PG: Houston Had a Problem, Brunson Aborts Launch

[2010]

Not star. I see good starter potential and think he's really close.

Grimes makes way better reads then Scam. Sees the game much better. His biggest issue (given his abilities) is aggressiveness in that he isn't. Passes up good shots and drives.

When I referenced Scam, I meant particularly the complaining about their role. Not as much them having similar game.

My issue with Cam was more him overestimating his abilities AND complaining about his role. I don't think Grimes is doing that.

Cam seems to know where he stands in LA and that's why it's "working" to the extent it is. He hits corner threes and plays defense. That's his NBA life.

Fair enough.

[Fat Kat]

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[Galvationknicks]

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[cgf]

Bondy is known as a pot stirrer so I wouldn't buy that Cavs injury sh*t he is spewing. But clearly Thibs has soured on Grimes for whatever reason this year. The slow start, then him going to the media about his role (this is probably the tipping point).

We can't just be giving Grimes away for nothing. He is one of our trust worthy shooters. But if we add a guard that can create he is going to take Grimes minutes anyway so Grimes shouldn't have zero value around the league. Just like IQ. IQ was playing less minutes this year but was still valued around the league. FO's know what Grimes can bring.

Luckily there are still people in the organization that really like Grimes. So I'm optimistic that they won't just get rid of him because Thibs doesn't trust him anymore, but instead another team will need to value him as much as they do for us to include Grimes instead of some of our draft capital.

[cgf]

there is something weird about trading away almost every single young player you drafted. that's either a failure of scouting or a failure of coaching/the front office that nobody is deemed important enough to keep.

I dunno. Soccer is different because you don't trade players, you buy them out their contracts and teams can then use those transfer fees to buy other players out of their contracts to replace the player sold, but a lot of the biggest teams spend on top tier youth academies that develop some great players, that those top teams just use to help fund their bigger targets.

If you're using your homegrown talent shrewdly, then I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong about not keeping any homegrown players. Especially if you continue producing talents and just keep moving them for ones that better fit. Sometimes your scouts and staff are just better at identifying & developing a certain kind of player, so it just makes the most sense to focus on developing those players and trading from your surplus.

[Buttah304]

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Randle legitimately looks more comfortable shooting 3s when he’s either off balance or stepping back to reshuffle his feet. He’s been very bad in C&S scenarios (31%) and he’s got to stop with the pull up 3s (26%).

He’s also shooting better from deep when he takes 3-6 dribbles than 1-2. It’s almost as if anything remotely appearing standstill/in rhythm is a poor FGA for him. He’s become a good “bad” 3PT shot maker and a poor (wide open from 4-6 feet) long range shooter.

Coaching staff I’m sure has all of this info - would be nice to help him be more effective but Thibs is in love with Julius shooting any and all kinds of 3s.

[cgf]

probably the best pass i ever seen by julius

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What's most impressive isn't that Julius saw it...Randle has very good vision and sees some very clever passes...it's that he had the touch to just feather it over to OG, not whip it with all his strength right in OG's face. Love Ju but if he learned that not every pass needs to be 100mph, he'd shave a turnover or two a game, while getting an assist or two more

[TheGreenArrow]

grimes for bruce brown seems inevitable

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yeah it’s the only swap that make sense cause we really don’t need another 6’4ish guard/forward added to this group

i think trading grimes for him is a dumb move imo. grimes is our best young asset. we should be using him in a trade to get an all star caliber type player if we were to move him. get dejounte murray already lol

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No Murray Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cgf]

Yea, I dont really buy the playoff thing. But Grimes has def fallen out of Thibs circle of trust and is behind Donte and Hart. He is even behind Deuce according to Katz.

grimes is basically treated like obi now.

Gobi

Eh, Grimes only got 2 minutes and some seconds less than DDV yesterday, this isn't Obi getting less than half the time of the guy starting ahead of him. Plus it's not like Grimes actually complained about his role. He was being interviewed and was honest about the pressure he felt when the ball came to him because he wasn't touching it much. No passive aggressive jibes.

Grimes just isn't playing assertively enough, though he's been getting better since the move to the bench, there are still possessions in every game where Grimes passes on a good look before we end up getting a shot clock violation or someone else is forced to take a worse shot.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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he seems to like that shot. i'd like to see more of it when it makes sense. he's doing his best with the bully ball though. but yeah, maybe a nice mix up that should have more of a split.

the corner three plays should be our primary release valve. we have guys who can hit it and a coach who actually knows how to attack it.

[cgf]

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Randle legitimately looks more comfortable shooting 3s when he’s either off balance or stepping back to reshuffle his feet. He’s been very bad in C&S scenarios (31%) and he’s got to stop with the pull up 3s (26%).

He’s also shooting better from deep when he takes 3-6 dribbles than 1-2. It’s almost as if anything remotely appearing standstill/in rhythm is a poor FGA for him. He’s become a good “bad” 3PT shot maker and a poor (wide open from 4-6 feet) long range shooter.

Coaching staff I’m sure has all of this info - would be nice to help him be more effective but Thibs is in love with Julius shooting any and all kinds of 3s.

FWIW Julius shooting 3s does help our spacing a lot. Obviously he's at his most effective when he's getting downhill and forcing double-teams, but Randle's play this season is leaving the paint more packed which caused everyone's %s to drop in that 3-10ft range, because Ju's no longer pulling the Bam's & Mobley's out to the perimeter the way he was last year.

Julius is just so much more efficient attacking the hoop and Jalen's shooting so well, that we shouldn't undo the change to Randle's shot-profile this season...just saying that I get why a coach might care more about Julius taking enough 3s to pull his man out of the paint, than what percentage he's shooting them at.

[2010]

yeah it’s the only swap that make sense cause we really don’t need another 6’4ish guard/forward added to this group

i think trading grimes for him is a dumb move imo. grimes is our best young asset. we should be using him in a trade to get an all star caliber type player if we were to move him. get dejounte murray already lol

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No Murray Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I trust Scotto. He’s been consistent in his reporting. But this doesn’t necessarily “No Murray Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

It could simply be a negotiating tactic to get Atlanta to lower the asking price and accept protected picks in place of an unprotected.

[stuporman]

Yea, I dont really buy the playoff thing. But Grimes has def fallen out of Thibs circle of trust and is behind Donte and Hart. He is even behind Deuce according to Katz.

grimes is basically treated like obi now.

Gobi

Gobi deserted....

[Capn'O]

grimes is basically treated like obi now.

Gobi

Eh, Grimes only got 2 minutes and some seconds less than DDV yesterday, this isn't Obi getting less than half the time of the guy starting ahead of him. Plus it's not like Grimes actually complained about his role. He was being interviewed and was honest about the pressure he felt when the ball came to him because he wasn't touching it much. No passive aggressive jibes.

Grimes just isn't playing assertively enough, though he's been getting better since the move to the bench, there are still possessions in every game where Grimes passes on a good look before we end up getting a shot clock violation or someone else is forced to take a worse shot.

I got the feeling from his comments that he was advocating for more ball movement in the offense generally. Lord knows that's what his play says and it almost feels like some of his passes are him trying to overcompensate to create the playstyle he feels most comfortable in. He'd be better off in a faster paced, motion offense and we're seeing him have an uptick in efficiency since the trade, where we've played faster and with less stagnation. 63.5% TS in January vs low 50s prior.

...

This is what I'm getting at. Grimes' concerns are actually grounded in the reality of his play.

[sol537]

“We need a back up PG”

“What’s Alec Burks up to these days?” -Thibs

[prophet_of_rage]

No young player can really get in a rythm and develop in 10-15mpg. Thibs has always over relied on the vets. IQ may have never even gotten to take a bigger role if we didn't get rid of Elf and Burks. He probably still should have played more then the 20-25mpg he was getting.

Thibs does do well maximizing wins and getting short term results, but it does come at a cost of development and maybe long term success or reaching a ceiling.

Plenty of guys started out at 10-15 minutes and developed just fine. IQ became the player he is in spite of not getting 36 minutes a game. It's not really either or. RJ got all the minutes he could handle and he still plays like a guy shooting with his off hand.

Because he is. He's right handed.

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[cgf]

Gobi

Eh, Grimes only got 2 minutes and some seconds less than DDV yesterday, this isn't Obi getting less than half the time of the guy starting ahead of him. Plus it's not like Grimes actually complained about his role. He was being interviewed and was honest about the pressure he felt when the ball came to him because he wasn't touching it much. No passive aggressive jibes.

Grimes just isn't playing assertively enough, though he's been getting better since the move to the bench, there are still possessions in every game where Grimes passes on a good look before we end up getting a shot clock violation or someone else is forced to take a worse shot.

I got the feeling from his comments that he was advocating for more ball movement in the offense generally. Lord knows that's what his play says and it almost feels like some of his passes are him trying to overcompensate to create the playstyle he feels most comfortable in. He'd be better off in a faster paced, motion offense and we're seeing him have an uptick in efficiency since the trade, where we've played faster and with less stagnation. 63.5% TS in January vs low 50s prior.

...

This is what I'm getting at. Grimes' concerns are actually grounded in the reality of his play.

That's a fair interpretation, I guess I just don't feel like that constitutes complaining. That's the kind of candor I enjoy from athletes, that we typically complain about not getting when athletes just speak in cliches. But maybe that's just cause the 'ball weighing 100lbs' line hit me hard and made me feel like the dude was just trying to bare his soul, not politicking for a better role or criticizing.

[Jalen Bluntson]

i think trading grimes for him is a dumb move imo. grimes is our best young asset. we should be using him in a trade to get an all star caliber type player if we were to move him. get dejounte murray already lol

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No Murray Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I trust Scotto. He’s been consistent in his reporting. But this doesn’t necessarily “No Murray Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

It could simply be a negotiating tactic to get Atlanta to lower the asking price and accept protected picks in place of an unprotected.

They don't have to push there chips all in on Murray. They have two FRPs this year that need to be used for something other than this mystery trade for a player who isn't on the market yet. They have an expiring contract that need to use for something other than this mystery trade for a player who isn't on the market yet. They have to put the horse before the cart!!

We had SEVEN drafted players in the rotation and playing well for two years. Now they have two left(Mitch is out for the year) in Deuce and Grimes and they traded away the only two producers in that group for a 3&D role player. An elite one but still, a 3&D role player. They have a 20mil rebounder who is a drain on the offense getting all the minutes he wants. Deuce can't be traded and even if he could, him and Grimes make 5 mil combined. Not really a good way to do things but, Thibs wants it this way. He is the problem.

Fire Thibs and trade Randle/Hart/picks for the mystery trade. That's the big step that needs to happen but, most likely won't! In the meantime they have enough assets to fix the team and make a run THIS year without even needing a star trade or hurting those chances. Shyt or get off the pot!

[knicksstuff]

Bondy is so miserable and such a pot stirrer...I've watched him during pre game shoot around mope around and try to make any connections with any of the Knicks FO or coaches on the court meanwhile you have Fred Katz and Jake Fischer chatting everyone up. Just based off of those interactions I know he has very little sources within the building and what's going on

[stuporman]

If I'm going to watch draft vids I'm probably only going to focus on 3rd and 4th year players because that's usually who the Knicks take with this coach...it's rarely ever the younger development guys, they want someone who has a grown a few seasons and is closer in being ready to step in right away.

I know this isn't as sexy as the 'omg the upside' guys but it also is the types of players like Bane who have a chance of popping sooner than later. I doubt they use both 1sts this year and suspect one or both will be moved in a deal before the deadline or at the draft for a vet or pushed back to the future like they have been known to do.

That's what this FO's draft strategy should be called...back to the future.