Around the NBA - Haha, just kidding, always knew the Nuggets would take it

[thebuzzardman]

Lot of this Luka talk is based off potential and expectations

People expect that he'll go on and make deep playoff runs in the future, and are using that to justify why he's great now when if it's a player they don't like as much, they only look at what he has done, and assume they won't ever do anything more

Yes, Luka at 21 is, statistically, one of the best players in the league. But if the metric is winning playoff series, he hasn't got that yet. I'm not gonna knock him for losing to a really good team missing his 2nd best player, but you can't use future potential victories when judging him either.

Yes it’s very impressive that he’s at Harden’s level at such a young age and he can definitely get better . Nobody said otherwise. Me and Buzz were just saying he plays the same way as Harden and numbers wise they are very similar as well.
So we were confused on why mpharris doesn’t like Harden but stans for Luka when they are very similar players.

This.

Plus I like yanking MPHarris's chain almost as much as Shammgods. Well, maybe not THAT much.

[mpharris36]

that's fair but if you allow me play devil's advocate, last year Giannis was in the ECF and lost to Kawhi and the eventual nba champs, and Harden has also taken houston to the conference finals where the warriors super team was always a little too much to overcome, in fact they lost to the warriors 4 times in the past 6 seasons, and now this year he lost to LeBron and AD. Is there really a great deal of shame in that

there isn't shame I just don't think I am knocking them saying they both are top 10 players. If anything gun to my head Giannis is probably is a top 5 player (just got frustrated a bit that if this wasn't going to be MIL year then when is it?) to me as well because he is a legit difference maker on defense too. I think anyone can't do it on there own the NBA has always been that case.

Giannis probably feels the same because he met with the bucks about the future and probably doesn't see a path to the finals as currently constituted.

I do agree with you that if we are factoring in projection, what they have done at a comparable age, and who you would take if you were starting a franchise, etc. Luka would be my first pick right now. But when you negate those things I think you just have Lebron and Kawhi above all right now.

The Bucks screwed Giannis by being cheap and not keeping Brogdon. He should leave. Also, the Rockets completely bungled the cp3 situation. Westbrook looks washed and is super maxed for 3 more years, and they traded cp3(who was better in the playoffs) as well as 2024, 2026 FRP and pick swaps in 2021 and 2025.

Yes if I'm starting a playoff series I would take LeBron and Kawhi over Luka because of there historical performances. Can't deny the playoff success both these guys have had. So there is projection with Luka at that point so I agree.

I think if I'm starting a team I am going with Luka hands down just because of what he is doing at 20. And lets be honest if Luka had AD or PG13 and the clippers roster I think Luka would be in the situations both LeBron and Kawhi are in right now.

[3toheadmelo]

Lot of this Luka talk is based off potential and expectations

People expect that he'll go on and make deep playoff runs in the future, and are using that to justify why he's great now when if it's a player they don't like as much, they only look at what he has done, and assume they won't ever do anything more

Yes, Luka at 21 is, statistically, one of the best players in the league. But if the metric is winning playoff series, he hasn't got that yet. I'm not gonna knock him for losing to a really good team missing his 2nd best player, but you can't use future potential victories when judging him either.

I'm not into comparing player projections.

In this latest round of Knick board pettiness, I'm just stating that Luka and Harden are DAMN similar, right now. Nearly exactly players.

Which is awesome for a 2nd year player, as Harden took about 6 seasons to be this version of Harden, which he has then maintained for about 6 seasons. Which is also awesome. In fact, Harden might get plus points for maintaining it for 6 years.
But let's not give him that. And lets not give Luka his "upside", as this might be it - or it might not, but if it's it's already awesome.

But now, there are effectively the same guy.

Exactly. Right now, they’re like clones of each other

[jvsimonetti0514]

Harden is 31 now.

He is old enough to be a risky sign because he can lose athleticism and be more injury-prone due to age.

But he is relatively young to be a really expensive trade.

He makes sense only for a win-now team.

I was talking about how the Bucks should try to trade for Harden instead of Paul. So yes Harden is younger. Even at 31, Harden’s game isn’t really based on athleticism And he’s never been seriously injured either. So I don’t see why he wouldn’t have 4/5 great years left.

For the Knicks, having harden in place here with a max spot still open easily puts us in serious conversation with any of the upcoming elite free agents on the market. The guy is arguably a top 5 player in the league, and outside of golden state who can offer Giannis a better running mates than that?

Who are the elite FAs available in 2021 besides Giannis? Do you think LA stars are going to walk? Do you consider Oladipo, Jrue or Drummond, elite FAs?

There’s probably not another elite free agent outside of the LA guys and Giannis but apparently Beal has an opt out next summer and can take the 7 year player max. Plus he’s only 27. You’d still have Mitch and our picks to make a move for someone else too. The only team that’s definitely better than that is the Celtics and how long are they going to be able to keep that gang together?

[thebuzzardman]

my top 5 right now in no praticular order

LeBron
Luka
Kawhi

now the rest can be personal preference i believe but I like

Giannis
PG13
Dame
KD (assuming he is healthy)
Curry (assuming he is healthy)

then I round it out with Harden and AD.

That is my top 10

Tatum is just on the outside looking in as an up and commer to that list if one of the old heads or injured guys can't make it back to there regular form.

C'mon. It's silly that Luka makes into that list, and the top 3, but Harden is nowhere to be found.

If you question was, who do you take because you want to build with them, obviously it's Luka.

I didn't realize players were being awarded 5-7 steps in the rankings based on age, and dropping the same number based on (advancing) age.

RIGHT now, Harden is a top 10 player, and how high he gets ranked is based on how much value defense gets. Which ironically, is the same way that Luka should get judged. RIGHT NOW.

Obviously any sane person ranks Luka higher in "Player I think will be better in 5 years" or "Player I'd rather have on my franchise"

[robillionaire]

there isn't shame I just don't think I am knocking them saying they both are top 10 players. If anything gun to my head Giannis is probably is a top 5 player (just got frustrated a bit that if this wasn't going to be MIL year then when is it?) to me as well because he is a legit difference maker on defense too. I think anyone can't do it on there own the NBA has always been that case.

Giannis probably feels the same because he met with the bucks about the future and probably doesn't see a path to the finals as currently constituted.

I do agree with you that if we are factoring in projection, what they have done at a comparable age, and who you would take if you were starting a franchise, etc. Luka would be my first pick right now. But when you negate those things I think you just have Lebron and Kawhi above all right now.

The Bucks screwed Giannis by being cheap and not keeping Brogdon. He should leave. Also, the Rockets completely bungled the cp3 situation. Westbrook looks washed and is super maxed for 3 more years, and they traded cp3(who was better in the playoffs) as well as 2024, 2026 FRP and pick swaps in 2021 and 2025.

Yes if I'm starting a playoff series I would take LeBron and Kawhi over Luka because of there historical performances. Can't deny the playoff success both these guys have had. So there is projection with Luka at that point so I agree.

I think if I'm starting a team I am going with Luka hands down just because of what he is doing at 20. And lets be honest if Luka had AD or PG13 and the clippers roster I think Luka would be in the situations both LeBron and Kawhi are in right now.

well let's just hope for luka's sake that one day dallas can finally land a 2nd star

[mpharris36]

my top 5 right now in no praticular order

LeBron
Luka
Kawhi

now the rest can be personal preference i believe but I like

Giannis
PG13
Dame
KD (assuming he is healthy)
Curry (assuming he is healthy)

then I round it out with Harden and AD.

That is my top 10

Tatum is just on the outside looking in as an up and commer to that list if one of the old heads or injured guys can't make it back to there regular form.

C'mon. It's silly that Luka makes into that list, and the top 3, but Harden is nowhere to be found.

If you question was, who do you take because you want to build with them, obviously it's Luka.

I didn't realize players were being awarded 5-7 steps in the rankings based on age, and dropping the same number based on (advancing) age.

RIGHT now, Harden is a top 10 player, and how high he gets ranked is based on how much value defense gets. Which ironically, is the same way that Luka should get judged. RIGHT NOW.

Obviously any sane person ranks Luka higher in "Player I think will be better in 5 years" or "Player I'd rather have on my franchise"

why wouldn't the player that I think 99.9% of the league would start there franchise with next year not be in your top tier of players?

[robillionaire]

my top 5 right now in no praticular order

LeBron
Luka
Kawhi

now the rest can be personal preference i believe but I like

Giannis
PG13
Dame
KD (assuming he is healthy)
Curry (assuming he is healthy)

then I round it out with Harden and AD.

That is my top 10

Tatum is just on the outside looking in as an up and commer to that list if one of the old heads or injured guys can't make it back to there regular form.

C'mon. It's silly that Luka makes into that list, and the top 3, but Harden is nowhere to be found.

If you question was, who do you take because you want to build with them, obviously it's Luka.

I didn't realize players were being awarded 5-7 steps in the rankings based on age, and dropping the same number based on (advancing) age.

RIGHT now, Harden is a top 10 player, and how high he gets ranked is based on how much value defense gets. Which ironically, is the same way that Luka should get judged. RIGHT NOW.

Obviously any sane person ranks Luka higher in "Player I think will be better in 5 years" or "Player I'd rather have on my franchise"

why wouldn't the player that I think 99.9% of the league would start there franchise with next year not be in your top tier of players?

he is in my top tier of players. this is just going by your own metric where you pinged giannis and harden for a lack of success in the playoffs, yet Luka has still never won a playoff series. so as buzz said if we are talking about "RIGHT NOW" and leaving the projection part out of the equation and holding them all to the same standards, I couldn't in good faith put Luka a step above a Giannis or Harden until he actually proves it and gets to the finals

[mpharris36]

C'mon. It's silly that Luka makes into that list, and the top 3, but Harden is nowhere to be found.

If you question was, who do you take because you want to build with them, obviously it's Luka.

I didn't realize players were being awarded 5-7 steps in the rankings based on age, and dropping the same number based on (advancing) age.

RIGHT now, Harden is a top 10 player, and how high he gets ranked is based on how much value defense gets. Which ironically, is the same way that Luka should get judged. RIGHT NOW.

Obviously any sane person ranks Luka higher in "Player I think will be better in 5 years" or "Player I'd rather have on my franchise"

why wouldn't the player that I think 99.9% of the league would start there franchise with next year not be in your top tier of players?

he is in my top tier of players. this is just going by your own metric where you pinged giannis and harden for a lack of success in the playoffs, yet Luka has still never won a playoff series. so as buzz said if we are talking about "RIGHT NOW" and leaving the projection part out of the equation and holding them all to the same standards, I couldn't in good faith put Luka a step above a Giannis or Harden until he actually proves it and gets to the finals

I think that is tricky because then are we going to say that MJ or LeBron werent the best players in the NBA when they were still struggling to get into the finals?

Luka literally had the best season a 20 year old ever had. I think that has to account for something. Then in the playoffs he even played better, he just had THjr as his second best player

[Montmorencie]

I know the inexperienced is the appropriate word but damn... I just can't hold myself not to call MPJ dumb.

[Montmorencie]

The players from the Balkans gathered for a dinner and sang Serbian songs. Yeah, coach, I'm sure the Croatians, Slovenians and Bosnians sang them songs.

[Montmorencie]

It's Jokic vs Clippers all over again.

[DOT]

Lot of this Luka talk is based off potential and expectations

People expect that he'll go on and make deep playoff runs in the future, and are using that to justify why he's great now when if it's a player they don't like as much, they only look at what he has done, and assume they won't ever do anything more

Yes, Luka at 21 is, statistically, one of the best players in the league. But if the metric is winning playoff series, he hasn't got that yet. I'm not gonna knock him for losing to a really good team missing his 2nd best player, but you can't use future potential victories when judging him either.

I'm not into comparing player projections.

In this latest round of Knick board pettiness, I'm just stating that Luka and Harden are DAMN similar, right now. Nearly exactly players.

Which is awesome for a 2nd year player, as Harden took about 6 seasons to be this version of Harden, which he has then maintained for about 6 seasons. Which is also awesome. In fact, Harden might get plus points for maintaining it for 6 years.
But let's not give him that. And lets not give Luka his "upside", as this might be it - or it might not, but if it's it's already awesome.

But now, there are effectively the same guy.

Exactly. Right now, they’re like clones of each other

[Richard4444]

I was talking about how the Bucks should try to trade for Harden instead of Paul. So yes Harden is younger. Even at 31, Harden’s game isn’t really based on athleticism And he’s never been seriously injured either. So I don’t see why he wouldn’t have 4/5 great years left.

For the Knicks, having harden in place here with a max spot still open easily puts us in serious conversation with any of the upcoming elite free agents on the market. The guy is arguably a top 5 player in the league, and outside of golden state who can offer Giannis a better running mates than that?

Who are the elite FAs available in 2021 besides Giannis? Do you think LA stars are going to walk? Do you consider Oladipo, Jrue or Drummond, elite FAs?

There’s probably not another elite free agent outside of the LA guys and Giannis but apparently Beal has an opt out next summer and can take the 7 year player max. Plus he’s only 27. You’d still have Mitch and our picks to make a move for someone else too. The only team that’s definitely better than that is the Celtics and how long are they going to be able to keep that gang together?

I think Beal has a PO in 2022.

[robillionaire]

why wouldn't the player that I think 99.9% of the league would start there franchise with next year not be in your top tier of players?

he is in my top tier of players. this is just going by your own metric where you pinged giannis and harden for a lack of success in the playoffs, yet Luka has still never won a playoff series. so as buzz said if we are talking about "RIGHT NOW" and leaving the projection part out of the equation and holding them all to the same standards, I couldn't in good faith put Luka a step above a Giannis or Harden until he actually proves it and gets to the finals

I think that is tricky because then are we going to say that MJ or LeBron werent the best players in the NBA when they were still struggling to get into the finals?

Luka literally had the best season a 20 year old ever had. I think that has to account for something. Then in the playoffs he even played better, he just had THjr as his second best player

I actually think it would have been fair at the time to withhold calling MJ or LeBron the best players in the NBA until they actually proved it by winning. In hindsight, we can say that they were the best players in the NBA even before they won and of course those who were saying it all along would have been proven correct. But I still think it would have been logical to not accept it until it was demonstrated.

It kinda reminds me of a discussion where someone asked if a person thousands of years ago said there was a black hole in space and it was not based on any kind of measurable evidence but say a gut feeling or some kind of magic or something not reliable, would it have been logical or reasonable at the time to believe their claim? And I think the answer is still no until such time it has been demonstrated, even though ultimately they were right. But to your point, that's what talking about sports is mostly about, making claims about the future and trying to predict it.

It's easy to put Luka in that same category of the pre-championship MJ or Lebron and people saying he is, or will be, the best player in the NBA are likely to be proven right, but I think until he actually demonstrates it and earns that accolade that others have, it's fair to withhold putting him there right now

[WargamesX]

I’m surprised that D’antoni bailed. That team was made for his style of coaching........


So can we stop pretending that he wasn’t a **** coach for us now?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You know what.........Jokic is a better playoff performer than Giannis, and much better for half court basketball.

[TheGreenArrow]

Denver wow. What a comeback, can they complete it though??

[DOT]

Didn't even realize the game was going on right now

[TheGreenArrow]

You know what.........Jokic is a better playoff performer than Giannis, and much better for half court basketball.

I can’t believe I ever though porzingis was better.