Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[Curuch13]

Looks like my suspicion is right that Flip Saunders is the team executive that is high on Porzingis. Said to have gushed about him in an interview with Colin Cowherd. Mitch Kupchak also said that a lottery team has approached him regarding the #2 pick. I won't be shocked if there is going to be a trade involving the #1 pick and a team that could give Minny Porzingis.

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

Excellent post. I like the trade. Basically you get our more expensive deadweight in exchange for your cheaper ones. As to the sweeteners, don't think you have to give that much. Difference in talent from the 1st to 4th pick is nonexistent. Just want to get some compensation for the good luck that we had. The two second rounders you got from the Shved trade and $3mil in cash (which would almost pay for our draftee's entire first-year salary) should do. Yes you lose the warchest in buying 2nd rounders but you do not need that for this year. Just re-sign some of your guys from last season.

I like Porzingis a lot but would also consider drafting Mudiay. Guy screams Dwyane Wade PG-version to me. I think we can ship Rubio to the Celtics in exchange for Gerald Wallace, Kelly Olynk and maybe a couple of first round draft picks. Kevin Love is as good as Boston's as we swap the guy he hates for a PG that he probably cries at night missing. We can then put forth an up-tempo team that Flip likes:

G - Mudiay / Calderon
G- LaVine / KMart / Hardaway
C - Dieng / Pekovic / Hamilton
F - Olynk / Payne / KG / Hummel
F - Wiggins / Shabazz / Wallace

[djphan]

What makes you think Winslow will be a great offensive player? He had one of the lower points per 40 in the DX top 100, and benefitted greatly from playing with Jah. Imagine if he faced any double teams.

Winslow will be great in transition, hit some spot up corner threes, and be able to get to the basket occasionally. Not much different than Corey Brewer and countless others. Go look at all the athletic/defensive wings available in free agency compared to top PGs.

If you want a two way player then you should want Mudiay because he has all the tools to become a very good defender himself, and is practically the same size as Justise. Mudiay has much more offensive skill/upside though.

Also we throw out Jimmy Butler this/Kawhi that when it comes to Justise. I want a better player than Butler though. Give me the guy closer to Rose than Butler. While Kawhi is a freak of nature with his wingspan/hands and has the advantage of being a Spur. These guys are a huge exception.

saying winslow just does what corey brewer does is vastly underselling him... you can't just compare any good defender with another good defender and say they have the same offensive skills... that doesn't make sense... i could pass on towns and grab willie cauley stein with that kind of logic... the difference is the entire package...

if you look at all the wing prospects in this draft.... he finishes at great efficiency and with pretty good volume compared to all of them... out of russell, oubre, johnson he beats them all by a country mile in efficiency.... playing with okafor you could say that he benefited with playing with him and that might be true... but he also didn't get as many shots because of it so it's a bit unfair to say that he got all this help but ding him for not getting the volume and opportunities that all the other wing prospects had... they got more shots but they didn't do much more with them...

the guy gets to the basket... with or without okafor.. he has a nice euro step.. he has hesitations and he has a half decent crossover... he can finish with either hand... he also has a semblance of a post game... and he can spot up.... half of those things brewer, mkg or even iguodala never had... or even jimmy butler or kawhi leonard...

some might have him beat in one or two areas... but he's better than all of them when you take everything into account.. and yes he is a better prospect than all of them...

and that's only if you take the full season stats into account... if you go by the last 20 games one in which he played MUCH tougher competition... it is not even close... i don't think any wing prospect save for harden or wade or durant had as good a stretch as winslow has had in the last 10 years... i don't know for sure since game logs are tough to compile... but that's your upside... and that's something he actually DID over a period of games that was almost twice as long as mudiay has played....

and that's most of the reasoning why winslow is a much better pick than mudiay... same upside if not higher... much higher floor.. much better fit in the triangle...

[El Poochio]

Am I the only one who feels we are discussing the same things over and over again?

[Curuch13]

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

Brah, you're buggin. Flip isn't passing up the highest potential guy in the draft in Towns for a long-term project in Porzingis + Knicks trash (Calderon/Hardaway). It's not happening bro. Just fact the reality. We aren't getting Towns.

He's not buggin, it is a well thought-out post. Towns being the best guy in the draft is not even a sure thing. Porzingis could be better than him especially in relation to us.

And Knicks trash are another team's treasure. You have obviously not learned your lesson.

[Curuch13]

It's kinda funny but Flip Saunders definitely would be the one to pass on Towns and Okafor for another prospect...not that it has anything to do with Porzingas and his potential, just even without knowing about him if you told me to pick a team that would do that...Minne would be an early guess.

He would have the real Kevin Garnett to tutor the European one. Hard to pass on that.

KG mentoring an Euro ?! Ain't happening. Ask Calderon and Gasol about the treatment they got from Garnett. I bet he barely tolerates Rubio on the team.

LOL. But KG would definitely be the perfect mentor/example for Porzingis. Moreso that being one for Towns

Now before I get shown the door I know my way. TWolves fan out.....

[DickGrayson]

saying winslow just does what corey brewer does is vastly underselling him... you can't just compare any good defender with another good defender and say they have the same offensive skills... that doesn't make sense... i could pass on towns and grab willie cauley stein with that kind of logic... the difference is the entire package...

if you look at all the wing prospects in this draft.... he finishes at great efficiency and with pretty good volume compared to all of them... out of russell, oubre, johnson he beats them all by a country mile in efficiency.... playing with okafor you could say that he benefited with playing with him and that might be true... but he also didn't get as many shots because of it so it's a bit unfair to say that he got all this help but ding him for not getting the volume and opportunities that all the other wing prospects had... they got more shots but they didn't do much more with them...

the guy gets to the basket... with or without okafor.. he has a nice euro step.. he has hesitations and he has a half decent crossover... he can finish with either hand... he also has a semblance of a post game... and he can spot up.... half of those things brewer, mkg or even iguodala never had... or even jimmy butler or kawhi leonard...

some might have him beat in one or two areas... but he's better than all of them when you take everything into account.. and yes he is a better prospect than all of them...

and that's only if you take the full season stats into account... if you go by the last 20 games one in which he played MUCH tougher competition... it is not even close... i don't think any wing prospect save for harden or wade or durant had as good a stretch as winslow has had in the last 10 years... i don't know for sure since game logs are tough to compile... but that's your upside... and that's something he actually DID over a period of games that was almost twice as long as mudiay has played....

and that's most of the reasoning why winslow is a much better pick than mudiay... same upside if not higher... much higher floor.. much better fit in the triangle...

I agree. Those comparisons lack substance. Basically every defense SF = Winslow. Winslow is just a defensive specialist now with no offensive game.

Winslow euro-step and first step are unstoppable from what I seen on film. It'll transition well into the NBA. Most guys develop into their 3rd or 4th NBA year. I see Winslow hitting Butler/Leonard tier but in his own fashion. I believe Winslow spent the first half of the season injured/hurt, but really came strong into the last 20 games and of course we've notice how he stood out as the most productive and impact player in the tourney.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHAJ0RSILKg[/youtube]

[DickGrayson]

He would have the real Kevin Garnett to tutor the European one. Hard to pass on that.

KG mentoring an Euro ?! Ain't happening. Ask Calderon and Gasol about the treatment they got from Garnett. I bet he barely tolerates Rubio on the team.

LOL. But KG would definitely be the perfect mentor/example for Porzingis. Moreso that being one for Towns

Now before I get shown the door I know my way. TWolves fan out.....

you sure you werent a Knicks fan before? It's okay brothen I've witnessed many others jump teams.

[Dantares]

Can someone find me a comp of another 6'5"+ penetrating true PG that has the combination of size, strength, and athleticism that Mudiay has? Remember, 6'5" and up. So no Westbrook, Wall, or Rose cuz those cats are 6'4" and below and they're thin wiry strong types. No Penny Hardaway either as he was 6'7" but thin as well with no power game. The closest I can come up with are J-Kidd and Magic but neither of them were as athletic as Mudiay. Not saying Mudiay is better than any of these cats. Just pointing out we may have a player with a truly rare combination of physical attributes within our reach. The closest person with his skillset was a young Stephon Marbury but even Marbury didn't have the size (although he had the skillset and physical strength).

out of all the names i've seen associated I think Kidd might be the closest. its gonna be hard to find everything you're looking for to match the comp completely.

Yeah man. I'm just throwing it out there cuz I feel like some of us are underrated the package of physical attributes Mudiay brings to the table. People keep throwing out he doesn't have Wall/Westbrook/Rose explosiveness, but those dudes don't have his height, strength, power game, and ability to post up. Usually the explosive types are very wiry and lean (Westbrook, Wall, Rose) with not as much potential as a post option. Usually guys that are Mudiay's height and bigger (Magic, Kidd, Penny, young Shaun Livingston) are great post options but lack the above the rim athleticism and dexterity Mudiay possesses. Then when you throw in his understanding of pace, changing speeds, and poise and I firmly believe he is a unique set of physical tools. We're basically looking at a bigger, stronger, more athletic Stephon Marbury with better mental makeup and a more willing passer. If he gets his shot together this kid may end up being right there with Towns in franchise changing upside.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I was going to make a thread on this after we got the 4th pick because I was so sick of people bitching that we slipped to 4th but people got over it quickly and started realizing Mudiay is the real deal. I have never seen that combo of speed, quickness, size and power in a PG. The kid is currently 203 pounds and 4% body fat, he's built like a rock. and he's only going to get stronger. he probably fills out to 210-215 when he hits his prime.

[Worst_to_First]

If this is true, it would be a great chance for the Knicks to capitalized. Minnesota doesn't have great depth in the guard positions, they could use someone like Hardaway Jr/Calderon. It'll give a shot at Towns for the Knicks. However this is wishful thinking, maybe Phil may be comfortable at 4. I just don't want to dwell into this too much because I remember how hard I was going for the Knicks to trade up for Rubio/Curry.

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

Brah, you're buggin. Flip isn't passing up the highest potential guy in the draft in Towns for a long-term project in Porzingis + Knicks trash (Calderon/Hardaway). It's not happening bro. Just fact the reality. We aren't getting Towns.

I know man, that's why I have been busy hyping myself up for Mudiay and even getting open-minded with DickGrayson's pitch for Winslow.

Thank you for bringing me back to reality though.

[El Poochio]

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ajecL9Lrh4M[/youtube]

Is that Russell who threw the pass? Lefty, number '0', wristband..

[Worst_to_First]

Interesting that Minny fans are only locked in a (heated) debate between Towns and Okafor wherein we would have been fully engaged with the KAT, OK4 and Russell discussions if we had won the top pick. Flip though has said otherwise and will be looking at all options. Even some Minny fans have said that Flip does not care and could go against the norm.

At present the TWolves depth chart look like this heading into the draft and offseason and armed with very little cap space:

C - Pekovic / Dieng / Hamilton
PF - KG / Bennett / Payne / Hummel
SF - Wiggins / Shabazz/ Budginger
SG - KMart
PG - Rubio / LaVine

They have very little guards and PF is their deepest yet weakest position. Flip will get bashed if he trades down to get Porzingis but doing this and engaging in a trade to get backcourt depth might be the smart move to make.

Assuming a theoretical trade with us:

Minny out: #1 pick, Bennett ($6mil), Budginger ($5mil expiring)
Knicks out: #4 pick, Calderon, THJr, Thanasis + Sweeteners

Minny would be freeing up about $4mil in cap space with this trade as well as filling up their backcourt with 'serviceable' players. The key here is the sweetners and this is why I am glad I am not the GM. I would have folded and probably give up more than necessary knowing teams below us in the lottery could put up better offers as well as with me being a huge believer in what KAT could do with us especially in our system. In the end though everything hinges on how high Flip is with Porzingis or any other prospect compared to Towns/Okafor

Brah, you're buggin. Flip isn't passing up the highest potential guy in the draft in Towns for a long-term project in Porzingis + Knicks trash (Calderon/Hardaway). It's not happening bro. Just fact the reality. We aren't getting Towns.

He's not buggin, it is a well thought-out post. Towns being the best guy in the draft is not even a sure thing. Porzingis could be better than him especially in relation to us.

And Knicks trash are another team's treasure. You have obviously not learned your lesson.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ajecL9Lrh4M[/youtube]

Is that Russell who threw the pass? Lefty, number '0', wristband..

Ya, that's him

[Knicks218]

Give me Mudiay or Winslow and ill be happy.

[TrueWarrior]

What makes you think Winslow will be a great offensive player? He had one of the lower points per 40 in the DX top 100, and benefitted greatly from playing with Jah. Imagine if he faced any double teams.

Winslow will be great in transition, hit some spot up corner threes, and be able to get to the basket occasionally. Not much different than Corey Brewer and countless others. Go look at all the athletic/defensive wings available in free agency compared to top PGs.

If you want a two way player then you should want Mudiay because he has all the tools to become a very good defender himself, and is practically the same size as Justise. Mudiay has much more offensive skill/upside though.

Also we throw out Jimmy Butler this/Kawhi that when it comes to Justise. I want a better player than Butler though. Give me the guy closer to Rose than Butler. While Kawhi is a freak of nature with his wingspan/hands and has the advantage of being a Spur. These guys are a huge exception.

saying winslow just does what corey brewer does is vastly underselling him... you can't just compare any good defender with another good defender and say they have the same offensive skills... that doesn't make sense... i could pass on towns and grab willie cauley stein with that kind of logic... the difference is the entire package...

if you look at all the wing prospects in this draft.... he finishes at great efficiency and with pretty good volume compared to all of them... out of russell, oubre, johnson he beats them all by a country mile in efficiency.... playing with okafor you could say that he benefited with playing with him and that might be true... but he also didn't get as many shots because of it so it's a bit unfair to say that he got all this help but ding him for not getting the volume and opportunities that all the other wing prospects had... they got more shots but they didn't do much more with them...

the guy gets to the basket... with or without okafor.. he has a nice euro step.. he has hesitations and he has a half decent crossover... he can finish with either hand... he also has a semblance of a post game... and he can spot up.... half of those things brewer, mkg or even iguodala never had... or even jimmy butler or kawhi leonard...

some might have him beat in one or two areas... but he's better than all of them when you take everything into account.. and yes he is a better prospect than all of them...

and that's only if you take the full season stats into account... if you go by the last 20 games one in which he played MUCH tougher competition... it is not even close... i don't think any wing prospect save for harden or wade or durant had as good a stretch as winslow has had in the last 10 years... i don't know for sure since game logs are tough to compile... but that's your upside... and that's something he actually DID over a period of games that was almost twice as long as mudiay has played....

and that's most of the reasoning why winslow is a much better pick than mudiay... same upside if not higher... much higher floor.. much better fit in the triangle...

Seriously? If you count Wade and Harden as wings then Russell is too. Hes the same size as them and plays the same combo guard role. There's been plenty of better stretches than Justise's. The guy barely scored double figures, if even that, half the time down the stretch. Great all around games but come on now.

I actually like Winslow a lot and take him 5th, but you're really stretching his offense while downplaying Mudiay's. Offense will always be favored in this league as far as players to build around go. Which is why guys like Melo, Curry, and Harden are max players. Justise has nice offensive upside and nobody says he cant improve, but Mudiay has him beat everywhere on offense right now, unless you count Justise's wide open spot up threes to say he's a better shooter.

Ill keep sayin it: Give me Rose, Curry, Lillard, Manu, Harden, Dirk, and Westbrook over Jimmy B, Draymond, Matthews, Kawhi, Ariza, Marion, and Ibaka.

Two way =/= better player overall.

[Worst_to_First]

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ajecL9Lrh4M[/youtube]

Is that Russell who threw the pass? Lefty, number '0', wristband..

Ya, that's him

Oh, that's why a Sixers fan wanted to get pick #4 from us for 3 first rounders.

[Capn'O]

But KG would definitely be the perfect mentor/example for Porzingis.

[Marcus]

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ajecL9Lrh4M[/youtube]

Is that Russell who threw the pass? Lefty, number '0', wristband..

Yep!!! Jordan Brand Classic.

[Crunch time 1]

I work in philly and ran into a guy who works in Chicago . Any way he asked if I like basketball I said I'm a Knicks fan. He said well I have news for you the knocks will draft Winslow. Lol I was like huh why you say that. He told me he is a cousin to Phil Jackson. I don't know it was random and I never seen him before but this is what he said. It could be bs idk but if we draft him you heard it here first.

[Jeff Van Gully]

We need some rumors or something. Workouts...Give us something. refreshing realgm every 10 seconds is not helping my work day go any faster with no stories.

Ask and ye shall receive .

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ulSWLjUeOQ[/youtube]

the tank is automatic

[NYKnicksTAPE]

I work in philly and ran into a guy who works in Chicago . Any way he asked if I like basketball I said I'm a Knicks fan. He said well I have news for you the knocks will draft Winslow. Lol I was like huh why you say that. He told me he is a cousin to Phil Jackson. I don't know it was random and I never seen him before but this is what he said. It could be bs idk but if we draft him you heard it here first.

Are u kidding me? U fell for that sh*t? They haven't even done workouts