Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs.

[thebuzzardman]

These discussions about Mitch's limitations make me feel better about the fake trades moving him to the GSW's for LaMelo Ball.

[Infinitimind]

I have to start out by saying I like Mitch and he's been a nice surprise, however a lot of people on here keep saying he could be like Gobert and whether that's true or not remains to be seen. What we do know is that right now Mitch is strictly a rim runner on offense much like Gobert, but we should be watching what's happening with Gobert as a cautionary tale. The entire scope of the series changed, not just because Jamal Murray has turned into a NBA 2k demigod, it's also because Mike Malone made the adjustment with Jokic taking more threes, he's up to 7 a game now on 49%. What that does is neutralizes Goberts defense pulling him from the hoop, and on the other end Gobert's lack of any real offensive skills or shooting kills their spacing. Gobert doesn't have any kind of offense to go at Jokic on the other end, no moves, no handle, no shooting, he literally just relies on putbacks and being set up.


Will Mitch develop into a better offensive player than Gobert? Does anyone here think he will be able to develop a consistent 3 pointer? I'm asking these questions because when Mitch starts, he will definitely put up some big numbers, which will lead to the big contract. I have reservations about that because I'm watching what's happening with Gobert, and because I've seen this movie before with DeAndre Jordan, Steven Adams, Clint Capella and Andre Drummond. I personally do not think you can have a defensive rim runner as a foundational piece of a team in todays NBA, you're better off finding a vet minimum guy to do that job like the Lakers, or a guy on a reasonable short term deal like the Clippers. If one of these rim runner types is taking up a substantial part of your cap you're not winning anything, they are fools gold during the regular season and liabilities in the playoffs when you're essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense.

I know we're not used to having young talent, and the immediate reaction is that we can't trade Mitch, but this is forward thinking and looking at where the league is going. If you told me Mitch would develop into a 35-38% three point shooter or an exceptional passer like Bam Adebayo I'd say keep him, but I can't help to think the player type he represents is a dying breed. If he is Gobert 2.0, I don't want that, because that always leads to the same place which.

He's better than Gobert was his age. He just broke Wilt Chamberlain record. Lets see what we got before putting any limitations on him.

Just curious

Wisemen might go 2nd in this draft. What the biggest difference between wisemen and robinson for all those who know wisemen game ?

[thebuzzardman]

I think the OP's analysis of the shortcomings of Mitch's abilities for modern NBA playoff basketball is spot on.

However, since the Knicks are at least 400 regular season games away from modern NBA playoff basketball, the worry is slightly premature.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I have to start out by saying I like Mitch and he's been a nice surprise, however a lot of people on here keep saying he could be like Gobert and whether that's true or not remains to be seen. What we do know is that right now Mitch is strictly a rim runner on offense much like Gobert, but we should be watching what's happening with Gobert as a cautionary tale. The entire scope of the series changed, not just because Jamal Murray has turned into a NBA 2k demigod, it's also because Mike Malone made the adjustment with Jokic taking more threes, he's up to 7 a game now on 49%. What that does is neutralizes Goberts defense pulling him from the hoop, and on the other end Gobert's lack of any real offensive skills or shooting kills their spacing. Gobert doesn't have any kind of offense to go at Jokic on the other end, no moves, no handle, no shooting, he literally just relies on putbacks and being set up.


Will Mitch develop into a better offensive player than Gobert? Does anyone here think he will be able to develop a consistent 3 pointer? I'm asking these questions because when Mitch starts, he will definitely put up some big numbers, which will lead to the big contract. I have reservations about that because I'm watching what's happening with Gobert, and because I've seen this movie before with DeAndre Jordan, Steven Adams, Clint Capella and Andre Drummond. I personally do not think you can have a defensive rim runner as a foundational piece of a team in todays NBA, you're better off finding a vet minimum guy to do that job like the Lakers, or a guy on a reasonable short term deal like the Clippers. If one of these rim runner types is taking up a substantial part of your cap you're not winning anything, they are fools gold during the regular season and liabilities in the playoffs when you're essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense.

I know we're not used to having young talent, and the immediate reaction is that we can't trade Mitch, but this is forward thinking and looking at where the league is going. If you told me Mitch would develop into a 35-38% three point shooter or an exceptional passer like Bam Adebayo I'd say keep him, but I can't help to think the player type he represents is a dying breed. If he is Gobert 2.0, I don't want that, because that always leads to the same place which.

He's better than Gobert was his age. He just broke Wilt Chamberlain record. Lets see what we got before putting any limitations on him.

Just curious

Wisemen might go 2nd in this draft. What the biggest difference between wisemen and robinson for all those who know wisemen game ?

Wiseman is more in line with the Ayton type of faceup C, he's got a really nice form on his jumper, some simple post moves, flashed a turn around jumper and he shot a good percentage from the line for a C. Like Ayton, you think he may be able to stretch out to the 3 line, which is what Ayton started to show in the bubble.

The questions about them are reversed, it's whether or not Wiseman will be able to defend because not many doubt his offense at the next level.

[TheGreenArrow]

If Wiseman somehow drops to us, you take him and trade Mitch.

Drafty wiseman at 8 if he’s their, trade Mitch 1 of the Dallas picks frank plus the 27thpick to the warriors for the 2nd pick(lamelo).

Fvv
Lamelo
Rj
Bertans
Wiseman

Hc:thibs

And let’s roll!!!

[TheGreenArrow]

These discussions about Mitch's limitations make me feel better about the fake trades moving him to the GSW's for LaMelo Ball.

Don’t know if they will end up being fake....

[Chanel Bomber]

That's a fair question.

I think we're gonna see an increasing number of teams downsize to have either more playmaking or more shooting at the 5. First it was Chris Bosh in Miami, then Draymond in Golden State (before Kerr inexplicably stayed big against Toronto, which in my opinion cost them the series)... Even Toronto won the chip with a playmaking 5 in Gasol, who could also stretch the floor for Kawhi. I fully expect Zion to play minutes at the 5 and dominate there.

And this development across the NBA not only threatens rim-protecting rim-runners in terms of what they have to offer offensively, but also what they can really bring defensively against a 4-out (see Milwaukee) or even a 5-out (see Dallas) offense.

The one advantage Mitch has over Gobert is his ability to defend on the perimeter. If Mitch can both protect the rim and stay in front of perimeter players a la prime Hakeem, then he will be an asset no matter what his limitations are on offense, assuming the team is properly built around him.

Regardless of how talented he is, I think we have to be realistic with Mitch and not expect him to bring either of those things (playmaking and floor spacing) offensively long-term. We should hope that he does and give him room to grow, but we can't expect or count on the possibility that he'll ever expand his offensive repertoire in a way that remains efficient (the name of the game).

Although I'm not sold on him I can definitely see melo's point about drafting Wiseman, although that ship has sailed with the lottery results.

[thebuzzardman]

Once again, maybe the Rockets are the innovators that it takes the league 5 years to catch up to, in that they've discounted playing a traditional C at all

I'm sure they'd employ one if the guy could shoot 3's and they could go 5 out, but there are only a handful of 5's who stretch the floor that way

D'Antoni's dream of 5 guys, all 6'8" who can handle and shoot takes a step closer to reality

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Once again, maybe the Rockets are the innovators that it takes the league 5 years to catch up to, in that they've discounted playing a traditional C at all

I'm sure they'd employ one if the guy could shoot 3's and they could go 5 out, but there are only a handful of 5's who stretch the floor that way

D'Antoni's dream of 5 guys, all 6'8" who can handle and shoot takes a step closer to reality

I think the Celtics version of it is even better to be honest, 3 big wings that can all create off the dribble supplemented by a scoring PG, or sometimes the backup PG who can switch onto almost anyone (Marcus Smart). They have a low paid C that can switch on multiple people and hit the three.


They are the future of the league to me, while the Rockets an early attempt, the Celtics have literally 4 guys in their lineup who can drive, shoot, create or set someone up.

[DOT]

I think the message is confused in how OP is arguing both that Mitch's skillset just isn't valuable in today's game while also arguing that his skillset works, it's the price tag that doesn't

I agree with the second point, I think investing 20+ mil in a defensive rim runner, no matter how good, is very restrictive on your team. The first point I don't agree with, as OP even argues against it later on in his post

Mitch could absolutely be a starter on a good team. You can't build around him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value.

[FutureKnicksGM]

I think the message is confused in how OP is arguing both that Mitch's skillset just isn't valuable in today's game while also arguing that his skillset works, it's the price tag that doesn't

I agree with the second point, I think investing 20+ mil in a defensive rim runner, no matter how good, is very restrictive on your team. The first point I don't agree with, as OP even argues against it later on in his post

Mitch could absolutely be a starter on a good team. You can't build around him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value.

This. You need to put 5 guys out on the floor, they don’t all need to be ‘the guy’.

I know everyone wants to see his jumper in action, but I’m more than happy if it comes out the season after next, so Mitchell’s new deal in the summer won’t be near that $20 million mark.

[justin12140]

If he never gets better than what he is today, he is still a useful player to a playoff team. The issue is the price tag. For a guy with his skillset, you prob wouldn't want to pay more than 10 mil a year. Mitch is almost def getting more than that after this contract, and tbh, he deserves it. We aren't at the point where we have to start shelling out big bucks for our young guys. You might as well extend him for 4 years at a decent number and see if he can improve himself.

The shooting to me isn't even the biggest need for him. If he was able to take a dribble or two out of the short roll and make plays, that would open up a LOT for him and the team.

[Clyde_Style]

Writing the script on Mitch's future before you even get to see what Thibs and Payne and crew can do with Mitch is pointless IMO.

Not a single one of us knows what Mitch is going to be in 18-24 months. The guy is still super raw, yet super effective at what he does.

And if we do start to put solid three point shooting around Mitch then that rim running actually creates major spacing advantages. Recall how many defenses started sagging to stop Mitch from rolling to the rim and they still could stop not him from doing it or from scorring on putbacks.

When you have shooters and a threat like Mitch it spreads the defenders and keeps them guessing. That's what the right players and good coaching will do with a guy like Mitch even if his offensive range remains limited. It doesn't have to be him who is the three point threat as long as those threats are on the floor with him. It'd be nice if he can pop long, but it is not required with the right players and good schemes.

Instead of always trying to mimic the league, perhaps we should be acknowledging what a gem Mitch is and building with him in mind. He will start hitting bunnies. Maybe he'll shoot threes too. But just as important to his development will be his ability to draw defenders and make the right read on whether to make his move or pass to an open man on the weak side. I'm more concerned about his passing IQ than his jump shot really. That's why coaching will be critical before we judge his long-term potential to its fullest

[Capn'O]

I think everybody knows what I want to post here.

RESPONSE OPTION # 1:

Spoiler:

And/Or

RESPONSE OPTION # 2:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[RHODEY]

This is true. Gobert lack of skillset limits the offense; Tyson Chandler. I'm optimistic about Kenny Payne and Johnnie Bryant. They have history of developing players.. fix up an offensive toolset that fits Mitch.

Robinson with a jump shot and his athleticism is an all-star. A lot like Ben Simmons - the only way to see is to try it. Marc Gasol is about as good at 3's as Bobby Portis. Still good enough for Toronto to space the floor.

and that's why he shouldn't be limited to "best case Gobert 2.0" He's way more athletically gifted so that comparison falls short.

[Clyde_Style]

I think everybody knows what I want to post here.

RESPONSE OPTION # 1:

Spoiler:

And/Or

RESPONSE OPTION # 2:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is that

(1) Set Mitch free to shoot threes

or

(2) Let him go to a fanbase that appreciates him?

[RHODEY]

Writing the script on Mitch's future before you even get to see what Thibs and Payne and crew can do with Mitch is pointless IMO.

Not a single one of us knows what Mitch is going to be in 18-24 months. The guy is still super raw, yet super effective at what he does.

And if we do start to put solid three point shooting around Mitch then that rim running actually creates major spacing advantages. Recall how many defenses started sagging to stop Mitch from rolling to the rim and they still could stop not him from doing it or from scorring on putbacks.

When you have shooters and a threat like Mitch it spreads the defenders and keeps them guessing. That's what the right players and good coaching will do with a guy like Mitch even if his offensive range remains limited. It doesn't have to be him who is the three point threat as long as those threats are on the floor with him. It'd be nice if he can pop long, but it is not required with the right players and good schemes.

Instead of always trying to mimic the league, perhaps we should be acknowledging what a gem Mitch is and building with him in mind. He will start hitting bunnies. Maybe he'll shoot threes too. But just as important to his development will be his ability to draw defenders and make the right read on whether to make his move or pass to an open man on the weak side. I'm more concerned about his passing IQ than his jump shot really. That's why coaching will be critical before we judge his long-term potential to its fullest

Yes Dude is 21 and started playing bball in highschool , no college experience...dude is a mound of very talented clay. Give him some good coaching, some direction,.. and who the hell knows how good he can be?

[Capn'O]

RESPONSE OPTION # 1:

Spoiler:

And/Or

RESPONSE OPTION # 2:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Is that

(1) Set Mitch free to shoot threes

or

(2) Let him go to a fanbase that appreciates him?

Damnit.

Mitch needs to let it fly.

[Clyde_Style]

Spoiler:

Is that

(1) Set Mitch free to shoot threes

or

(2) Let him go to a fanbase that appreciates him?

Damnit.

Mitch needs to let it fly.

Spoiler:

my bad, wasn't sure

Spoiler:

that GIF makes me laugh, so I took the flimsiest of reasons to use it

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Writing the script on Mitch's future before you even get to see what Thibs and Payne and crew can do with Mitch is pointless IMO.

Not a single one of us knows what Mitch is going to be in 18-24 months. The guy is still super raw, yet super effective at what he does.

And if we do start to put solid three point shooting around Mitch then that rim running actually creates major spacing advantages. Recall how many defenses started sagging to stop Mitch from rolling to the rim and they still could stop not him from doing it or from scorring on putbacks.

When you have shooters and a threat like Mitch it spreads the defenders and keeps them guessing. That's what the right players and good coaching will do with a guy like Mitch even if his offensive range remains limited. It doesn't have to be him who is the three point threat as long as those threats are on the floor with him. It'd be nice if he can pop long, but it is not required with the right players and good schemes.

Instead of always trying to mimic the league, perhaps we should be acknowledging what a gem Mitch is and building with him in mind. He will start hitting bunnies. Maybe he'll shoot threes too. But just as important to his development will be his ability to draw defenders and make the right read on whether to make his move or pass to an open man on the weak side. I'm more concerned about his passing IQ than his jump shot really. That's why coaching will be critical before we judge his long-term potential to its fullest

I'm fairly confident in knowing what Mitch will be, I just don't see how he's any different than any number of rim rollers that have been in the league the last 15 years. He's not a better player at 21 than Andre Drummond was at the same age, and look at how that turned out for the Pistons, gave him the keys and maxed him out. He's still a rebounding monster, yet has no real place in the league now and got traded for a Microsoft Zune. The Rockets put so much shooting around Capella, and still traded him because ultimately in a playoff series good teams will switch on the screen and take their chances with a player like that trying to score against a big wing in the post.

I'm concerned about his entire offensive skillset, I've seen nothing from him that makes me think there's some versatile offensive player hiding in there. If he were a good freethrow shooter I'd be more confident about his potential to improve, but he's pretty poor from the line. I don't want to mimic the league, just the Celtics (Scoring pg, 3 big wings and a low salary center who can shoot/switch onto wings), do you think if 3 years from now that Brad Stevens wouldn't be able to gameplan someone like Mitch off the floor, assuming Mitch is a 13ppg, 14rpg type of guy.