knicks94 wrote:Jeffrey wrote:What fck this team was the fact that the front office thought their job was done and found Ewing's robin from the fringes of the NBA. It's not Starks fault but all on the front office thinking that was enough.
You can blame Ernie Grunfeld for what you just stated. I really cannot comprehend why some Knicks fans have overrated him over the years. I guess compared to Layden, Zeke, and Mills he was Jerry West.
The guy had an entire decade to build a roster around Ewing that could win a title and failed to do so. Replacing Xavier McDaniel with Charles Smith and choosing Allan Houston over Reggie Miller were fireable offenses.
I think it's harder to build a team than a lot of people realize or maybe they realize it, but often forget when they criticize GMs.
Was Ewing a top 10 player in his prime? He was close. But this is the thing, even today, there's only a handful of guys you can "build a championship team" around.
Jokic - maybe the best player in the NBA
Lebron - a few years ago
Giannis
But even then, it usually takes 2 guys. Dallas has Doncic and Irving, AND a good supporting cast. Or it takes an entire roster that works together.
Boston has an entire team of talented starters and great chemistry.
Jokic, I believe, has lead his team to the finals mostly on his talent. Giannis too. But guys like that are rare. Ewing was never that good.
Utah had Malone, Stockton and Hornicek . . . and solid role players and never won a title.
Jordan had Pippen, Cartwright, later Rodman, Kerr shooting 3s. Solid support.
Houston had Olajuwan, who I think was better than Ewing, Horry, Cassell . . . a better supporting cast.
Ewing eventually got Houston, Spreewell, later Camby (for Oakley and Ewing was well past his prime at that point). Mason was around during Ewing's prime and Mason was probably better than LJ, at least, for a few years, though Ewing and Mase didn't get along.
Xavier McDaniel was perhaps the best acquisition NY made though his knees were pointing towards a short career and he was only here one season, but he was a great fit on that team. Tough, offensively and defensively solid. Knew his role.
Prime Ewing never had the players around him. Old Ewing, perhaps did, but he wasn't the same at that point.
Now, a word on Grunfeld, I think he tried. Every GM makes mistakes.
88-89, the Pitino Knicks, Ewing was the man, and they had a roster of "lets just hoist 3s" to support him. Mark Jackson, Gerald Wilkins, Johnny Newman, Trend Trucker (the bomb squad) - none of those guys were really good, but they were a good fit with Ewing. Oak was there for rebounds and enforcing in the paint and it was a solid team. 52 wins. They were "upset" by the bulls in the playoffs that year, but lets be fair. That 47 win 88-89 Bulls team was so so so much better than they appeared. They upset the 57 win Cavs before upsetting the Knicks and they took the best team in the NBA, the Pistons, to 6 games. Other than those 2 chicago wins, that Pistons team was undefeated in the playoffs. OK, granted, Magic Johnson basically missed the finals with a hamstring strain, so the 4-0 series against LA was a bit unfair, but the 88-89 Bulls team had the core that would take Detroit to 7 games the following year, then win 3 titles in a row.
After the Pistons and the Lakers when Magic could play, the Bulls, I would say, 88-89, were the 3rd best team in the league. Maybe the Cavs, but certainly top 4, even with 47 wins.
So . . . 88-89 Knicks. Ewing, Oakley and Scrubs, but scrubs who could hit 3s and be solid role players. Rick Pitino getting the most of them, and Grunfeld trades a draft pick for Kiki Vandasomebody.
With respect, Vandasomebody used to be a good player. There was a time when he'd have been perfect next to Ewing, if he had been 5 or 7 years younger, but Vandasomebody was too old, and he didn't help much.
Trading for Vandaway was the wrong move. He was too old and they could have used that draft pick for something else. Maybe they draft Cliff Robertson who went 36. Probably not. They were looking for a shooter not a PF/C/Tweeter/whatever Cliff was. Maybe they draft Sherman Douglass, who would have been a solid PG for them. Most picks dont' work out, especially in the 20s where this pick would have been, but it was still a wasted asset.
89-90 The Stu Jackson series. Don't remind me. OK, they weren't that bad, but this was no longer the fun Pitino team that I loved, even though it was mostly the same players.
And Grunfeld traded the gifted but not always in shape, back up Rod Strickland for Mo Cheeks, the veteran, to perhaps start in place of Mark Jackson . . . why Ernie, why? OK, none of us knew what Rod Strickland would become, but for the 2nd year in a row, Ernie trades young for old, because he wants to win now.
The 89-90 Knicks weren't fun. Yes, they stunned the Celtics in the playoffs that year and . . . I remember that. Bird was on his last legs (last backs?) so to speak, but Boston was still favored and Bird said he expected to win that series and they just couldn't make up the points in game 5. Great series, downer season. After Boston, NY gets stomped by the Pistons, 4 games to 1.
90-91, 39 wins. Rod Strickland is already better than any guard we've had for the last 2 years. Knicks draft Jerrod Mustaf at 17. (that was a miss). Nobody's going to get the draft right every time. It's hard to pick the one of the top 3 or 4 players remaining, but they could have drafted Dee Brown, or maybe Elden Campbell. I don't think they were watching Toni Kukoc, so probably not him.
Good news from 90-91, Stu gets fired. Starks makes the team, which was more luck than good scouting. Starks might have been cut if he didn't get injured in pre-season so they had to stash him. No big moves by Ernie.
OK, 91-92, time to get excited. This was a fun off-season.
with 39 wins the year before, NY drafts early and picks Greg Anthony - and there was much rejoycing. UNLV PG of the future. Terrell Brandon was better, but he went #11 and the fans at draft night went wild - the Knicks got their guy. Greg **** Anthony. That scrub.
Antony was fine for a #12 pick, better than average, but what he wasn't, was a difference maker, like Terrell Brandon at 11 or Dale Davis at 13, but look, I can't fault Grunny from drafting Anthony. I might have done the same. A lot of people would have picked him there.
The 91-92 Knicks also hired Pat Riley and they traded a draft pick for (remember, his Knees were bad), Xavier McDaniel. And, as luck would have it, they found Anthony Mason that off season and invited him over. Mason had been drafted in the 3rd round by Portland 3 years earlier, then bounced around NJ and Denver, playing garbage time only. I don't know if it was good scouting or luck, but Mason joined Riley and McDaniel with Starks getting more minutes and ending up the 2nd leading scorer on that team, 13.9 pts in 25 MPG.
So, fun team. Ewing, Oak, Mase, X-man, Starks, they still needed a PG, with Mark Jackson and rookie Greg Anthony, but there was hope. FInding Starks and Mason basically as castaways is something good teams do. They started to look like something real and took the mighty bulls (67 wins and finals winners) to 7 games. Fans were excited.
Then, going into 92-93, Ernie does a big trade.
They lose McDaniel, who was going down hill anyway because of his knees, but they wanted him, but McDaniel's agent was also Jordan's agent and he did Jordan a solid.
The 92-93 Knicks traded for Charles Smith. The Knicks also got Doc Rivers (and Bo Kimble - but he wasn't a factor), for Mark Jackson and a 2nd round pick. Smith (knees) also wasn't the player he used to be, but still, exciting. Adding a player like Smith. An offensive weapon averaging nearly 20 PPG and #3 pick 4 years earlier.
They also swapped a 2nd rounder for Tony Campbell who was a solid depth scoring option and they traded a future first for 33 year old Ro Blackman.
Say what you want, but going into this season, even though they lost x-man who they might have kept if Jordan's agent didn't tell him to take the Boston deal (NY would have matched, maybe better). Going into this season, they add Charles Smith, Ro Blackman, Doc RIvers, and Tony Campbell, and they lose X-man and Mark Jackson . . . and they add Pat Riley and find Anthony Mason (and they have young players John Starks and Greg Anthony . . . who was still, maybe, something).
this was an exciting time to be a knicks fan. 60 wins, home court advantage, but they can't beat the bulls. Lose 4-2. Smith can't make a layup. Tough series. They were in it though. They didn't get manhandled, they played the Bulls hard. So, give them credit.
Flaws. Riley didn't like Ro Blackman. Charles Smith (knees) showed up out of shape and couldn't even hold down the starting job for the start of the season. But Mase was Riley's guy. Starks was fun and they challenged.
93-94. Smith is a year older and a year more broken. Ro Blackman spends most of the year on the bench, NY is good, they have the same core. Ewing, Oak, Mason, Starks, (Doc Rivers, Greg Anthony, they draft Hubert Davis who they are excited about) - Spreewell was drafted a pick later, but nobody knew who Spreewell was. The draft announcers on TV said "who?" - really. That's what they said when Spree was drafted by GS.
They brought in ANthony Bonner who was fun, but it was basically the big for, Ewing, Oak, Mase Stars and filler, and . . . Michael Jordan is playing baseball - Knicks have a shot. Charles SMith is basically playing with a walker at this point, so they're not exactly looking like a title team, but the East is open. Riley has the Knicks playing physical and mid-season a miracle happens. They trade Tony Campbell and a first round pick for Derick Harper - the perfect addition. OK. The East is ours. The West . . . maybe not, but at least the path to the finals looks open.
And we all know what happens. A young scrappy Indiana team Reggie Millered us with 8 pts in 8 seconds and 25 pts in another quarter and we barely get past Indy, and lets not forget the "gift" free throws to Hubert Davis to help us get past a Jorden-less Chicago team that arguably should have won that series. NY's open road to the finals was anything but smooth, but they made it - so credit where credit is due.
I'll stop here, but anyone who thinks that Ernie said "OK I've done enough" is forgetting that he did a lot, he just couldn't build a title team, and that's hard. Most GMs never build a title team and the ones that do, often get lucky because they land a Michael Jordan, or Steph Curry, or Hakeem or Giannis. Still, credit where credit is due, but winning a title is hard, and Ernie, and I'm nto a big fan, but he really tried.
Kiki was a mistake.
Mo Cheeks was pointless.
But Xavier McDaniel - good move.
Charles Smith for Mark Jackson and a 2nd rounder, didn't even give up a first rounder.
Ro Blackman - OK, that was a first rounder but Ro was still good, Pat Riley just didn't like him.
Derek Harper - another first rounder but great trade. No issues with that one.
I could go on. There were other moves. The free agency window. Allan Houston, Chris CHilds and trading for Larry Johnson, in hindsight, maybe not the moves to make. Could have have gotten Reggie Miller? Miller was better than Houston at least for a few years. Tim Hardaway instead of Childs? Hardaway was much better. Childs looked like an up and commer when they signed him, but he wasn't all that.
Later adding Spreewell, granted, he had to be traded and he came with baggage so . . . easy trade to win. Great trade.
And adding Camby - interesting. Oak for Camby. That worked.
Grunfeld never sat on his ass and said "OK, we're good enough" - he tried. He did a lot. Now, I still don't like him. He gave away a lot of first round picks and the picks he had, mostly didnt' work out, and he gave away Rod Strickland for almost nothing. So . . . I don't like him, but he didn't sit on his but and do nothing. He made a number of moves. He made a solid effort to build a winner around Ewing, not always making the right move, but I think he really did try.
and he was better than Layden.
Too long? Yup, this was probably too long and I stopped 94. I could have kept going.
I do think Ernie tried though. He really did.
God invented war so Americans would learn geography.
RIP mags
