OT: Russia-Ukraine War

[HopelessKnick]

Ukraine ran into a wall it seems. Launching an offensive with little to no air cover against dug in defenses was absolutely reckless. You can see russian helicopter gunships literally chilling next to ukrainian columns with impunity. This whole thing has turned into an utter und unmitigated disaster.

Anyone thinking Putin is gonna lose this is going to be in for a big surprise.

[8516knicks]

Ukraine ran into a wall it seems. Launching an offensive with little to no air cover against dug in defenses was absolutely reckless. You can see russian helicopter gunships literally chilling next to ukrainian columns with impunity. This whole thing has turned into an utter und unmitigated disaster.

Anyone thinking Putin is gonna lose this is going to be in for a big surprise.

Not necessarily. Losses were expected. Seems most/all the tanks/apvs can and will be repaired and lots of the guys inside survived (due to Western equipment having better anti-mine protection).

NOT QUITE YET...

Watch on YouTube

[Clyde_Style]

Ukraine ran into a wall it seems. Launching an offensive with little to no air cover against dug in defenses was absolutely reckless. You can see russian helicopter gunships literally chilling next to ukrainian columns with impunity. This whole thing has turned into an utter und unmitigated disaster.

Anyone thinking Putin is gonna lose this is going to be in for a big surprise.

Not necessarily. Losses were expected. Seems most/all the tanks/apvs can and will be repaired and lots of the guys inside survived (due to Western equipment having better anti-mine protection).

NOT QUITE YET...

Watch on YouTube

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

[HopelessKnick]

Ukraine ran into a wall it seems. Launching an offensive with little to no air cover against dug in defenses was absolutely reckless. You can see russian helicopter gunships literally chilling next to ukrainian columns with impunity. This whole thing has turned into an utter und unmitigated disaster.

Anyone thinking Putin is gonna lose this is going to be in for a big surprise.

Not necessarily. Losses were expected. Seems most/all the tanks/apvs can and will be repaired and lots of the guys inside survived (due to Western equipment having better anti-mine protection).

NOT QUITE YET...

Watch on YouTube

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

[fleet]

[KnicksGadfly]

Not necessarily. Losses were expected. Seems most/all the tanks/apvs can and will be repaired and lots of the guys inside survived (due to Western equipment having better anti-mine protection).

NOT QUITE YET...

Watch on YouTube

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

Mm...from what the way you're writing, it seems like you think Ukraine is the evil oppressor and Russia is fighting a righteous war?

[Clyde_Style]

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

Mm...from what the way you're writing, it seems like you think Ukraine is the evil oppressor and Russia is fighting a righteous war?

Yeah, pretty transparent, isn't it? No reason to get into it

[MrDollarBills]

Comparing Ukraine defending its people against the hostile Russians to Napoleonic France and The 3rd Reich?

Propaganda is a bitch

[KnicksGadfly]

Comparing Ukraine defending its people against the hostile Russians to Napoleonic France and The 3rd Reich?

Propaganda is a bitch

Well you know, Putin and Tucker Carlson keep telling me that Ukraine’s Jewish President is a Nazi, so anyone who disagrees with me likes the MSM.

Homelander foreverrrrrr

[8516knicks]

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

Mm...from what the way you're writing, it seems like you think Ukraine is the evil oppressor and Russia is fighting a righteous war?

The Q forces is still strong with some I see.

[8516knicks]

Not necessarily. Losses were expected. Seems most/all the tanks/apvs can and will be repaired and lots of the guys inside survived (due to Western equipment having better anti-mine protection).

NOT QUITE YET...

Watch on YouTube

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

Right arm, comrade! But beware open windows!

[HopelessKnick]

Neither side has air superiority. Both have decent air defense capabilities, so until Ukraine gets their F16's from the West later this year the gains will be made by offense vs. defense. That means Ukraine will take on casualties to breach Russians dug into defensive postures, but what the gloomy prognosis from talking heads glosses over is how badly staffed the Russian military is now. It's full of mercenaries and green kids with no training. When you break through their walls of defense they cut bait and run like hell.

I disagree. Ukraine will succeed. They will take back Crimea and eventually almost all of their territories. 80% of the Ukraine people have polled as wanting to go all the way. They are not backing down. Putin is much weaker at this point. Breakthroughs will happen and the Russian army will fold.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's exactly the other way round. Ukraine lost their best forces throughout the first 12 months. What they have left is a bunch of green horns, old forced conscripts and a bunch of guys with minimal western training. That's nowhere near getting it cut. You have completely bought into our utterly false narrative. The russians won't panic even if Ukraine breaks through. Right or wrong, they'll be fighting like hell. They did it against Napoleon, they did it against Hitler. They are not going to panic against a ukrainian counter offensive. In Kharkiv they were outnumbered 1 to 8, that's why they had no choice other than running and retreating. Even later on at Lyman they were able to hold that city for weeks while being outnumbered almost 1 to 10. Ukraine had to sent in massive forces to captures that place against less than 1000 russians. They fought like hell.

Everyone outside the MSM knows this. Everyone knows Ukraine is losing and is on the brink of collapse, hence the talk of ever freezing the conflict ot ever newer weapon systems. First it was the Stinger, then Javelins, then HIMARS, then triple 7, then Leopard, then challenger, ....the list goes on. UK provided the storm shadows and that was the next supposed game changer....the russians figured it out quicker than you can say "hi" and have been shooting it down with ease. The reason we haven't sent F16 is that we know the S400 are gonna shoot them down like flies and the US does not want to have pictures of decimated F16 crashing into the ground. The germans are now faced with pictures of half their Leopard 2A6 having been destroyed within days. The US wanted to avoid the same situation for the Abrams...hence the delay. Sou will soon be hearing talk of ATCMS and boots on the ground to save the situation at least for western Ukraine. The russians are in the east with 500K+ mean, overwhelming artillery advantage and 5 lines of fortified defense, awaiting this offensive for 8 months now. They aren't going to lose.

Mm...from what the way you're writing, it seems like you think Ukraine is the evil oppressor and Russia is fighting a righteous war?

See , this is EXACTLY the problem. It has nothing to do with what I think about Putin and Russia or Ukraine. It's just an objective assessment of the military situation. The same mentality: "The russians are incompetent. Their morale is ****. They are running out of everything, missiles, men. Putin is on the verge of being overthrown. Russia won't survive the sanctions for even 6months. Russia is a gas station masquerading as an economy." All this utter and pure propaganda with no basis in reality. Currently the russian economy is expected to grow slightly while Germany is officialy in a recession and UK as well....looking at the figures, the european economies suffered from the sanctions much more than Russia.

You guys don't realize all this has been utter nonsensical propaganda bs from the beginning. I can't count how often I heard these assessments by "experts". 99% of what you read in your MSM is pure propaganda. And I'm not talking about morality or the war itself and what not...I'm purely talking about assessing the military situation there with no judgment on anything else. View Russia as an evil force for what I care, I don't mind at all. It still won't change the fact that they are awaiting this offense behind 5 lines of fortified defense position, overwhelming artillery advantage and forces that will fight until the bitter end. Even being on the wrong side of history does not change that fact. The US went to Iraq,a country that is thousands of miles away and never posed a threat. They went to Iraq in breach of international law in an unprovoked war of aggression and occupied the country for 20 years---did that make them lose from a military standpoint or did they destroy Iraqi forces despite being on the wrong side of history? The one has nothing to do with the other. Remember my words when you will be soon hearing about eastern european countries being discussed with walking into western Ukraine to save at least that part of the country from Russia. Remember it when the Biden administration will be discussing or anouncing the sending of ATCMS missiles. And then ask yourself why the west would have to send ever more heavy equipment and weapons and potentially organize an army force sent into the western parts of Ukraine if Ukraine was winning all the time anyways.

[thebuzzardman]

Sometimes the screen names are really apt