Thoughts on aggressive pursuit of Fred Van Vleet & Joe Harris/Davis Bertans

Jeffrey · Post #21 » by **Jeffrey** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:11 am

Man, even after this draft lottery.... I still see tank commanders out like y'all don't see the big picture here. You are looking like fools here if you keep clamoring for tanking and then somehow when the "time is right", it is easy for FAs to come here.

I'm in the thinking that none of y'all want FAs unless they are top 3 in the NBA. Sheeiiit even some of you guys don't want a guy like AD, so who do you really want? I think it's just some imaginary god-tier level ball player that we've never seen before

So when do we build a "treadmill" team and then get the final pieces to take the next step? Only when we have a **** of young boys within 2 years of each other? If that's the case, we will need to trade RJ Barrett in a year because our new hot young draft player doesn't fit this timeline.

Clyde_Style · Post #22 » by **Clyde_Style** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:20 am

Jeffrey wrote:Man, even after this draft lottery.... I still see tank commanders out like y'all don't see the big picture here. You are looking like fools here if you keep clamoring for tanking and then somehow when the "time is right", it is easy for FAs to come here.

I'm in the thinking that none of y'all want FAs unless they are top 3 in the NBA. Sheeiiit even some of you guys don't want a guy like AD, so who do you really want? I think it's just some imaginary god-tier level ball player that we've never seen before

So when do we build a "treadmill" team and then get the final pieces to take the next step? Only when we have a **** of young boys within 2 years of each other? If that's the case, we will need to trade RJ Barrett in a year because our new hot young draft player doesn't fit this timeline.

I think Rose is doing what you want. I hope he is. It looks promising. If it plays out accordingly we'll see stability in the coaching staff and an actual plan to grow players into success stories. It will still take 2-3 years, but you really can never know when the corner is turned into perennial playoff team. It can happen relatively quickly or be a slower burn, but the only thing that matters is the vision and the plan, not the weird narratives about luring players by becoming a destination. You become a destination by becoming a reliable and professional organization that knows how to capitalize on luck when it materializes.

F N 11 · Post #23 » by **F N 11** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:41 am

We can offer front loaded 1 year second year option to guys if they would take it. I feel like we will just have to build from within. Someone has to pan out, nba and free agents ain’t doing us any favors.

Jeffrey · Post #24 » by **Jeffrey** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:38 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Jeffrey wrote:Man, even after this draft lottery.... I still see tank commanders out like y'all don't see the big picture here. You are looking like fools here if you keep clamoring for tanking and then somehow when the "time is right", it is easy for FAs to come here.

I'm in the thinking that none of y'all want FAs unless they are top 3 in the NBA. Sheeiiit even some of you guys don't want a guy like AD, so who do you really want? I think it's just some imaginary god-tier level ball player that we've never seen before

So when do we build a "treadmill" team and then get the final pieces to take the next step? Only when we have a **** of young boys within 2 years of each other? If that's the case, we will need to trade RJ Barrett in a year because our new hot young draft player doesn't fit this timeline.

I think Rose is doing what you want. I hope he is. It looks promising. If it plays out accordingly we'll see stability in the coaching staff and an actual plan to grow players into success stories. It will still take 2-3 years, but you really can never know when the corner is turned into perennial playoff team. It can happen relatively quickly or be a slower burn, but the only thing that matters is the vision and the plan, not the weird narratives about luring players by becoming a destination. You become a destination by becoming a reliable and professional organization that knows how to capitalize on luck when it materializes.

I hope so. Looking at past history, how many teams went from sh.it to true contenders? Probably Lakers and Heat cuz of Lebron's love to move to different places.

Jose7 · Post #25 » by **Jose7** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:51 pm

FVV is a no brainer. Would be the best and most talented guard we'd have since Marbury.

No brainer.

Jeffrey · Post #26 » by **Jeffrey** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:53 pm

Going to say no on FVV.

I would like to go after Joe Harris and Bertans/Gallinari. Have shooters around RJ who can drive and kickout.

Post #27 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:14 pm

love fred, and he deserves the bread. i just can't max him for 4 years with a clear conscience. and i think he deserves more than a randle deal, which i would be comfortable giving him.

toronto will pay him and retain him.

Post #28 » by **Jeff Van Gully** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:16 pm

if you want to give DSJ and/or frank a last stand this offseason, joe harris is perfect for this team in every way. but, he is even more perfect in brooklyn's starting lineup next to kyrie and KD. i think they need to give him a chunky long-term deal and go for the chip. otherwise, they'll be looking for another joe harris and won't be guaranteed to find him.

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #29 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:27 pm

Jeffrey wrote:Going to say no on FVV.

I would like to go after Joe Harris and Bertans/Gallinari. Have shooters around RJ who can drive and kickout.

I don't understand this rational, it's much harder to find a quality PG on the open market than it is a shooter. I'd much rather pay the premium for Fred, as he's one of the best two way PGs in the league that can also play off the ball as opposed to someone who is just a shooter. You can find Joe Harris players and develop them as long as you're patient, the Heat have done it with Duncan Robinson, the Raptors are going to do it with Matt Thomas and Terrance Davis. They are always out there, just look for a great college shooter whose athleticism is questioned but has good size, develop his body so he can at the very least guard without being a liability.

The Rockets have turned random guys into high volume three point shooters on good percentages like Danuel House and Ben McLemore. I would never want to pay for someone like Harris if he wasn't already on my team, Bertans is a better option since he's unique for his size and position, but putting money into Harris is just crazy to me, especially when it's about him or FVV.

Post #30 » by **GONYK** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:29 pm

If there is one takeaway from this thread, it's that a lot of you need to watch more FVV :lol:

Post #31 » by **DOT** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:50 pm

If your plan is to sign a max FA in 2021, it's not a bad idea

FVV and Harris are perfect complimentary pieces for a team with a top guy, but if you swing and miss, it's really just gonna mire us in mediocrity unless RJ or who we pick this year becomes that top guy in the next few years.

SelbyCobra · Post #32 » by **SelbyCobra** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:59 pm

Thoughts on aggressive pursuit of FVV?

DrCoach · Post #33 » by **DrCoach** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:22 pm

Iggy B could be Harris

Why cant we just develop our own players

blueNorange · Post #34 » by **blueNorange** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:35 pm

van fleet is a product of the raptors system, this isn't a knock -- a lot of players are system players.

van fleet on another team with a different role/playbook is asking for disaster.

Post #35 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:23 pm

Warming up to the prospect of FVV with Killian probably being off the board. FVV/Vassell not a bad start to the off-season. Don't want to commit $ to bertans but still in on a big Gallo 1 year deal.

Post #36 » by **j4remi** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:33 pm

I've got zero problems with trying to add FVV and a sharp shooting forward; but with FVV and Joe Harris specifically my skepticism is that their home teams will let them walk. These guys would be leaving good situations and I'm not sure how much we'd have to offer to be so far above what their own teams are willing to pay that they'd leave those winning structures.

Post #37 » by **mpharris36** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:34 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Warming up to the prospect of FVV with Killian probably being off the board. FVV/Vassell not a bad start to the off-season. Don't want to commit $ to bertans but still in on a big Gallo 1 year deal.

if you can get rid of randle

a FVV and Gallo FA with Vassell in the draft...Bane with 27 and Xavier Tillman at 38 would be ideal!

FVV/Frank
RJ/Bane
Vassel/Bullock
Gallo/Knox
Mitch/Tillman with Taj being a vet leader

I think that team is fighting for the playoffs if RJ takes a jump. There is a ton more spacing for RJ to drive which is great and FVV is a perfect fit next to him because he can be on and off the ball. Just how much are we paying FVV?

Post #38 » by **GONYK** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:35 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Warming up to the prospect of FVV with Killian probably being off the board. FVV/Vassell not a bad start to the off-season. Don't want to commit $ to bertans but still in on a big Gallo 1 year deal.

if you can get rid of randle

a FVV and Gallo FA with Vassell in the draft...Bane with 27 and Xavier Tillman at 38 would be ideal!

FVV/Frank
RJ/Bane
Vassel/Bullock
Gallo/Knox
Mitch/Tillman with Taj being a vet leader

I think that team is fighting for the playoffs if RJ takes a jump. There is a ton more spacing for RJ to drive which is great and FVV is a perfect fit next to him because he can be on and off the ball. Just how much are we paying FVV?

Inject that offseason into my veins

Post #39 » by **GONYK** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:37 pm

j4remi wrote:I've got zero problems with trying to add FVV and a sharp shooting forward; but with FVV and Joe Harris specifically my skepticism is that their home teams will let them walk. These guys would be leaving good situations and I'm not sure how much we'd have to offer to be so far above what their own teams are willing to pay that they'd leave those winning structures.

Most likely correct. I actually think FVV is more gettable than Harris, but they are both going to require a legit contract to make them think about us.

Post #40 » by **mpharris36** » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:37 pm

j4remi wrote:I've got zero problems with trying to add FVV and a sharp shooting forward; but with FVV and Joe Harris specifically my skepticism is that their home teams will let them walk. These guys would be leaving good situations and I'm not sure how much we'd have to offer to be so far above what their own teams are willing to pay that they'd leave those winning structures.

Can the raps afford to pay Lowry and FVV half there cap? With Siakam getting a huge salary boost.

That would be $80-$85 MM for 3 players...with Gasol/Serge both FA

And Powell is making $10 million...with a proj $100 cap they were wouldn't really be able to add anyone else. We would have to make it very unattractive to pay FVV...maybe a poisen contract that starts really high and goes down...like somewhere in the $25 MM range per year.