2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[Reign23]

When is the last time Leon Rose actually spoke? Has he ever given the rationale behind the Toppin/Quickley picks?

At this point we still have no idea what the front office's philosophy is when evaluating picks.

this is crazy, right? you don't see/hear him... like ever.

[cgf]

ziaire hasn't really done anything, his stats are bad, his turnovers are also high, seems like he should be in bj boston territory

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=bj-boston--ziaire-williams

Have you watched him since he got healthy?

[cgf]

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

You are also assuming that Obi wasn't an upside pick.

He wasn't.

...you assume.

[DOT]

Front offices provide some type of rationale or feedback on why they chose their guy. I don't recall Leon Rose speaking on it at all (unless I'm missing something). Usually once they provide some insight, the media and fanbase can begin to figure out what their draft philosophy is. At this point, we're all shooting in the dark. We have no idea what they look for other than Kentucky/CAA connections. So regarding older prospects vs. 18 year olds, we still don't have much to go off.

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

If we're in the 6-10 range my board is looking like this:

(Cade, Suggs, Mobley, Green, Kuminga gone)...

Jalen Johnson (questionable fit for us)
Bouknight
Moody
Ziaire
Kispert
Barnes (questionable fit for us)

I wonder what it would take for us to get one of Cade or Suggs?

We probably can't get all the way to 1st without moving up to at least the 3rd pick in the lottery, but if Cade goes 1st and Mobley 2nd, I think 6 and 10 might get it done to get 3

Cause I think our biggest need is still PG. While I hope Quick becomes good enough to be a full-time PG, I'm gonna hedge my bets on that one, and say we should just run a 2-PG lineup with him and Suggs/Cade if we get the chance to draft one of them. Or we can play him like we do this year and have him come off the bench but still finish games if we want to stagger more

Also depends on who gets the first pick. But if we can get Cade without giving up RJ (and Quick to a lesser extent, Mitch to a lesser lesser extent), we should do so.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

If we're in the 6-10 range my board is looking like this:

(Cade, Suggs, Mobley, Green, Kuminga gone)...

Jalen Johnson (questionable fit for us)
Bouknight
Moody
Ziaire
Kispert
Barnes (questionable fit for us)

I wonder what it would take for us to get one of Cade or Suggs?

We probably can't get all the way to 1st without moving up to at least the 3rd pick in the lottery, but if Cade goes 1st and Mobley 2nd, I think 6 and 10 might get it done to get 3

Cause I think our biggest need is still PG. While I hope Quick becomes good enough to be a full-time PG, I'm gonna hedge my bets on that one, and say we should just run a 2-PG lineup with him and Suggs/Cade if we get the chance to draft one of them. Or we can play him like we do this year and have him come off the bench but still finish games if we want to stagger more

Also depends on who gets the first pick. But if we can get Cade without giving up RJ (and Quick to a lesser extent, Mitch to a lesser lesser extent), we should do so.

If we get the 6 & 10 they're trading them for an established player, there's just no way we're going to have two rookies on the team next year. The only way we keep both picks is if they're both in the top 5, anything outside of that is getting shopped IMO.

[jvsimonetti0514]

I haven't watched Ziaire Williams yet but someone is willing to take him over Suggs? The guy is shooting 36% from the field right now and more turnovers than assists. That seems a little crazy to me. Realistically how many guys that struggle in college end up turning it around in the NBA? I feel like that's gotta be a really small list.

He only really struggled at the start of the season, when his pre-season bike crash was still limiting his athleticism & shot...he was wearing a huge offensive-lineman knee brace before the new year. Since getting healthy, the only area where he has continued to struggle has been finishing around the rim; which is mostly a function of getting pushed around because he still needs to fill out.

He's a good shooter, off the bounce or as a C&S guy; a good playmaker when Stanford puts the ball in his hands...see his tripple double for what he's capable of when Stanford runs their offense through him...though he does need to get better about not rifling the ball in too hard for his team-mates to catch; an excellent defender, who checks the opposition's best perimeter guy; and all around just a very smart player who consistently makes good decisions & helps his team.

He probably won't be a star right away, but the kid will be able to contribute with his length, springiness, passing, shot & intelligence, while he fills out & develops.

Watch on YouTube

When was he considered back from injury? I mean he's still shooting under 40% in 2021 with below average % from 3, and more turnovers than assists. I guess you can say he's trending in the right direction but the numbers are still not painting a pretty picture. Hopefully in the next month he'll turn it around cuz we need more good prospects in the late lottery.

[DOT]

You are also assuming that Obi wasn't an upside pick.

He wasn't.

...you assume.

Do you know how much worse that looks if we did draft him for "upside"?

Stop trying to make it seem like Rose has a hidden agenda and is playing 4d chess. He took the kid he thought would be best right away, and it flopped. You don't draft a kid who turns 23 in his rookie year for "upside", you draft him cause you think he has the highest floor

People keep trying to retroactively make this about upside. Nobody ever said Obi has the highest upside and he'd be a developmental guy before we drafted him, or even after we drafted him but before the season started

Now we're retconning it because he looks so much more raw than we thought. Just say we were wrong about him having a high floor and move on.

[Reign23]

Just going off the two picks, I'm assuming Rose leans heavily on college production over perceived upside

That would make sense with why we went Obi over guys like Haliburton and Deni, and if the rumor we wanted to go to 5 to grab Obi is true it meant we wanted him more than at least three of Okoro, Hayes, Williams, and Okongwu (because I think it was an open secret Ball, Wiseman, and Edwards were going top 3 in some order, so the only question would be what happened at 4), all of which are younger and arguably have more upside

So I would guess assuming the picks are in the 6-10 range that if things stay the way they are, Bouknight and Kispert will be pretty high on our board.

If we're in the 6-10 range my board is looking like this:

(Cade, Suggs, Mobley, Green, Kuminga gone)...

Jalen Johnson (questionable fit for us)
Bouknight
Moody
Ziaire
Kispert
Barnes (questionable fit for us)

I wonder what it would take for us to get one of Cade or Suggs?

We probably can't get all the way to 1st without moving up to at least the 3rd pick in the lottery, but if Cade goes 1st and Mobley 2nd, I think 6 and 10 might get it done to get 3

Cause I think our biggest need is still PG. While I hope Quick becomes good enough to be a full-time PG, I'm gonna hedge my bets on that one, and say we should just run a 2-PG lineup with him and Suggs/Cade if we get the chance to draft one of them. Or we can play him like we do this year and have him come off the bench but still finish games if we want to stagger more

Also depends on who gets the first pick. But if we can get Cade without giving up RJ (and Quick to a lesser extent, Mitch to a lesser lesser extent), we should do so.

If we have 2 picks in the 6-12 range I would definitely move both picks and another asset to move into the top 3.

[3toheadmelo]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

[robillionaire]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

if he got the minutes rookie Knox did I don't doubt he could be a walking 20-10, he just doesn't even get to play

[3toheadmelo]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

if he got the minutes rookie Knox did I don't doubt he could be a walking 20-10, he just doesn't even get to play

He doesn’t play cause he’s ass.

[Reign23]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

if he got the minutes rookie Knox did I don't doubt he could be a walking 20-10, he just doesn't even get to play

He doesn’t play cause he’s ass.

come on.. he is not ass. he showed some flashes already and should get more than 10 minutes. he missed a lot of time due to injury..

[jvsimonetti0514]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

All the journo scouts thought he'd be a shoe in for rookie of the year and a dominate offensive force. I'm gonna assume that our front office thought the same thing. Turns out NBA length is a huge problem for him and his jumper isn't as good as the numbers said. I still don't want to be too harsh on him since he barely gets any playing time to adjust and we had the weirdest offseason ever but he's def more of a project than everyone thought. At least he plays with a lot of effort, so I'm more confident he'll figure it out than Knox but it's def disappointing.

[Reign23]

if we really get 2 high picks (I don't even get my hopes up btw)... god would thibs hate this

[DOT]

Imo I think our FO assumed Obi was gonna be a walking 20-10 but instead it looks like he’s a major project. Like Knox

if he got the minutes rookie Knox did I don't doubt he could be a walking 20-10, he just doesn't even get to play

Per 36, Obi vs rookie Knox:

Obi: 14/7/2 on 43/28/78 splits, .518 TS
Knox: 16/6/2 on 37/34/72 splits, .475 TS

[3toheadmelo]

if he got the minutes rookie Knox did I don't doubt he could be a walking 20-10, he just doesn't even get to play

He doesn’t play cause he’s ass.

come on.. he is not ass. he showed some flashes already and should get more than 10 minutes. he missed a lot of time due to injury..

He’s pretty bad. Only flashes he’s shown is hitting 3’s and catching lobs. Nothing special there

[Reign23]

He doesn’t play cause he’s ass.

come on.. he is not ass. he showed some flashes already and should get more than 10 minutes. he missed a lot of time due to injury..

He’s pretty bad. Only flashes he’s shown is hitting 3’s and catching lobs. Nothing special there

he is in a pretty bad situation come on. you have to play him as a rim runner/slasher, with shooting and good PG play around him. thats why I didn't want him. because we don't have this. but I think **** on him now is not fair. we don't play to his strenghts and he gets 10 mintes. how on earth could he possibly look good then?

[3toheadmelo]

come on.. he is not ass. he showed some flashes already and should get more than 10 minutes. he missed a lot of time due to injury..

He’s pretty bad. Only flashes he’s shown is hitting 3’s and catching lobs. Nothing special there

he is in a pretty bad situation come on. you have to play him as a rim runner/slasher, with shooting and good PG play around him. thats why I didn't want him. because we don't have this. but I think **** on him now is not fair. we don't play to his strenghts and he gets 10 mintes. how on earth could he possibly look good then?

Even in the preseason he got tons of minutes and he sucked. He’s just not that good.

[Reign23]

He’s pretty bad. Only flashes he’s shown is hitting 3’s and catching lobs. Nothing special there

he is in a pretty bad situation come on. you have to play him as a rim runner/slasher, with shooting and good PG play around him. thats why I didn't want him. because we don't have this. but I think **** on him now is not fair. we don't play to his strenghts and he gets 10 mintes. how on earth could he possibly look good then?

Even in the preseason he got tons of minutes and he sucked. He’s just not that good.

ok, then we should give up on him

[3toheadmelo]

he is in a pretty bad situation come on. you have to play him as a rim runner/slasher, with shooting and good PG play around him. thats why I didn't want him. because we don't have this. but I think **** on him now is not fair. we don't play to his strenghts and he gets 10 mintes. how on earth could he possibly look good then?

Even in the preseason he got tons of minutes and he sucked. He’s just not that good.

ok, then we should give up on him

I’m open to trading him for a upgrade at the guard positions. But I’m cool with developing him off the bench in a Montrezl Harrell role. He has a long way to go though.