MeloDrama Part V

[KNIXFAN_83]

Which goes back to my original comment. Let him go and instead we can make great trades with the super assets we have. Anthony's value to the Knicks is greater than letting him go cause you don't want to give him a no trade clause. It's not even close.

Just like the value of unloading Novak's contract and the "potential" of Bargnani was greater than the draft picks we gave up to get him. You're simply wrong. Each value has its limit and Carmelo's demands are exceeding it.

Again if you want to compare Novak to Carmelo Anthony in that context by all means. Carmelo Anthony's demands? Honestly are you part of his inner circle? You know his demands when no one else does and buys every little thing bad said about the guy the minute is said or posted. Why's that?

I don't think it's comparing players as much as it is comparing bad decisions. You can't keep caving to players like this and debilitating the team long term. It comes a point if these guys want the world then maybe they should try to get it from another team. I still think we must sign Melo but at some point this organization must take a stand.


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[Workforce250]

Which goes back to my original comment. Let him go and instead we can make great trades with the super assets we have. Anthony's value to the Knicks is greater than letting him go cause you don't want to give him a no trade clause. It's not even close.

Just like the value of unloading Novak's contract and the "potential" of Bargnani was greater than the draft picks we gave up to get him. You're simply wrong. Each value has its limit and Carmelo's demands are exceeding it.

Again if you want to compare Novak to Carmelo Anthony in that context by all means. Carmelo Anthony's demands? Honestly are you part of his inner circle? You know his demands when no one else does and buys every little thing bad said about the guy the minute is said or posted. Why's that?

awe leave him alone, he's just a rebel rouser. looking to hate even the breaths he breaths..

[BklyntoTNeck]

Madd funny if lebron goes home to cavs and miami replaces bron with melo lol. They would be so terrible lol

Why would Melo go to Miami with a crippled Wade and Bosh? Better off going to any other team he has already visited.

[Rasho Brezec]

This is the same scenario as with the Bargnani trade, trying to diminish the importance of everything to rationalize a bad move and it always turns out to be false.

"Those draft picks are meaningless, they had to be included to get rid of Novak"

"The no-trade clause is not important, players hate us because of this"

It is a completely distorted line of thinking and it always comes back to haunt us. There is a reason why only 4 players had a no-trade clause last season, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett and Nowitzki. They've proven themselves loyal to their teams, they've all won MVP's with them, they've all made them perennial playoff teams and they've all gotten at least to the conference finals with them. Carmelo doesn't meet a single criteria.

Well well. Now there's 1 other story to bash Melo on. Why does this dreary response not surprise me?
I'm 100% certain Patrick Ewing wished he had a no-trade clause in his last contract with the KNicks.

And Patrick Ewing would have deserved one.

[EricAnderson]

People are waiting around on pins and needles for a guy who didn't even make the playoffs last year this isn't bron who changes the balance of power and automatically makes u a contender..I don't see why if he left anyone would be that crushed he's not Ewing or anything who had us win 50 plus every year if he leaves you'll get over it

[LJ4pointplay]

If Chris Paul was a free agent, and we had the cap space and we were able to give him the same contract as Melo (5 years at same cost- just pretend for a moment here, I know CBA disallows it), and Paul was demanding no trade clause (again, just pretend), would you do it?

If the answer is yes, but is no to Melo, then you need to reconsider why you are saying no.

[duetta]

According to Coon's FAQ, no trade clauses are only allowed if the player played for the team for four seasons. Melo has played for us for three full seasons, and one partial season. I am unsure whether the four seasons means four full seasons and I am unable to look through the language in the actual CBA right now. Maybe someone else will feel so inclined though.

Just about to make the same point. He does not have a full four years with the team - so he shouldn't qualify.

[moocow007]

Oh c'mon, yeah maybe he gets the max but maybe he takes a little less it's not a given. Talk about imagination.

Anyway I just want what's best for the team, I don't see how arguing for the Knicks benefit is bad and I don't see how Melo getting every conceivable benefit helps the Knicks position which is the only thing I give a damn about.

What's best for the team is: a) having Carmelo Anthony or b) not having him cause you got a stick up your but about a no trade clause. What do you think is best if the money doesn't matter? Think about it. Cool down, let the testosterone level a bit, and think about it.

First answer the question at what price. That dictates everything else. Because the money always matters.

Really you're asking the wrong guy because to me this looks everything like a typical Yankee signing where they hire the veteran at max dollars and everything looks great for a few years until they break down. I think years four and five will be hideous for us.

The problem here is that Phil Jackson is not going to take the time it would take the Yankees to rebuild. It's why the Yankees haven't when they should have started (what the Yankees could use is a MLB version of Jackson instead of their current FO who's made a muck of things for years now). Like I've said, my preference would have been for a rebuild. That was BEFORE Phil Jackson took control. Situations change. Jackson isn't going to rebuild, he might literally drop dead before it happens. Nor do you bring in Jackson to rebuild. So given circumstances the way they are, it's now in the best interests of the Knicks to bring Anthony back. And I would expect (hope?) that the expected significant salary cap increase in the next year or two will leverage and ease whatever contract they resign him to. OBVIOUSLY I wish he would take $10 million a year and whatever...but reality isn't fantasy. Whatever he signs for, let's hope for some break for the Knicks...but again...a no trade clause shouldn't be the show stopper.

[LJ4pointplay]

People are waiting around on pins and needles for a guy who didn't even make the playoffs last year this isn't bron who changes the balance of power and automatically makes u a contender..I don't see why if he left anyone would be that crushed he's not Ewing or anything who had us win 50 plus every year if he leaves you'll get over it

He' made the playoffs 10 out of 11 seasons in the league...

[Mr Rabbit]

Knicks officially hired Rambis as associate head coach. I wonder if he asked for a no trade clause?

[moocow007]

If Chris Paul was a free agent, and we had the cap space and we were able to give him the same contract as Melo (5 years at same cost- just pretend for a moment here, I know CBA disallows it), and Paul was demanding no trade clause (again, just pretend), would you do it?

If the answer is yes, but is no to Melo, then you need to reconsider why you are saying no.

Of course we would cause unlike Melo Chris Paul is a winner. Look at what he's lead his teams to that Melo hasn't. {wait for the usual internet searches to realize "holy chit...Chris Paul hasn't gotten any further than Anthony either"...followed by the quick rationale to defend Paul). And ergo..and again...why players don't want to play in NY.

[blumatic]

This is the same scenario as with the Bargnani trade, trying to diminish the importance of everything to rationalize a bad move and it always turns out to be false.

"Those draft picks are meaningless, they had to be included to get rid of Novak"

"The no-trade clause is not important, players hate us because of this"

It is a completely distorted line of thinking and it always comes back to haunt us. There is a reason why only 4 players had a no-trade clause last season, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett and Nowitzki. They've proven themselves loyal to their teams, they've all won MVP's with them, they've all made them perennial playoff teams and they've all gotten at least to the conference finals with them. Carmelo doesn't meet a single criteria.

Whether you agree or not these are valid points. Well said.


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I agree with with in terms of not taking picks and terms of a contract for granted. Rasho is right.

Where he fails is the 2nd part of his argument saying you have to have the accolades of Garnett, Kobe, Dirk, and Duncan to get that clause. That is a foolish line of thinking. Because any of those guys with a no trade clause could have fallen off, or fallen out of favor. KOBE WANTED TO BE TRADED in 2007 (the summer before they got Gasol).

That line of thinking is hate to me because it is not rational. For the past two years on a game by game basis Carmelo Anthony has been the last player on the Knicks roster we put blame on. Melo puts up the points, puts up the rebounds. Plays hurt, set's teams records since his been here. Set's All star records. Night in and night not, Melo shows up.

We talk about how bad Felton is, how weak Tyson his, Bargs and Amare being useless, Woodson's incompetence, JR's idiocy. All year. And every offseason we say Carmelo didnt do enough.

Time and time again they say you cant build team around Carmelo. I always say, I have yet seen anyone actually build a team around him.

[moocow007]

According to Coon's FAQ, no trade clauses are only allowed if the player played for the team for four seasons. Melo has played for us for three full seasons, and one partial season. I am unsure whether the four seasons means four full seasons and I am unable to look through the language in the actual CBA right now. Maybe someone else will feel so inclined though.

Just about to make the same point. He does not have a full four years with the team - so he shouldn't qualify.

He qualifies. All it takes is being on a team for 1 day to qualify for a years service with that team.

[King of Canada]

Knicks officially hired Rambis as associate head coach. I wonder if he asked for a no trade clause?

Nope, but he took less money so we could sign that top water boy.

[suicidedeuce]

SAS said NY is the front runner, Melo wants a no-trade clause in the contract.

Mentioned Philly as an option to take an Amare/Shump trade for a salary dump.

Mentioned if Bosh opts out, Miami is a possibility. Mentioned Houston, Dallas, LA as still in the mix. Ended it with a "but the Melo I know loves his money."

A no-trade clause can be included in a contract only if the player has already played 8 seasons in the NBA and at least 4 seasons for the team he's signing with. Melo was traded to the Knicks in february 2011 so he played 4 seasons with the Knicks. He can have a no-trade clause but I wouldn't give it to him. He's going too far. A max contract is enough !

If he accepts a reasonable contract (less than $100 mil, approx $20 mil per season) then you may consider offering a no trade clause.

If I was the GM, even if he took less money, I wouldn't include a no-trade clause in the contract. Only Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki have a no-trade clause and all these players received one because they played for the same team their entire career. It's different for KG as he also played for Boston and Brooklyn but he got his no-trade clause when he was playing for Minny.

The only positive about giving a no-trade clause to Melo would be the fact Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki all won a championship...soo maybe it means we'll win one with Melo ! LOL

I made a mistake. After googling it, The Celtics offered Kevin Garnett his no-trade clause (and not Minny) when he signed his new contract in 2012. So it was after winning the championship with them in 2007. He never had a no-trade clause in Minnesota.

Dirk Nowitzki obtained his no-trade clause in july 2010 when he signed his four-year deal worth $80 million. In 2010, he already helped the Mavs reach the NBA Finals in 2006 and it was after 10 consecutive 50-win seasons.

There's absolutely no comparison with Melo. As already said, no reason to cave in and offer him a no-trade clause. No way he deserves one. He's probably just trying to make Phil Jackson eat crow for his comments about the paycut stuff.

Why does anyone spend their time trying to apply their own subjective criterion to players rights?

ONLY relevant question are:

1.) Does a player qualify for a certain clause in the CBA?

2.) Does a marker exist in the NBA for which a player is in position to ask for it.

The answer to #1 is yes and the answer to #2 appears to be yes as well.

Personally, were I a player I'd value a no-trade as much of not more than anything. To be unilaterally told you have to spend half your year at a location and situation not of your own choosing, when you're earned the service time to control that.

Silly to think anyone would voluntarily leave that on the table.

I have a hard time understanding how seemingly otherwise intelligent people don't seem to grasp these are people's real LIVES we're 'discussing', not a season on a videogame.

[Bob Ross]

This is the same scenario as with the Bargnani trade, trying to diminish the importance of everything to rationalize a bad move and it always turns out to be false.

"Those draft picks are meaningless, they had to be included to get rid of Novak"

"The no-trade clause is not important, players hate us because of this"

It is a completely distorted line of thinking and it always comes back to haunt us. There is a reason why only 4 players had a no-trade clause last season, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett and Nowitzki. They've proven themselves loyal to their teams, they've all won MVP's with them, they've all made them perennial playoff teams and they've all gotten at least to the conference finals with them. Carmelo doesn't meet a single criteria.

Well well. Now there's 1 other story to bash Melo on. Why does this dreary response not surprise me?
I'm 100% certain Patrick Ewing wished he had a no-trade clause in his last contract with the KNicks.

And Patrick Ewing would have deserved one.

Patrick did have a no trade clause. He gave the Knicks a list of teams he would waive it for in a trade. Seattle was one

[blumatic]

People are waiting around on pins and needles for a guy who didn't even make the playoffs last year this isn't bron who changes the balance of power and automatically makes u a contender..I don't see why if he left anyone would be that crushed he's not Ewing or anything who had us win 50 plus every year if he leaves you'll get over it

Dang you really thing Ewing would have gave us 50 wins with Felton JR Tyson and Woody? Really?

You forget the Knick legends Ewing played with (even though they werent enough themselves).

[Workforce250]

This is the same scenario as with the Bargnani trade, trying to diminish the importance of everything to rationalize a bad move and it always turns out to be false.

"Those draft picks are meaningless, they had to be included to get rid of Novak"

"The no-trade clause is not important, players hate us because of this"

It is a completely distorted line of thinking and it always comes back to haunt us. There is a reason why only 4 players had a no-trade clause last season, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett and Nowitzki. They've proven themselves loyal to their teams, they've all won MVP's with them, they've all made them perennial playoff teams and they've all gotten at least to the conference finals with them. Carmelo doesn't meet a single criteria.

Well well. Now there's 1 other story to bash Melo on. Why does this dreary response not surprise me?
I'm 100% certain Patrick Ewing wished he had a no-trade clause in his last contract with the KNicks.

And Patrick Ewing would have deserved one.

Yeah BRo, but there were NY Fans just like YOU, that were hating on him at the end of his time here. Looking to trade Ewing for change was a regular NY Post discussion by Vescey. You have no idea what the next 4 hours will bring, nevermind the next 4-5 years, regarding what Melo can bring with Phil Jackson.

[moocow007]

Well well. Now there's 1 other story to bash Melo on. Why does this dreary response not surprise me?
I'm 100% certain Patrick Ewing wished he had a no-trade clause in his last contract with the KNicks.

And Patrick Ewing would have deserved one.

Patrick did have a no trade clause. He gave the Knicks a list of teams he would waive it for in a trade. Seattle was one

So Ewing, with a no trade clause, was traded after all? Hmmm...interesting.

I believe Ewing would have also approved of a trade to Portland (who was thick in the championship contention as well at the time and offering what would have been a better eventual package). <-- this is the response for anyone that starts coming with the "but look what we got for him" diatribe.

[EricAnderson]

People are waiting around on pins and needles for a guy who didn't even make the playoffs last year this isn't bron who changes the balance of power and automatically makes u a contender..I don't see why if he left anyone would be that crushed he's not Ewing or anything who had us win 50 plus every year if he leaves you'll get over it

He' made the playoffs 10 out of 11 seasons in the league...

Thats not an accomplishment more then half the teams make the playoffs every year