pt shot (or whatever comparison you like best). I'm just saying that his potential makes that a possible projection, and that puts his ceiling up there with everyone else.

Ok, point taken. I'm just reading from a lot of posters of these scenarios that are being presented as likely that Porzingis goes before any of the projected top 4. I highly doubt any GM will put his head in the noose like that. If it was a 2-man draft then maybe. But this is a 4-man draft. No need for any of these top 4 franchises to take that risk. Iono, maybe it's just people trying to talk themselves into Porzingis going top 4 out of wishful thinking hoping Towns/Okafor fall to us. I just don't see that happening realistically.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Mudiay is 6'5 190

That awkward moment when I'm 5'10 and 190.

I thought Mudiay was 205 tho

[Marcus]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

i'd love to see him get a defined post game and land somewhere in-between Kidd and the Glove offensively. Whereas young Kidd could be corralled in the half court, (because as long you kept him from the rack you were usually good) GP had that nasty PG post game that I think Manny could try and add to his. with his size, vision, and a mouse on his back applied to some of the post elements in the Triangle (for those concerned with fit) he could be effective in sets without having a mean jumper. Mix in his PnR and transition elements and you have something here.

[2010]

Looks like my suspicion is right that Flip Saunders is the team executive that is high on Porzingis. Said to have gushed about him in an interview with Colin Cowherd. Mitch Kupchak also said that a lottery team has approached him regarding the #2 pick. I won't be shocked if there is going to be a trade involving the #1 pick and a team that could give Minny Porzingis.

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

Brah, you're buggin. Flip isn't passing up the highest potential guy in the draft in Towns for a long-term project in Porzingis + Knicks trash (Calderon/Hardaway). It's not happening bro. Just fact the reality. We aren't getting Towns.

[GONYK]

C'mon bro. You have to realize that Porzingis is a bigger risk than Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, and Russell. Everyone has been saying the consensus top 4 of this draft has been those guys for the longest. Every year as we get closer to the actual draft you get Fran Fraschilla and Chad Ford hyping up some Euro as a darkhorse sleeper pick that's gonna guy higher than expected. Every year you get these comparisons to Dirk and Pau. Nevermind the fact that Dirk and Pau play NOTHING alike. Another thing is that Dirk and Pau came both came along when not all 30 NBA teams were extensively scouting European players. So the element of surprise or finding some underrated big is a lot less likely than in years past. How many busts or underwhelming bigs from the international leagues do we need to see before we stop being hoodwinked and falling for the hype. Basically what I'm saying is, I don't believe for a minute that Porzingis is worthy of being drafted before the top-4 projected guys. And any random anonymous quote coming from some NBA exec is probably a misdirection or smokescreen tactic. IMO, Porzingis is a helluva lot more of a risk than the consensus top 4 picks and a tier below them in talent as well as immediate impact. I mean, even if this guy does pan the team that drafts him won't likely reap the benefits until after his rookie deal expires. Think about that...

Nothing you said disagrees with anything I said.

If we are simply talking about a player's projected ceiling, then Porzingis is right up there with anyone in the draft. The size, the skillset, the age and his level of production all put him there.

Now whether or not he actually fulfills it? Who knows. It remains to be seen just like everyone else in the top 4.

I'm not commenting on how likely he is to become KG with a 3 pt shot (or whatever comparison you like best). I'm just saying that his potential makes that a possible projection, and that puts his ceiling up there with everyone else.

Ok, point taken. I'm just reading from a lot of posters of these scenarios that are being presented as likely that Porzingis goes before any of the projected top 4. I highly doubt any GM will put his head in the noose like that. If it was a 2-man draft then maybe. But this is a 4-man draft. No need for any of these top 4 franchises to take that risk. Iono, maybe it's just people trying to talk themselves into Porzingis going top 4 out of wishful thinking hoping Towns/Okafor fall to us. I just don't see that happening realistically.

I'm not advocating it. I would take Mudiay/Russell and run.

I'm just saying Porz is an intriguing prospect and I wouldn't exactly burn the place to the ground if Phil traded down or took a flyer on the kid.

I agree that Mudiay is the safer pick and already has the foundation to pan out. He should be the pick.

[riter]

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/report- ... t-combine/

Report: Knicks interviewed Kevon Looney at NBA Draft Combine

"It’s one thing for a team to explore all options, but it’s nevertheless a little surprising to see Looney’s name associated with the Knicks. He hasn’t really been heralded as a top five pick at all.
Nevertheless, perhaps he’s someone New York would consider if they end up trading down in the draft as part of a larger deal."

this could be nothing.
Or they could be prepping for a deal. This guy is Lamar Odom 2.0

He absolutely sucks and I watched atleast 15 UCLA games.

I wish I would've seen your post b4 I pasted this to the FA thread with speculation

[2010]

Mudiay is 6'5 190

That awkward moment when I'm 5'10 and 190.

He's actually 200lbs. And he hasn't even filled out yet cuz dude just turned 19. Kid is gonna be a physical force to be reckoned with at PG for years. And the great thing is he will probably have a long career since he doesn't rely on buttnaked speed/explosion to get where he wants to be on the court.

Early on I was higher on Russell (and I still love Russell to death) but Mudiay may be a blessing in disguise for us. We're looking at size/strength/athletcism comparable to Wade (but even an inch or so taller) but with a pure PG mindset. You gotta be crazy for people to want to pass that up over an unreliable jumper. Dude still hit 34% on 3P in China!

[TrueWarrior]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

I've been overly critical of Manny's athleticism myself, but I've pointed out a bunch of times that he did seem more athletic last year than in his China stint. Watching the Hoops Summit, Mickey Ds, and Jordan Classic games Manny by far stood out the most from the pack with his all around physical tools and explosiveness. The Wall/Westbrook comps weren't far off. He seemed to have put on some weight in China or was just ironically not trying to get hurt. Who knows, but you can't lose half a step in 5 months unless you were seriously injured. He def has more size/strength/athleticism combo potential than arguably every PG in the league, and his shot isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Manny is the easy choice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Philly takes him. He seemed to have slimmed down again in that latest workout vid and looked explosive. Been doing two a days and mainly working on his shot too. If there's anyone who will benefit from workouts it's him.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Let's not forget that we have the originator of bully ball in Melo himself. He will take Mudiay under his wing and teach him how to use his size and strength to have these smaller point guards applying tons of icy hot after the game. We could have ourselves a point guard capable of defending, passing, getting to the rack, pushing the pace, directing the flow of the offense, and posting up. Most of the time we have a point guard capable of only doing 1 or 2 of these things...Mudiay can be very special.

[2010]

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

i'd love to see him get a defined post game and land somewhere in-between Kidd and the Glove offensively. Whereas young Kidd could be corralled in the half court, (because as long you kept him from the rack you were usually good) GP had that nasty PG post game that I think Manny could try and add to his. with his size, vision, and a mouse on his back applied to some of the post elements in the Triangle (for those concerned with fit) he could be effective in sets without having a mean jumper. Mix in his PnR and transition elements and you have something here.

But fam, the scary schit is he already has a refined post game



I been watching every full game video I can find on him since we got the 4th pick and his footwork and post moves are advanced bro. I've seen him score out of the post and pass out of the post. I've seen him do turnaround/fadeaway jumpers out of the post. I've seen him do up-and-unders, spin-moves, floaters/hooks, etc. It's like if the defender takes away his first move this cat has counters. He is gonna really surprise some people.

[2010]

Nothing you said disagrees with anything I said.

If we are simply talking about a player's projected ceiling, then Porzingis is right up there with anyone in the draft. The size, the skillset, the age and his level of production all put him there.

Now whether or not he actually fulfills it? Who knows. It remains to be seen just like everyone else in the top 4.

I'm not commenting on how likely he is to become KG with a 3 pt shot (or whatever comparison you like best). I'm just saying that his potential makes that a possible projection, and that puts his ceiling up there with everyone else.

Ok, point taken. I'm just reading from a lot of posters of these scenarios that are being presented as likely that Porzingis goes before any of the projected top 4. I highly doubt any GM will put his head in the noose like that. If it was a 2-man draft then maybe. But this is a 4-man draft. No need for any of these top 4 franchises to take that risk. Iono, maybe it's just people trying to talk themselves into Porzingis going top 4 out of wishful thinking hoping Towns/Okafor fall to us. I just don't see that happening realistically.

I'm not advocating it. I would take Mudiay/Russell and run.

I'm just saying Porz is an intriguing prospect and I wouldn't exactly burn the place to the ground if Phil traded down or took a flyer on the kid.

I agree that Mudiay is the safer pick and already has the foundation to pan out. He should be the pick.

If Phil gets cute and either reaches for a lower ceiling immediate impact type (Winslow, WCS) or trades down and takes the risk for a long term project Euro type (Porzingis, Hezonja) while passing over Mudiay or Russell I'm absolutely gonna be heated bro. That might be the straw that breaks that camel's back for me.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Another thing I like about Mudiay is that he doesn't seem like the type where you'll ever have to say "he didn't show up". The Knicks need players like that

[beasonu]

http://theknicksblog.com/knicks/report- ... t-combine/

Report: Knicks interviewed Kevon Looney at NBA Draft Combine

"It’s one thing for a team to explore all options, but it’s nevertheless a little surprising to see Looney’s name associated with the Knicks. He hasn’t really been heralded as a top five pick at all.
Nevertheless, perhaps he’s someone New York would consider if they end up trading down in the draft as part of a larger deal."

this could be nothing.
Or they could be prepping for a deal. This guy is Lamar Odom 2.0

He absolutely sucks and I watched atleast 15 UCLA games.

I wish I would've seen your post b4 I pasted this to the FA thread with speculation

Sarcasm lol?

[Marcus]

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

i'd love to see him get a defined post game and land somewhere in-between Kidd and the Glove offensively. Whereas young Kidd could be corralled in the half court, (because as long you kept him from the rack you were usually good) GP had that nasty PG post game that I think Manny could try and add to his. with his size, vision, and a mouse on his back applied to some of the post elements in the Triangle (for those concerned with fit) he could be effective in sets without having a mean jumper. Mix in his PnR and transition elements and you have something here.

But fam, the scary schit is he already has a refined post game



I been watching every full game video I can find on him since we got the 4th pick and his footwork and post moves are advanced bro. I've seen him score out of the post and pass out of the post. I've seen him do turnaround/fadeaway jumpers out of the post. I've seen him do up-and-unders, spin-moves, floaters/hooks, etc. It's like if the defender takes away his first move this cat has counters. He is gonna really surprise some people.

you've done your research i see lol. there's less mystery to Manny than folks seem to think. But yeah he will surprise those who haven't done homework on him. Should be in the ROY convo next year.

[beasonu]

Mudiay is 6'5 190

That awkward moment when I'm 5'10 and 190.

He's actually 200lbs. And he hasn't even filled out yet cuz dude just turned 19. Kid is gonna be a physical force to be reckoned with at PG for years. And the great thing is he will probably have a long career since he doesn't rely on buttnaked speed/explosion to get where he wants to be on the court.

Early on I was higher on Russell (and I still love Russell to death) but Mudiay may be a blessing in disguise for us. We're looking at size/strength/athletcism comparable to Wade (but even an inch or so taller) but with a pure PG mindset. You gotta be crazy for people to want to pass that up over an unreliable jumper. Dude still hit 34% on 3P in China!

You mean "you gotta be the Knicks" but yeah I agree