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Re: Sexton Convo, Update PG: 15 - Knicks most aggressive suitor

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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#21 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:13 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:The major concern you would have is his defense. But in terms of what thibs likes in his guards (I wont call him a pg) but neither was Payton and Rose in his prime was never an elite distributor. Sexton can attack the basket. He is surprisingly very efficient...had over a 57% TS%. He is also excellent at getting to the FT line. And is nearly a 39% career shooter from 3.

He is actually a stones throw away from a 50/40/90 season which is elite category for a guard. If the cost is reasonable its worth a look.

Thibs would have to work on that defense though especially if he was defending the point of attack.


I think the bolded is a little bit overblown. He's been put in possibly the worst defensive situation for himself considering he's often asked to guard players bigger than him because Garland is even slighter than he is. Also the Cavs haven't had a good defensive infrastructure since LeBron left. Is he good? No... but he has the requisite effort level to be passable IMO and even though he's shorter he has a +6 wingspan which helps make up for some of those deficiencies. I think Thibs would find a way to utilize his strengths on both ends of the floor because he's exactly the type of guard he has always gotten the most out of.

Defense isn't my biggest concern because I think we can find a way around it ultimately. I think unlocking his playmaking is the biggest challenge. He's proven he can score at a almost an elite level, the next level is proving he can leverage that scoring ability into helping the team as a whole. Honestly his situation is kinda similar to Randle's coming into this past year. How can we turn a talented but flawed guy into a winning player?



See I'm not really worried about the playmaking because Thibs really doesn't need a playmaking PG. He thrived with rose as a 5-6 assist guy. Sexton was a 4.5 assist guy last year. And is pretty efficient with the ball. I agree that he has the athleticism and tools to at least be a respectable defender but the effort just hasn't been there. If Thibs ok it and says he can get him to a respectable level then I would be ok with the move.

I don't think we need 7+ assists from our point guard position since RJ and Randle have the ball at times too. Sexton is efficient with the rock which all that matters to me. If he wasn't scoring efficiently I would have more an issue with the assist numbers but he scores and gets to the FT line at a nice clip.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#22 » by Richard4444 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:13 pm

NYF13 wrote:Trae young is 180 pounds and 6 ft 1”
Sexton is 191 pounds and 6 ft 1”

Both play the PG position well. What makes Trae Young great is his natural shooting ability.

If Randle and RJ both improved their 3 pt shooting under this current coaching regime, May be Sexton will get better as a shooter.

If you can use 19, 21 and 32 to get Myles Turner and Colin Sexton then would you do it? Versus using the the picks to move up for a project like Giddy or Bouknight? Versus using them with more picks for 1 of the superstars - Beal/Kat/Dame??

We can speculate and wish as fans but the real negotiations are what makes the difference beteeen a good GM and a bad one.


Trae is a phenomenal passer as well.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#23 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:17 pm

DaGawd wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Short
Bad defender
Shot happy ball dominant PG

Sign me up

He’s 6’2 6’3.. not really short


He's listed as 6'1"

It wouldn't matter if he was a good defender, but he seems pretty bad/uninterested in playing defense whenever I've seen him.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#24 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:18 pm

god shammgod wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
he wants a max


he's not getting the max even if he wants it but even then. He is still under control for next year at a cheap cost so at least you would have a year to see what he does before you would have to pay him.


d'lo got a max. once you trade assets for a guy, you're almost locked into paying them to get something out of your investment. they're not gonna give him away.


I think D-lo got the max because of the unique situation where Golden State didn't want to lose KD for nothing. It was a unique situation where they knew he was going to the Nets and then figured lets get a player and we can always trade him...and they were right.

It don't think necessary they valued him as a max...they just valued not losing KD for nothing.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#25 » by Appleshampoo » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:19 pm

DaGawd wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol



Give me this kind of dog competitor on the Knicks all day!


Watching this game dumbfounded is the main reason I think I like this idea.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#26 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:19 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
DaGawd wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:Short
Bad defender
Shot happy ball dominant PG

Sign me up

He’s 6’2 6’3.. not really short


He's listed as 6'1"

It wouldn't matter if he was a good defender, but he seems pretty bad/uninterested in playing defense whenever I've seen him.


that is what Thibs would have to approve. Sometimes when you on a bad team you just are disinterested in defense...if thibs thinks he can unlock something then his offensive game is actually very valuable especially for what we are looking for.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#27 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:21 pm

DaGawd wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol



Give me this kind of dog competitor on the Knicks all day!

Sham feels some type of way about Sexton since he destroyed his Nets

Spoiler:
Sorry sham couldn’t resist. You make this too easy. Lol
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#28 » by Knicksfan1992 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:21 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:The major concern you would have is his defense. But in terms of what thibs likes in his guards (I wont call him a pg) but neither was Payton and Rose in his prime was never an elite distributor. Sexton can attack the basket. He is surprisingly very efficient...had over a 57% TS%. He is also excellent at getting to the FT line. And is nearly a 39% career shooter from 3.

He is actually a stones throw away from a 50/40/90 season which is elite category for a guard. If the cost is reasonable its worth a look.

Thibs would have to work on that defense though especially if he was defending the point of attack.


I think the bolded is a little bit overblown. He's been put in possibly the worst defensive situation for himself considering he's often asked to guard players bigger than him because Garland is even slighter than he is. Also the Cavs haven't had a good defensive infrastructure since LeBron left. Is he good? No... but he has the requisite effort level to be passable IMO and even though he's shorter he has a +6 wingspan which helps make up for some of those deficiencies. I think Thibs would find a way to utilize his strengths on both ends of the floor because he's exactly the type of guard he has always gotten the most out of.

Defense isn't my biggest concern because I think we can find a way around it ultimately. I think unlocking his playmaking is the biggest challenge. He's proven he can score at a almost an elite level, the next level is proving he can leverage that scoring ability into helping the team as a whole. Honestly his situation is kinda similar to Randle's coming into this past year. How can we turn a talented but flawed guy into a winning player?



See I'm not really worried about the playmaking because Thibs really doesn't need a playmaking PG. He thrived with rose as a 5-6 assist guy. Sexton was a 4.5 assist guy last year. And is pretty efficient with the ball. I agree that he has the athleticism and tools to at least be a respectable defender but the effort just hasn't been there. If Thibs ok it and says he can get him to a respectable level then I would be ok with the move.

I don't think we need 7+ assists from our point guard position since RJ and Randle have the ball at times too. Sexton is efficient with the rock which all that matters to me. If he wasn't scoring efficiently I would have more an issue with the assist numbers but he scores and gets to the FT line at a nice clip.


Your 2nd paragraph is spot on. Having multiple guys who can comfortably handle the ball and create for themselves and others seems to be soup de jour of the league today. Adding Sexton to Randle, RJ and the ultimate play finisher in Mitch is a slam dunk to me if you can do it for a price that's reasonable. Hopefully Knox and 2 1sts is enough. More likely Obi is going to be in the deal given how much we know Cleveland valued him last year :cry: . I have a soft spot for Obi lol

It would make your core 5 guys the following ages for the upcoming season:

Julius Randle (27)
Collin Sexton (22)
Rj Barrett (21)
Mitchell Robinson (23)
Immanuel Quickley (22)

That's about as good as you can get around the league right now for a young core IMO.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#29 » by GONYK » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:23 pm

Sexton will provide what Thibs pretended he was getting from Payton.

Is that good or worth what Sexton will need to get paid?

I don't think so
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#30 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:23 pm

god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol


He's got a lot of characteristics and personality traits of another player...one that used to play for the Knicks. Looks for towel...
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#31 » by GONYK » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:25 pm

god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol


For me that something is his general play on the court and his complete lack of interest in teammates :lol:
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#32 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:28 pm

GONYK wrote:Sexton will provide what Thibs pretended he was getting from Payton.

Is that good or worth what Sexton will need to get paid?

I don't think so


The main difference I see is

Catch and Shoot - He's got a +60% efg percentage when payton had a sub 45% efg perentage

FTA rate - Sexton nearly doubled paytons Free Throw attempt rate .342 vs .172

The defense is a concern but the offense is night and day. But lets be honest if his defense wasn't a concern there is no way he would be available for trade. Hoping that its more of a **** situation in CLE then a guy that just doesn't care about defense.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#33 » by Manhattan Project » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Man I remember when he was playing 4 on 5 in college and this board was losing it. You'd like to think he's the type of guy Thibs can get his hands on and really get him back to playing with intensity on defense. He's proven that he can score in this league, throwing aside what it would cost to get him, would you max him is the question? Doing that essentially locks you into a trio of Randle, Barrett and Sexton as the core for a long time.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#34 » by Appleshampoo » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:29 pm

moocow007 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol


He's got a lot of characteristics and personality traits of another player...one that used to play for the Knicks. Looks for towel...


Yes but Marbury walked into a bad situation. Sexton is a perfect fit for Thibodeau and a lot of times it takes a good situation to change a bad reputation.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#35 » by JBreezeNY » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Lol.....

I like sexton, incredible scorer but with all our needs, you want him?

Nah...this would be a mistake and set us back.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#36 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:29 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol


For me that something is his general play on the court and his complete lack of interest in teammates :lol:


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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#37 » by GONYK » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:30 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
GONYK wrote:Sexton will provide what Thibs pretended he was getting from Payton.

Is that good or worth what Sexton will need to get paid?

I don't think so


The main difference I see is

Catch and Shoot - He's got a +60% efg percentage when payton had a sub 45% efg perentage

FTA rate - Sexton nearly doubled paytons Free Throw attempt rate .342 vs .172

The defense is a concern but the offense is night and day. But lets be honest if his defense wasn't a concern there is no way he would be available for trade. Hoping that its more of a **** situation in CLE then a guy that just doesn't care about defense.


Even without his defensive concerns, how much are you willing to pay for that? Is Colin Sexton worth paying as a core player?
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#38 » by moocow007 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:30 pm

Appleshampoo wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:i don't know. i understand the concept that you have to trade for these kind of guys before they break out or they're not available, i just don't believe. something about him screams this is a mistake. lol


He's got a lot of characteristics and personality traits of another player...one that used to play for the Knicks. Looks for towel...


Yes but Marbury walked into a bad situation. Sexton is a perfect fit for Thibodeau and a lot of times it takes a good situation to change a bad reputation.


Possibly. Possibly. I think Sexton is getting a bad rap. But I don't think that it's all made up. But you might be right. They will do their homework I'm sure. Let's put it this way, if he didn't have warts there'd be no reason for the Cavs to even think about dealing him nor any shot of the Knicks getting him.
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#39 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:31 pm

Knicks need talent and Sexton is high end talent
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Re: Rumors building Sexton may be on the block. Good fit for NYK? 

Post#40 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:34 pm

GONYK wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
GONYK wrote:Sexton will provide what Thibs pretended he was getting from Payton.

Is that good or worth what Sexton will need to get paid?

I don't think so


The main difference I see is

Catch and Shoot - He's got a +60% efg percentage when payton had a sub 45% efg perentage

FTA rate - Sexton nearly doubled paytons Free Throw attempt rate .342 vs .172

The defense is a concern but the offense is night and day. But lets be honest if his defense wasn't a concern there is no way he would be available for trade. Hoping that its more of a **** situation in CLE then a guy that just doesn't care about defense.


Even without his defensive concerns, how much are you willing to pay for that? Is Colin Sexton worth paying as a core player?


his offensive numbers suggest he kinda is though. From every metric he has kinda been trending more in the Zach Lavine type. It would be a risk but if you get the guys before the blow up then the cost wont be as ridiculous. The team would have to believe in him. Since he is CAA my guess the knicks know what makes him tick.
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