Countdown to NBA Draft: Prospect Talk

[melomax]

WCS will be a good NBA player.

Just not the top 5 player from this draft.

But Winslow is!!!!

[Capn'O]

I love it.

Stein
Barf
Early
Timmy
Langston.

ya'll on that good chit tonight.

This is what the fans want,


We're gonna trade Melo and build around whoever we draft.

So you traded Melo...

...Where's the European Kevin Garnett on your roster?

[Thugger HBC]

So centers are either scorers or not and those are the only two classifications.

Obviously that tells us nothing.

Luc and Bill played because they could score. The threat was what Phil wanted. Same reason he signed Jason Smith.

WCS is not a threat and other than Will Perdue or another scrub I'm forgetting who played little, Phil seems to not value WCS type centers. Didn't even let Tyson come back.

He may draft him but he's different from Luc or Bill -- I would say totally different.

Phil cited Chandler as the type of big man he wants to add, citing that with "so many screen/rolls, so many threes" in the game now, you need a big man who can contend with all that.

[Greenie]

ya'll on that good chit tonight.

This is what the fans want,


We're gonna trade Melo and build around whoever we draft.

So you traded Melo...

...Where's the European Kevin Garnett on your roster?

We traded Melo for a bag of chips.

[Worst_to_First]

Chad Ford now saying 5 guys could go #1 in this draft. Porzingis elevates himself to 'Tier 1'. Thought of compiling his thoughts on one post, whether you guys consider him credible or not.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/51805

TWolves
It's a bit early to say anything definitively. They're doing their homework. Okafor seems to be the guy that Flip favors. But that could chance with workouts and interviews. The workouts will be one-on-none. But still, I think it will come down to that for Minnesota ... and it's not just Okafor vs. Towns. I hear D'Angelo Russell in the mix there too.

Lakers
Same situation. They're digging ... If Towns is there at 2. That's a lock. If it's Okafor, I think it's up in the air between Okafor, Russell and Mudiay. All three in the mix. But not strong feeling right now which guy it would be. I also hear they are digging on Porzingis, though I doubt they have the guts to take him that high.

Sixers
If D'Angelo Russell is there, I think Philly will take him. They were on Mudiay early, but I think Russell became their guy late. If he's not there Mudiay is a strong option. But Hezonja won't be out of the question there. And on talent, he's close.

Knicks
Be patient. Take whoever falls. I think there are five guys worthy of the No. 1 pick. At four you'll have your choice of two of them. Of the five guys, I don't believe Towns or Russell will be there. But there are scenarios where Okafor, Mudiay or Porzingis will be there. And I hear that Justise Winslow has some strong support in New York. And two different sources today told me the Knicks are also looking strongly at Willie Cauley-Stein. They want a strong defender in New York which explains the Winslow and Cauley-Stein interest. Of course, I also think there's a good chance they just trade this pick if the right veteran comes around. But for me, I think they really should keep it. Lots of talent with long-term potential where they are drafting.

Magic
Porzingis is a good fit and to me personally, a no brainer if he's still on the board. Willie Cauley-Stein is another fit talent wise (they really need a rim protector) but I'm not sure he fits the personality profile that Rob Hennigan has been following. Justise Winslow and Mario Hezonja are other options. Winslow fits the mold -- though I'm not sure adding another guy who isn't a lights out shooter is the move. Hezonja has the talent, but again, I worry about the personality profile. Orlando drafts a very specific type of personality.

Kings
(Mudiay's) spots are Lakers at 2, Philly at 3, Knicks at 4 or Kings at 6. I've had a few teams suggest to me he could slide further, but I think that's being planted as more of a scare tactic to get him to workout more places. The one hesitation on the Kings. Who is making the decisions there with this pick? Pete D'Alessandro? Vlade Divac? George Karl? Every time I talk to someone there I get a slightly different story. And I had someone from the Kings pass along this nugget in Chicago. That the front office wanted to take Elfrid Payton at No. 8. last year but were overruled by ownership, who wanted Nik Stauskas. Now, that could be classic CYA from the front office. Payton was who they should've taken and now, a year later, they're making the case. But if that's true, than Vivek may be the person who is ultimately deciding who they draft. In short, it's really hard to have a good feel what's happening in Sacramento. So many voices.

Nuggets
I could see them dealing (Lawson and Faried) -- especially Lawson. And a Lawson to Sacramento deal does make some sense for both teams. Kings are in a win now mode and Lawson is big upgrade at the point. The Nuggets are treading water. Adding two lottery picks may help jump start a rebuild. As far as draft goes, I hear Denver's in the ... let's just see who falls to us. Winslow? Mudiay? Hezonja? They clean up the scraps.

[Capn'O]

This is what the fans want,


We're gonna trade Melo and build around whoever we draft.

So you traded Melo...

...Where's the European Kevin Garnett on your roster?

We traded Melo for a bag of chips.

Jalapeno?

[Greenie]

So you traded Melo...

...Where's the European Kevin Garnett on your roster?

We traded Melo for a bag of chips.

Jalapeno?

Doritos Sweet Chili

[Capn'O]

We traded Melo for a bag of chips.

Jalapeno?

Doritos Sweet Chili

Where the **** are Phil's negotiating skills? I QUIT on this franchise.

[Capn'O]

Jalapeno chips are delicious.

[Greenie]

Jalapeno?

Doritos Sweet Chili

Where the **** are Phil's negotiating skills? I QUIT on this franchise.

I tried to tell him but he was hell bent on clearing cap to re-sign Barf.

[92Knicksfan93]

i can believe it because i don't really trust phil

because he acquired Calderon?

because he seemingly is worried about more then just making sure the knicks are good. he's worried about how the triangle is perceived and he mocks how teams currently play the game. phil only wants to win if it's his way.

Phil Jackson Teams and 3Pt Shooting Differential

A) Chicago Bulls

1990-1991: (Offense) 155 (16th)/424 (22nd) 36% (3rd)...(Defense) 190 (16th)/626 (20th) 30.4% (4th)

1991-1992: (Offense) 138 (21st)/454 (21st) 30.4% (22nd)...(Defense) 218 (20th)/657 (22nd) 33.2% (12th)

1992-1993: (Offense) 244 (15th)/669 (14th) 36.5% (2nd)...(Defense) 247 (14th)/685 (7th) 36.1% (26th)

1993-1994: (Offense) 233 (20th)/659 (22nd) 35.4% (4th)...(Defense) 252 (7th)/780 (10th) 32.3% (9th)

1994-1995: (Offense) 443 (13th)/1187 (16th) 37.3% (8th)...(Defense) 401 (6th)/1150 (5th) 34.9% (9th)

1995-1996: (Offense) 544 (10th)/1349 (15th) 40.3% (3rd)...(Defense) 437 (3rd)/1259 (10th) 35% (6th)

1996-1997: (Offense) 523 (12th)/1403 (11th) 37.3% (6th)...(Defense) 471 (8th)/1408 (18th) 33.5% (1st)

1997-1998: (Offense) 311 (17th)/962 (14th) 32.3% (23rd)...(Defense) 329 (6th)/1022 (12th) 32.2% (4th)

B) Los Angeles Lakers

1999-2000: (Offense) 344 (18th)/1047 (17th) 32.9% (25th)...(Defense) 372 (9th)/1142 (18th) 32.6% (1st)

2000-2001: (Offense) 439 (11th)/1275 (9th) 34.4% (20th)...(Defense) 413 (18th)/1168 (20th) 35.4% (15th)

2001-2002: (Offense) 510 (6th)/1439 (7th) 35.4% (13th)...(Defense) 399 (8th)/1259 (21st) 31.7% (1st)

2002-2003: (Offense) 486 (8th)/1367 (7th) 35.6% (10th)...(Defense) 465 (25th)/1223 (16th) 38% (29th)

2003-2004: (Offense) 365 (22nd)/1115 (20th) 32.7% (25th)...(Defense) 420 (14th)/1247 (18th) 33.7% (7th)

2005-2006: (Offense) 552 (8th)/1583 (5th) 34.9% (19th)...(Defense) 474 (15th)/1342 (17th) 35.3 (12th)

2006-2007: (Offense) 608 (5th)/1724 (4th) 35.3% (16th)...(Defense) 523 (20th)/1462 (19th) 35.8% (18th)

2007-2008: (Offense) 662 (5th)/1751 (6th) 37.8% (6th)...(Defense) 554 (18th)/1531 (18th) 36.2% (15th)

2008-2009: (Offense) 547 (17th)/1516 (15th) 36.1% (19th)...(Defense) 586 (24th)/1700 (28th) 34.5% (3rd)

2009-2010: (offense) 532 (13th)/1562 (10th) 34.1% (24th)...(defense) 520 (11th)/1585 (25th) 32.8% (1st)

2010-2011: (offense) 524 (12th)/1487 (14th) 35.2% (17th)...(defense) 558 (20th)/1668 (28th) 33.5% (3rd)


Looks to me like Phil Jackson's teams understood quite well the importance of the 3pt shot. It's not about how many you chuck up, but the quality of the shot based on the shooter taking the shot, whether or not the shot is open vs contested, and whether the shot is early in possession or the result of ball movement etc. Also a takeaway from this, you'll notice that 9 of Jackson's 13 NBA Finals teams ranked inside the top 10 in 3pt FG % allowed, only 3 times out of 13 trips to the NBA Finals did his teams rank 15th or lower in 3pt FG% allowed (93, 01, and 08).

Another takeaway from this historical review is that Jackson coached teams played to the strengths of their personnel (the Bulls teams were more athletic, played above the rim, were a deadly low post/mid range team, and shot efficiently from 3pt range, while the Lakers teams tended to have better shooters so they attempted more 3s and used it as a key weapon in their offense) as well as embraced a style of play that was more likely to win them games within their conference (the East was school yard knock down drag em out while the west has been the more wide open uptempo conference).

The triangle offense and 3pt shooting are not mortal enemies. Jackson is correct, penetration is the first principle-and that holds true regardless of system a team uses on offense. I seriously wish SLOAN Heads and Phil Jackson would stop useless bickering over nonsense when their offensive strategies comes down to the same thing: ball movement, penetration, floor spacing, have your best shooters taking jump shots, and finding open looks at the basket.

[DickGrayson]

WCS will be a good NBA player.

Just not the top 5 player from this draft.

But Winslow is!!!!

Yes indeed he is. Winslow is definitely a top 2-4 talent in this draft. No one played better than him in the second half of the NCAA season. A lot of scouts love his game. I wouldn't be surprised to see teams trying to trade up to trade him. Reminds me of a brute Sprewell. Winslow has room to grow to develop his mid range game. I remember James Harden didn't have a mid range in Arizona State but that didn't stop him from producing in the NBA. If I was the Lakers, my draft choices would come down to Mudiay or Winslow. That team desperately needs a warrior for their future.

[DickGrayson]

Chad Ford now saying 5 guys could go #1 in this draft. Porzingis elevates himself to 'Tier 1'. Thought of compiling his thoughts on one post, whether you guys consider him credible or not.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/51805

TWolves
It's a bit early to say anything definitively. They're doing their homework. Okafor seems to be the guy that Flip favors. But that could chance with workouts and interviews. The workouts will be one-on-none. But still, I think it will come down to that for Minnesota ... and it's not just Okafor vs. Towns. I hear D'Angelo Russell in the mix there too.

Lakers
Same situation. They're digging ... If Towns is there at 2. That's a lock. If it's Okafor, I think it's up in the air between Okafor, Russell and Mudiay. All three in the mix. But not strong feeling right now which guy it would be. I also hear they are digging on Porzingis, though I doubt they have the guts to take him that high.

Sixers
If D'Angelo Russell is there, I think Philly will take him. They were on Mudiay early, but I think Russell became their guy late. If he's not there Mudiay is a strong option. But Hezonja won't be out of the question there. And on talent, he's close.

Knicks
Be patient. Take whoever falls. I think there are five guys worthy of the No. 1 pick. At four you'll have your choice of two of them. Of the five guys, I don't believe Towns or Russell will be there. But there are scenarios where Okafor, Mudiay or Porzingis will be there. And I hear that Justise Winslow has some strong support in New York. And two different sources today told me the Knicks are also looking strongly at Willie Cauley-Stein. They want a strong defender in New York which explains the Winslow and Cauley-Stein interest. Of course, I also think there's a good chance they just trade this pick if the right veteran comes around. But for me, I think they really should keep it. Lots of talent with long-term potential where they are drafting.

Magic
Porzingis is a good fit and to me personally, a no brainer if he's still on the board. Willie Cauley-Stein is another fit talent wise (they really need a rim protector) but I'm not sure he fits the personality profile that Rob Hennigan has been following. Justise Winslow and Mario Hezonja are other options. Winslow fits the mold -- though I'm not sure adding another guy who isn't a lights out shooter is the move. Hezonja has the talent, but again, I worry about the personality profile. Orlando drafts a very specific type of personality.

Kings
(Mudiay's) spots are Lakers at 2, Philly at 3, Knicks at 4 or Kings at 6. I've had a few teams suggest to me he could slide further, but I think that's being planted as more of a scare tactic to get him to workout more places. The one hesitation on the Kings. Who is making the decisions there with this pick? Pete D'Alessandro? Vlade Divac? George Karl? Every time I talk to someone there I get a slightly different story. And I had someone from the Kings pass along this nugget in Chicago. That the front office wanted to take Elfrid Payton at No. 8. last year but were overruled by ownership, who wanted Nik Stauskas. Now, that could be classic CYA from the front office. Payton was who they should've taken and now, a year later, they're making the case. But if that's true, than Vivek may be the person who is ultimately deciding who they draft. In short, it's really hard to have a good feel what's happening in Sacramento. So many voices.

Nuggets
I could see them dealing (Lawson and Faried) -- especially Lawson. And a Lawson to Sacramento deal does make some sense for both teams. Kings are in a win now mode and Lawson is big upgrade at the point. The Nuggets are treading water. Adding two lottery picks may help jump start a rebuild. As far as draft goes, I hear Denver's in the ... let's just see who falls to us. Winslow? Mudiay? Hezonja? They clean up the scraps.

in terms of draft resources who do you trust more, Chad Ford or Jonathan Givony?

[DickGrayson]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/603595656914202624[/tweet]

Apparently people feel like Kevon Looney isn't better than his stats suggest. He may not pan out, but I never rule these type of players out. Tweeners are the new thing in the NBA now, he may find a role for a team somewhere.

[JBreezeNY]

Chad Ford now saying 5 guys could go #1 in this draft. Porzingis elevates himself to 'Tier 1'. Thought of compiling his thoughts on one post, whether you guys consider him credible or not.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/51805

TWolves
It's a bit early to say anything definitively. They're doing their homework. Okafor seems to be the guy that Flip favors. But that could chance with workouts and interviews. The workouts will be one-on-none. But still, I think it will come down to that for Minnesota ... and it's not just Okafor vs. Towns. I hear D'Angelo Russell in the mix there too.

Lakers
Same situation. They're digging ... If Towns is there at 2. That's a lock. If it's Okafor, I think it's up in the air between Okafor, Russell and Mudiay. All three in the mix. But not strong feeling right now which guy it would be. I also hear they are digging on Porzingis, though I doubt they have the guts to take him that high.

Sixers
If D'Angelo Russell is there, I think Philly will take him. They were on Mudiay early, but I think Russell became their guy late. If he's not there Mudiay is a strong option. But Hezonja won't be out of the question there. And on talent, he's close.

Knicks
Be patient. Take whoever falls. I think there are five guys worthy of the No. 1 pick. At four you'll have your choice of two of them. Of the five guys, I don't believe Towns or Russell will be there. But there are scenarios where Okafor, Mudiay or Porzingis will be there. And I hear that Justise Winslow has some strong support in New York. And two different sources today told me the Knicks are also looking strongly at Willie Cauley-Stein. They want a strong defender in New York which explains the Winslow and Cauley-Stein interest. Of course, I also think there's a good chance they just trade this pick if the right veteran comes around. But for me, I think they really should keep it. Lots of talent with long-term potential where they are drafting.

Magic
Porzingis is a good fit and to me personally, a no brainer if he's still on the board. Willie Cauley-Stein is another fit talent wise (they really need a rim protector) but I'm not sure he fits the personality profile that Rob Hennigan has been following. Justise Winslow and Mario Hezonja are other options. Winslow fits the mold -- though I'm not sure adding another guy who isn't a lights out shooter is the move. Hezonja has the talent, but again, I worry about the personality profile. Orlando drafts a very specific type of personality.

Kings
(Mudiay's) spots are Lakers at 2, Philly at 3, Knicks at 4 or Kings at 6. I've had a few teams suggest to me he could slide further, but I think that's being planted as more of a scare tactic to get him to workout more places. The one hesitation on the Kings. Who is making the decisions there with this pick? Pete D'Alessandro? Vlade Divac? George Karl? Every time I talk to someone there I get a slightly different story. And I had someone from the Kings pass along this nugget in Chicago. That the front office wanted to take Elfrid Payton at No. 8. last year but were overruled by ownership, who wanted Nik Stauskas. Now, that could be classic CYA from the front office. Payton was who they should've taken and now, a year later, they're making the case. But if that's true, than Vivek may be the person who is ultimately deciding who they draft. In short, it's really hard to have a good feel what's happening in Sacramento. So many voices.

Nuggets
I could see them dealing (Lawson and Faried) -- especially Lawson. And a Lawson to Sacramento deal does make some sense for both teams. Kings are in a win now mode and Lawson is big upgrade at the point. The Nuggets are treading water. Adding two lottery picks may help jump start a rebuild. As far as draft goes, I hear Denver's in the ... let's just see who falls to us. Winslow? Mudiay? Hezonja? They clean up the scraps.

Please..please...PLEASE can we stop posting about Chad Ford.

[Capn'O]

Doritos Sweet Chili

Where the **** are Phil's negotiating skills? I QUIT on this franchise.

I tried to tell him but he was hell bent on clearing cap to re-sign Barf.

Oh. Ok. I'm back then. We deserve Barf.

[Thugger HBC]

One of the consensus top 4 is gonna fall to 5 or even beyond. it happens quite a bit.

[DickGrayson]

Chad Ford now saying 5 guys could go #1 in this draft. Porzingis elevates himself to 'Tier 1'. Thought of compiling his thoughts on one post, whether you guys consider him credible or not.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/51805

TWolves
It's a bit early to say anything definitively. They're doing their homework. Okafor seems to be the guy that Flip favors. But that could chance with workouts and interviews. The workouts will be one-on-none. But still, I think it will come down to that for Minnesota ... and it's not just Okafor vs. Towns. I hear D'Angelo Russell in the mix there too.

Lakers
Same situation. They're digging ... If Towns is there at 2. That's a lock. If it's Okafor, I think it's up in the air between Okafor, Russell and Mudiay. All three in the mix. But not strong feeling right now which guy it would be. I also hear they are digging on Porzingis, though I doubt they have the guts to take him that high.

Sixers
If D'Angelo Russell is there, I think Philly will take him. They were on Mudiay early, but I think Russell became their guy late. If he's not there Mudiay is a strong option. But Hezonja won't be out of the question there. And on talent, he's close.

Knicks
Be patient. Take whoever falls. I think there are five guys worthy of the No. 1 pick. At four you'll have your choice of two of them. Of the five guys, I don't believe Towns or Russell will be there. But there are scenarios where Okafor, Mudiay or Porzingis will be there. And I hear that Justise Winslow has some strong support in New York. And two different sources today told me the Knicks are also looking strongly at Willie Cauley-Stein. They want a strong defender in New York which explains the Winslow and Cauley-Stein interest. Of course, I also think there's a good chance they just trade this pick if the right veteran comes around. But for me, I think they really should keep it. Lots of talent with long-term potential where they are drafting.

Magic
Porzingis is a good fit and to me personally, a no brainer if he's still on the board. Willie Cauley-Stein is another fit talent wise (they really need a rim protector) but I'm not sure he fits the personality profile that Rob Hennigan has been following. Justise Winslow and Mario Hezonja are other options. Winslow fits the mold -- though I'm not sure adding another guy who isn't a lights out shooter is the move. Hezonja has the talent, but again, I worry about the personality profile. Orlando drafts a very specific type of personality.

Kings
(Mudiay's) spots are Lakers at 2, Philly at 3, Knicks at 4 or Kings at 6. I've had a few teams suggest to me he could slide further, but I think that's being planted as more of a scare tactic to get him to workout more places. The one hesitation on the Kings. Who is making the decisions there with this pick? Pete D'Alessandro? Vlade Divac? George Karl? Every time I talk to someone there I get a slightly different story. And I had someone from the Kings pass along this nugget in Chicago. That the front office wanted to take Elfrid Payton at No. 8. last year but were overruled by ownership, who wanted Nik Stauskas. Now, that could be classic CYA from the front office. Payton was who they should've taken and now, a year later, they're making the case. But if that's true, than Vivek may be the person who is ultimately deciding who they draft. In short, it's really hard to have a good feel what's happening in Sacramento. So many voices.

Nuggets
I could see them dealing (Lawson and Faried) -- especially Lawson. And a Lawson to Sacramento deal does make some sense for both teams. Kings are in a win now mode and Lawson is big upgrade at the point. The Nuggets are treading water. Adding two lottery picks may help jump start a rebuild. As far as draft goes, I hear Denver's in the ... let's just see who falls to us. Winslow? Mudiay? Hezonja? They clean up the scraps.

Please..please...PLEASE can we stop posting about Chad Ford.

Well, it's not like theres any hot news out recently, just 2nd round pick workouts and WCS at #4. I wouldn't say Chad Ford is a reliable source, but he has been a long time NBA Draft insider for a good minute, I read his articles but always end up going back to Jonathan Givony, been a big fan of his work since 2004.

[Fat Kat]

Did Chard Ford literally lay out ever possible scenario for the Knicks? What did he leave out?

[Manhattan Project]

Oh finally made it here through the waves of smoke that are already being deployed.