ImageImageImageImageImage

The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

Moderators: j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 137,898
And1: 136,238
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1961 » by god shammgod » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:56 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
I can agree with that but him playing more wasn’t going to miraculously lead to him learning how to play the point guard position at nba level.


most likely not but you drafted him high, so let him sink or swim

i don't think i believe this, but it could be that they think they're protecting him by not doing that. they expect him to most likely fail so they're letting him develop for a few years before they try it. the only problem is next year is the last year of his rookie deal and you have to know what you got before then. they're probably just not high on him.

A previous admin drafted him way too high.


he was being mocked around there. dallas was rumored to take him if we didn't. it wasn't really a stretch, he just hasn't played that well.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,913
And1: 45,530
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1962 » by GONYK » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:59 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
GONYK wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
The ones that are here.


Frank at PG was the highest performing lineup we rolled out all season. Seems like he was helping.

Certainly more than Manny, Mario, Burke, Knox, etc...


Top lineup on a trash team isn’t saying much plus once DSJr came frank wasn’t gonna play over him.


Top lineup on a trash team led by a player who you drafted and have under contract isn't saying much, but it says a whole hell of a lot more than a worse performing lineup led by players with no future here. To argue otherwise just doesn't hold water.

This has nothing to do with DSJ. You made a claim that playing him came at expense of everyone else on the team. That just wasn't true.
User avatar
MaseInYourFace
RealGM
Posts: 26,393
And1: 11,272
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Location: North Jersey
     

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1963 » by MaseInYourFace » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:00 pm

You don’t need to keep throwing him out there at a position he clearly can’t play at nba level. Knicks actually took too long to realize that.
MIAMI HEAT BAF
G- James Harden
G- Malcolm Brogdon
F- Robert Covington
F- Paul Millsap
C- Dwight Howard
Bench: S. Milton, F. Korkmaz, K. Bazemore, D. Oturu, J. McDaniels, A. Caruso, T. Mann
IR: X. Tillman Sr., J. Nwora, E. Hughes,
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,913
And1: 45,530
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1964 » by GONYK » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:00 pm

god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:
The ones that are here.


Frank at PG was the highest performing lineup we rolled out all season
. Seems like he was helping.

Certainly more than Manny, Mario, Burke, Knox, etc...


that has to be a very small sample size but to me that shouldn't even be a real factor. you used a top 10 pick on him, had him for 3 more years and those other guys at point were never gonna be re-signed. that's all you really needed to know.


Bingo. Competent management would prioritize the asset they own over the one they know they are letting go.
User avatar
3toheadmelo
RealGM
Posts: 95,016
And1: 136,132
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
 

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1965 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:01 pm

god shammgod wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I wanna see DSJ and Frank play together. I think they can be a pretty nice duo


the truth is there's barely any good back court combinations because most of our guards can't shoot. let's see who improves enough to change that.

I think DSJ and Frank will at least be average shooters from 3 this season. We’ll have to see though
Image
It’s like when lil bitches make subliminal records, if it ain’t directed directly at me, I don’t respect it
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,913
And1: 45,530
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1966 » by GONYK » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:11 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:You don’t need to keep throwing him out there at a position he clearly can’t play at nba level. Knicks actually took too long to realize that.


I guess we can all look forward to Knox being out of the rotation too then.
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 34,914
And1: 35,649
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1967 » by Fat Kat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:13 pm

GONYK wrote:
MaseInYourFace wrote:You don’t need to keep throwing him out there at a position he clearly can’t play at nba level. Knicks actually took too long to realize that.


I guess we can all look forward to Knox being out of the rotation too then.


If he regresses, yes.
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
BKlutch
RealGM
Posts: 18,148
And1: 16,225
Joined: Jan 11, 2015
Location: A magical land of rainbows and cotton candy trees where the Knicks D gonna F you up
   

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1968 » by BKlutch » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:14 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Frank at PG was the highest performing lineup we rolled out all season
. Seems like he was helping.

Certainly more than Manny, Mario, Burke, Knox, etc...


that has to be a very small sample size but to me that shouldn't even be a real factor. you used a top 10 pick on him, had him for 3 more years and those other guys at point were never gonna be re-signed. that's all you really needed to know.


Bingo. Competent management would prioritize the asset they own over the one they know they are letting go.

So either Fiz is incompetent or he was stealthy tanking. Given the mess that was last year, I can't yet decide which was true. It could also be both.

Either way, we want to find out early in the season so the FO can start planning his replacement, if necessary.
.

____________________
____________________


:basketball: * We have a Brunson Burner™ * :basketball:
* Make the Knicks Champs Again *
:basketball: ** GO NY GO NY GO NY GO! ** :basketball:
____________________
____________________

.
.
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 137,898
And1: 136,238
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1969 » by god shammgod » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:18 pm

what is the harm if you do keep throwing him out there though ? you can't ruin an asset that has no value. it can only go up or stay the same. to me, no matter who made the pick or not, you try to get something out of it even if you expect it to fail.
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 34,914
And1: 35,649
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1970 » by Fat Kat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:26 pm

god shammgod wrote:what is the harm if you do keep throwing him out there though ? you can't ruin an asset that has no value. it can only go up or stay the same. to me, no matter who made the pick or not, you try to get something out of it even if you expect it to fail.


I honestly don’t think Frank himself was confident in his ability to run the point. He deferred when possible, and often looked uncomfortable out there.

Frank giving up the ball and retreating to the corner wasn’t necessarily mandated by Fiz. It was what Frank felt most comfortable doing. The only way to “put him in a position to succeed” might be getting him gleague reps.
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,243
And1: 55,148
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1971 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:36 pm

Another issue with Frank is that he does seem like a player that needs a system and structure. I don’t think you can throw him out there with no set plays or system and expect him to make something happen or for him to do well. That seems how Fiz wanted our guards to play. It didn’t work at all and was a horrible offense. It was a free for all so players that weren’t shy about getting there own shots could do well and get there own, but team ball and the overall offense suffered a lot.

If Frank doesn’t fit, that is one thing. But Fiz’s vision and offense is another. With or without Frank it needs a complete overhaul else I could see other players like RJ struggling too....Knox was lost too. I mean, yeah blame should fall on the player but I think we def could have put some of these guys in better positions to succeed, which in turn would help us.
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 137,898
And1: 136,238
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1972 » by god shammgod » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:42 pm

you know what, i went and looked at his minutes and it actually wasn't as bad as i remembered

he got 30 in oct
20 in nov, 19 in dec & jan
got hurt and didn't play after that except for 2 games in march

that doesn't seem that bad. he probably shouldn't have got minutes at the 3 at all but the amount of minutes seems kind of fair.
User avatar
Fat Kat
RealGM
Posts: 34,914
And1: 35,649
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
     

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1973 » by Fat Kat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:47 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Another issue with Frank is that he does seem like a player that needs a system and structure. I don’t think you can throw him out there with no set plays or system and expect him to make something happen or for him to do well. That seems how Fiz wanted our guards to play. It didn’t work at all and was a horrible offense. It was a free for all so players that weren’t shy about getting there own shots could do well and get there own, but team ball and the overall offense suffered a lot.

If Frank doesn’t fit, that is one thing. But Fiz’s vision and offense is another. With or without Frank it needs a complete overhaul else I could see other players like RJ struggling too.


This is some of what we ran

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/12/6/18128203/film-study-what-kind-of-offense-are-the-knicks-running
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
User avatar
Gravy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,998
And1: 9,412
Joined: Jun 25, 2015
     

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1974 » by Gravy » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Tim Hardaway Jr was far and away our best scorer last season and Frank played all his games with him. Wasn't he the main reason that line up performed well? I don't have access to all those advanced stats.
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,243
And1: 55,148
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1975 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Another issue with Frank is that he does seem like a player that needs a system and structure. I don’t think you can throw him out there with no set plays or system and expect him to make something happen or for him to do well. That seems how Fiz wanted our guards to play. It didn’t work at all and was a horrible offense. It was a free for all so players that weren’t shy about getting there own shots could do well and get there own, but team ball and the overall offense suffered a lot.

If Frank doesn’t fit, that is one thing. But Fiz’s vision and offense is another. With or without Frank it needs a complete overhaul else I could see other players like RJ struggling too.


This is some of what we ran

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/12/6/18128203/film-study-what-kind-of-offense-are-the-knicks-running


We ran some simply plays that everyone does but there wasn't really any system and we didnt come close to building an identity. Often it turned ugly with Timmy/Burke/Mudiay chucking shots up. We were last in offensive efficiency and assists.

Even Fiz acknowledged a lot this, so hopefully it gets better.

He came into the job touting position-less basketball and a hard-nosed, but forward-thinking, approach. He pointed to his connections to the LeBron James-era Heat, who deployed pace-and-space into the NBA and promised to play fast. It was supposed to be the beginning of the age of modernity at Madison Square Garden.

Fizdale’s reviews of his offense so far are mixed.

“Up and down,” he said. “But I do know that when we move the ball, it has its moments of looking really good. And when we hold it, we look like a terrible basketball team.”

More than halfway into his debut season with the Knicks, it’s still not clear what kind of coach Fizdale is and how he wants the Knicks to play. They have not developed any hard-set identity or style, especially on offense. It is easy to say the Knicks’ offense has not been good. It is harder to say what kind of outcomes they’re trying to create.


Fizdale says he is not trying to form an offense around his players this season, nor is he trying to get them to play to his system. Instead, it seems, he just wants to make the best of what he has. Maybe the goal of this season for Fizdale, and the Knicks, is just to survive it in hopes of better seasons ahead.

“I’m trying to find balance because we’re not where I want to be yet necessarily for who we’re going to be, from that standpoint,” Fizdale said. “At the same time I want to keep some familiarity at what we’re going to be doing in the future. At the same time, try to do stuff that can at least highlight and give these guys a chance to be successful on the court. It’s really finding a balance right now for what works for the group and who we have on the floor.”
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
DOT
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,427
And1: 61,100
Joined: Nov 25, 2016
         

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1976 » by DOT » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:11 pm

Gravy wrote:Tim Hardaway Jr was far and away our best scorer last season and Frank played all his games with him. Wasn't he the main reason that line up performed well? I don't have access to all those advanced stats.
Team was better with Frank on and Tim off than both Frank and Tim on

Tim scored more than anyone, but was inefficient, a non playmaker, and terrible at defense. He's a complete negative for advanced stats

Same thing with DSJ and Knox

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
BaF Lakers:

Nikola Topic/Kasparas Jakucionis
VJ Edgecombe/Jrue Holiday
Shaedon Sharpe/Cedric Coward
Kyle Filipowski/Collin Murray-Boyles
Alex Sarr/Clint Capela

Bench: Malcolm Brogdon/Hansen Yang/Rocco Zikarsky/RJ Luis Jr.
MadGrinch
Veteran
Posts: 2,879
And1: 413
Joined: Jan 31, 2002
Location: NYC of course

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1977 » by MadGrinch » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:40 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Gravy wrote:Tim Hardaway Jr was far and away our best scorer last season and Frank played all his games with him. Wasn't he the main reason that line up performed well? I don't have access to all those advanced stats.
Team was better with Frank on and Tim off than both Frank and Tim on

Tim scored more than anyone, but was inefficient, a non playmaker, and terrible at defense. He's a complete negative for advanced stats

Same thing with DSJ and Knox

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Is that a vote for stealth tank?
Its because I'm green isn't it?
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1978 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:41 pm

INBT3rd Frank thread of the Summer
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 81,441
And1: 95,116
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1979 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:03 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:INBT3rd Frank thread of the Summer


Here to make it another 100 page Frank thread
Image
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 81,441
And1: 95,116
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#1980 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:04 pm

Or not.
Image

Return to New York Knicks