ImageImageImageImageImage

Knicks will go after players who fit triangle

Moderators: mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks

ORANGEandBLUE
RealGM
Posts: 16,144
And1: 1,334
Joined: May 06, 2001

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#201 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:06 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:it's not just jose. it's jose, aaron, seraphin & o quinn who are all a little too slow to be effective. hopefully they learn from this.


That was who was available. With the exception of Seraphin, who Fisher asked for over Shved, who were the better options that we chose Afflalo and KOQ over for the price?

Here are guards who signed in that range. I'd take pretty much any 2 guys on this list over Afflalo/O'Quinn

Barrea
Barton
Bellinelli
Beverly
Aaron Brooks
Casspi
Dellevedova
Cory Joseph
Lin
Stuckey
Lou Williams
CJ Watson
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,947
And1: 45,641
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#202 » by GONYK » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:47 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:it's not just jose. it's jose, aaron, seraphin & o quinn who are all a little too slow to be effective. hopefully they learn from this.


That was who was available. With the exception of Seraphin, who Fisher asked for over Shved, who were the better options that we chose Afflalo and KOQ over for the price?

Here are guards who signed in that range. I'd take pretty much any 2 guys on this list over Afflalo/O'Quinn

Barrea
Barton
Bellinelli
Beverly
Aaron Brooks
Casspi
Dellevedova
Cory Joseph
Lin
Stuckey
Lou Williams
CJ Watson


Most of those guys weren't really available and almost all of them signed long-term deals
ORANGEandBLUE
RealGM
Posts: 16,144
And1: 1,334
Joined: May 06, 2001

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#203 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:54 pm

What's wrong with long-term deals? The alternative is spending the money this summer where everybody is even more overpriced, and also losing the "continuity" that Phil is always preaching.
EricAnderson
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,774
And1: 2,245
Joined: May 28, 2008

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#204 » by EricAnderson » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:07 pm

GONYK wrote:
Americafkya wrote:Can the management really be so dense as to not realize that the system is holding the team back?

That our players would operate better in the pick and roll, and our offense would be better by shooting more 3's and not posting up.

Our offense is putrid, ugly, slow, and predictable. Not a single team in this league runs this bull.

If the front office passes on talent just to get random retards who fit the system, then I will give up on the knicks until Phil kicks the bucket and Rambis is fired.

It's beginning to get unbearable.


Why would management think that? We haven't actually ever executed the system properly. It's actually getting kind of unbearable that people can't separate the context from the system.

The system, when run right, is a proven winner. In fact, no system has won more.

And save the "he had HOF'ers" nonsense. Pop has won waaaay less with 3 HOF'ers, and Kerr needs 3 future HOF'ers to win too.


I really don't care what the system is tbh.. The nba is a players league.

If there is one one thing in common with 99% of teams that win titles it's that they had arguably the best player in the league on it

Until we get the most talented players were not winning a title.. The system is secondary
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,947
And1: 45,641
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#205 » by GONYK » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:08 pm

EricAnderson wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Americafkya wrote:Can the management really be so dense as to not realize that the system is holding the team back?

That our players would operate better in the pick and roll, and our offense would be better by shooting more 3's and not posting up.

Our offense is putrid, ugly, slow, and predictable. Not a single team in this league runs this bull.

If the front office passes on talent just to get random retards who fit the system, then I will give up on the knicks until Phil kicks the bucket and Rambis is fired.

It's beginning to get unbearable.


Why would management think that? We haven't actually ever executed the system properly. It's actually getting kind of unbearable that people can't separate the context from the system.

The system, when run right, is a proven winner. In fact, no system has won more.

And save the "he had HOF'ers" nonsense. Pop has won waaaay less with 3 HOF'ers, and Kerr needs 3 future HOF'ers to win too.


I really don't care what the system is tbh.. The nba is a players league.

If there is one one thing in common with 99% of teams that win titles it's that they had arguably the best player in the league on it

Until we get the most talented players were not winning a title


Agreed, talent trumps all
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,947
And1: 45,641
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#206 » by GONYK » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:13 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:What's wrong with long-term deals? The alternative is spending the money this summer where everybody is even more overpriced, and also losing the "continuity" that Phil is always preaching.


Because those players aren't really worth investing in either. At least Afflalo is off the books after 1 year, and we can re-invest better (hopefully).

I would rather have one disappointing year from AA than 4 years of Barea or Stuckey.
Johnny Hoops
RealGM
Posts: 12,635
And1: 2,212
Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#207 » by Johnny Hoops » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:16 pm

What if Hawks (losing Horford) agreed to a RoLo for Teague/Thabo-S deal.


Knicks go out and sign Noah and Fournier.

To keep Noah mins down we get KP some minutes at the 5 and we use Melo some at the 4.

Teague/ Grant / Wroten
Fournier / Thabo
Melo / Lance
KP / D-Will
Noah / KOQ

Primary issue is Teague becomes a free agent the following season and we are back in that game.
User avatar
Triple C
Knicks Forum The Good News
Posts: 7,524
And1: 16,885
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
Location: Sunnydale
     

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#208 » by Triple C » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:18 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TWroten_LOE/status/721461617024704512[/tweet]

Wroten is hyped :lol:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TWroten_LOE/status/721463491668873216[/tweet]

And maybe will play in summer league
Image
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,947
And1: 45,641
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#209 » by GONYK » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:19 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:What if Hawks (losing Horford) agreed to a RoLo for Teague/Thabo-S deal.


Knicks go out and sign Noah and Fournier.

To keep Noah mins down we get KP some minutes at the 5 and we use Melo some at the 4.

Teague/ Grant / Wroten
Fournier / Thabo
Melo / Lance
KP / D-Will
Noah / KOQ

Primary issue is Teague becomes a free agent the following season and we are back in that game.


I'd rather just pay Teague as a FA, since I don't think he's staying in ATL.

I'd consider Rolo for Schroeder, not Teague.
Coeur
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,805
And1: 669
Joined: Jan 18, 2016

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#210 » by Coeur » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:14 pm

GONYK wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:What if Hawks (losing Horford) agreed to a RoLo for Teague/Thabo-S deal.


Knicks go out and sign Noah and Fournier.

To keep Noah mins down we get KP some minutes at the 5 and we use Melo some at the 4.

Teague/ Grant / Wroten
Fournier / Thabo
Melo / Lance
KP / D-Will
Noah / KOQ

Primary issue is Teague becomes a free agent the following season and we are back in that game.


I'd rather just pay Teague as a FA, since I don't think he's staying in ATL.

I'd consider Rolo for Schroeder, not Teague.

Atl will trade him to someone. Expecting everything for free is going to lead to disappointment. Some of the talent, if this team ever becomes good, will have to come from trades.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,947
And1: 45,641
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#211 » by GONYK » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:15 pm

Coeur wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:What if Hawks (losing Horford) agreed to a RoLo for Teague/Thabo-S deal.


Knicks go out and sign Noah and Fournier.

To keep Noah mins down we get KP some minutes at the 5 and we use Melo some at the 4.

Teague/ Grant / Wroten
Fournier / Thabo
Melo / Lance
KP / D-Will
Noah / KOQ

Primary issue is Teague becomes a free agent the following season and we are back in that game.


I'd rather just pay Teague as a FA, since I don't think he's staying in ATL.

I'd consider Rolo for Schroeder, not Teague.

Atl will trade him to someone. Expecting everything for free is going to lead to disappointment. Some of the talent, if this team ever becomes good, will have to come from trades.


I'm aware. I just am not that high on Teague.
User avatar
Red Vines
RealGM
Posts: 34,849
And1: 10,193
Joined: Jun 26, 2005
     

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#212 » by Red Vines » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:43 pm

As long as we get a legit starting SG we'll be fine next year. But they seem hard to come by right now.
Knickerbock
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,699
And1: 897
Joined: Feb 12, 2016
 

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#213 » by Knickerbock » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:33 am

The Triangle is the focus of everything negative for no reason..

All that statement means is Knicks management will go after hard working and good character guys with high basketball IQ...
drekwins
Head Coach
Posts: 7,288
And1: 4,692
Joined: Jun 05, 2008
     

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#214 » by drekwins » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:43 am

What's so frustrating about Phil is that he fails to recognize that the game has changed. The triangle made perfect sense when there wasn't as much freedom of movement. Hand checking and physical play made penetration much more difficult. However, those days are long gone. Dribble penetration is easier than finding 5 high IQ players that can learn a system that's different than they've ever played in before.

I'm not saying that the triangle is a bad thing or that it doesn't have a place. All that I'm saying is that it's insane to dismiss the idea of dribble penetration. The whole point of an organized offense is to create double teams, then move the ball like hell until you find an open guy. Alternatively, when you have a superstar, you try to create situations where they can succeed and get open. The triangle works by creating spacing/movement and then moving the ball once a double team is created via the post. The problem is that this requires a big time post guy that can also pass, a bunch of unselfish players, high IQ and very good shooters. Not to mention, these players also have to play defense (ala why calderon doesn't work).

Dribble penetration, on the other hand, automatically sinks the defense in and creates double teams. Then, the ball must move and/or make its way to your best player. This way of playing is so much easier to excel at with the given talent pool in today's NBA. This is also why nearly every PG drafted in recent years 15 or higher has panned out well (except johnny flynn). Penetration is just so easy nowadays. Yet, the Knicks don't embrace it.
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,773
And1: 48,743
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#215 » by dakomish23 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:56 am

Priggy Smalls wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:honestly what player does that mean we will no longer go after.

If it means we wont go after that empty stat loser Rondo then I am all for it.

if we're going off last summer it means seraphin(after we already signed a million bigs) instead of lin, shved or any other guard.

i guess it would be something like jared sullinger over evan turner at the same price this year.


A combo of Jennings and Turner seems inevitable
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
CJackson
General Manager
Posts: 9,584
And1: 5,221
Joined: Mar 05, 2016

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#216 » by CJackson » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:10 am

drekwins wrote:What's so frustrating about Phil is that he fails to recognize that the game has changed. The triangle made perfect sense when there wasn't as much freedom of movement. Hand checking and physical play made penetration much more difficult. However, those days are long gone. Dribble penetration is easier than finding 5 high IQ players that can learn a system that's different than they've ever played in before.

I'm not saying that the triangle is a bad thing or that it doesn't have a place. All that I'm saying is that it's insane to dismiss the idea of dribble penetration. The whole point of an organized offense is to create double teams, then move the ball like hell until you find an open guy. Alternatively, when you have a superstar, you try to create situations where they can succeed and get open. The triangle works by creating spacing/movement and then moving the ball once a double team is created via the post. The problem is that this requires a big time post guy that can also pass, a bunch of unselfish players, high IQ and very good shooters. Not to mention, these players also have to play defense (ala why calderon doesn't work).

Dribble penetration, on the other hand, automatically sinks the defense in and creates double teams. Then, the ball must move and/or make its way to your best player. This way of playing is so much easier to excel at with the given talent pool in today's NBA. This is also why nearly every PG drafted in recent years 15 or higher has panned out well (except johnny flynn). Penetration is just so easy nowadays. Yet, the Knicks don't embrace it.


:clap:

+ mix in consistent execution of the PnR and you get a real bang for your buck
Jeffrey
General Manager
Posts: 8,580
And1: 6,267
Joined: Aug 02, 2010
     

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#217 » by Jeffrey » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:54 am

I'll take Delladova. He's going to cost about 6-9 million. He is a 41% 3pt shooter, pesky defender and everyone in the NBA hates his arse.
Johnny Hoops
RealGM
Posts: 12,635
And1: 2,212
Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#218 » by Johnny Hoops » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:39 am

GONYK wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:What if Hawks (losing Horford) agreed to a RoLo for Teague/Thabo-S deal.


Knicks go out and sign Noah and Fournier.

To keep Noah mins down we get KP some minutes at the 5 and we use Melo some at the 4.

Teague/ Grant / Wroten
Fournier / Thabo
Melo / Lance
KP / D-Will
Noah / KOQ

Primary issue is Teague becomes a free agent the following season and we are back in that game.


I'd rather just pay Teague as a FA, since I don't think he's staying in ATL.

I'd consider Rolo for Schroeder, not Teague.


Yeah - But I don't see ATlanta parting with Schroeder because he's cost controlled.

2 questions....

Do you think my proposed RoLo for Teague/Thabo deal is pretty fair?
What do you think of idea of getting PG via trade and then going after Noah/Fournier combo?
User avatar
damedash09
Analyst
Posts: 3,703
And1: 1,538
Joined: Feb 11, 2011

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#219 » by damedash09 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:55 am

triangle of medicority. Get ready for the 12th seed.
User avatar
Capn'O
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 90,401
And1: 110,359
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: Bone Goal
 

Re: Knicks will go after players who fit triangle 

Post#220 » by Capn'O » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:13 am

Knickerbock wrote:The Triangle is the focus of everything negative for no reason..

All that statement means is Knicks management will go after hard working and good character guys with high basketball IQ...


Yup. And specific skills.
BAF Clippers:
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

:beer:

Return to New York Knicks