Build a Franchise Season 4 Offseason- Commish Update pg. 93

[Depalma2002]

Initially, I came on with my mind made up thinking I was going to vote to allow the deals as long as they were provable, legal, and on an all or none basis. However, after reading through the responses, I really can see the point that many, if not all, of us have made handshake deals that could not yet be confirmed for one reason or another, some even months in advance, I think we all knew (at least I did) that we were operating fully on trust and could potentially get burned with our only recourse and comfort would be in knowing that the GM who backed out would have a hard time getting anyone to deal with him in the future. I certainly have some second thoughts.

Really hard decision, but I'm going to stick with my intitial instinct. If:
1. There are screenshots provided of the PM chain showing the deal with all details agreed to by both parties
2. The deals are legal according to BAF rules
3. All of the disputed deals meet 1 and 2.

Then I'm going to vote yes to allowing the deals.

If even one of the deals doesn't meet the criteria then I think all three should not be allowed. If we are going to operate under the assumption that BK intended on going through with the deals, I think it's fair to operate on the assumption that his moves were interdependent. If one is disallowed, the others break down. I think it needs to be all or nothing.

[bringbackhoffa]

So....what's going on?

Fyi I voted against, read through the posts over the last 24 hours, but simply based my decision on the fact that a trade isnt official until both parties send it into Bish and he confirms it as a legal trade.

If anyone quotes my post and posts an alternative argument I will not respond, I already sent in my vote to bish.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Smash3]

I know I've been mentioned a couple times but I moved on. I gave Braz two weeks to show up and when he didn't I settled for a worse deal, but it is what it is, I wasn't going to wait around for him to show up – and I didn't think we could vote on it, even though I probably have the best argument since Braz did send a confirmation when Bish wasn't accepting confirmations.

[2010]

I know I've been mentioned a couple times but I moved on. I gave Braz two weeks to show up and when he didn't I settled for a worse deal, but it is what it is, I wasn't going to wait around for him to show up – and I didn't think we could vote on it, even though I probably have the best argument since Braz did send a confirmation when Bish wasn't accepting confirmations.

See, this is the type of clarification I am seeking before voting. Braz sending in a premature confirmation during the trade moratorium would be enough to get a FOR vote from me.

[BowlRips]

I've been tied up but can finally speak my piece on this situation.

BK has always been solid with me. We've done big trades in the past like the KAT blockbuster. As such we communicated frequently via PM up until right before his disappearance, and even on WhatsApp many times previously.

We discussed deals all the time. I know first hand that he agreed to deal Capela to ribs. How so? Because I was initially targeting Capela, and BK respectfully let me know he had a better deal, and that Capela was Atlanta bound. He would always get back to me, and never left leave me in limbo regardless of whether or not a trade could be consummated.

I'm also solid in communications with NewEra. So I know for a fact that BK agreed to a major deal with him, as well. I won't speak on the moving parts in this one, out of respect for the confidentiality element between NewEra and I. But the deal was there and in place, to the point it altered my perspective and my planning for this offseason.

Smash3 and I, are also good money. As you all know, we completed a Bagley/Nunn deal at the turn of the new league season. As such, since I was in communication with him, and with BK, in independent negotiations, I know for a fact Tobias Harris was due to be heading Portland's way.

I say all that to say this. I'd like to think I’m good with the vast majority of GMs here. I firmly believe in honoring ones word when a deal is agreed to in principle. Handshake deals should be honored by GMs for credibility purposes alone.

At the same time, I do not view this situation as a flaw in our trade protocols, at all. The system we have in place works like a well-oiled machine. Bish has come to the rescue countless times on deals that were agreed upon, but could not be processed, for a myriad of reasons. Issues such as cap implications, pick discrepancies, roster spots, Exempt List player issues, etc.

Therefore, it would simply be inefficient to consider agreements between GMs "official." Quite frankly, a deal is not official until it has been agreed to by all parties, sent in by all parties to bish via PM, and subsequently announced in the discussion thread. Anything outside of that is unofficial and premature, rendering it incapable of being considered an official trade transaction.

I have a lot of respect for all parties involved. So I'm torn because, while I know these discussions took place and were even agreed upon, these trades were not sent in to Bish, and they weren't announced, due to BK's disappearance. However, what I won't do, is speculate on why BK is no longer active here.

As for me, I always do my best to ensure I follow through with my word on any deal I wholeheartedly agree to. Please believe I will follow through, once I give my trade agreement to another GM in PM. I would never disappear on this competition or this group. Some say it's just a game to pass the time and enjoy the sport we all love. But to me it's bigger than that. It's a brother/sisterhood (wdup Greenie). We laugh, talk wild to eachother, fall out, and come back together good money, as if nothing ever happened.

If I ever disappear weeks/months with no word, best believe I‘m either dead, gravely ill, or incarcerated.

Lastly, I gave my word to NewEra I would not allow my prior knowledge of the moving parts involved with his trade to influence my vote. I have no idea why BK never sent in his confirmation(s) to Bish. But before I send in my vote, I do need clarification on one crucial development.

NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

I’d like clarification on the timeline of the enlarged. I understand BK disappeared by the time of the official turn of the new league year on July 11th. But my question to Bish is, many of us (myself included) attempted to send agreed deals in even earlier, on or closer to July 1st. Yet we were ultimately told, any official deals have to be resubmitted to the commissioner on July 11th. With that said, did BK ever make any prior attempts to send any of these aforementioned 3 deals in to you? Was he ever told they'd have to be resubmitted at the official turnover of the new league season?

Good question!
BK approved other trades as these 3 confirmations were still outstanding? That changes the fact pattern a bit

[NewEra]

Good morning BAF fam,
Please continue to get your votes in to Bish. I would like you to vote FOR my trade with BK to go through. The current numbers are leaning against, but I believe that can change with YOUR participation.

My BAF vets, I need all of you to vote please! You don’t have to go public with your argument if you don’t want to. Just PM Bish. Thanks!

FOR (3)- Det, LAC, Mem

AGAINST (6)- Cha, Cle, Den, LAK, NO, SA

[j4remi]

I'm inclined to approve the deals this time with a firm, "this is a one time thing, no exceptions from here on out."

- The gm's involved (BK included) all have a history of being legit and it's clear as day they all had agreements.
- We had the unique circumstances of a lockdown, offseason uncertainty and a completely new schedule having to form.
- The deals can still go up for league veto I assume if they're egregious or one sided right?

I get that this is "bending the rules" but the circumstances are unique as hell. I'm not mad at anybody voting against, that makes sense too. It's just a set of issues where I doubt we'll have to deal with it again and I suspect, everyone will practice caution in that type of instance moving forward. I'm curious what BK's roster would look like after all three deals anyway.

[Depalma2002]

I know I've been mentioned a couple times but I moved on. I gave Braz two weeks to show up and when he didn't I settled for a worse deal, but it is what it is, I wasn't going to wait around for him to show up – and I didn't think we could vote on it, even though I probably have the best argument since Braz did send a confirmation when Bish wasn't accepting confirmations.

Well this solidifies my vote. I was willing to vote to make an exception to the letter of the law but as I stated, I felt it needed to be all three or none. Since Smash has moved on and that deal is off the table, I can't assume that BK would have followed through on just two of the three.

Hard decision, but based on this, I'm submitting a "no" vote.

[bishnykfan]

Spoiler:

I've been tied up but can finally speak my piece on this situation.

BK has always been solid with me. We've done big trades in the past like the KAT blockbuster. As such we communicated frequently via PM up until right before his disappearance, and even on WhatsApp many times previously.

We discussed deals all the time. I know first hand that he agreed to deal Capela to ribs. How so? Because I was initially targeting Capela, and BK respectfully let me know he had a better deal, and that Capela was Atlanta bound. He would always get back to me, and never left me in limbo regardless of whether or not a trade could be consummated.

I'm also solid in communications with NewEra. So I know for a fact that BK agreed to a major deal with him, as well. I won't speak on the moving parts in this one, out of respect for the confidentiality element between NewEra and I. But the deal was there and in place, to the point it altered my perspective and my planning for this offseason.

Smash3 and I, are also good money. As you all know, we completed a Bagley/Nunn deal at the turn of the new league season. As such, since I was in communication with him, and with BK, in independent negotiations, I know for a fact Tobias Harris was due to be heading Portland's way.

I say all that to say this. I'd like to think I’m good with the vast majority of GMs here. I firmly believe in honoring ones word when a deal is agreed to in principle. Handshake deals should be honored by GMs for credibility purposes alone.

At the same time, I do not view this situation as a flaw in our trade protocols, at all. The system we have in place works like a well-oiled machine. Bish has come to the rescue countless times on deals that were agreed upon, but could not be processed, for a myriad of reasons. Issues such as cap implications, pick discrepancies, roster spots, Exempt List player issues, etc.

Therefore, it would simply be inefficient to consider agreements between GMs "official." Quite frankly, a deal is not official until it has been agreed to by all parties, sent in by all parties to bish via PM, and subsequently announced in the discussion thread. Anything outside of that is unofficial and premature, rendering it incapable of being considered an official trade transaction.

I have a lot of respect for all parties involved. So I'm torn because, while I know these discussions took place and were even agreed upon, these trades were not sent in to Bish, and they weren't announced, due to BK's disappearance. However, what I won't do, is speculate on why BK is no longer active here.

As for me, I always do my best to ensure I follow through with my word on any deal I wholeheartedly agree to. Please believe I will follow through, once I give my trade agreement to another GM in PM. I would never disappear on this competition or this group. Some say it's just a game to pass the time and enjoy the sport we all love. But to me it's bigger than that. It's a brother/sisterhood (wdup Greenie). We laugh, talk wild to eachother, fall out, and come back together good money, as if nothing ever happened.

If I ever disappear weeks/months with no word, best believe I‘m either dead, gravely ill, or incarcerated.

Lastly, I gave my word to NewEra I would not allow my prior knowledge of the moving parts involved with his trade to influence my vote. I have no idea why BK never sent in his confirmation(s) to Bish. But before I send in my vote, I do need clarification on one crucial development.

NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

I’d like clarification on the timeline of the enlarged. I understand BK disappeared by the time of the official turn of the new league year on July 11th. But my question to Bish is, many of us (myself included) attempted to send agreed deals in even earlier, on or closer to July 1st. Yet we were ultimately told, any official deals have to be resubmitted to the commissioner on July 11th. With that said, did BK ever make any prior attempts to send any of these aforementioned 3 deals to you? Was he ever told they'd have to be resubmitted at the official turnover of the new league season?

Spoiler:

Initially, I came on with my mind made up thinking I was going to vote to allow the deals as long as they were provable, legal, and on an all or none basis. However, after reading through the responses, I really can see the point that many, if not all, of us have made handshake deals that could not yet be confirmed for one reason or another, some even months in advance, I think we all knew (at least I did) that we were operating fully on trust and could potentially get burned with our only recourse and comfort would be in knowing that the GM who backed out would have a hard time getting anyone to deal with him in the future. I certainly have some second thoughts.

Really hard decision, but I'm going to stick with my intitial instinct. If:
1. There are screenshots provided of the PM chain showing the deal with all details agreed to by both parties
2. The deals are legal according to BAF rules
3. All of the disputed deals meet 1 and 2.

Then I'm going to vote yes to allowing the deals.

If even one of the deals doesn't meet the criteria then I think all three should not be allowed. If we are going to operate under the assumption that BK intended on going through with the deals, I think it's fair to operate on the assumption that his moves were interdependent. If one is disallowed, the others break down. I think it needs to be all or nothing.

Spoiler:

Good question!
BK approved other trades as these 3 confirmations were still outstanding? That changes the fact pattern a bit

First off I read 2010's post picturing this:

Watch on YouTube

Chills...and I agree with everything and appreciate the thought he and most here have put into this. There are no right/wrong answers for this bad situation.


More importantly, the last PM I received from BK was on July 1st, 10 days before our season opened. He did tell me about the trade he was working on with smash but the trade he presented to me was not a legal one. He asked if the trade he and smash were working on was legal, I told him there were problems with it he responded once thanking me and that was the last time I heard from him. Prior to that, the last I heard from him was June 25th when he voted on the rule change proposals and let me know about a decision on his EL player. I did not tell him he had to resubmit the deal on July 11th because the last deal he sent was not legal. He never PM'd me any deal with either ribs or NewEra. NewEra has provided me with a screenshot of their accepted deal.

[mpharris36]

Spoiler:

I've been tied up but can finally speak my piece on this situation.

BK has always been solid with me. We've done big trades in the past like the KAT blockbuster. As such we communicated frequently via PM up until right before his disappearance, and even on WhatsApp many times previously.

We discussed deals all the time. I know first hand that he agreed to deal Capela to ribs. How so? Because I was initially targeting Capela, and BK respectfully let me know he had a better deal, and that Capela was Atlanta bound. He would always get back to me, and never left me in limbo regardless of whether or not a trade could be consummated.

I'm also solid in communications with NewEra. So I know for a fact that BK agreed to a major deal with him, as well. I won't speak on the moving parts in this one, out of respect for the confidentiality element between NewEra and I. But the deal was there and in place, to the point it altered my perspective and my planning for this offseason.

Smash3 and I, are also good money. As you all know, we completed a Bagley/Nunn deal at the turn of the new league season. As such, since I was in communication with him, and with BK, in independent negotiations, I know for a fact Tobias Harris was due to be heading Portland's way.

I say all that to say this. I'd like to think I’m good with the vast majority of GMs here. I firmly believe in honoring ones word when a deal is agreed to in principle. Handshake deals should be honored by GMs for credibility purposes alone.

At the same time, I do not view this situation as a flaw in our trade protocols, at all. The system we have in place works like a well-oiled machine. Bish has come to the rescue countless times on deals that were agreed upon, but could not be processed, for a myriad of reasons. Issues such as cap implications, pick discrepancies, roster spots, Exempt List player issues, etc.

Therefore, it would simply be inefficient to consider agreements between GMs "official." Quite frankly, a deal is not official until it has been agreed to by all parties, sent in by all parties to bish via PM, and subsequently announced in the discussion thread. Anything outside of that is unofficial and premature, rendering it incapable of being considered an official trade transaction.

I have a lot of respect for all parties involved. So I'm torn because, while I know these discussions took place and were even agreed upon, these trades were not sent in to Bish, and they weren't announced, due to BK's disappearance. However, what I won't do, is speculate on why BK is no longer active here.

As for me, I always do my best to ensure I follow through with my word on any deal I wholeheartedly agree to. Please believe I will follow through, once I give my trade agreement to another GM in PM. I would never disappear on this competition or this group. Some say it's just a game to pass the time and enjoy the sport we all love. But to me it's bigger than that. It's a brother/sisterhood (wdup Greenie). We laugh, talk wild to eachother, fall out, and come back together good money, as if nothing ever happened.

If I ever disappear weeks/months with no word, best believe I‘m either dead, gravely ill, or incarcerated.

Lastly, I gave my word to NewEra I would not allow my prior knowledge of the moving parts involved with his trade to influence my vote. I have no idea why BK never sent in his confirmation(s) to Bish. But before I send in my vote, I do need clarification on one crucial development.

NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

I’d like clarification on the timeline of the enlarged. I understand BK disappeared by the time of the official turn of the new league year on July 11th. But my question to Bish is, many of us (myself included) attempted to send agreed deals in even earlier, on or closer to July 1st. Yet we were ultimately told, any official deals have to be resubmitted to the commissioner on July 11th. With that said, did BK ever make any prior attempts to send any of these aforementioned 3 deals to you? Was he ever told they'd have to be resubmitted at the official turnover of the new league season?

Spoiler:

Initially, I came on with my mind made up thinking I was going to vote to allow the deals as long as they were provable, legal, and on an all or none basis. However, after reading through the responses, I really can see the point that many, if not all, of us have made handshake deals that could not yet be confirmed for one reason or another, some even months in advance, I think we all knew (at least I did) that we were operating fully on trust and could potentially get burned with our only recourse and comfort would be in knowing that the GM who backed out would have a hard time getting anyone to deal with him in the future. I certainly have some second thoughts.

Really hard decision, but I'm going to stick with my intitial instinct. If:
1. There are screenshots provided of the PM chain showing the deal with all details agreed to by both parties
2. The deals are legal according to BAF rules
3. All of the disputed deals meet 1 and 2.

Then I'm going to vote yes to allowing the deals.

If even one of the deals doesn't meet the criteria then I think all three should not be allowed. If we are going to operate under the assumption that BK intended on going through with the deals, I think it's fair to operate on the assumption that his moves were interdependent. If one is disallowed, the others break down. I think it needs to be all or nothing.

Spoiler:

Good question!
BK approved other trades as these 3 confirmations were still outstanding? That changes the fact pattern a bit

First off I read 2010's post picturing this:

Watch on YouTube

Chills...and I agree with everything and appreciate the thought he and most here have put into this. There are no right/wrong answers for this bad situation.


More importantly, the last PM I received from BK was on July 1st, 10 days before our season opened. He did tell me about the trade he was working on with smash but the trade he presented to me was not a legal one. He asked if the trade he and smash were working on was legal, I told him there were problems with it he responded once thanking me and that was the last time I heard from him. Prior to that, the last I heard from him was June 25th when he voted on the rule change proposals and let me know about a decision on his EL player. I did not tell him he had to resubmit the deal on July 11th because the last deal he sent was not legal. He never PM'd me any deal with either ribs or NewEra. NewEra has provided me with a screenshot of their accepted deal.

I'd get into a fox hole with 2010 Lead me into battle!

As far as your post below bish the below even re-affirms my stance of even though it was completely sh*tty what happened to NE, Ribs, and Smash trades aren't official until both GM's send approval to you so that you can properly vet them through our legal system (salary restrictions, draft pick restrictions, exempt rule restrictions, and any reason a trade wouldn't be approved). Since no one is perfect I myself have submitted a trade that was not legal before. I think 2010 has made a comment that you have come back many times to even have people re-work accepted trades because they weren't legal. That is why we have this official approval process.

Therefore my stance is that this process is pretty solid in that you never got any approval from BK that he was accepting the deals so the trades are not "official" in my eyes.

[BowlRips]

Spoiler:

I've been tied up but can finally speak my piece on this situation.

BK has always been solid with me. We've done big trades in the past like the KAT blockbuster. As such we communicated frequently via PM up until right before his disappearance, and even on WhatsApp many times previously.

We discussed deals all the time. I know first hand that he agreed to deal Capela to ribs. How so? Because I was initially targeting Capela, and BK respectfully let me know he had a better deal, and that Capela was Atlanta bound. He would always get back to me, and never left me in limbo regardless of whether or not a trade could be consummated.

I'm also solid in communications with NewEra. So I know for a fact that BK agreed to a major deal with him, as well. I won't speak on the moving parts in this one, out of respect for the confidentiality element between NewEra and I. But the deal was there and in place, to the point it altered my perspective and my planning for this offseason.

Smash3 and I, are also good money. As you all know, we completed a Bagley/Nunn deal at the turn of the new league season. As such, since I was in communication with him, and with BK, in independent negotiations, I know for a fact Tobias Harris was due to be heading Portland's way.

I say all that to say this. I'd like to think I’m good with the vast majority of GMs here. I firmly believe in honoring ones word when a deal is agreed to in principle. Handshake deals should be honored by GMs for credibility purposes alone.

At the same time, I do not view this situation as a flaw in our trade protocols, at all. The system we have in place works like a well-oiled machine. Bish has come to the rescue countless times on deals that were agreed upon, but could not be processed, for a myriad of reasons. Issues such as cap implications, pick discrepancies, roster spots, Exempt List player issues, etc.

Therefore, it would simply be inefficient to consider agreements between GMs "official." Quite frankly, a deal is not official until it has been agreed to by all parties, sent in by all parties to bish via PM, and subsequently announced in the discussion thread. Anything outside of that is unofficial and premature, rendering it incapable of being considered an official trade transaction.

I have a lot of respect for all parties involved. So I'm torn because, while I know these discussions took place and were even agreed upon, these trades were not sent in to Bish, and they weren't announced, due to BK's disappearance. However, what I won't do, is speculate on why BK is no longer active here.

As for me, I always do my best to ensure I follow through with my word on any deal I wholeheartedly agree to. Please believe I will follow through, once I give my trade agreement to another GM in PM. I would never disappear on this competition or this group. Some say it's just a game to pass the time and enjoy the sport we all love. But to me it's bigger than that. It's a brother/sisterhood (wdup Greenie). We laugh, talk wild to eachother, fall out, and come back together good money, as if nothing ever happened.

If I ever disappear weeks/months with no word, best believe I‘m either dead, gravely ill, or incarcerated.

Lastly, I gave my word to NewEra I would not allow my prior knowledge of the moving parts involved with his trade to influence my vote. I have no idea why BK never sent in his confirmation(s) to Bish. But before I send in my vote, I do need clarification on one crucial development.

NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

I’d like clarification on the timeline of the enlarged. I understand BK disappeared by the time of the official turn of the new league year on July 11th. But my question to Bish is, many of us (myself included) attempted to send agreed deals in even earlier, on or closer to July 1st. Yet we were ultimately told, any official deals have to be resubmitted to the commissioner on July 11th. With that said, did BK ever make any prior attempts to send any of these aforementioned 3 deals to you? Was he ever told they'd have to be resubmitted at the official turnover of the new league season?

Spoiler:

Initially, I came on with my mind made up thinking I was going to vote to allow the deals as long as they were provable, legal, and on an all or none basis. However, after reading through the responses, I really can see the point that many, if not all, of us have made handshake deals that could not yet be confirmed for one reason or another, some even months in advance, I think we all knew (at least I did) that we were operating fully on trust and could potentially get burned with our only recourse and comfort would be in knowing that the GM who backed out would have a hard time getting anyone to deal with him in the future. I certainly have some second thoughts.

Really hard decision, but I'm going to stick with my intitial instinct. If:
1. There are screenshots provided of the PM chain showing the deal with all details agreed to by both parties
2. The deals are legal according to BAF rules
3. All of the disputed deals meet 1 and 2.

Then I'm going to vote yes to allowing the deals.

If even one of the deals doesn't meet the criteria then I think all three should not be allowed. If we are going to operate under the assumption that BK intended on going through with the deals, I think it's fair to operate on the assumption that his moves were interdependent. If one is disallowed, the others break down. I think it needs to be all or nothing.

Spoiler:

Good question!
BK approved other trades as these 3 confirmations were still outstanding? That changes the fact pattern a bit

First off I read 2010's post picturing this:

Watch on YouTube

Chills...and I agree with everything and appreciate the thought he and most here have put into this. There are no right/wrong answers for this bad situation.


More importantly, the last PM I received from BK was on July 1st, 10 days before our season opened. He did tell me about the trade he was working on with smash but the trade he presented to me was not a legal one. He asked if the trade he and smash were working on was legal, I told him there were problems with it he responded once thanking me and that was the last time I heard from him. Prior to that, the last I heard from him was June 25th when he voted on the rule change proposals and let me know about a decision on his EL player. I did not tell him he had to resubmit the deal on July 11th because the last deal he sent was not legal. He never PM'd me any deal with either ribs or NewEra. NewEra has provided me with a screenshot of their accepted deal.

and when did those 3 GMs claim they reached agreements with BK?

[bishnykfan]

and when did those 3 GMs claim they reached agreements with BK?

NewEra sent me his confirmation on July 11th the day we reopened the league year and allowed transactions. I don't believe that ribs or Smash ever even sent me their completed trades with BK at that time. I learned of their trades later on either in the discussion thread or a later PM sent to me after NewEra's initial post explaining his situation.

[2010]

I was initially inclined to vote FOR these trades to be passed and I voiced that sentiment in private to NewEra. Mostly because I am big on the code of GM's honoring their handshake deals in best practices, and in good faith.

But upon hearing more details and the timeline of events from the commissioner, I think the right thing to do is to reverse course. Despite my personal views on honoring the code of GM-to-GM unofficial agreements, I am voting AGAINST these three trades for the following reasons:

• The commissioner has confirmed on July 1, 2020 during the trade moratorium, BK reached out to him with an inquiry (Miami | Portland) as per the legality of a potential deal. He did not reach out submitting an attempt for a trade to be processed. Upon inquiry he was informed the scenario would not be legal and he never followed-up with an attempt to submit a formal trade that fell within legal parameters. Therefore, the commissioner felt no need to inform him to resubmit the trade on Saturday, July 11th 2020 when the league's new season officially turned over

• BK also never submitted an inquiry, nor trade to the commissioner for the Miami | Atlanta and/or Miami | Golden State trade scenarios. So, as far as I can see, although those deals were agreed to in principle GM-to-GM, they were never pending trades submitted for commissioner review. The league has to receive the trade paperwork for a deal to be pending

• Although we frown upon GM's breaking handshake agreements, it would be presumptuous to assume BK doesn't reserve the right to change his mind and just deal with whatever backlash and repercussions may come with that choice. He simply may have been willing to say he decided against those deals upon further review, and down to take the bullets and periodical blackballing that resulted until he regained trust in his word to be bond

• As Depalma2002 stated, it makes sense that if one deal is to be passed, they all should be passed. Smash3 of the Portland TrailBlazers has already moved on, which makes this no longer feasible. Likewise, ribs of the Atlanta Hawks is looking for closure more than anything, so he can get on with his offseason roster construction. As much as I sympathize with NewEra of the Golden State Warriors, he having lost the most in this entire ordeal, removing all emotions from the decision, it is clear cut these moves were tied together. So if one trade doesn't pass, none should pass. If that ship has sailed for one, it must sail for all

• Going forward, this scenario will prove as a case study for the importance of constructing deals dependent on each other as multi-team trades whenever possible. Get creative or require additional compensation for requests to "stair-step" deals

• Lastly, it's in the league's best interest to remove all gray areas and keep the trade process, and system, as black and white as possible. The letter of the land must remain that a trade isn't a trade until all parties have agreed, sent in their agreements to Bish, had him vet the trade for legality, and formally announced it in the discussion thread

The facts compel me to vote AGAINST the trades.

If/when a new GM is appointed to the Miami Heat, he or she can re-engage in trade negotiations with the affected parties, should they choose to revisit it.

[mpharris36]

I was initially inclined to vote FOR these trades to be passed and I voiced that sentiment in private to NewEra. Mostly because I am a big on the code of GM's honoring their handshake deals in best practices and in good faith.

But upon hearing more details and the timeline of events from the commissioner, I think the right thing to do is to reverse course. Despite my personal views on honoring the code of GM-to-GM unofficial agreements, I am voting AGAINST these three trades for the following reasons:

• The commissioner has confirmed on July 1, 2020 during the trade moratorium, BK reached out to him with an inquiry (Miami | Portland) as per the legality of a potential deal. He did not reach out submitting an attempt for a trade to be processed. Upon inquiry he was informed the scenario would not be legal and he never followed-up with an attempt to submit a formal trade that fell within legal parameters. Therefore, the commissioner felt no need to inform him to resubmit the trade on Saturday, July 11th 2020 when the league's new season officially turned over

• BK also never submitted an inquiry, nor trade to the commissioner for the Miami | Atlanta and/or Miami | Golden State trade scenarios. So as far as I can see, although those deals were agreed to in principle GM-to-GM, they were never pending trades submitted for commissioner review. The league has to receive the trade paperwork for a deal to be pending

• Although we frown upon GM's breaking handshake agreements, it would be presumptuous to assume BK doesn't reserve the right to change his mind and just deal with whatever backlash and repercussions may come with that choice. He simply may have been willing to say he decided against those deals upon further review and been willing to take the bullets and periodical blackballing that resulted until he regained trust in his word to be bond

• As Depalma2002 stated, it makes sense that if one deal is to be passed, they all should be passed. Smash3 of the Portland TrailBlazers has already moved on, which makes this no longer feasible. Likewise, ribs of the Atlanta Hawks is looking for closure more than anything so he can get on with his offseason roster construction. As much as I sympathize with NewEra of the Golden State Warriors, he having lost the most in this entire ordeal, removing all emotions from the decision, it is clear cut these moves were tied together. So if one trade doesn't pass, none should pass. If that ship has sailed for one, it must sail for all

• Going forward, this scenario will prove as a case study for the importance of constructing deals dependent on eachother as multi-team trades whenever possible. Get creative or require additional compensation for requests to "stair-step" deals

• Lastly, it's in the leagues best interest to remove all gray areas and keep the trade process and system as black and white and possible. The letter of the land must remain that a trade isn't a trade until all parties have agreed, sent in their agreements to Bish, had him vet the trade for legality, and formally announced it in the discussion thread

The facts compel me to vote AGAINST the trades.

If/when a new GM is appointed to the Miami Heat, he or she can re-engage in trade negotiations with the affected parties, should they choose to revisit it.

I picture 2010 like...

[El Poochio]

After reading more about it I am changing my vote from no to HELL FCKING NO

[NewEra]

BK told me the Tobias deal fell through, so he moved on from it. I have proof of that (And can submit to Commissioner if it will affect your vote). So Smash’s deal should have absolutely nothing to do with mine, because BK moved on from it after Bish informed him it wasn’t legal. Again I have proof.

[Context]

The only thing that I am going to say is this...My time is extremely valuable to me. I have learned to use every second of it with
precision. With that said, when we deal- once we quote the pm and confirm it- I expect a deal to be completed.

Yes, I understand its not official--well if there is something legally wrong with it and it gets sent back and we have to fix it so be it
but I just dont have the time to worried about if a gm is going to change his mind. It's my choice but no one has
any idea how much of my time I give this game that I could devote to doing what many of you consider "more important things".

Not to mention, I move quickly and I have to in order to satisfy other commitments I have in this world.

This is not something that I want to debate- its just to let my fellow gms know -this is what comes with
the benefits of my "getting you players" "pming gms till they respond -to get you players" "constantly checking my phone or having someone check my phone to see if a pm hit" looking at this screen constantly which is not good for your eyes
to play this game and trust me I can go on and on...

as far as Bk- out of respect to the GMs and because I dont want to create any more negativity that we need
I will keep my feelings on this to myself when in actually- I truly believe I should be able to express them...

Shout out to all of you guys- I really consider you and me as part of a brotherhood- even if some of you dont
take it that serious...

[NewEra]

Based on my private conversations with Ribs, He still has all the moving parts that were supposed to be in his deal with BK, so essentially he hasn’t “moved on” and would still very much PREFER for his deal to be approved. If after all the voting, it is ruled that these deals won’t be approved then of course we’d all like to close this case and get on with the off-season, but Ribs has yet to officially “move on.”

Ribs, I don’t wanna speak for you so please acknowledge if I am I right or wrong.

[El Poochio]

If that "Detroit confirms" was sent to Bish instead of the trade partner GM yeah that would mean confirming the trade

one thing i will say...we need to improve on this system...my suggestion is - once you send out a team "confirmation" its valid as long as it meets the legal requirements through the commissioner. This saves a ton of time and makes things more efficient...

We will not be doing that. Trades are not and have never been official until both parties have sent confirmations to me and I've made sure that all the numbers work and all the parts of the trade are ok to be in the deal. I can't count how many trades I have had sent to me that did not work for one reason or another where I had to send it back to the GMs to be reworked before approval. Having GMs confirm to each other makes nothing official any more than two actual NBA GMs agreeing to something on a phone call does. The amount of confusion and work that will potentially add for me is not something we can have in the league.

As far as this situation goes, I do feel that NewEra, smash and ribs all had deals and had no reason to think that BK would not be there when the new season began. I have spoken with NewEra on this many times over the past couple of weeks and told him because this is an extraordinary situation that his case can be presented to the board. NewEra (as well as ribs and smash) has a gripe, but as I told him, without BK's confirmation to me via PM, there is nothing I can do to force the trade through. NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

This situation is awful any way you look at it. Either something bad has happened to BK, which means BaF means nothing, or he's ok and just quit without any communication and left three GMs in the lurch. **** situation all around.

Right now we will need 14 GMs to approve these deals. As far as I can see we have:

FOR (4)- Det, LAC, Mem, NY

AGAINST (9)- Bos, Cha, Cle, Den, LAK, NO, Orl, SA, Tor

This is it. So NewEra knowingly and willingly took that risk, for whatever reason I have no idea of, and cant even live with it consequences. What is there to even vote for? Yall put Bish in a tough spot cuz he is too nice to blow you guys off completely

Starting to lose some respect for vulture GMs tbh, if this somehow passes it is called cheating in my books

[NewEra]

one thing i will say...we need to improve on this system...my suggestion is - once you send out a team "confirmation" its valid as long as it meets the legal requirements through the commissioner. This saves a ton of time and makes things more efficient...

We will not be doing that. Trades are not and have never been official until both parties have sent confirmations to me and I've made sure that all the numbers work and all the parts of the trade are ok to be in the deal. I can't count how many trades I have had sent to me that did not work for one reason or another where I had to send it back to the GMs to be reworked before approval. Having GMs confirm to each other makes nothing official any more than two actual NBA GMs agreeing to something on a phone call does. The amount of confusion and work that will potentially add for me is not something we can have in the league.

As far as this situation goes, I do feel that NewEra, smash and ribs all had deals and had no reason to think that BK would not be there when the new season began. I have spoken with NewEra on this many times over the past couple of weeks and told him because this is an extraordinary situation that his case can be presented to the board. NewEra (as well as ribs and smash) has a gripe, but as I told him, without BK's confirmation to me via PM, there is nothing I can do to force the trade through. NewEra worked on that huge trade where each piece was dependent on the next so I do feel that his offseason was effected more than usual. However, I also let him know that BK had not approved the trade before I posted all of his other trades. Seeing that there was no reason to question BK at the time he wanted to go through with the other parts of his deals.

This situation is awful any way you look at it. Either something bad has happened to BK, which means BaF means nothing, or he's ok and just quit without any communication and left three GMs in the lurch. **** situation all around.

Right now we will need 14 GMs to approve these deals. As far as I can see we have:

FOR (4)- Det, LAC, Mem, NY

AGAINST (9)- Bos, Cha, Cle, Den, LAK, NO, Orl, SA, Tor

This is it. So NewEra knowingly and willingly took that risk, for whatever reason I have no idea of, and cant even live with it consequences. What is there to even vote for? Yall put Bish in a tough spot cuz he is too nice to blow you guys off completely

Starting to lose some respect for vulture GMs tbh, if this somehow passes it is called cheating in my books

Pooch, you need to understand something. Because apparently you feel like I’d be silly enough to make ALL my moves dependent upon my trade with BK. Well I didn’t. I would never do that. Trading Westbrook had nothing to do with the BK deal. Trading Gary Harris had nothing to do with the BK deal. Bish knows this as well.

My main beef is the simple fact that he and I agreed on a trade he confirmed with me, and then out of no where he disappears. Not backed out of it, but disappeared. That has NEVER happened, and that’s why I’m asking my community of GMs to vote because right before he went MIA I got his approval. Simple as that.