OT: Who is the greatest boxing heavyweight of all time?

[TKF]

Ali is my vote, then Joe louis and you can't forget this guy..




he was a bad man, fought during a time when things were rough on blacks. Dated and married white women in a time where black men were hung for even looking at a white woman. He was a bad man. He beat up the white boxers and then married white women... Unheard of during that time. He was feared by most and truly a boxing pioneer.. He had to chase guys down to fight him...

Well said. I think I gotta agree .... even though I never saw him fight. Anybody ever beat him?

he had 73 wins 13 losses, 9 draws, 9 no contest. most of the losses came well after his prime.. But in his prime he was a monster..

[CurryPuff]

anyone who saw both Ali and Tyson in their prime would say it's easily Ali AND ali would have beaten him 8 or 9 times out of 10.

end that discussion.

best of all time?

Dunno didn't see all of them, but wasn't Ali the greatest athlete of the century by ESPN? that says something, no?

[CurryPuff]

I'm glad this topic was made. I seen the movie Tyson the other day. It was a documentary and everything came from Tyson himself. Its a must see for all boxing fans.

was it as good as "When we were kings?"

[Newyorker123]

I'm not old enough to have seen Ali in his prime, but I have a hard time believing Ali would've "easily" beaten Tyson.

[ManualRam]

i'll go with the brown bomber. he held the title for 12 yrs and holds the heavyweight record for most title defenses. compared to ali, louis was the more powerful puncher and the more technically sound fighter.

also, prime vs prime, holmes beats ali.

I don't believe that for one minute, and I am a big larry holmes fan as well..

why? holmes had the much better jab, better defense, more power and he was the better technician.
holmes = the most underrated heavyweight ever.
ali got away with what he did becuz he was taller, longer, more athletic and was more skilled than his opposition. he wouldnt have any of those advantages vs a prime holmes.
holmes dominated the heavyweight division and didnt lose a fight til he was 36 yrs old.

[Newyorker123]

I'm glad this topic was made. I seen the movie Tyson the other day. It was a documentary and everything came from Tyson himself. Its a must see for all boxing fans.

was it as good as "When we were kings?"

Both are great, but its two totally different things and not comparable in any way.

[ManualRam]

I went with Tyson, with Ali being a close second. I'm about to go play Fight Night to box with these guys.

joe louis, larry holmes, george foreman, jack johnson, sam langford, jack dempsey, lennox lewis all >>>> tyson.
no excuses, you have to take the good with the bad. tyson was a beast, but he was mentally weak. the first fighter to stand up to him and push back, beat him.

I chuckled

becuz??
refute it homey.
tyson was a beast, im not gonna deny that, but he had a bully mentality. if you can take his punch and push him back, he'll fold.
he had the greatest combination of speed, power and explosiveness, but he was also a headcase who developed a pretty shtty work ethic that eventually affected him in the ring. you cant just glorify his positives and ignore his negatives.
also factor in that he wasnt the biggest heavyweight, he was a like 5'9 with a 70" reach. he wouldnt even be able to get to tall fighters with long, educated jabs like ali, holmes or a prime lewis.
do people just forget what buster douglas did to him??
he jabbed his face off.

shoot, i'd even take a prime riddick bowe over prime tyson cuz of bowe's chin, his ability to fight inside for a big man and tyson's penchant for eating uppercuts.

[TKF]

i'll go with the brown bomber. he held the title for 12 yrs and holds the heavyweight record for most title defenses. compared to ali, louis was the more powerful puncher and the more technically sound fighter.

also, prime vs prime, holmes beats ali.

I don't believe that for one minute, and I am a big larry holmes fan as well..

why? holmes had the much better jab, better defense, more power and he was the better technician.
holmes = the most underrated heavyweight ever.
ali got away with what he did becuz he was taller, longer, more athletic and was more skilled than his opposition. he wouldnt have any of those advantages vs a prime holmes.
holmes dominated the heavyweight division and didnt lose a fight til he was 36 yrs old.

I think Ali was a lot slicker, could hit on the move very well and that would have given holmes problems. AS far as holmes having more power. I don't know. guys who got hit by ali, said he could pack a punch, I think Ali's punching power was underrated. I think ail's hand speed and ability to move and control the ring would have given him the advantage.

don't get me wrong, I used to have to defend holmes all the time. He got robbed vs spinks, that had rotten written all over it, because he was going to tie marciano's record of wins without a defeat. Holmes was an underrated fighter, and he ranks a lot higher on my list than most..

[dk7th]

heavyweights from different eras varied vastly in weight. dempsey and louis and marciano were heavyweights in their eras but none of them fought at more than 195 pounds. frazier defeated ali at around 200 pounds or so.

it's hard to compare fighters across eras based on weight, but louis and marciano have to be ranked way up there among heavyweights when heavyweights were around 190-198 pounds or so. marciano retired undefeated at 48-0. nobody else can make that claim. marciano was both frazier's and tyson's idol, which should come as no surprise. he was a tough son of a gun both physically and mentally who could take a punch, was in incredible shape, and whose legs were like tree trunks. you get your punching power from your legs.

nowadays dempsey and louis and marciano and frazier would be outweighed by anywhere from 25-50 pounds.

[TKF]

refute it homey.
tyson was a beast, im not gonna deny that, but he had a bully mentality. if you can take his punch and push him back, he'll fold.
he had the greatest combination of speed, power and explosiveness, but he was also a headcase who developed a pretty shtty work ethic that eventually affected him in the ring. you cant just glorify his positives and ignore his negatives.
also factor in that he wasnt the biggest heavyweight, he was a like 5'9 with a 70" reach. he wouldnt even be able to get to tall fighters with long, educated jabs like ali, holmes or a prime lewis.
do people just forget what buster douglas did to him??
he jabbed his face off.

shoot, i'd even take a prime riddick bowe over prime tyson cuz of bowe's chin, his ability to fight inside for a big man and tyson's penchant for eating uppercuts.

tyson was a beast for sure and could have been one of the greatest ever, top 5, had his life not taken the path it did.. but bigger fighters who could counter punch always gave him trouble. Buster douglas was no fluke, he pushed mike around and was sharp with his counter punching, the same with holyfield. Evander had a chin, could counter punch and was just as big and taller than tyson...

[ManualRam]

I don't believe that for one minute, and I am a big larry holmes fan as well..

why? holmes had the much better jab, better defense, more power and he was the better technician.
holmes = the most underrated heavyweight ever.
ali got away with what he did becuz he was taller, longer, more athletic and was more skilled than his opposition. he wouldnt have any of those advantages vs a prime holmes.
holmes dominated the heavyweight division and didnt lose a fight til he was 36 yrs old.

I think Ali was a lot slicker, could hit on the move very well and that would have given holmes problems. AS far as holmes having more power. I don't know. guys who got hit by ali, said he could pack a punch, I think Ali's punching power was underrated. I think ail's hand speed and ability to move and control the ring would have given him the advantage.

-ali did have power but he hardly ever sat down on his punches cuz he was always punching off his back foot
-was ali slicker? maybe, but he relied too much on his reflexes. holmes had the much better, more technically sound defense.
- holmes ALSO had the ability move and control the ring. IMO, he was the better ring general becuz he stayed disciplined and never resorted to tactics like rope-a-doping or holding/smothering like ali. he always maintained his distance and was perfectly content with controlling the entire fight with the best jab in the history of heavyweight boxing.

[Newyorker123]

Tyson losses

1. Shocking upset by Douglas
2. A loss to Holyfield after being removed from prison only a year ago
3. DQ to Holyfield after biting his ear because repeated headbutts. Tyson discussed this in his documentary.
4. A loss to Lenox and everyone with a brain knew Tyson wasn't winning this fight. Lewis was still at the top of his game and Mike was already fading away. Tyson knew he wasn't winning and admitted this in his film.
5. Didn't Tyson get hurt in like the 2nd round when fighting Williams?
6. Tyson most embarrassing fight and he was fighting to pay off his debt, when he loss to McBride.

Tyson would've had a tough time with tall boxers, no doubt. I'm not making excuses either, just putting things in perspective.

[ezmoney707]

why? holmes had the much better jab, better defense, more power and he was the better technician.
holmes = the most underrated heavyweight ever.
ali got away with what he did becuz he was taller, longer, more athletic and was more skilled than his opposition. he wouldnt have any of those advantages vs a prime holmes.
holmes dominated the heavyweight division and didnt lose a fight til he was 36 yrs old.

Holmes was good....I still would go with Ali , maybe its a personal preference, like TKF said Ali was much smoother, but as you said Holmes was the better technician.

Speaking of Larry, i see this dude all the time when i go to PA. He has a spot in Easton,Pa. He's always around. I use to take martial arts with one of his grandsons too. He seems like a chill cat, never really had a conversion with him though, to get to know him. Its weird because like you said he is underrated. Even in a popularity point too. I seen this dude in July when they were having a festival out there and this cat was walking as if he was just your everyday joe. No one ask for an autograph or stop him either. If that was Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Foreman...people would be all over these guys asking for an autograph or try and pick their brain.

[CurryPuff]

forget physical tools for a second. ali's brain was the biggest intangible... he was just smarter than all of them.

tyson was a menace. scared people to death. If you didn't fear him and could elude the home run punch or home run combo then you'd make him a fighter and he wasn't much of a fighter.

all time heavy weights could go the distance...

[Rich Rane]

A bit off topic, but anyone wondering about Mayweather's next fight? Well I read this...
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Then...
http://www.boxingscene.com/index.php?m=show&id=22854
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http://www.examiner.com/x-11372-Dallas- ... namon-Head
http://www.examiner.com/x-26181-Provide ... t-his-mind

[Subway Token]

Float like a butterfly sting like a bee. Can't go wrong with Mo-mo Ali.

Oh hey I'm a poet and I didn't even know it.

[jakoub]

tyson would have never lost if costamato never died

[Rich Rane]

tyson would have never lost if costamato never died

It's definitely arguable. Everyone saw the change in Tyson after Cus D'Amato died. He became a head hunter and he had a really bad corner. That was clearly evident in the Douglas fight. He was supposed to be one of the great inside fighters. Some say he might have been amazing in the 90s had he not gone to jail. With everything that did happen though, Mike Tyson simply didn't pan out. All it took then was not to be intimidated by Tyson.

[TheBluest]

I'll rep Holmes, Ali, and Holyfield

[Rich Rane]

I'll rep Holmes, Ali, and Holyfield

Holyfield's the best cruiserweight of all time (Although he didn't have much competition here). I wouldn't go much further other than he was a very good boxer at heavyweight.