wHatS WrOnG w/ bRuNsoN??

[Jalen Bluntson]

i think the disconnect here is that you think saying he was playing poorly in his role for a few games is saying he is a poor player. yes it was realistically going to take time to figure it out. that doesn't mean "he didn't play poorly at all". it means he played poorly to start the season, which can be true at the same time as him being an elite nba player

everybody here has seen 2 seasons of brunson being a phenomenal leader, a steady hand, and a major scoring talent using fundamental skills. nobody but a troll would say that he isn't a great knick. nobody even doubted he'd iron it out. they just wanted him to hurry up and do so asap because they are fans of the team and want to watch great winning basketball

No. The disconnect is that people weren't even trying to be patient at all. I was having this discussion with several people. Patience. That's all. We aren't even 1/4 of the way through the season yet and the complaints were rolling in after two or three games. It wasn't until the second Nets game that people started to calm down.

I never said he wasn't off to a slow start or that he didn't struggle at times. I just put the context in that people were ignoring. New team new system no bench. It didn't matter. Now they wanna act like they were right for being impatient and expecting things to hum along as they were? No. It was silly then and it will remain silly long after the team is firing on all cylinders. Patience.

Like I have said repeatedly, none of it matters that much. We are all Knicks fans with a great team to root for. That's the part we need to focus on.

again, there's a disconnect, because saying people should be more patient is different than saying that brunson was playing well to start the year. all i'm saying. i think it's okay to comment on things as they are happening in real time and also maintain a zoomed out wider perspective on them

He was playing well considering the situation. Why you keep trying to say I have the disconnect is beyond me. I was the one saying to be patient. People were talking about trading him(though some of that was trolling). People were complaining about everyone on the team as if we made some tragic mistake trading for the players we got. No patience or context was applied to anything. KAT this and Mikal that. Hart shouldn't start. Etc etc.

The disconnect was factually the people not being patient and not taking the changes to the roster and the system into account for anyone on the team. It was immediate and constant. He's in a funk. His shot is off. Yada yada yada. No kidding. He has to figure out how to orchestrate an entire new style with an entire new lineup. So does everyone else. Be patient. But but but he's missing wide open threes and this and that and the other thing. After every single game. No patience at all. That's the disconnect brother. Being a voice of reason is NOT a disconnect.

[rajajackal]

No. The disconnect is that people weren't even trying to be patient at all. I was having this discussion with several people. Patience. That's all. We aren't even 1/4 of the way through the season yet and the complaints were rolling in after two or three games. It wasn't until the second Nets game that people started to calm down.

I never said he wasn't off to a slow start or that he didn't struggle at times. I just put the context in that people were ignoring. New team new system no bench. It didn't matter. Now they wanna act like they were right for being impatient and expecting things to hum along as they were? No. It was silly then and it will remain silly long after the team is firing on all cylinders. Patience.

Like I have said repeatedly, none of it matters that much. We are all Knicks fans with a great team to root for. That's the part we need to focus on.

again, there's a disconnect, because saying people should be more patient is different than saying that brunson was playing well to start the year. all i'm saying. i think it's okay to comment on things as they are happening in real time and also maintain a zoomed out wider perspective on them

He was playing well considering the situation. Why you keep trying to say I have the disconnect is beyond me. I was the one saying to be patient. People were talking about trading him(though some of that was trolling). People were complaining about everyone on the team as if we made some tragic mistake trading for the players we got. No patience or context was applied to anything. KAT this and Mikal that. Hart shouldn't start. Etc etc.

The disconnect was factually the people not being patient and not taking the changes to the roster and the system into account for anyone on the team. It was immediate and constant. He's in a funk. His shot is off. Yada yada yada. No kidding. He has to figure out how to orchestrate an entire new style with an entire new lineup. So does everyone else. Be patient. But but but he's missing wide open threes and this and that and the other thing. After every single game. No patience at all. That's the disconnect brother. Being a voice of reason is NOT a disconnect.

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

[Jalen Bluntson]

again, there's a disconnect, because saying people should be more patient is different than saying that brunson was playing well to start the year. all i'm saying. i think it's okay to comment on things as they are happening in real time and also maintain a zoomed out wider perspective on them

He was playing well considering the situation. Why you keep trying to say I have the disconnect is beyond me. I was the one saying to be patient. People were talking about trading him(though some of that was trolling). People were complaining about everyone on the team as if we made some tragic mistake trading for the players we got. No patience or context was applied to anything. KAT this and Mikal that. Hart shouldn't start. Etc etc.

The disconnect was factually the people not being patient and not taking the changes to the roster and the system into account for anyone on the team. It was immediate and constant. He's in a funk. His shot is off. Yada yada yada. No kidding. He has to figure out how to orchestrate an entire new style with an entire new lineup. So does everyone else. Be patient. But but but he's missing wide open threes and this and that and the other thing. After every single game. No patience at all. That's the disconnect brother. Being a voice of reason is NOT a disconnect.

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

[Fat Kat]

Some of y’all

[kNicksGmen]

Except no one was doing that. He was not playing poorly. That's the part people kept ignoring. Expecting him to play any better than he was with an entirely new team in a new system was unrealistic.

agree to disagree. he played poorly in several games both shooting and distributing by the standards I expect from him. if you look at the totality of it - it wasn't "poor" but certainly far below expected standards of what we've all considered him to be now which is an MVP 1A guy. i don't think you can simultaneously say he's a top 5-10 MVP player but he has "unrealistic expectations". having off shooting games isn't a big deal but that wasn't the main issue - it was how he looked running the offense and just clearly not finding the balance of being aggressive and distributing

it was never about stats. it was his approach and his lack of adjustments through the first 10 games of the season. teams putting bigger, longer guys on him and he wants to go at them all game instead of finding ways to work an offense because lord knows thibs aint helping

hardly any 2-man game with him and kat. missing kat wide open a bunch of times. lack of 3pt attempts. think back to how many times we said "that was brunsons worst game with us" this season. there have been like 3 games where that has been a common sentiment.

looks like he is starting to figure it out hopefully things continue on an upward trajectory

exactly this. it's funny people in here acting celebratory as if anyone was ever rooting against brunson. we all want him to ball the F out and carry us to a title.

So by having unrealistic expectations you're right and everyone else is wrong? Nice try but, no. It was an ENTIRELY NEW LINEUP playing in an ENTIRELY NEW SYSTEM compared to the last couple of years. Running 6.5 man rotations that led to losses is not on him. His numbers show he didn't play poorly at all. He actually played better distribution wise after THIRTEEN games. Did it click on day one? No. It NEVER does given the situation. How long did the Heat take to get it together before winning multiple titles? That was with HOF level players.

You guys acting like he was not playing well took no time to consider the facts of the situation. People were complaining from the jump. So being unrealistic is on you. It was shortsighted and lazy. The numbers support that.

the entire point was the expectations were not unrealistic. it's a new lineup yes - a far better one. the system is not largely changed - thibs is still the coach and still running the same actions. the personnel has changed (for the better) and that takes time sure. we're comparing his numbers this season to his to start last year playing with a far worse supporting cast with worse spacing. randle, RJ, mitch - and a bum version of grimes.

it's not about right vs wrong. you're entitled to your opinion that brunson wasn't playing poorly based on stats. i watched every game and think he's played up to a standard i expect in less than half of them (was way less than half until recently).

you can point out all the reasons and excuses (valid) for why - that doesn't mean fans being critical of him were unfair. like i said before we're all rooting for him to do well and the team to do well. fans are entitled to overreact or be upset when the team and their best player underperform, regardless of the circumstances.

just to be clear, both of the following statements were/are perfectly fine and true:

"brunson is off man, he needs to play better"

"give it time, no reason to doubt brunson. the offense will improve as the season goes along"

[rajajackal]

He was playing well considering the situation. Why you keep trying to say I have the disconnect is beyond me. I was the one saying to be patient. People were talking about trading him(though some of that was trolling). People were complaining about everyone on the team as if we made some tragic mistake trading for the players we got. No patience or context was applied to anything. KAT this and Mikal that. Hart shouldn't start. Etc etc.

The disconnect was factually the people not being patient and not taking the changes to the roster and the system into account for anyone on the team. It was immediate and constant. He's in a funk. His shot is off. Yada yada yada. No kidding. He has to figure out how to orchestrate an entire new style with an entire new lineup. So does everyone else. Be patient. But but but he's missing wide open threes and this and that and the other thing. After every single game. No patience at all. That's the disconnect brother. Being a voice of reason is NOT a disconnect.

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

it's never "so what" for me. my day to day mental health relies on this team

[Guano]

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

it's never "so what" for me. my day to day mental health relies on this team

i've learned that I was lying to myself - that I haven't matured. it was just a lot easier to be a fan then they sucked cause i had no expectations. now i'm getting upset when they lose games in november to the atlanta hawks. i'm worried how i'm going to hold up all year. i'm not built for this. come playoff time i'm going to be freebasing valium.

[Jalen Bluntson]

agree to disagree. he played poorly in several games both shooting and distributing by the standards I expect from him. if you look at the totality of it - it wasn't "poor" but certainly far below expected standards of what we've all considered him to be now which is an MVP 1A guy. i don't think you can simultaneously say he's a top 5-10 MVP player but he has "unrealistic expectations". having off shooting games isn't a big deal but that wasn't the main issue - it was how he looked running the offense and just clearly not finding the balance of being aggressive and distributing
exactly this. it's funny people in here acting celebratory as if anyone was ever rooting against brunson. we all want him to ball the F out and carry us to a title.

So by having unrealistic expectations you're right and everyone else is wrong? Nice try but, no. It was an ENTIRELY NEW LINEUP playing in an ENTIRELY NEW SYSTEM compared to the last couple of years. Running 6.5 man rotations that led to losses is not on him. His numbers show he didn't play poorly at all. He actually played better distribution wise after THIRTEEN games. Did it click on day one? No. It NEVER does given the situation. How long did the Heat take to get it together before winning multiple titles? That was with HOF level players.

You guys acting like he was not playing well took no time to consider the facts of the situation. People were complaining from the jump. So being unrealistic is on you. It was shortsighted and lazy. The numbers support that.

the entire point was the expectations were not unrealistic. it's a new lineup yes - a far better one. the system is not largely changed - thibs is still the coach and still running the same actions. the personnel has changed (for the better) and that takes time sure. we're comparing his numbers this season to his to start last year playing with a far worse supporting cast with worse spacing. randle, RJ, mitch - and a bum version of grimes.

it's not about right vs wrong. you're entitled to your opinion that brunson wasn't playing poorly based on stats. i watched every game and think he's played up to a standard i expect in less than half of them (was way less than half until recently).

you can point out all the reasons and excuses (valid) for why - that doesn't mean fans being critical of him were unfair. like i said before we're all rooting for him to do well and the team to do well. fans are entitled to overreact or be upset when the team and their best player underperform, regardless of the circumstances.

just to be clear, both of the following statements were/are perfectly fine and true:

"brunson is off man, he needs to play better"

"give it time, no reason to doubt brunson. the offense will improve as the season goes along"

Yep.

[ctorres]

Read on Twitter

Now this is some BS, lol

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

Now this is some BS, lol

Not sure why he’s getting downgraded lol

[kNicksGmen]

Another rough performance.

[The KnicksFix]

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

it's never "so what" for me. my day to day mental health relies on this team

Bro this! Seriously raja this! My day to day mental health relies on this team. We were so close last year. So close I could taste it. But one stupid expiring contract (Ihart) started this cascade of events. I need this team to start dominating man

[Context]

some of you are just too stubborn...This is team is essential new. When youre a new team you cant fully gel in 16 games
when youre copeting against the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. There are 29 other teams out there and ever single one of them are
unique. Going 9-7 is a product of the NOW! I'm sure theyre all giving it their best shot. This is NOT the final product and its not any of their faults- ESSPECIALLY Brunsons.

This year this 24-25 Knick team is on a new journey and whether you have patience or not this losses will be part of the process.

16 games in with 66 to go!

[Jalen Bluntson]

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

it's never "so what" for me. my day to day mental health relies on this team

Bro this! Seriously raja this! My day to day mental health relies on this team. We were so close last year. So close I could taste it. But one stupid expiring contract (Ihart) started this cascade of events. I need this team to start dominating man

What do you the other six months out of the year? Walk around depressed? None of this matters when discussing being patient with things. We are running a short handed team and, we are among the best in the conference. Can things get better? Sure. We need our bench players back first and foremost but, we already had this discussion.

[The KnicksFix]

He was playing well considering the situation. Why you keep trying to say I have the disconnect is beyond me. I was the one saying to be patient. People were talking about trading him(though some of that was trolling). People were complaining about everyone on the team as if we made some tragic mistake trading for the players we got. No patience or context was applied to anything. KAT this and Mikal that. Hart shouldn't start. Etc etc.

The disconnect was factually the people not being patient and not taking the changes to the roster and the system into account for anyone on the team. It was immediate and constant. He's in a funk. His shot is off. Yada yada yada. No kidding. He has to figure out how to orchestrate an entire new style with an entire new lineup. So does everyone else. Be patient. But but but he's missing wide open threes and this and that and the other thing. After every single game. No patience at all. That's the disconnect brother. Being a voice of reason is NOT a disconnect.

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

But bro, bench players don’t help us shooting 16/51 last night or Mikal getting absolutely wrecked on defense

[Jalen Bluntson]

i'm saying there's a disconnect because you were saying that things not clicking immediately means he was not playing poorly. he was playing poorly, which was a symptom of things not clicking immediately, and you are correct that we have been given every reason by this player to believe he would get it to click eventually. i'm just being particular about the logic of everyone's varying perspectives and how they coexist

there are also people who aren't trying to be logical and just spice the board up with some entertainment, i know. i consider them our color commentators

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

But bro, bench players don’t help us shooting 16/51 last night or Mikal getting absolutely wrecked on defense

Your point? Last game was all about poor shooting over anything else for one. This post was in reference to a conversation that started over a week ago. I fail to see a connection at all.

We need depth to be able to make any adjustments moving forward. We needed patience to begin the season looking back. That's my final answer in regards to any real discussion about this team.

[The KnicksFix]

I never said he was playing great though. So there is no disconnect. He wasn't playing poorly enough to have this discussion either. His numbers support that. Was he playing at peak form? No. So what? New team new system no bench. The latter had more impact on us losing than anything else that went on. 4th quarter collapses as players were looking tired from the short rotations. We would probably have 3-4 more wins with a deeper bench.

Anyway... It's over. People won't admit they jumped the gun either way so whatever. We have a great team to look forward to. That's all that matters. Hopefully the whining and not picking will calm down as we more chemistry and win more games.

But bro, bench players don’t help us shooting 16/51 last night or Mikal getting absolutely wrecked on defense

Your point? Last game was all about poor shooting over anything else for one. This post was in reference to a conversation that started over a week ago. I fail to see a connection at all.

We need depth to be able to make any adjustments moving forward. We needed patience to begin the season looking back. That's my final answer in regards to any real discussion about this team.

I definitely don’t disagree with you. We do need precious back and probably an injection of defense in the start line lineup alongside him with deuce. But either way this defense is the worst I’ve seen in the Thibs error. I do agree with you we need depth, but also Mikal has to get going and play better defense. His effort on defense is not what we signed up for

[Jalen Bluntson]

But bro, bench players don’t help us shooting 16/51 last night or Mikal getting absolutely wrecked on defense

Your point? Last game was all about poor shooting over anything else for one. This post was in reference to a conversation that started over a week ago. I fail to see a connection at all.

We need depth to be able to make any adjustments moving forward. We needed patience to begin the season looking back. That's my final answer in regards to any real discussion about this team.

I definitely don’t disagree with you. We do need precious back and probably an injection of defense in the start line lineup alongside him with deuce. But either way this defense is the worst I’ve seen in the Thibs error. I do agree with you we need depth, but also Mikal has to get going and play better defense. His effort on defense is not what we signed up for

This defense has been whatever Mikal and OG do. That's it. We know Brunson and KAT were weak defenders. We know Hart is hit or miss on defense as well. We have no one else consistently providing much defense at all. Mikal has his off days as well but, people are exaggerating his poor defense overall IMO.

We are 9-7. It's not the end of the world yet. We haven't seen a full squad at all this season either. We have had either Deuce or Payne out for stretches during this long grueling season of 16 games. No Mitch or Precious at all. Nothing else matters until that changes. We will be up and down around .500 until further notice. The rookies are not gonna save us. Sims has looked better recently but, really? We need our team at full strength at some point. Hopefully for the playoffs. We can survive the struggles until then obviously. We are the 4 seed with all of problems we have. I'll take it for now.

[Woodsanity]

I have no worries about offense. We are literally an elite offensive team. The issue is defense. Hopefully Mitch helps with that but the issue is he will inevitably get injured again. Just too injury prone....

Also mikal is a huge disappointment. I was skeptical about paying so much for who is essentially a super role player but now he isn't even super.