Why do Knicks fans overrate Chandler so much?

nyqua11 · Post #21 » by **nyqua11** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:09 am

I think of him as a good piece to have in building a championship team. And I think he's pretty close to his peak right now.

Scalabrine · Post #22 » by **Scalabrine** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:26 am

Chandlers offense reminds me of Richard Jefferson way more then Rudy Gay, Chandlers defense is better. Clearly, RJ is better offensively right now but I dont see why Chandler shouldnt be a player that can avg 20 points per game, especially in this offense. He will not be the number 1 option but a good number two and a very good number 3.

StutterStep · Post #23 » by **StutterStep** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:53 am

This is too funny. A prototypical SF who is being ruined (to a certain degree) by this offense because he keeps getting played out of position -- while being one of, if not, our best defender.

FutureKnicksGM · Post #24 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:57 am

Scalabrine wrote:Chandlers offense reminds me of Richard Jefferson way more then Rudy Gay, Chandlers defense is better. Clearly, RJ is better offensively right now but I dont see why Chandler shouldnt be a player that can avg 20 points per game, especially in this offense. He will not be the number 1 option but a good number two and a very good number 3.

RJ is a good comparison, but i would say Chandler would only be a decent #2 on a good team.

Chandler does settle for the jump shot, i think the reason being his ball handling is somewhat limited. And yeah , i would have traded him in the deal for #5.

knickfan · Post #25 » by **knickfan** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:19 am

Chandler reminds me of T-Mac in his Toronto days being overshadowed by Vince Carter. We haven't seen the best of this guy yet. This Knicks team doesn't have any set leaders, it'll be interesting to see who the captain(s) is(are) this year.

bringinhinkie · Post #26 » by **bringinhinkie** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:54 am

idk how people can hate on chandler, hes our best defender, a team player, and has all the physical tools to become something like an 18/7 player with 1-2 bpg..

hes not overrated, all the praise he has gotten has been earned, he just needs to become more aggressive/pick his spots better but so do most young players.. we all know how good he can be when his confidence is skyhigh (boston game for example)..

trading him for rudy would be mind numbing.. yea rudy is the bigger name, highlight dunks, but he is everything that has plagued us the past few years.. absolute chuck, low iq player.. the man averaged under 2 apg and 2.5to/g.. i hate to beat a dead horse but he has a ton of crawford in him, only crawford was a better passer (when he did..)

moreover, rudy is a RFA this summer.. only an idiot would trade a guy on a rookie contract through 2010 for a guy he is arguably better than (def a better fit) who would take up precious 2010 cap

think people

gavran · Post #27 » by **gavran** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:52 am

blind_ wrote:Chandler is starting to remind me more and more of Dorrell Wright. Hopefully this is not the case. But I still see the ceiling on him as a Mo Peterson-type starter for good teams.

Dorell Wright? Seriously? He reminds you of a player who's best season is worse than Chandler's rookie season, and doesn't even play? Wow, this has to be the worst comparision I've seem so far.

Paeds · Post #28 » by **Paeds** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:45 am

Poor Mans Granger

NyKnicks1714 · Post #29 » by **NyKnicks1714** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:55 am

Josh Childress.

br7knicks · Post #30 » by **br7knicks** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:36 am

knickfan wrote:Chandler reminds me of T-Mac in his Toronto days being overshadowed by Vince Carter. We haven't seen the best of this guy yet. This Knicks team doesn't have any set leaders, it'll be interesting to see who the captain(s) is(are) this year.

Not sure where you're getting at. Chandler isn't being overshadowed by anyone great. If you meant because we haven't seen his full potential in general, then I understand. But there is no one keeping him down but himself right now; but Harrington, who is not overshadowing him like Carter did to TMac, is taking too many shots.

Starks · Post #31 » by **Starks** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:21 pm

KnicksMetsJetsNova wrote:idk how people can hate on chandler, hes our best defender, a team player, and has all the physical tools to become something like an 18/7 player with 1-2 bpg..

hes not overrated, all the praise he has gotten has been earned, he just needs to become more aggressive/pick his spots better but so do most young players.. we all know how good he can be when his confidence is skyhigh (boston game for example)..

trading him for rudy would be mind numbing.. yea rudy is the bigger name, highlight dunks, but he is everything that has plagued us the past few years.. absolute chuck, low iq player.. the man averaged under 2 apg and 2.5to/g.. i hate to beat a dead horse but he has a ton of crawford in him, only crawford was a better passer (when he did..)

moreover, rudy is a RFA this summer.. only an idiot would trade a guy on a rookie contract through 2010 for a guy he is arguably better than (def a better fit) who would take up precious 2010 cap

think people

First of all, why can't we be critical of a player without being called a "hater" ? I don't "hate" on Chandler, I just try to be realistic with my expectations. I never said we should trade him for Rudy, nor did anybody in this thread, matter of fact I already said that I don't know Rudy that well so I can't really speak on that. Stop making up stuff.

You're the prototypical Knicks fan. As soon as one of our player is athletic and has a few good offensive games, he's a future star and nobody has the right to be critical of him. I know that Chandler is a good defender, that's why I also like him, and that's where he's the most valuable, but my point in this thread was that Chandler is overrated by a lot of people in his overall game. Barring radical events or changes, he won't be that franchise player so many wish he was, nor will he be a great offensive weapon. I'm not even sure (and that's just me) that he could be a third option on a championship team. Again, I still think he's a really good piece to have on a roster, and I love his defense, but he lacks this killer instinct and he's too limited in his skillset to fulfill some of the biggest expectations we have as Knicks fans.

Dr. Detfink · Post #32 » by **Dr. Detfink** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:13 pm

Wait, is there another young Knick player with more talent right now that I don't know about?

David Lee still can't hit a shot (or play defense), Nate doesn't know how to set up his teammates, Gallo is still a work in progress, Hill and Douglas are rookies....Wilson Chandler is by far the most talented and promising Knick draftee right now.

EchelonNYK · Post #33 » by **EchelonNYK** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:16 pm

Wilson will be fine. end of thread.

dk7th · Post #34 » by **dk7th** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:26 pm

there are some good points being made on this thread. my take is that true warrior is right about chandler playing out of position-- and yes i acknowledge those posts citing that chandler shot better from sg than sf position-- but the underlying problem remains his lack of ballhanding skills at the sg position and also the fact that he is not a pure shooter, and a "shooting" guard should be the kind of shooter who has developed a shot since he was a boy of 11 not a youth of 17.

but what hasn't been mentioned thus far is that until d'antoni settles on a lineup many players will still be looking for a role to play on the court in order for there to be better cohesiveness and understanding of what they could be doing or should be doing on the floor.

chandler may in the meantime be making the wrong decisions and may be playing with hesitancy.

even gallinari has looked hesitant or has "deferred" out there; then again he is trying to promote offensive cohesiveness. in fact it has occurred to me-- something that will seem outrageous to some of you i'm sure-- that gallinari in some way might be trying to "educate" his teammates, which is what players with high bball iq do sometimes.

this is why i personally think it is kind of fruitless to wish that he be more "selfish" and start doing the very thing that many have castigated other players for doing. why ask him to "sink" to their level?

gavran · Post #35 » by **gavran** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:29 pm

Starks wrote:Barring radical events or changes, he won't be that franchise player so many wish he was

I'm sorry, but noone ever said, or thought that he could be. You said he's overrated based on things that are not even true. Chandler is a legit two-way player, who's good offensively, and good defensively and just turned 22. Everybody on these boards know that he doesn't have that killer instinct to be the man, and I don't really remember anyone saying otherwise. Being excited about a player based on potential AND production does not equal overrating someone. You claim that you trying to be realistic, and there's no problem with that, but as I see in this thread, you just have low expectations (lower than they should be). It's understandable considering this team sucked for 9 years, and most of the players in this strech dissappointed, but I think you need to find the right balance between expectations, optimism, pessimism and exctitement. You can be optimistic and excited without overrating (which is the case here IMO), but you don't have to be negative just to stay "realistic".

Starks · Post #36 » by **Starks** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:07 pm

gavran wrote:
Starks wrote:Barring radical events or changes, he won't be that franchise player so many wish he was

I'm sorry, but noone ever said, or thought that he could be. You said he's overrated based on things that are not even true. Chandler is a legit two-way player, who's good offensively, and good defensively and just turned 22. Everybody on these boards know that he doesn't have that killer instinct to be the man, and I don't really remember anyone saying otherwise. Being excited about a player based on potential AND production does not equal overrating someone. You claim that you trying to be realistic, and there's no problem with that, but as I see in this thread, you just have low expectations (lower than they should be). It's understandable considering this team sucked for 9 years, and most of the players in this strech dissappointed, but I think you need to find the right balance between expectations, optimism, pessimism and exctitement. You can be optimistic and excited without overrating (which is the case here IMO), but you don't have to be negative just to stay "realistic".

Do I have low expectations? Maybe, but that's why I probably won't be really disappointed if we go for yet another sucky season, which may very well happen. The Knicks board, and knicks fans in general, are known for overhyping their players in extreme ways, that's precisely the point I'm trying to make. That's exactly like the "best shooter ever" comments from D'Antoni. Maybe it's true, maybe there really isn't any better shooter than Gallo, but why put this kind of pressure so quickly on a guy who has yet to show anything? Let the dude prove his worth on the court, don't rush things, you're putting in peoples mind exaggerated expectations. That's why people will overreact afterwards, because unconsciously, as soon as we hear those type of comments, we expect to see a dead eye marksman from his very first preseason game, leaving him with no margin of error. Then you see a bunch of "Gallo sucks" threads on the Knicks board.

I may seem a little negative but I'm really not, I'm just trying to balance potential and accomplishments. I'm pumped for this season. Chandler is and will be a very good player, but some people put too much hope in one player. He's part of the puzzle.

PrecociousNeoph · Post #37 » by **PrecociousNeoph** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:08 pm

he needs to be banned from the 3-point line.

he's' not a great 3 point shooter. he's not even a consistently good 3 point shooter, and i question the coaching staff's decision to try to force him into it. i understand why they're doing it, to open up his game and the teams offense, because he's got a great mid range J so maybe with enough work he can develop the range. but why? the guy already has a well refined mid-range game. catch and shoot, one dribble, pull up going left or right, step back, we've seen him make all sorts of 15-20ft jumpshots and they are clearly the most refined parts of his game. he's not a great ball handler, but if you keep him around the free throw line he's so close to the basket, hes already 2 steps away from the basket, which with his athleticism, im just scratching my head and asking, why not focus his scoring around there? for the record, i always thought this was crawford's problem too, obviously hes a different type of player, but his low shooting% i always thought had a lot to do with him taking a lot of 3's when his mid range j was, i felt, far superior to his 3pt shooting.

im fearing that if he plays sg a lot this season- which it looks like he will- he's going to be tucked away in the corner behind the arc all season, just chucking 3s

Jmonty580 · Post #38 » by **Jmonty580** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:21 pm

People like who are in this thread is why its said that the Knicks cant rebuild. So impatient, cant let a player grow into a good player.

WIlson Chandler, is a YOUNG player. He came to the Knicks after 2 years at Depaul. We all know his first year his pt was a bit limited, last year he finally got a chance to get some real PT and I think for a young guy with limited experienced he proved to be a very talented player. Is he perfect? Definetely not, he has alot to work on still, but he showed alot of potential and promise. I dont see whats wrong with where Chandler is in his development right now. How many players come right out of college and average 20 + points a game? NOt many outside of franchise players. Are we upset because he isnt looking like a franchise player? Well, sorry to dissappoint you but he's not. However he still can be a very good player in the mold of a Caron Butler type.

Here is another thing that gets me. So many here are in love with Toney Douglas. He's an underrated rookie how can come in and get better over the years, so much potential. lol dude is over a year older than Chandler. So he gets the benefit of the doubt simply because we havent had 2 years of NBA basketball to critize him, yet Chandler has been here improving and we arent satified. I can garuantee you that Douglas has no where near the impact Chandler has on the Knicks.
Then we have the "PROJECT" (yes so many of us defend his weak play by saying he is a project) Jordan Hill. I admitt that i am far from a Hill fan, but that a side he is 2 months younger than Chanlder. Meanwhile he gets a pass for not being able to produce because he is a rookie and we knew he was going to be a project. And him being a project is ok because he is just a rookie? Im really not understanding the logic here.

So we should trade this young talented player we have in Wilson Chandler so that he can blossom on some other team right? Sickening if you ask me. We are already tired of the best talent and potential on our team. Gallo has a chance to be mentioned in the same breath but i've got to see some more from him first, Chandler is more proven.

Am I missing something? He's peaked already huh? Had Chandler stayed all 4 years of college and was just entering the NBA draft, i can even imagine what you guys would think of him. Probably would of been saying we should trade up to get him, giving up Lee and anyone else we needed to in order to get out hands on him.

knicksNOTslick · Post #39 » by **knicksNOTslick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:22 pm

PrecociousNeoph wrote:he needs to be banned from the 3-point line.

he's' not a great 3 point shooter. he's not even a consistently good 3 point shooter, and i question the coaching staff's decision to try to force him into it. i understand why they're doing it, to open up his game and the teams offense, because he's got a great mid range J so maybe with enough work he can develop the range. but why? the guy already has a well refined mid-range game. catch and shoot, one dribble, pull up going left or right, step back, we've seen him make all sorts of 15-20ft jumpshots and they are clearly the most refined parts of his game. he's not a great ball handler, but if you keep him around the free throw line he's so close to the basket, hes already 2 steps away from the basket, which with his athleticism, im just scratching my head and asking, why not focus his scoring around there? for the record, i always thought this was crawford's problem too, obviously hes a different type of player, but his low shooting% i always thought had a lot to do with him taking a lot of 3's when his mid range j was, i felt, far superior to his 3pt shooting.

im fearing that if he plays sg a lot this season- which it looks like he will- he's going to be tucked away in the corner behind the arc all season, just chucking 3s

I agree. The midrange game is definitely his best and that he shouldn't be content with just chucking 3's. He's no Gallo and he should be further along in his development. With that said, preseason games are really the time to experiment and try out different things. Maybe the coaching staff wants to see him shoot 3's more so that he'd be more comfortable shooting them during games. He's already got the midrange game down so that's never really bad. If he does continue chucking 3's and not playing to his strengths during the actual season, then I think that's the time to complain. But for now during preseason, I think we should allow them to keep exploring different facets of their game without criticism, unless of course his name is Larry Hughes, who has been useless all preseason.

cgmw · Post #40 » by **cgmw** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:04 pm

I think if these responses prove anything, it's that you're flat wrong -- Knick fans do NOT overhype Chandler. I read these boards every day, and it's been a long time since anybody claimed Wilson would be an elite player. It seems pretty obvious that he's solid but not a star. It's Gaillinari that has the superstar potential everybody's creaming themselves over.