There is legitimate support within the Knicks organization for Kenny Atkinson

[moocow007]

You think?

The reality is if you put Thibs in Brooklyn with that roster they had last season (one offensive guy that he can ride like Secretariat and a whole bunch of vets that knew they needed to defend and do the dirty work...sound familiar?) he'd probably also have been at least .500.

Getting that team to .500 is not as hard as people think it was. Once you take out the inate hate for anything Nets, that team last season was actually a pretty well built and balanced team. Sean Marks (Nets GM) doesn't get as much credit as he should. Marks was the assistant GM in one of the best run front offices in NBA history (San Antonio) and knew what he needed to maximize the resources (most of which previous regimes had sapped dry) and put the best product on the floor (by identifying the right mix of guys that can play together and get the sum better than the individual parts). A guy like Marks is what the Knicks should have been looking for to run their front office, not the Phil Jackson and Isiah Thomas' of the world.

yep.

Honestly, if you objectively look at Kenny over the past few seasons, he's basically David Fizdale except that he convinced his team to incorporate a better shot profile. His Xs and Os were pretty terrible - never finished higher than 20th in points/possession - and clearly he's seen to have an issue working with stars as his free-for-all offense was not popular.

https://theathletic.com/1862178/2020/06/10/knicks-head-coaching-search-a-closer-look-at-kenny-atkinson-and-how-hed-fit/?article_source=search&search_query=atkinson

This is a good article, but peep this paragraph:

“He moved from just development and started learning some Xs and Os. I tell him that all the time. I think he’s now understanding out of bounds after timeout plays. He understands those are key moments in the game and getting guys open and getting guys shots. I think that’s been big for him. That’s his next step that I think he took because Xs and Os, you’ve got to be able to do that if you’re going to be a successful coach in the NBA.” — DeMarre Carroll to The Athletic, March 2019

I think that's a slight bit concerning to me.

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

I'll be very honest here. Every head coach has his strengths and weaknesses which then is reflected in what they are able to impart on this players.

But every player (regardless of age) also has a proclivity towards certain things which impacts what they can and can't improve on.

Its really not as simple as what some people may be thinking when it comes to who develops what player. You don't learn from thin air and you don't learn on rep. You learn based on being lined up with the right teacher that helps you exploit what you may be best suited for.

As of right now the Knicks core young players could actually benefit more from having a hard ass type coach like Thibs get on their ass. Frank can absolutely thrive in Thibs system. Robinson as well. Barrett projects to Jimmy Butler potentially. Even Knox can possibly snap out of hi milquetoastiness if he is pushed more and provided a strong firm handed coach.

So I dont know that Thibs would not be good for their development.

He may not be good for DSJs development as you may get the stubborn on stubborn (entitled) head butting (which he may have encountered in Minny...based on what Jimmy Butler said its quite likely) but I do actually think that for most of their other young guys Thibs can unlock some significant upticking.

I actually think that young players that are good at learning and are not full of themselves will benefit from Thibs.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[2010]

Coaching Candidate Pool
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. Kenny Atkinson
3. Mike Woodson
4. Mike Miller
5. Mark Jackson
6. Jason Kidd

Is there some kind of requirement for Knicks ties in order to meet the candidacy criteria?

[Infinitimind]

You think?

The reality is if you put Thibs in Brooklyn with that roster they had last season (one offensive guy that he can ride like Secretariat and a whole bunch of vets that knew they needed to defend and do the dirty work...sound familiar?) he'd probably also have been at least .500.

Getting that team to .500 is not as hard as people think it was. Once you take out the inate hate for anything Nets, that team last season was actually a pretty well built and balanced team. Sean Marks (Nets GM) doesn't get as much credit as he should. Marks was the assistant GM in one of the best run front offices in NBA history (San Antonio) and knew what he needed to maximize the resources (most of which previous regimes had sapped dry) and put the best product on the floor (by identifying the right mix of guys that can play together and get the sum better than the individual parts). A guy like Marks is what the Knicks should have been looking for to run their front office, not the Phil Jackson and Isiah Thomas' of the world.

yep.

Honestly, if you objectively look at Kenny over the past few seasons, he's basically David Fizdale except that he convinced his team to incorporate a better shot profile. His Xs and Os were pretty terrible - never finished higher than 20th in points/possession - and clearly he's seen to have an issue working with stars as his free-for-all offense was not popular.

https://theathletic.com/1862178/2020/06/10/knicks-head-coaching-search-a-closer-look-at-kenny-atkinson-and-how-hed-fit/?article_source=search&search_query=atkinson

This is a good article, but peep this paragraph:

“He moved from just development and started learning some Xs and Os. I tell him that all the time. I think he’s now understanding out of bounds after timeout plays. He understands those are key moments in the game and getting guys open and getting guys shots. I think that’s been big for him. That’s his next step that I think he took because Xs and Os, you’ve got to be able to do that if you’re going to be a successful coach in the NBA.” — DeMarre Carroll to The Athletic, March 2019

I think that's a slight bit concerning to me.

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

100 percent agreed with this

[Zenzibar]

yep.

Honestly, if you objectively look at Kenny over the past few seasons, he's basically David Fizdale except that he convinced his team to incorporate a better shot profile. His Xs and Os were pretty terrible - never finished higher than 20th in points/possession - and clearly he's seen to have an issue working with stars as his free-for-all offense was not popular.

https://theathletic.com/1862178/2020/06/10/knicks-head-coaching-search-a-closer-look-at-kenny-atkinson-and-how-hed-fit/?article_source=search&search_query=atkinson

This is a good article, but peep this paragraph:



I think that's a slight bit concerning to me.

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

100 percent agreed with this

Count me too.

Would be interesting to see how the Knicks faired under Mike Miller in plays after timeouts. To me, Mike Miller appeared on another level from Fiz. So a combination of Kenny and Mike would benefit the kids greatly.

Mike Miller is not just a defensive wiz, as notwed by the folloiwing article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/01/03/knicks-numbers-a-look-at-why-new-york-has-played-so-much-better-under-mike-miller/#6b1f42ad7145

Of course, New York has been vastly improved on the offensive end as well. In the 22 games the team played under Fizdale, the Knicks ranked dead last in the NBA in Offensive Rating, scoring fewer than 102 points per 100 possessions (every other team in the league posted an OffRtg of at least 103.5). Over the Knicks last ten games, New York ranks in the top-10 on Offensive Rating, scoring 111 points per 100 possessions.

Several factors have led to the Knicks getting cleaner looks and scoring more efficiently. One reason is Miller’s insistence that his team pushes the ball up the floor. Under Fizdale, the Knicks ranked 27th in the NBA in pace. New York ranks 12th since Miller took over. In addition, they are running pick-and-rolls and driving the ball into the paint far more frequently.

The Knicks have also been doing a much better job of taking care of the basketball. New York ranks fourth in the league in Turnover Percentage (12.9%) under Miller, whereas they ranked 19th (15.3%) with Fizdale at the helm.

No player has benefited more for the coaching change than Julius Randle. After signing a three-year, $63 million deal with the Knicks this past summer, Randle struggled to make a positive first impression in NYC. Through the Knicks’ first 22 games, he averaged 16.8 points and 8.5 rebounds while shooting just 44.2% from the floor, 24.1% from downtown and 66.1% from the charity stripe.

Over his last ten games, Randle is averaging 24.0 points and 10.0 boards while shooting 49.4% from the floor, 39.3% from 3-point range and 79.2% from the FT line. Dating back to Dec. 10, only three other NBA players are averaging at least 20 points and ten rebounds: Anthony Davis, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Joel Embiid.

_____

[Clyde_Style]

yep.

Honestly, if you objectively look at Kenny over the past few seasons, he's basically David Fizdale except that he convinced his team to incorporate a better shot profile. His Xs and Os were pretty terrible - never finished higher than 20th in points/possession - and clearly he's seen to have an issue working with stars as his free-for-all offense was not popular.

https://theathletic.com/1862178/2020/06/10/knicks-head-coaching-search-a-closer-look-at-kenny-atkinson-and-how-hed-fit/?article_source=search&search_query=atkinson

This is a good article, but peep this paragraph:



I think that's a slight bit concerning to me.

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

I'll be very honest here. Every head coach has his strengths and weaknesses which then is reflected in what they are able to impart on this players.

But every player (regardless of age) also has a proclivity towards certain things which impacts what they can and can't improve on.

Its really not as simple as what some people may be thinking when it comes to who develops what player. You don't learn from thin air and you don't learn on rep. You learn based on being lined up with the right teacher that helps you exploit what you may be best suited for.

As of right now the Knicks core young players could actually benefit more from having a hard ass type coach like Thibs get on their ass. Frank can absolutely thrive in Thibs system. Robinson as well. Barrett projects to Jimmy Butler potentially. Even Knox can possibly snap out of hi milquetoastiness if he is pushed more and provided a strong firm handed coach.

So I dont know that Thibs would not be good for their development.

He may not be good for DSJs development as you may get the stubborn on stubborn (entitled) head butting (which he may have encountered in Minny...based on what Jimmy Butler said its quite likely) but I do actually think that for most of their other young guys Thibs can unlock some significant upticking.

I actually think that young players that are good at learning and are not full of themselves will benefit from Thibs.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

For all the apprehension about Thibs grinding down players on a short rotation, if he really is all that as a defensive coach then I'd like to see what Thibs can do with the likes of RJ, Frank and Mitch.

Nothing is more fearsome to an opponent than facing a Garden crowd chanting deeeee-fense! and they actually have some of the players already that could make this one of the best defensive teams in the league.

As far as offensive talent goes, I'd say that is up to the front office to conjure, but if we could build a culture that prioritizes defense then anyone who comes to the Knicks would know they're signing up for hard work and team play.

Right now, there is no signature style of play, but perhaps we could develop one with Thibs.

Plus, it would piss off Shamgod to see Frank start, so that would be a plus.

[newyorker4ever]

Coach Budenholzer says yes to Knicks signing Kenny and i love Coach Bud so i'm in on the Kenny/Miller combo.

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/06/12/new-york-knicks-mike-budenholzer-endorses-kenny-atkinson/

“I’d love to see him be coach of the Knicks,” Budenholzer told the New York Post. “It’s a great opportunity. He understands he’ll have a bunch of opportunities and situations. He’s had an amazing life with a great family. It would be a home run for him. There’s nothing like coaching the team you grew up with, he worked with. And with what they’re trying to do and where they are.”


“It’s totally unfair,’’ Budenholzer told the New York Post. “For culture and accountability, you got to be willing to coach the best player. It is really important. We were lucky when we were together we had great ‘best players’ — high character who wanted to be coached. It was a perfect environment for [Atkinson] — to see that. Kenny has ability to coach any players, including the stars and best players in the league.”

[Fat]

Which one of these coaches will let Mitchell Robinson shoot 3”s? That’s who I want

[moocow007]

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

I'll be very honest here. Every head coach has his strengths and weaknesses which then is reflected in what they are able to impart on this players.

But every player (regardless of age) also has a proclivity towards certain things which impacts what they can and can't improve on.

Its really not as simple as what some people may be thinking when it comes to who develops what player. You don't learn from thin air and you don't learn on rep. You learn based on being lined up with the right teacher that helps you exploit what you may be best suited for.

As of right now the Knicks core young players could actually benefit more from having a hard ass type coach like Thibs get on their ass. Frank can absolutely thrive in Thibs system. Robinson as well. Barrett projects to Jimmy Butler potentially. Even Knox can possibly snap out of hi milquetoastiness if he is pushed more and provided a strong firm handed coach.

So I dont know that Thibs would not be good for their development.

He may not be good for DSJs development as you may get the stubborn on stubborn (entitled) head butting (which he may have encountered in Minny...based on what Jimmy Butler said its quite likely) but I do actually think that for most of their other young guys Thibs can unlock some significant upticking.

I actually think that young players that are good at learning and are not full of themselves will benefit from Thibs.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

For all the apprehension about Thibs grinding down players on a short rotation, if he really is all that as a defensive coach then I'd like to see what Thibs can do with the likes of RJ, Frank and Mitch.

Nothing is more fearsome to an opponent than facing a Garden crowd chanting deeeee-fense! and they actually have some of the players already that could make this one of the best defensive teams in the league.

As far as offensive talent goes, I'd say that is up to the front office to conjure, but if we could build a culture that prioritizes defense then anyone who comes to the Knicks would know they're signing up for hard work and team play.

Right now, there is no signature style of play, but perhaps we could develop one with Thibs.

Plus, it would piss off Shamgod to see Frank start, so that would be a plus.

Yep and thats what you want. Young guys that play hard, compete like warriors and that go all out on the defensive end. Thats what Thibs got out of the young Bulls players. And its carried over through their respective careers.

For Frank I can see the intensity and confidence upping his game and carrying over beyond the defense. For Mitch a more serious, focused and meaner Mitch that truly casts fear in the eyes of opposing offenses. For RJ, seriously I can see a Jimmy Butler like all star player waiting to come out to maybe lead this team.

Offense, they can find offense...perhaps in that big name player they are rumored to still be chasing? I mean if I was a big name player I'd be very interested in a team where Frank, Mitch and RJ are what I project them to potentially become under Thibs. That would be a heck of a supporting cast if I'm a prime time scorer.

And yep anything to get sham riled up is a plus lol.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[Clyde_Style]

I'll be very honest here. Every head coach has his strengths and weaknesses which then is reflected in what they are able to impart on this players.

But every player (regardless of age) also has a proclivity towards certain things which impacts what they can and can't improve on.

Its really not as simple as what some people may be thinking when it comes to who develops what player. You don't learn from thin air and you don't learn on rep. You learn based on being lined up with the right teacher that helps you exploit what you may be best suited for.

As of right now the Knicks core young players could actually benefit more from having a hard ass type coach like Thibs get on their ass. Frank can absolutely thrive in Thibs system. Robinson as well. Barrett projects to Jimmy Butler potentially. Even Knox can possibly snap out of hi milquetoastiness if he is pushed more and provided a strong firm handed coach.

So I dont know that Thibs would not be good for their development.

He may not be good for DSJs development as you may get the stubborn on stubborn (entitled) head butting (which he may have encountered in Minny...based on what Jimmy Butler said its quite likely) but I do actually think that for most of their other young guys Thibs can unlock some significant upticking.

I actually think that young players that are good at learning and are not full of themselves will benefit from Thibs.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

For all the apprehension about Thibs grinding down players on a short rotation, if he really is all that as a defensive coach then I'd like to see what Thibs can do with the likes of RJ, Frank and Mitch.

Nothing is more fearsome to an opponent than facing a Garden crowd chanting deeeee-fense! and they actually have some of the players already that could make this one of the best defensive teams in the league.

As far as offensive talent goes, I'd say that is up to the front office to conjure, but if we could build a culture that prioritizes defense then anyone who comes to the Knicks would know they're signing up for hard work and team play.

Right now, there is no signature style of play, but perhaps we could develop one with Thibs.

Plus, it would piss off Shamgod to see Frank start, so that would be a plus.

Yep and thats what you want. Young guys that play hard, compete like warriors and that go all out on the defensive end. Thats what Thibs got out of the young Bulls players. And its carried over through their respective careers.

For Frank I can see the intensity and confidence upping his game and carrying over beyond the defense. For Mitch a more serious, focused and meaner Mitch that truly casts fear in the eyes of opposing offenses. For RJ, seriously I can see a Jimmy Butler like all star player waiting to come out to maybe lead this team.

Offense, they can find offense...perhaps in that big name player they are rumored to still be chasing? I mean if I was a big name player I'd be very interested in a team where Frank, Mitch and RJ are what I project them to potentially become under Thibs. That would be a heck of a supporting cast if I'm a prime time scorer.

And yep anything to get sham riled up is a plus lol.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

That would be great even if it took them another 2-3 seasons to land a great # 1 option. RJ is very much a Butler project and I think Frank would become something special. Mitch needs a strong coach to keep him from lapsing into bad habits.

Xs and Os are great, but at the end of the day the coach's character is what sets the tone. For that reason, I think Thibs may be that culture guy. We have youth and they can handle the extra work.

I understand if fans are bored stiff with the culture theme, but to me it is pretty much everything. You can refine all kinds of things, but you can't fix them when the underlying culture is broken. We've had too many selfish players on this roster for too long. Time to bring in a guy who will break you or bench you if you don't want to play team ball.

[Gravy]

I'd take Kenny or Thibs. They are both good and it's about the players anyway. None of them are benching Randle or starting Frank tho. That's what yall are looking for, I see u

[Clyde_Style]

I'd take Kenny or Thibs. They are both good and it's about the players anyway. None of them are benching Randle or starting Frank tho. That's what yall are looking for, I see u

[WargamesX]

At this point I don’t care about X and O’s. The Knicks need development. Even if the plan is to trade them for stars they got to at least look like decent to good players. Kenny comes here and the kids play better overall and we win 35 games I am ecstatic. Kenny is the guy you get to get the kids to the point that a better playoff coach makes sense.

Like if the youth were in their Mid 20’s and we were a 9-6 seed and the rumor was the Knicks wanted Thibs to get the kids to a 5-1 seed. That I would support fullyZ bringing Thibs here now makes no sense and that is ignoring his issues with his defense and offense system.

I'll be very honest here. Every head coach has his strengths and weaknesses which then is reflected in what they are able to impart on this players.

But every player (regardless of age) also has a proclivity towards certain things which impacts what they can and can't improve on.

Its really not as simple as what some people may be thinking when it comes to who develops what player. You don't learn from thin air and you don't learn on rep. You learn based on being lined up with the right teacher that helps you exploit what you may be best suited for.

As of right now the Knicks core young players could actually benefit more from having a hard ass type coach like Thibs get on their ass. Frank can absolutely thrive in Thibs system. Robinson as well. Barrett projects to Jimmy Butler potentially. Even Knox can possibly snap out of hi milquetoastiness if he is pushed more and provided a strong firm handed coach.

So I dont know that Thibs would not be good for their development.

He may not be good for DSJs development as you may get the stubborn on stubborn (entitled) head butting (which he may have encountered in Minny...based on what Jimmy Butler said its quite likely) but I do actually think that for most of their other young guys Thibs can unlock some significant upticking.

I actually think that young players that are good at learning and are not full of themselves will benefit from Thibs.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

For all the apprehension about Thibs grinding down players on a short rotation, if he really is all that as a defensive coach then I'd like to see what Thibs can do with the likes of RJ, Frank and Mitch.

Nothing is more fearsome to an opponent than facing a Garden crowd chanting deeeee-fense! and they actually have some of the players already that could make this one of the best defensive teams in the league.

As far as offensive talent goes, I'd say that is up to the front office to conjure, but if we could build a culture that prioritizes defense then anyone who comes to the Knicks would know they're signing up for hard work and team play.

Right now, there is no signature style of play, but perhaps we could develop one with Thibs.

Plus, it would piss off Shamgod to see Frank start, so that would be a plus.

I use to think like this too until I learned more about Thibs and his defense system ICE. The system he likes to run has been adapted too because it relies on players not being able to shoot the 3 well and even setting it up can be countered if who ever brings the ball up gets a high pick and then can shoot a 3...... Basically his defense is weak against the 3 pt shot and that is the most popular shot in the league right now.

[thebuzzardman]

I don't know who will be coach, but the fact that half the board is behind one candidate and half the board is behind another bodes well for entertainment purposes over the next 2 years (until the coach is fired)

[WargamesX]

I don't know who will be coach, but the fact that half the board is behind one candidate and half the board is behind another bodes well for entertainment purposes over the next 2 years (until the coach is fired)

Is half the board behind Thibs, or just trying to seem like they supported the inevitable bad choice to lessen the sting of LOLKnicks?

That’s the real question.

[thebuzzardman]

I don't know who will be coach, but the fact that half the board is behind one candidate and half the board is behind another bodes well for entertainment purposes over the next 2 years (until the coach is fired)

Is half the board behind Thibs, or just trying to seem like they supported the inevitable bad choice to lessen the sting of LOLKnicks?

That’s the real question.

Yes, half the board isn't behind Savior Kenny

[Calinks]

Take him over Thibs

[King of Canada]

I don't know who will be coach, but the fact that half the board is behind one candidate and half the board is behind another bodes well for entertainment purposes over the next 2 years (until the coach is fired)

Just watch when they name Frank Ntilikina head coach!

[Sark]

I'm sure they'll find a way to screw this up.

Supposed to get Kerr. Got Derek Fisher.

Supposed to get Budenholzer. Got David Fizdale.

[BBALLER4FR]

Kenny Atkinson huh?

[thebuzzardman]

Bootleg Pringles