Build a Franchise- Season 5 Discussion thread- Announcement on page 79

[mpharris36]

Hersports joined?

Nice, who she take over?

da bulls

[mpharris36]

Welcome HerSports! Great addition.

Welcome Her sports!!! Great addition!

[bishnykfan]

Where are we with the free agency process decision? Things are getting close.

After taking everything into consideration my preference is now:

• Private PM Bidding on Time Slots (w/ a maximum on the # of players a GM can bid on).

Full disclosure, I don't understand any of the FA process, list, or anything.

There are also a lot of discussions taking place about it that makes me even more confused.


So my goal is to just fill out my roster without needing to use it.

Free agency is designed so that the better franchises have a more realistic chance to sign the players they want. We determine a franchises desirability to impending free agents using four criteria.

1. Franchise success (how much winning has the team done in a three year period).
2. Star Player
3. Player happiness
4. Future (average age of top six players plus draft capital)

All of the categories are objective other than 3 (player happiness which has some subjectivity to it). Basically all teams are ranked in each of the four categories and placed in five tiers. Milwaukee ranked a 3 in winning franchise due to their overall record/playoff success in the last three seasons. You ranked a 4 in star player (Jimmy Butler). You ranked a 3 in player happiness and a 1 in future (2 first round picks/1 second round picks plus oldest top 6 in the league). Your 11 total points put you in tier 6 of the destination desirability list. Basically, Milwaukee is more desirable then the teams below it but less desirable of a location to teams above it on that final list.

The idea was to reward the better teams in FA to try and make it as real as possible. Free agents in the NBA generally go to the top teams. The draft is how the teams that don't win improve while free agency is more meant for the winning teams.

Of course money still talks and being lower on the list doesn't mean you can't sign anyone, it just means you would have to pay more than the teams above you on the list if you are both after the same player.

[Strick]

Welcome to BAF, HerSports!

[br7knicks]

Where are we with the free agency process decision? Things are getting close.

After taking everything into consideration my preference is now:

• Private PM Bidding on Time Slots (w/ a maximum on the # of players a GM can bid on).

Full disclosure, I don't understand any of the FA process, list, or anything.

There are also a lot of discussions taking place about it that makes me even more confused.


So my goal is to just fill out my roster without needing to use it.

Free agency is designed so that the better franchises have a more realistic chance to sign the players they want. We determine a franchises desirability to impending free agents using four criteria.

1. Franchise success (how much winning has the team done in a three year period).
2. Star Player
3. Player happiness
4. Future (average age of top six players plus draft capital)

All of the categories are objective other than 3 (player happiness which has some subjectivity to it). Basically all teams are ranked in each of the four categories and placed in five tiers. Milwaukee ranked a 3 in winning franchise due to their overall record/playoff success in the last three seasons. You ranked a 4 in star player (Jimmy Butler). You ranked a 3 in player happiness and a 1 in future (2 first round picks/1 second round picks plus oldest top 6 in the league). Your 11 total points put you in tier 6 of the destination desirability list. Basically, Milwaukee is more desirable then the teams below it but less desirable of a location to teams above it on that final list.

The idea was to reward the better teams in FA to try and make it as real as possible. Free agents in the NBA generally go to the top teams. The draft is how the teams that don't win improve while free agency is more meant for the winning teams.

Of course money still talks and being lower on the list doesn't mean you can't sign anyone, it just means you would have to pay more than the teams above you on the list if you are both after the same player.

ah, thank you, Bish. this helps with those lists.


i meant our FA process. but don't worry about it, i'll figure it out after the first day or so!

[3toheadmelo]

Where are we with the free agency process decision? Things are getting close.

After taking everything into consideration my preference is now:

• Private PM Bidding on Time Slots (w/ a maximum on the # of players a GM can bid on).

Full disclosure, I don't understand any of the FA process, list, or anything.

There are also a lot of discussions taking place about it that makes me even more confused.


So my goal is to just fill out my roster without needing to use it.

Free agency is designed so that the better franchises have a more realistic chance to sign the players they want. We determine a franchises desirability to impending free agents using four criteria.

1. Franchise success (how much winning has the team done in a three year period).
2. Star Player
3. Player happiness
4. Future (average age of top six players plus draft capital)

All of the categories are objective other than 3 (player happiness which has some subjectivity to it). Basically all teams are ranked in each of the four categories and placed in five tiers. Milwaukee ranked a 3 in winning franchise due to their overall record/playoff success in the last three seasons. You ranked a 4 in star player (Jimmy Butler). You ranked a 3 in player happiness and a 1 in future (2 first round picks/1 second round picks plus oldest top 6 in the league). Your 11 total points put you in tier 6 of the destination desirability list. Basically, Milwaukee is more desirable then the teams below it but less desirable of a location to teams above it on that final list.

The idea was to reward the better teams in FA to try and make it as real as possible. Free agents in the NBA generally go to the top teams. The draft is how the teams that don't win improve while free agency is more meant for the winning teams.

Of course money still talks and being lower on the list doesn't mean you can't sign anyone, it just means you would have to pay more than the teams above you on the list if you are both after the same player.

I am ranked third in star player with Jayson Tatum. I am not sure how that is objective.

[Fat]

Where are we with the free agency process decision? Things are getting close.

After taking everything into consideration my preference is now:

• Private PM Bidding on Time Slots (w/ a maximum on the # of players a GM can bid on).

Full disclosure, I don't understand any of the FA process, list, or anything.

There are also a lot of discussions taking place about it that makes me even more confused.


So my goal is to just fill out my roster without needing to use it.

Free agency is designed so that the better franchises have a more realistic chance to sign the players they want. We determine a franchises desirability to impending free agents using four criteria.

1. Franchise success (how much winning has the team done in a three year period).
2. Star Player
3. Player happiness
4. Future (average age of top six players plus draft capital)

All of the categories are objective other than 3 (player happiness which has some subjectivity to it). Basically all teams are ranked in each of the four categories and placed in five tiers. Milwaukee ranked a 3 in winning franchise due to their overall record/playoff success in the last three seasons. You ranked a 4 in star player (Jimmy Butler). You ranked a 3 in player happiness and a 1 in future (2 first round picks/1 second round picks plus oldest top 6 in the league). Your 11 total points put you in tier 6 of the destination desirability list. Basically, Milwaukee is more desirable then the teams below it but less desirable of a location to teams above it on that final list.

The idea was to reward the better teams in FA to try and make it as real as possible. Free agents in the NBA generally go to the top teams. The draft is how the teams that don't win improve while free agency is more meant for the winning teams.

Of course money still talks and being lower on the list doesn't mean you can't sign anyone, it just means you would have to pay more than the teams above you on the list if you are both after the same player.

For this bolded part realistically how much more?

[Capn'O]

I am ranked third in star player with Jayson Tatum. I am not sure how that is objective.

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

[3toheadmelo]

I am ranked third in star player with Jayson Tatum. I am not sure how that is objective.

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

[Deeeez Knicks]

ah, thank you, Bish. this helps with those lists.


i meant our FA process. but don't worry about it, i'll figure it out after the first day or so!

There are a bunch of rules in the rule section in the link below

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2099633

In the past we would PM bish a contract for a player (say 4/$50 for Eddy Curry). Quick note, a 4 year offer will beat a 1 year offer. So you can reduce salary by offering more years or you have to offer more for a 1 year deal. That is also where bird right players have an advantage since they can offer 5 year deals. Otherwise its a 4 year max contract.

Bish will PM back to confirm that you are in the lead or if the offer is not good enough he will PM you what contract it would take to beat the offer. Bish then posts on the page that Eddy Curry has an offer and he will post a time for when it will become official. Both the contract and team are private so nobody knows. I believe the time is 6 hours, but the clock stops overnight. If nobody beats it within that time he will sign with you. If someone PMs a better offer within that 6 hours then bish will PM you that your offer is beat and what it will take to beat that offer. Then the clock starts over at 6 hours at the time bish posts it on the free agent page. (someone may need to confirm that 6 hour clock)

For small free agent classes it worked well. Last year was a bigger free agent class so there was a ton of PMs especially that first day. Many are just checking prices. But it created a huge backlog for bish to check pms, update offers, send pms, etc. Just a lot of work and chaos with so many players getting bids at once from a lot of teams.

That is where the idea for a spreadsheet came in where everyone can at least check offers live and also some freeze periods to give bish time to catch up. It should save at least a few pms and back and forths and give you at least a general idea for the contract needed. Sounds like the details are still being worked out...but just a general idea of the past free agency system and what is being discussed.

[Capn'O]

I am ranked third in star player with Jayson Tatum. I am not sure how that is objective.

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The objective ranking is where the SIM has him and what I'm saying is last year's Sim ranking isn't far off from where Tatum is typically ranked. There's a fair amount of consensus on his range.

Butler got a bump after last season (Sim Ranking) but guys like Booker, Beal, and even Paul George might be ahead of him this year. In fact, for win shares. VORP, and PER Tatum wouldn't even be the highest ranked player on your own team based on this past season

[bishnykfan]

I am ranked third in star player with Jayson Tatum. I am not sure how that is objective.

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The site that I have used since the beginning of BaF had Tatum ranked in the third group for our purposes. It is objective as in the fact that it is a well known site and I have nothing to say about it. I'm not sure how it can be more objective? If you want me to make the list myself then that would put a ton of subjectivity into it which I have avoided since day one. Tatum is ranked #17 in the ringer, #13 on nbcsports, #18 on persports, #28 on 538sports, #14 on insider etc...He is right there in that 3/4 range but the list that I use and have always used has him in the third group.

None of those sites are where I get the rankings from but just a quick google search brought up those results. I am sure you could make the argument for Tatum as a top 12 player but to say it's unquestionable isn't true. As Cap said, most sites had him in the third tier. I'm not sure why the list we've used has no credibility because you don't like where Tatum ended. It's now year four and I don't recall a major push to change the way that star player has been rated before.

[3toheadmelo]

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The objective ranking is where the SIM has him and what I'm saying is last year's Sim ranking isn't far off from where Tatum is typically ranked. There's a fair amount of consensus on his range.

Butler got a bump after last season (Sim Ranking) but guys like Booker, Beal, and even Paul George might be ahead of him this year. In fact, for win shares. VORP, and PER Tatum wouldn't even be the highest ranked player on your own team based on this past season

Unlike Beal and Booker, Tatum is a pretty good defender. Booker and Beal are below average defenders. Pandemic P def aint better than Tatum. You know that too bro. I can lay down the stats too.

The objective ranking is where the SIM has him and what I'm saying is last year's Sim ranking isn't far off from where Tatum is typically ranked.

The SIM has him as one of the best players in the NBA which he is. So shouldn't he be getting the same respect in the star player rating? That is the only objective way. Going off LAST year makes no sense to me.

If we going off win shares, Deandre Ayton has the highest win shares in the whole league in the playoffs. That means I should be #5 off rip

[3toheadmelo]

Most lists have Tatum around 15, give or take. That would put you square in the middle. Your strength is you have several players in the 15-40 range.

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The site that I have used since the beginning of BaF had Tatum ranked in the third group for our purposes. It is objective as in the fact that it is a well known site and I have nothing to say about it. I'm not sure how it can be more objective? If you want me to make the list myself then that would put a ton of subjectivity into it which I have avoided since day one. Tatum is ranked #17 in the ringer, #13 on nbcsports, #18 on persports, #28 on 538sports, #14 on insider etc...He is right there in that 3/4 range but the list that I use and have always used has him in the third group.

None of those sites are where I get the rankings from but just a quick google search brought up those results. I am sure you could make the argument for Tatum as a top 12 player but to say it's unquestionable isn't true. As Cap said, most sites had him in the third tier. I'm not sure why the list we've used has no credibility because you don't like where Tatum ended. It's now year four and I don't recall a major push to change the way that star player has been rated before.

Again, you are using a bunch of lists that are opinionated from people. That's clearly subjective. Just because they are "well known" that does not mean it is objective at all. for example, a well known draft site nbadraft.net had deshawn stevenson as the next Jordan. Whether a site is well known or unknown doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the people making those lists are people just like us. Using their opinions to make it. So whatever site you are using is subjective. What site is it by the way?

If you were to create star player rankings, shouldn't it go based off the SIM ratings? that is the only objective way I see it. using lists from a bunch of random people that are using their own opinions with biases is not objective at all.

[bishnykfan]

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The site that I have used since the beginning of BaF had Tatum ranked in the third group for our purposes. It is objective as in the fact that it is a well known site and I have nothing to say about it. I'm not sure how it can be more objective? If you want me to make the list myself then that would put a ton of subjectivity into it which I have avoided since day one. Tatum is ranked #17 in the ringer, #13 on nbcsports, #18 on persports, #28 on 538sports, #14 on insider etc...He is right there in that 3/4 range but the list that I use and have always used has him in the third group.

None of those sites are where I get the rankings from but just a quick google search brought up those results. I am sure you could make the argument for Tatum as a top 12 player but to say it's unquestionable isn't true. As Cap said, most sites had him in the third tier. I'm not sure why the list we've used has no credibility because you don't like where Tatum ended. It's now year four and I don't recall a major push to change the way that star player has been rated before.

Again, you are using a bunch of lists that are opinionated from people. That's clearly subjective. Just because they are "well known" that does not mean it is objective at all. for example, a well known draft site nbadraft.net had deshawn stevenson as the next Jordan. Whether a site is well known or unknown doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the people making those lists are people just like us. Using their opinions to make it. So whatever site you are using is subjective. What site is it by the way?

If you were to create star player rankings, shouldn't it go based off the SIM ratings? that is the only objective way I see it. using lists from a bunch of random people that are using their own opinions with biases is not objective at all.

Every list is compiled by people unless you go to a strictly stat based list. Which stat should we use if that is the case? Sim rankings are a year old when they come out...doing it based on sim rankings now for FA for the upcoming season puts it as two years old. How is that better than using a current "subjective" list? Every argument you have made for Tatum is subjective.

The sim rankings are compiled by people too btw...I'm pretty sure their is some subjectivity to them.

[Capn'O]

So going off random subjective lists with no credibility makes this objective? That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see a clear argument for Jimmy Butler over Jayson Tatum right now either way.

The objective ranking is where the SIM has him and what I'm saying is last year's Sim ranking isn't far off from where Tatum is typically ranked. There's a fair amount of consensus on his range.

Butler got a bump after last season (Sim Ranking) but guys like Booker, Beal, and even Paul George might be ahead of him this year. In fact, for win shares. VORP, and PER Tatum wouldn't even be the highest ranked player on your own team based on this past season

Unlike Beal and Booker, Tatum is a pretty good defender. Booker and Beal are below average defenders. Pandemic P def aint better than Tatum. You know that too bro. I can lay down the stats too.

The objective ranking is where the SIM has him and what I'm saying is last year's Sim ranking isn't far off from where Tatum is typically ranked.

The SIM has him as one of the best players in the NBA which he is. So shouldn't he be getting the same respect in the star player rating? That is the only objective way. Going off LAST year makes no sense to me.

If we going off win shares, Deandre Ayton has the highest win shares in the whole league in the playoffs. That means I should be #5 off rip

Tatum has yet to put up a year that statistically approaches George's 2019 campaign in any way. This being the most recent season George was a #1. Most other years they're neck and neck. But I'm not out here whining about my ranking.

There's no objective measure to put him in that top tier of players you want him to be in. He's right where he should be.

[3toheadmelo]

The site that I have used since the beginning of BaF had Tatum ranked in the third group for our purposes. It is objective as in the fact that it is a well known site and I have nothing to say about it. I'm not sure how it can be more objective? If you want me to make the list myself then that would put a ton of subjectivity into it which I have avoided since day one. Tatum is ranked #17 in the ringer, #13 on nbcsports, #18 on persports, #28 on 538sports, #14 on insider etc...He is right there in that 3/4 range but the list that I use and have always used has him in the third group.

None of those sites are where I get the rankings from but just a quick google search brought up those results. I am sure you could make the argument for Tatum as a top 12 player but to say it's unquestionable isn't true. As Cap said, most sites had him in the third tier. I'm not sure why the list we've used has no credibility because you don't like where Tatum ended. It's now year four and I don't recall a major push to change the way that star player has been rated before.

Again, you are using a bunch of lists that are opinionated from people. That's clearly subjective. Just because they are "well known" that does not mean it is objective at all. for example, a well known draft site nbadraft.net had deshawn stevenson as the next Jordan. Whether a site is well known or unknown doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the people making those lists are people just like us. Using their opinions to make it. So whatever site you are using is subjective. What site is it by the way?

If you were to create star player rankings, shouldn't it go based off the SIM ratings? that is the only objective way I see it. using lists from a bunch of random people that are using their own opinions with biases is not objective at all.

Every list is compiled by people unless you go to a strictly stat based list. Which stat should we use if that is the case? Sim rankings are a year old when they come out...doing it based on sim rankings now for FA for the upcoming season puts it as two years old. How is that better than using a current "subjective" list? Every argument you have made for Tatum is subjective.

The sim rankings are compiled by people too btw...I'm pretty sure their is some subjectivity to them.

Every list is compiled by people unless you go to a strictly stat based list.

So you're admitting that your list is subjective then and not objective. That's all i needed to hear. Also what site are you using?

[Buzzard]

Welcome HerSports85! I am new also and this league is crazy active. Right now there is a trade freeze but it will be lifted on the 24th. My team is the Pacers. I have picks 13 and 17. If you see a potential trade hit me up and we can start negotiating now before draft night. Good luck this season.

[bishnykfan]

Again, you are using a bunch of lists that are opinionated from people. That's clearly subjective. Just because they are "well known" that does not mean it is objective at all. for example, a well known draft site nbadraft.net had deshawn stevenson as the next Jordan. Whether a site is well known or unknown doesn't really matter because at the end of the day the people making those lists are people just like us. Using their opinions to make it. So whatever site you are using is subjective. What site is it by the way?

If you were to create star player rankings, shouldn't it go based off the SIM ratings? that is the only objective way I see it. using lists from a bunch of random people that are using their own opinions with biases is not objective at all.

Every list is compiled by people unless you go to a strictly stat based list. Which stat should we use if that is the case? Sim rankings are a year old when they come out...doing it based on sim rankings now for FA for the upcoming season puts it as two years old. How is that better than using a current "subjective" list? Every argument you have made for Tatum is subjective.

The sim rankings are compiled by people too btw...I'm pretty sure their is some subjectivity to them.

Every list is compiled by people unless you go to a strictly stat based list.

So you're admitting that your list is subjective then and not objective. That's all i needed to hear. Also what site are you using?

Oh for **** sake, it’s objective in that I had nothing to do with it. No input from me was given for the list. I figured most people understood that after three off seasons but maybe not?

Obviously any list or ranking will be subjective in that someone had to **** rank them unless you use a strictly stat based ranking. Please give me a top 50 list that wasn’t made by a person and that all 30 people will agree to as totally objective and I’ll use it.

As to the site I use, that will remain hidden. I will not let it influence people as to how they build their teams. In three offseasons this hasn’t been an issue. And now in year four one team seems to have a problem even while other GMs are saying it’s pretty accurate. I get you aren’t happy with it but it is what it is. Find me that completely objective list that has no human input to it and I’ll use it moving forward if everyone else agrees.

[Capn'O]

Melo looking at Basketball Reference RN: