Knicks thinking unthinkable with excelling Bargnani: a return?

[LifeLongKNICK]

we deserve barf. we really do.

[Bob Ross]

Guys I don't believe what I'm reading here. It's like you all have Stockholm Syndrome.

F*CK BARGS.

He does one thing well and that is losing NBA games. He's made a career of it. Not only do I want him off my team, I want him out of the country. I don't want to be on the same continent.

F*CK Bargs.

[Fat]

[Neutral 123]

Lol@ his post defense. He's only decent at it now because there are almost no centres with back to the basket games. If he was doing this against Shaq or against in the 90's then sure. But now?

The guy is a placeholder at best. Need a guy to fill a roster spot wile you lose, need a guy to put up a bunch of shots because no one else can score? He's your guy. Need to win? Need to play good defense? Need hustle, energy, high IQ? You want nothing to do with this guy.

[Neutral 123]

No one can play with Melo.

Bargs. Stat, Lin, Chandler....the proof is there.

When Melo is healthy, Bargs sucks. Right now Barhs looks like a superstar.

Melo might have his own issues but the story on Bargnani has never changed. Give him all the minutes he wants, give him all the shots he wants and he might give you a bit of effort. Ask him to fill a role and he gives you absolutely nothing.

[NoLayupRule]

I think Bargs is pure fools gold

Id take him back to fill out the bench at a min contract and let him prove himself

otherwise I only want to see him twice a season when Im throwing a faucet at him from the balcony or screaming at him on TV

[prophet_of_rage]

Remember when we were talking about Gasol and Dragic being perfect triangle fits who would come in free agency.
Remember PMFJB and all he'd have to do is drop his 11 rings on the table and everybody would come?
Now we're discussing the very real possibility of a Bargs return because there may not be anybody better. This has been a hard winter.

[moocow007]

Remember when we were talking about Gasol and Dragic being perfect triangle fits who would come in free agency.
Remember PMFJB and all he'd have to do is drop his 11 rings on the table and everybody would come?
Now we're discussing the very real possibility of a Bargs return because there may not be anybody better. This has been a hard winter.

I don't see why Bargnani coming back or not has anything to do with not being able to get anyone else. The reality is that the Knicks only have 6 guys under contract for next season (Anthony, Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Galloway and Acy). Of those 6 contracts, 3 are not fully guaranteed (Early, Galloway and Acy's contracts). Bargnani for cheap (and what is cheap is the debate) is about just that...trying to get a talented player that may actually fit the Triangle signed to a team that has a LOT of roster spots needing filling for cheap. I understand, folks hate him, but the rationalizing and exaggerating is going a bit nuts IMO. Also, Jackson apparently feels contrary to the masses, so who do we want to trust? Folks that are defending Jackson to the death should not also be saying that Bargnani is useless cause it's contradictory.

[prophet_of_rage]

Remember when we were talking about Gasol and Dragic being perfect triangle fits who would come in free agency.
Remember PMFJB and all he'd have to do is drop his 11 rings on the table and everybody would come?
Now we're discussing the very real possibility of a Bargs return because there may not be anybody better. This has been a hard winter.

I don't see why Bargnani coming back or not has anything to do with not being able to get anyone else. The reality is that the Knicks only have 6 guys under contract for next season (Anthony, Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Galloway and Acy). Of those 6 contracts, 3 are not fully guaranteed (Early, Galloway and Acy's contracts). Bargnani for cheap (and what is cheap is the debate) is about just that...trying to get a talented player that may actually fit the Triangle signed to a team that has a LOT of roster spots needing filling for cheap. I understand, folks hate him, but the rationalizing and exaggerating is going a bit nuts IMO. Also, Jackson apparently feels contrary to the masses, so who do we want to trust? Folks that are defending Jackson to the death should not also be saying that Bargnani is useless cause it's contradictory.

The problem is that we have to waive Bargs to get room to go after more free agents or we have his cap hold. So if we're going to bring him back it means that we either do it first and work with less cap space or we renounce and bring him back with whatever cap room is left, meaning nobody better wanted our money. Eithewr way leads to us not having better options.

[Deeeez Knicks]

theres no point to bringing him back because:

1 – he is always hurt
2 – when he's not hurt he sucks
3 – he makes every team worse...Bargs presence on the bench in a suit alone will automatically lose us 10 extra games

[don't panac]

Remember when we were talking about Gasol and Dragic being perfect triangle fits who would come in free agency.
Remember PMFJB and all he'd have to do is drop his 11 rings on the table and everybody would come?
Now we're discussing the very real possibility of a Bargs return because there may not be anybody better. This has been a hard winter.

I don't see why Bargnani coming back or not has anything to do with not being able to get anyone else. The reality is that the Knicks only have 6 guys under contract for next season (Anthony, Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Galloway and Acy). Of those 6 contracts, 3 are not fully guaranteed (Early, Galloway and Acy's contracts). Bargnani for cheap (and what is cheap is the debate) is about just that...trying to get a talented player that may actually fit the Triangle signed to a team that has a LOT of roster spots needing filling for cheap. I understand, folks hate him, but the rationalizing and exaggerating is going a bit nuts IMO. Also, Jackson apparently feels contrary to the masses, so who do we want to trust? Folks that are defending Jackson to the death should not also be saying that Bargnani is useless cause it's contradictory.

The problem is that we have to waive Bargs to get room to go after more free agents or we have his cap hold. So if we're going to bring him back it means that we either do it first and work with less cap space or we renounce and bring him back with whatever cap room is left, meaning nobody better wanted our money. Eithewr way leads to us not having better options.

not sure if follow.
wouldn't the cap hold disappear when the contract expires at the end of the season? no need to waive him.

i think you let him expire, look for better/cheaper alternatives but still consider him at the right price.
he will not anything close to the current contract, but if he keeps playing like in the last few games without getting injured, there will be teams offering 3-5 mil/year.

[Capn'O]

not sure if follow.
wouldn't the cap hold disappear when the contract expires at the end of the season? no need to waive him.

i think you let him expire, look for better/cheaper alternatives but still consider him at the right price.
he will not anything close to the current contract, but if he keeps playing like in the last few games without getting injured, there will be teams offering 3-5 mil/year.

No. His cap hold remains until you:

- re-sign him - then that dollar amount is added to the cap
- renounce his rights

That's how Bird rights work. You retain the rights after the contract expires and thus can go over the cap to retain the player.

[Capn'O]

Guys. Seriously. Bargs isn't coming back. Don't worry about it.

[Deeeez Knicks]

His minimum salary would also be something like $1.3mil. I dont think that all counts against the cap, but I would refuse to be responsible for giving Bargs that kind of money out of principle.

[don't panac]

not sure if follow.
wouldn't the cap hold disappear when the contract expires at the end of the season? no need to waive him.

i think you let him expire, look for better/cheaper alternatives but still consider him at the right price.
he will not anything close to the current contract, but if he keeps playing like in the last few games without getting injured, there will be teams offering 3-5 mil/year.

No. His cap hold remains until you:

- re-sign him - then that dollar amount is added to the cap
- renounce his rights

That's how Bird rights work. You retain the rights after the contract expires and thus can go over the cap to retain the player.

then you either low-ball him early on (3 mil/year), so you can work with the full cap, or you renounce his rights and eventually reconsider later on, if nothing better comes along.

certainly there is no team who would jump at him at anything like his current contract (obviously), so there would plenty of time to negotiate something reasonable if the interest is there

[Capn'O]

not sure if follow.
wouldn't the cap hold disappear when the contract expires at the end of the season? no need to waive him.

i think you let him expire, look for better/cheaper alternatives but still consider him at the right price.
he will not anything close to the current contract, but if he keeps playing like in the last few games without getting injured, there will be teams offering 3-5 mil/year.

No. His cap hold remains until you:

- re-sign him - then that dollar amount is added to the cap
- renounce his rights

That's how Bird rights work. You retain the rights after the contract expires and thus can go over the cap to retain the player.

then you either low-ball him early on (3 mil/year), so you can work with the full cap, or you renounce his rights and eventually reconsider later on, if nothing better comes along.

certainly there is no team who would jump at him at anything like his current contract (obviously), so there would plenty of time to negotiate something reasonable if the interest is there

My guess is they renounce and never look back.

With how he scores, Bargs is basically playing Melo's role ATM. He helps to evaluate the other guys. At the end of the day, Melo is waaaaay better at it.

[don't panac]

No. His cap hold remains until you:

- re-sign him - then that dollar amount is added to the cap
- renounce his rights

That's how Bird rights work. You retain the rights after the contract expires and thus can go over the cap to retain the player.

then you either low-ball him early on (3 mil/year), so you can work with the full cap, or you renounce his rights and eventually reconsider later on, if nothing better comes along.

certainly there is no team who would jump at him at anything like his current contract (obviously), so there would plenty of time to negotiate something reasonable if the interest is there

My guess is they renounce and never look back.

With how he scores, Bargs is basically playing Melo's role ATM. He helps to evaluate the other guys. At the end of the day, Melo is waaaaay better at it.

agreed.
still he could be a valuable backup at the right price

[K_ick_God]

His minimum salary would also be something like $1.3mil. I dont think that all counts against the cap, but I would refuse to be responsible for giving Bargs that kind of money out of principle.

None of the vet mins signed after you use cap room would count against the cap.

[moocow007]

Remember when we were talking about Gasol and Dragic being perfect triangle fits who would come in free agency.
Remember PMFJB and all he'd have to do is drop his 11 rings on the table and everybody would come?
Now we're discussing the very real possibility of a Bargs return because there may not be anybody better. This has been a hard winter.

I don't see why Bargnani coming back or not has anything to do with not being able to get anyone else. The reality is that the Knicks only have 6 guys under contract for next season (Anthony, Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Galloway and Acy). Of those 6 contracts, 3 are not fully guaranteed (Early, Galloway and Acy's contracts). Bargnani for cheap (and what is cheap is the debate) is about just that...trying to get a talented player that may actually fit the Triangle signed to a team that has a LOT of roster spots needing filling for cheap. I understand, folks hate him, but the rationalizing and exaggerating is going a bit nuts IMO. Also, Jackson apparently feels contrary to the masses, so who do we want to trust? Folks that are defending Jackson to the death should not also be saying that Bargnani is useless cause it's contradictory.

The problem is that we have to waive Bargs to get room to go after more free agents or we have his cap hold. So if we're going to bring him back it means that we either do it first and work with less cap space or we renounce and bring him back with whatever cap room is left, meaning nobody better wanted our money. Eithewr way leads to us not having better options.

Then they (Jackson) needs to decide what Bargnani's value is and either do one of those 2 things. My point is that automatically dismissing Bargnani coming back is premature. As far as both leading us to not having better options...why? Value is relative (not just for Bargnani but everyone else). So let's say Bargnani is willing to take $2 million (just for arguments sake) and we say "oh heck no, I hate you, I want to save that $2 million for something better, so goodbye". What other player are you going to sign that's better than the $2 million you just saved by letting him go? It's Jackson's job to decide Bargnani's value and then, if Bargnani thinks he's valued more (and he should), Jackson's job to try to get Bargnani to agree to less. That's what GM's are paid big bucks for and Jackson is the highest paid GM in the NBA right now.

[moocow007]

I'll be honest with you guys...a lot of you are reacting to the notion of Bargnani coming back on a reasonable deal like Henry Winkler's character (Coach Klein) did in the Water Boy did in the flashback scene where the other coach stole his playbook from right out of his own hands. When Coach Klein was on the phone (with the cord already cut) with his grandma, wearing high heels and going "I hate him grandma...I hate him, I hate him, I hate him!!!" Those of you that have watched the movie know what scene I mean. Same way he was irrational in that scene, so are some of you guys now.