Kenny Smith & Charles Barkley Are Right, We Are Mid & Need To Make A Major Move

[Jeffrey]

Some of y'all are seriously narrowminded. Stop asking for "the draft will save us". So you want us to tear everything down and rebuild AGAIN?! Or are you seriously hoping for the 1st pick overall and it will immediately ascend to championship level a few years after that.

It's not about getting the top picks year after year... but FCKING PICK BETTER. We did a rebuild and have had numerous top 10 picks... how many worked out? Or you guys thin that it was not a "true rebuild" cuz we didn't get multipe 1st overall picks. That's not how any of this sh.it works.

[god shammgod]

Oh gimme a **** break. This thread is reactionary BS. We're 11th in offense, 8th in defense, 7th in SRS. That's not a "mid" team. We lost to a good team last night and we've beaten good teams this season. We have a legitimate star in brunson who still doesn't get the respect he deserves. It's a good roster and there's still room for improvement.

On the surface that sounds and looks great…when you dig a little deeper and watch the games, the team just isn't a contender, the team has peaked & is on a treadmill. Is what it is.

Another regime wasting 4 years of our lives. Yay.

and it's a very hard situation to improve from. we're just waiting round hoping to bring in one of the top players in the game who are close to impossible to get. when people are saying that a donovan mitchell level player is not good enough to make us a contender, which may very well be true, it shows you how difficult it is to turn this unit into one. how many players could the knicks trade for that would turn them into one ? 5 ? 6 ? good luck with that.

[sol537]

Given the circumstances of the last decade+ this is probably the best route we could go right now. Being good enough to be competitive and no longer a doormat.... waiting, like Toronto did during their title run, for the right guy to become available is not the worst idea. At least one or two big names get trades every single year. We almost got Spida. We'll get someone within the next 8-10 months... I'm pretty sure of that.

[DrCoach]

Duh

But that doesnt mean trading 5 picks for derozan or mitchell

We need to draft well, make solid signings and keep moving forward

A star may want to sign here as well

[cgmw]

Oh gimme a **** break. This thread is reactionary BS. We're 11th in offense, 8th in defense, 7th in SRS. That's not a "mid" team. We lost to a good team last night and we've beaten good teams this season. We have a legitimate star in brunson who still doesn't get the respect he deserves. It's a good roster and there's still room for improvement.

Stop with your logic and data-driven facts!

Honestly, the real headline should read —“Will mainstream media pressure provoke Dolan into forcing Leon to make the next Marbury/Melo trade?”

Because having the best player on the floor for 50% of games really worked out great for us in the '00s and '10s.

[Jeffrey]

Our next logical fcking step is to get another player that can score. Does it have to be better than Brunson? No. Does it have to be better than Randle? No.

As for the "tank commanders". You know how many fcking players we lost out because we couldn't draft correctly? The only players that we draft correctly in the top 10 was KP and RJ.

2020 Draft - Obi Toppin # 8 - missed out on Tyrese Haliburton. We needed a PG at the time but we instead drafted a PF that was already blocked by Randle

2019 Draft - RJ Barrett #3 - missed out on Garland? I'm not sure if Garland was even a consideration. The right pick

2018 Draft - Kevin Knox #8 - missed out on SGA, Mikal Bridges, MPJr. I know we were in conversations for any of these guys at the time

2017 Draft - Frank Ntilikina # 8 - missed out on Bam and Mitchell. We were in conversation about Donovon at the time

2015 Draft - KP # 3 - the right pick

The last 8 drafts we had 5 top 10 picks.. and we missed out on 3. Not about where you draft but how you draft. And yes, I'll play armchair GM because I'm not the one who is getting paid to be the GM.

[DOT]

The funniest thing to me is that people still think tanking is just having a draft pick in the lottery, despite numerous times having it explained to them the difference between tanking and just sucking

It's either they're just truly that dumb that they can't grasp the concept, or they're just pretending to be that dumb because they think it'll win them the argument

Either way, they just come across as dumb, so it's a rather moot point.

[Galvationknicks]

Cam and Obi to Vegas.

They'll probably go hang out at the tables and talk Thibs

[cgmw]

The funniest thing to me is that people still think tanking is just having a draft pick in the lottery, despite numerous times having it explained to them the difference between tanking and just sucking

It's either they're just truly that dumb that they can't grasp the concept, or they're just pretending to be that dumb because they think it'll win them the argument

Either way, they just come across as dumb, so it's a rather moot point.

Not to mention the slight problem of management whose only interest in the draft is:

A) Getting a “win now” role player for a non-winning team; or

B) Getting trade assets for a delusional “win now” veteran savior who’s never coming.

A systematic commitment to actual greatness would look very different than the horsesh*t MSG has put out for the past nearly 30 years now.

[Woodsanity]

We need a superstar.

There have been a few superstars like Haliburton we missed via draft. Yes I believe Haliburton is a superstar this season.

Its not easy to trade for one. Draft well or wait till one becomes available.

[Capn'O]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

[HarthorneWingo]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

Obi instead of Haliburton

[Synciere]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

We've definitely missed a few All NBA players. Spida, Shai, Bam, Hali... it's almost laughable.

[nykballa2k4]

Oh gimme a **** break. This thread is reactionary BS. We're 11th in offense, 8th in defense, 7th in SRS. That's not a "mid" team. We lost to a good team last night and we've beaten good teams this season. We have a legitimate star in brunson who still doesn't get the respect he deserves. It's a good roster and there's still room for improvement.

On the surface that sounds and looks great…when you dig a little deeper and watch the games, the team just isn't a contender, the team has peaked & is on a treadmill. Is what it is.

Another regime wasting 4 years of our lives. Yay.

4th seed and lots of assets is not a bad place to be laying in wait...

[F N 11]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

Leon Rose and Thibs went anti draft after 1 draft lol.

[MrDollarBills]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

Leon Rose and Thibs went anti draft after 1 draft lol.

I understand the idea of wanting to use picks as trade chips. The draft is a crap shoot. But there has to be a developmental pipeline put in place via the draft and g league. The team has to find good prospects to develop. Doesn't matter if it's mid to late first or 2nd round.

That's a good way to find diamonds in the rough that might be able to contribute on cheap salary.

[knicks94]

We gots to make a move and make it soon.
We gots to take a block and make it boom.

[HopelessKnick]

Learn to DRAFT.

Stop giving away picks.

Obi instead of Haliburton

Add to that the fact we actually needed a PG, not a PF at that time. Makes it almost hilarious.

[HopelessKnick]

I've said this since training camp: the roster needs to add another 3/4 that can space and rebound. But otherwise, this seems like a typical overreaction from the usual pundits whose opinions age like 3 month old 2% milk and change like the wind.

The Knicks are the 11th best offensive club in the league with the 8th ranked defense. That isn't mid, it's pretty damn good.

RJ shaking off whatever is bothering him and getting back to his form earlier this season will go a long way imo. Also, Knicks will probably be buyers during the buyout market scramble. Til then, if there isn't a sensible move out there to be made, and I don't see one right now (hard pass on any of Chicago's players), staying patient and continuing to build with this group is the right call.

this is pretty much it, there’s no real sensible move to be made right now. sure the knicks def have to get another legit star player next to brunson hopefully sooner than later, but right now that guy isn’t available, i wish kenny and chuck would’ve said who they think that guy is they think the knicks should trade for that’s available instead of just making blanket declarations about the knicks needing to make a move when there isn’t one to make right now

Exactly.

People can sit and say Knicks need to go trade for a star, but they can't even name a target. Zach LaVine isn't what this roster needs, and DeRozan is a terrible fit. Who else is available? It's only December...no one is trying to blow up their season yet. Be patient.

The team is three games back from the #1 seed in the East. Philly is like a half game ahead of the Knicks. Last night in the 2nd half vs MIL sucked balls yeah, but it's irrelevant, the team isn't going to shoot that badly every night. The Knicks are solid on both ends. That's what matters.

The team needs to continue to get better as a group, which they are when you consider how the defense looked last year compared to today, while the front office does their due diligence behind the scenes.

It depends on how you really want to view it. I could say that for his 3 year tenure here, Rose has only made one really good move and that is signing Brunson. Granted, Brunson was a really really good move and you gotta give credit for it. However, he really hasn't done anything else. On top of that, during his tenure here, all-star and superstar players were either rumored to be available or really got moved: Haliburton, Mitchell, Bridges,KAT, SGA. In contrast to past regimes, Rose has had a full war chest to trade for one but he failed repeatedly. He is a scared type guy that is mainly interested in keeping his job and not making a mistake that could cost him his job. It is not the type of personality that wins in the NBA. People are starting to sense that and it is why more people are getting on his back and are starting to get impatient. Most great teams either draft and develop well or they make a really bold move at some point. I can't think of a recent title contending team that didn't do either and still ended up contending. Rose has shown ineptitude in drafting. And his personality seems to prohibit him from making a bold move.

[Jalen Bluntson]

this is pretty much it, there’s no real sensible move to be made right now. sure the knicks def have to get another legit star player next to brunson hopefully sooner than later, but right now that guy isn’t available, i wish kenny and chuck would’ve said who they think that guy is they think the knicks should trade for that’s available instead of just making blanket declarations about the knicks needing to make a move when there isn’t one to make right now

Exactly.

People can sit and say Knicks need to go trade for a star, but they can't even name a target. Zach LaVine isn't what this roster needs, and DeRozan is a terrible fit. Who else is available? It's only December...no one is trying to blow up their season yet. Be patient.

The team is three games back from the #1 seed in the East. Philly is like a half game ahead of the Knicks. Last night in the 2nd half vs MIL sucked balls yeah, but it's irrelevant, the team isn't going to shoot that badly every night. The Knicks are solid on both ends. That's what matters.

The team needs to continue to get better as a group, which they are when you consider how the defense looked last year compared to today, while the front office does their due diligence behind the scenes.

It depends on how you really want to view it. I could say that for his 3 year tenure here, Rose has only made one really good move and that is signing Brunson. Granted, Brunson was a really really good move and you gotta give credit for it. However, he really hasn't done anything else. On top of that, during his tenure here, all-star and superstar players were either rumored to be available or really got moved: Haliburton, Mitchell, Bridges,KAT, SGA. In contrast to past regimes, Rose has had a full war chest to trade for one but he failed repeatedly. He is a scared type guy that is mainly interested in keeping his job and not making a mistake that could cost him his job. It is not the type of personality that wins in the NBA. People are starting to sense that and it is why more people are getting on his back and are starting to get impatient. Most great teams either draft and develop well or they make a really bold move at some point. I can't think of a recent title contending team that didn't do either and still ended up contending. Rose has shown ineptitude in drafting. And his personality seems to prohibit him from making a bold move.

None of the players you mentioned were available to the Knicks at any point except for DM. So what trades did he fail to make repeatedly? DM was not worth the ask and we may still get him next year for less. You're just making up a list of names we never had a shot at and then complaining we didn't get them.

During his three year tenure here they went to the playoffs twice and made the second round last season. This entire team except Mitch/RJ was built by Rose. They are a playoff level team. What more is he supposed to do? After 24 years of suffering with no playoffs and no PG Rose has been the best GM the team has had. The team is in the best position moving forward that it has been in in decades.

The draft? Obi over Hali and punting twice leaves a sting. I'll give you that. IQ /Grimes/Deuce/Sims/Euro stash are the other late round picks they made. I'm not enamored by their draft approach but, there was only one real blunder in there.

No one wanted to come here forever because we were the worst team in the league for over 2 decades. Now we are building a playoff culture to attract stars when they become available. We have assets to go after them when they do. That's all there is to say about Rose. He definitely made some mistakes, as all GMs do but, all that you said is unrealistic bordering on lies.