I bet Zeke pushed for Jennings....

[seren]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Actually Phoenix did offer him the max. They just didn't want to guarantee the fourth and the fifth year.

[basaglia]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Wow...really...

Are you really that dense? If we weren't as serious about getting Amar'e, another team would of. A team like Chicago or New Jersey could of EASILY offered him the max if we didn't decide that he was our man.

I can't believe you don't understand that.

"could of easily"? why didn't they offer him the max, then?

[basaglia]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Actually Phoenix did offer him the max. They just didn't want to guarantee the fourth and the fifth year.

so, they didn't offer what the knicks did?

[basaglia]

It would be nice to have Brandon Jennings, but under a D'Antoni run offense you need a distributor not a scorer to run the PG.

felton's no great distributor. he averaged less dimes in more time than jennings.

you guys don't don't care how bad ray felton is.

[bklynstoops]

again, just answer this--in 2008 would you have fired Isiah? after losing season after losing season (2 record tying number of losses, btw), a disaster of a roster and payroll, having just settled a sexual harassment suit, would you have fired him?

i would have fired isiah in early 2006, because of the PR nightmare and to save his image, even if he didn't want me to...for his own good. I'm dead serious. The NYC media has HEAVILY influenced the perception of Isiah, Dolan and the Knicks. The knicks were ALREADY a laughing stock, but somehow it became unbearable to have them be bad under isiah. guys like lupica, vaccaro, lawrence, berman, etc. were INCENSED and they wrote GARBAGE. radio spewed GARBAGE. and bill simmons led the nation outrage over at ESPN.

Not a full two years into his reign, isiah was already getting hate. the circus didn't actually start until LARRY BROWN. that's when it became a joke and i would have fired isiah, because the media sided so firmly with brown and everything about isiah was open to being rewritten to prove that brown was a better man and basketball mind. isiah was no longer the guy who drafted damon, vince, camby, mac...he was the guy who RUINED the raptors, which is such a lie, i still am shocked that KNOWLEDGABLE basketball fans let that slide. then, he RUINED the CBA, which was ALREADY on the verge of bankruptcy and a running joke...why do you think the CBA owners so eagerly sold to Isiah? but, you'd swear that thing was a cash cow. and the WORST of it was the BLATANT lies about his time as pacers coach. PLAYOFFS, all three years, with a young team that he BUILT.

now, you're making excuses. making it like a grown man can't be held accountable for his own actions. I asked you based on what Isiah actually did (not your perceptions on how he was wronged) in the 4.5 years he was in charge, would you have fired him?

[xxrainnn]

Felton may be bad, but he's definitely WAY BETTER than Duhon and that in itself has gotta be a synonymous AMEN from all Knick fans.

[nyqua11]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Actually Phoenix did offer him the max. They just didn't want to guarantee the fourth and the fifth year.

They offered 5 years, 96 million from what I can see. Not the max, since they could offer 6 years and refused because of health concerns. And the unguaranteed 4th and 5th years, which isn't the same as a fully guaranteed 5 year max deal.

[omerome]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Wow...really...

Are you really that dense? If we weren't as serious about getting Amar'e, another team would of. A team like Chicago or New Jersey could of EASILY offered him the max if we didn't decide that he was our man.

I can't believe you don't understand that.

"could of easily"? why didn't they offer him the max, then?

BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAD HIM VERBALLY COMMIT TO OUR TEAM!

Why would they waste their time when the only thing left to do is wait until he can officially sign with the team?

[seren]

no one offered amare the max, but the knicks. you know that.

Actually Phoenix did offer him the max. They just didn't want to guarantee the fourth and the fifth year.

so, they didn't offer what the knicks did?

They were worried about his health just as Chicago worried about Curry's health back in time.

Besides, Amare only talked to NY after Phoenix. So we really know the following: He talked to two teams. He got the max offer from two teams (albeit one is not fully guaranteed) and he took that offer. So it is impossible to know whether he would have gotten an offer from Chicago and NJ. Had he have held meetings just like LBJ did, maybe we could have had a better idea what other teams are offering him.

Heck, put it this way. We absolutely have no idea how many teams offered LBJ the max contract. Should we assume nobody offered him the max given he signed with Miami for less than the max? That would be absurd, wouldn't it?

[basaglia]

now, you're making excuses. making it like a grown man can't be held accountable for his own actions. I asked you based on what Isiah actually did (not your perceptions on how he was wronged) in the 4.5 years he was in charge, would you have fired him?

and i answered your question enough had transpired BEFORE 2008 for me to fire isiah.

but, the irony is, if we're being really real, if i had let it go until 2008, after what he went through with his estranged gay son being trotted out and taking the heat because mills and dolan fired She-Hulk, i would have REFUSED to fire him just to make the haters madder. and i swear that's what i think dolan's reasoning is sometimes. he wants isiah around just to make the haters hate more.

[basaglia]

BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAD HIM VERBALLY COMMIT TO OUR TEAM!

You're deluding yourself. Chicago could have offered. They didnt.

[bklynstoops]

now, you're making excuses. making it like a grown man can't be held accountable for his own actions. I asked you based on what Isiah actually did (not your perceptions on how he was wronged) in the 4.5 years he was in charge, would you have fired him?

and i answered your question enough had transpired BEFORE 2008 for me to fire isiah.

but, the irony is, if we're being really real, if i had let it go until 2008, after what he went through with his estranged gay son being trotted out and taking the heat because mills and dolan fired She-Hulk, i would have REFUSED to fire him just to make the haters madder. and i swear that's what i think dolan's reasoning is sometimes. he wants isiah around just to make the haters hate more.

no, what you essentially said was that you would've fired him for his own sake because your perception was that he was getting killed in the media for no reason. You've yet to make an assessment on his accomplishments/failures during his time with the KNicks. You're doing exactly what you're accusing Walsh lovers of doing--throwing around a lot of red herrings and excuses, without actually assessing what he did as the man in charge.

[duetta]

Amare was also offered his deal as part of a plan to land Lebron. If he doesn't fit in, yet remains healthy, he shouldn't be too difficult to move.

[basaglia]

no, what you essentially said was that you would've fired him for his own sake because your perception was that he was getting killed in the media for no reason. You've yet to make an assessment on his accomplishments/failures during his time with the KNicks. You're doing exactly what you're accusing Walsh lovers of doing--throwing around a lot of red herrings and excuses, without actually assessing what he did as the man in charge.

after TWO YEARS...it was for NO REASON. just like you're tryna say walsh is being critiqued by me after two years FOR NO REASON.

isiah's failures and success are a matter of record. i ain't gotta list them for you. he drafted some good players and made some bad trades. that's it, in short. he gave donnie a better start than layden gave him. isiah was gonna be over the cap for three years if he hadn't done ONE THING starting from dec. 2003. he could have just thrown that old man garbage out there FOR YEARS (spoon, dyess, ward, eisley, etc) and just drafted and he STILL would have been over the cap. donnie didn't have to START there. donnie had young pieces and expiring contracts coming off RIGHT AWAY.

[basaglia]

Amare was also offered his deal as part of a plan to land Lebron. If he doesn't fit in, yet remains healthy, he shouldn't be too difficult to move.

[seren]

no, what you essentially said was that you would've fired him for his own sake because your perception was that he was getting killed in the media for no reason. You've yet to make an assessment on his accomplishments/failures during his time with the KNicks. You're doing exactly what you're accusing Walsh lovers of doing--throwing around a lot of red herrings and excuses, without actually assessing what he did as the man in charge.

after TWO YEARS...it was for NO REASON. just like you're tryna say walsh is being critiqued by me after two years FOR NO REASON.

isiah's failures and success are a matter of record. i ain't gotta list them for you. he drafted some good players and made some bad trades. that's it, in short. he gave donnie a better start than layden gave him. isiah was gonna be over the cap for three years if he hadn't done ONE THING starting from dec. 2003. he could have just thrown that old man garbage out there FOR YEARS (spoon, dyess, ward, eisley, etc) and just drafted and he STILL would have been over the cap. donnie didn't have to START there. donnie had young pieces and expiring contracts coming off RIGHT AWAY.

I am happy you are not a Knicks fan.

[basaglia]

I am happy you are not a Knicks fan.

and i'm happy you are.

[omerome]

I am happy you are not a Knicks fan.

and i'm happy you are.

Yes I am thank you very much.

I will be even happier when you leave us alone too.

[dk7th]

awards and trophies and shiny stuff have nothing to do with winning. nothing. only winning-- being an integral part of a winning team-- counts for anything.

exactly. which is why all of the pats on the back walsh is getting is crazy. he's done nothing but let contracts expire, trade away two potential lottery picks...and overpaid amare, felton, duhon, etc. and his winning percentage as knicks GM is no better than zeke's.

you miss the point of the post. crawford and randolph are LOSERS. they make their teams WORSE. isiah brought in these overpaid losers which is worse than the players he inherited who for the most part were insignificant role players. had thomas not gone a-begging for a gig he would have told dolan the truth: we need to rebuild. instead he either (a) lied to dolan in order to get the job, ie "welcome to the playoffs," or (b) lied to himself that he could actually turn things around without gutting the roster.

bottom line thomas is a liar AND incompetent.

furthermore players like dinglebury, robinson, and jennings are incapable of being integral parts of winners because they do not have the ability to orchestrate and facilitate. if jennings was worth a damn as a point guard he would chuck less and facilitate more.

the fact that you lump jennings in with dinglebury and robinson is merely damning of isiah thomas's eye for winning players and damning of your own understanding of what constitutes a winning player at the nba level.

[bklynstoops]

no, what you essentially said was that you would've fired him for his own sake because your perception was that he was getting killed in the media for no reason. You've yet to make an assessment on his accomplishments/failures during his time with the KNicks. You're doing exactly what you're accusing Walsh lovers of doing--throwing around a lot of red herrings and excuses, without actually assessing what he did as the man in charge.

after TWO YEARS...it was for NO REASON. just like you're tryna say walsh is being critiqued by me after two years FOR NO REASON.

isiah's failures and success are a matter of record. i ain't gotta list them for you. he drafted some good players and made some bad trades. that's it, in short. he gave donnie a better start than layden gave him. isiah was gonna be over the cap for three years if he hadn't done ONE THING starting from dec. 2003. he could have just thrown that old man garbage out there FOR YEARS (spoon, dyess, ward, eisley, etc) and just drafted and he STILL would have been over the cap. donnie didn't have to START there. donnie had young pieces and expiring contracts coming off RIGHT AWAY.

well, first of all, I'm not trying to say anything about Walsh. You can criticize him all you want. I think everyone is going to just judge the criticism based on how rational it is. I just don't think you sound very rational because you're clearly hell-bent on seeing Isiah's successor look as bad. I'm just trying to get your assessment on Isiah the Knicks GM without having a whole lot of your own editorial on how the world is unfair.